How Accurate is the 3T MRI at detecting cancer

tonycue said:

mpMRI vs MRSI scans

Hi Swingshiftworker, That PSA  rise must have been a major worry? ....Glad it worked out for you.

I have heard of the MRSI scanners that use spectroscopy to detect chemicals found in cancer, but I must admit to being a bit confused, are you saying that the mpMRI cannoct detect cancer? Ever since asking this question on several forums a few days back I have now been educated a bit more, and directed to various web sites and I am now under the impression that the mpMRI with a good radiologist has a pretty good sensitivity in detecting tumors...using the PI-RADS score they could even have a pretty good guess at staging said growths.....My doc says that the "something" on my scan needs investigating and only a biopsy will tell....I was wondering if he was just being "Coy" and maybe not trying to worry me unduly at this stage....I'm of course hoping that they genuinely don't know and that this is going to turn out to be something less nasty....Any further info you have from your experience would be greatly appreciated

   Thanks for taking the time to reply 

     regards    Tony

 

Tony,

It's great that you are well-read, that you understand a great deal about PCa, that you are learning the options.

But no amount of speculating, no amount of worry or imagining, will give you definitive answers. Only the biopsy will do that.

Only when the specifics of the biopsy are back can informed, clinically appropriate treatment responses be tailored to your resuolts.

max

Tony,

I was into cycling pretty heavy.  I was out on the road up to three hours per day.  Many times I was riding with the student cycling team members from the Pennsylvania State University Cycling Team.  We were even doing some high speed drafting practice.  I'm 6ft 2in tall, 200 lbs.  When I was in the front of the draft , I guess they liked it because I made a bigger "hole " in the air.  I could really fly.

I was 67 when diagnosed.  My doctor gave me the option of surgery or radiation treatments.  I was ready to do the surgery from the first day I found out I was dealing with this cancer. I wanted the cancer removed.   However my doctor wouldn't do it, until I talked to Radiation Oncology and learned about the radioactive seeds and that type of treatment.  After that appointment I thought I wanted to have the radiation instead of the surgery.  However for some reason, I changed my mind.  Dr. Miller (my urologist / surgeon) had told me that because of my physical condition and my "Youth" (at which I laughed until I cried) I was a good candidate for the Robotic Assisted Surgery.  Turned out, I was very glad I did the surgery.  When they got inside of me, they realized that I had a birth defect.  My Prostate had adhered to my bladder.  So, they wouldn't have been able to get the seeds into the postions they needed to be.  So, the radioactive treatments woudln't have worked.  But it turned out I had to have The Chemo (Lupron) to weaken any remaining cancer cells that might have been left behind and then I had the 8 weeks of Radiation, after being on the Lupron for two months prior. My surgery took 5 1/2 hours to complete.  It was to take 2 1/2 hours.  First they had trouble getting the robot through the mesh from a double abdominal hernia repair.  Then, when they got in there, they found the birth defect. They had to make an incision in my bladder to get the prostate removed.   Then, when they went to remove the lymph nodes. My leg muscles were so developed from the cycling that they couldn't find the lymph nodes in my right groin. Finally They got the robot moved to the lymph nodes.  Then Dr. Miller had the robot do a mirror image and it got to the lymph nodes on the left side.  Thank you Da Vinci.  He explained all this to me around 10:30 the night of the surgery.  I was sitting up in bed watching a Soccer Game (Your football).  I went home the next afternoon and was on a tread mill two days later.

I had some arthritis in my hips.  The one side is worse, because I was hit by a truck while riding bike.  I was left laying along the road.  It was a hit and run.  That has never been solved.  So, the Lupron caused leg muscle and bone and joint pain on top of the arthritis.  Then after I was off the Lupron my legs started to feel better.  Then, They did a bone density scan, and found that I had gained bone density everywhere in my body, except in my Femurs.  I had lost density in those bones.  That was the area where the radiation had hit.  So, they put me on Prolia for Bone Density to try and correct the problems the other treatments created.  The side effects for the Prolia are as bad or even worse than the Lupron.  Bone and joint aches and muscle weakness.  Please be aware of all the side effects from these drugs and treatments.  Make sure and check all that out on-line.  Look at web sites from actual medical facilities.  My doctors warned me about most of the side effects, but not into the detail you will find when doing your own research.

I was a Music Teacher and taught Instrumental Music in the public schools, plus an elementary & middle school band director.  I also worked with the High School Marching Band as Drum Line Instructor.  So, yes I know who "Doctor Fellgood" is.  We always have the Rhythm and Blues station on through our cable music system, and in the cars through the Sirius XM.  I have the surround sound fired up right now on Blues Station right now.  I hadn't heard about the situation with Johnson.  But yes, It does give a person hope.  However my doctors are very careful to never use the word cure.  They talk of remission.  They always keep it real and make sure I understand that the cancer could and probably will come back at some later time.  We already have plans talked through if that occurs.  As long as my PSA stays at "0", they tell me I'm doing well.  In fact, my doctors say they are very surprise that I have done this well, because of where I was at the beginning of this battle, three years ago.  Like I say over and over It's one hell of a fight.

Dont' mess around with this beast.  Hang in there and fight like hell.  Know that you are in my thoughts and prayers. 

Peace and God Bless

Will

Tony,

 I did as you suggested.  Located "Milk & Alcohol" on You Yube.  Turned it up full blast.  I like it.  Several live performances in the set.  Which one is Johnson?  The electric 6 string or the bass player.  These were videos from '79, so I assume prior to his diagnosis. 

To many Ab Crunches and heavy lifting.  That's what they told me. My Hernias popped out while I was carrying a ladder down a flight of steps from the back sun deck on the house. Then like an idiot, I went for a two hour bike ride and then came home and mowed the lawn.  The rest of that night I was at the hospital.   Be advised that if you have the hernia fixed, and they use a mesh over the entire front of your abdomen, as they did with me, that will cause some difficulties if you eventually would need surgery.  I have 60 titanium staples holding mine in place.  It can be done, but it just slows down the process. Dr Miller had to rebuild all that mesh after he was done doing the surgery.   And, yes every ache, pain and lump can put a person in a panic.  Even after three years I get those panic things at times. 

My doctor told me I wasn't to get back on a bike for 8 weeks, post surgery.  At 6 weeks I couldn't take it any more and bugged the hell out of him and ask him If I could try my trainer/spinner bike.  He said yes, and told me I'd know if I was over doing it.  It went fine.  I started building up time on the spinner bike to 100 - 120 minutes per day.  I'm still doing at least 80 minutes per day and up to 100 min per day, riding at a tempo of 100 - 120 beats per minute (with CD's going on a player) when I feel up to it.  Your physical condition is very important in the results from you treatments.  Other places on the site, you will see others who talk about physical condition. There are other cyclists and runners, One of us is even a body builder and is doing competitions.  So make sure and get yourself in the best condition you can and then get right back at it as soon as you feel up to it. 

Peace and God Bless

Will

tonycue said:

mpMRI vs MRSI scans

Hi Swingshiftworker, That PSA  rise must have been a major worry? ....Glad it worked out for you.

I have heard of the MRSI scanners that use spectroscopy to detect chemicals found in cancer, but I must admit to being a bit confused, are you saying that the mpMRI cannoct detect cancer? Ever since asking this question on several forums a few days back I have now been educated a bit more, and directed to various web sites and I am now under the impression that the mpMRI with a good radiologist has a pretty good sensitivity in detecting tumors...using the PI-RADS score they could even have a pretty good guess at staging said growths.....My doc says that the "something" on my scan needs investigating and only a biopsy will tell....I was wondering if he was just being "Coy" and maybe not trying to worry me unduly at this stage....I'm of course hoping that they genuinely don't know and that this is going to turn out to be something less nasty....Any further info you have from your experience would be greatly appreciated

   Thanks for taking the time to reply 

     regards    Tony

 

A mpMRI can highlight areas where a cancer mass "may" be present in the prostate and is a good diagnostic tool for determining what areas of the prostate should be biopsied but it cannot detect smaller, less obvious cancer sites.  It is almost routine to do a standard mpMRI scan for early PCa diagnosis.

On the other hand, a MRSI scan can pinpoint the exact location of any cancer within or near the prostate using a gadolinium dye, which is a very precise marker for cancer, as a contrast medium.  Between the 2, only an MRSI will show EXACTLY where (if any) cancer is located.

The MRSI scan is a VERY expensive procedure and normally is not used unless cancer is already known to have been present but there remains some doubt (as in my case) about its current existance and/or location.  It would probably not be approved by an insurance carrier for preliminary diagnostic  purposes.

Tony,

They just played Milk & Alcohol on the Blues station on our TV / Music Cable.  I got the link you sent .  Johnson is not the guy I saw on the other videos.

I should also mention to you, that as you move along in you treatments and fight, be aware, than if you have had or are prone to Melanoma Skin Cancer, make sure you go often for check ups.  It' s just another problem that can arise, as your immune system is fighting.  I had Melanoma surgery about 13 - 14 years back, with lymph nodes removed.  I hadn't had problems for 11 years until I  was in the middle of all my radiation etc.  Then, 1 year into this PCA situation, My Chemo Oncologist, suggested I change Dermatologists.  I guess she saw something she was worried about.  She suggested a doctor.  Made appointment and turned out that the doctor was a former female student of mine.  I didn't realize it, because I didnt' know her married name. She walked in the first time and said "Hey Mr, D (that's what the kids called me), remember me?"  I about fell off the exam table.  My GP is also a former student of mine as are 3 others who have been helping me fight this battle.  So,  Sara ( Dr. Ferguson) has removed 11 Melanomas in 1 1/2 years, all have had to have follow ups surgery done.    My last three check ups have been clean with no surgery needed.  The side effects, etc from my treatments have "worn off" enough, so they say, that the Melanoma has gone back into remission.  However now, I go to a distant hospital to a Skin Oncologist for a checkup once a year.  I still go to my normal Dermatologist (Sara) every 3 - 4 months for a check up.  The doctor I see in Hershey, PA, USA is into heavy research into the relationship between Melanoma and other cancers. If I need more further surgery, it is done by another surgeon who comes to town once a week.  So, As Sara wanted, I have " three pairs of eyes" checking me over on a regular basis.  So, Please be aware that this problem could come about.  I'm a blue eyed, blond of German descent.  My dad had red hair. I was raised on a farm, out in the fields in the summer in as few clothes as were legal, and later in life spent lots of time at the beach with my wife.   All of these recent Melanomas have been caught in the "pre stage" of very early Stage 1.  So, for heavens sake, get checked by a good dermatologist on a regular basis.  It's just another pain in the butt, but please don't let anything like that slip in as you go along this fight.

Peace and God Bless

Will

tonycue said:

Melanoma why worry??

Hi Will, Now you're aware of Dr Feelgood, you'll probably keep hearing them "ad nauseum" from now on ....Synchronicity.....

How wonderful that your former pupils are helping you out in regards to your health problems.....Just as well you were nice to them, or you could find yourself getting biopsied on a weekly basis 

Thanks for the "Heads Up" but I don't think melanoma should be a problem for me, I'm of Italian descent, so have very dark olive skin....never had to worry about the sun in the past.....But never say never I suppose....Don't need to be baiting the "Cancer Gods"

Hope your Melanoma stays in remission (good word that)

   Best wishes     Tony

I am hearing a pop hit's refrain in my head. I have no idea why....it is from Adele; the line goes and it's round and around and around and around we go.....

This thread has become unexpectedly interesting for music people; I am one of  them, but don't play anything (except CDs).

There's a connection to prostate cancer though.for me because when I went under the CyberKnife, I could listen to whatever.

To All,

I feel we must have other things on our minds than the fight we're all in.  So, Let the Music Play, let the Wine (or whatever) Flow, Get out there a drive your pants off in your favorite sports or muscle car, enjoy nature, and live every day like it's your last.

Old Salt,  When I had my Radiation Treatments, I could control the music in the room, as well.  Here in Central PA, they usually had Country Music going.  Many times I'd let it there, but sometimes change to Jazz or Blues, depending on my state of mind that day.  It helped, I think.  Especially when the Therapists (three or four women and one guy) would come dancing in the door when the treatment for the day was over.  I kept it "light" and that made them happy as well.  The guy who followed me every day, was having treatment for a very serious reoccuring cancer (head and neck) and that would set the tone for him as the days went by, and we got to be pretty good "buds".  He'd sit with my wife during my treatment and then we'd pass each day in the hall and give each other a "High Five", as we passed by each other.

Love & Peace and God Bless to all

Will