New to forum - wife of prostate cancer patient

ob66 said:

Wife of CA victim

     I think a lot of people would read this and wished they had the type of support you afford your husband. i have it, and feel like one of the most gifted people in the world. In our spousal relationship it is somewhat the reverse----I tend to be the "glass is half full" person, and my wife is more the "glass is half empty". But to muddy the water a bit, she is also the one who after "our" CA diagnosis, waited a short period of time and then said: "OK, it is time to end our "pity party" and get on with fighting this thing" .

     What I am getting to is that as I read on and on, I found that you were patronizing him a bit more than you should. Your circumstance and his is serious, but to a certain extent he needs a swift kick in the butt to get on with attacking the CA monster. He does not seem to be helping himself with any kind of positivism, and you are trying to "preserve" the time he has left. Ouch. That would be scary to me.

     What you describe is not heartening in any stretch of the imagination. But instead of becoming strangers in the same house, how about researching, studying, connecting (as you are here) to gain as much help, support and info as possible. I really do not choose to pick on you, for you seem to have so much love and care for your husband. But, as I read on and on, it seemed like you were overly sensitive to his "depressive" response to his condition, and it was parting the two of you when you should be working together with boundless honesty. In short, quit kissing his rear end and give him a swift kick in the backside to do as much about his problem as can possibly be done. 

     I hope you and he do not take this as overly harsh, as it is not meant to be at all. Positive vibes are needed, and he does not seem to have them. I personally have been through a daVinci proatatectomy, AUS surgery, Radiation therapy, lupron treatement for two years (yes, plenty of hot flashes), vitamin D therapy, Asian/Meditterranean diet, five days a week exercise of 45 minutes. All that started with a post surgery Gleason 8, Stage 3B, so I am no stranger to fear, of the evil of cancer. Give the b*stard the best fight you two can together.

Misery arises because we don´t allow change to happen. We cling, we want things to be the same. If you love a man you want him tomorrow too, the same way as he was yours yesterday. That´s how misery arises. Nobody can be certain about the next moment - what to say about tomorrow?

A man of awareness knows that life is constantly changing. Life is change. There is only one thing permanent, and that is change. Except change, everything else changes. To accept this nature of life, to accept this changing existence with all its seasons and moods, this constant flow that never stops for a single moment, is to be blissful. Then nobody can disturb your bliss. It is your hankering for permanency that creates troubles for you. If you want to live in a life with no change - you are asking the impossible.

A person of awareness becomes courageous enough to accept the changing phenomena. In that very acceptance is bliss. Then all is good. Then you are never frustrated.

Excerpt from Osho

 There is so much in your post that needs attention that it would take a book to offer suggestions.  The two of you are in a situation that neither of you has any preparation, experience or knowledge of how to handle, so, of course, there are going to be unsolvable problems and misery.  It is like living in the dark and trying to guess where to go.  First, love is about accepting everything and person non judgmentally. You both are not accepting what is, but looking at what you want it to be.  Your husband is in a severe state of deep depression and does not have any skills on how to deal with it, and there is no ten minute cure.  Many of his problems are not from cancer, but from depression.  You are wishing he could be another way.  Well, there is not great likelihood that he will be another way without a great deal of help and inner work on his part.  The odds of that happening are very slim.

“I do love him so much so it hurts when he treats me that way. “   Love is unconditional.  If what he does hurts you, then that is YOUR problem, not his.  He has the right to be any way he chooses, you have the right to accept him as he is and support him as he chooses to be supported.  Neither of you have a clue how to deal with this problem because you have not done past work to prepare yourselves for this moment.  Of course, it has to be difficult for you both because you are not equipped to handle it in any way.

  I suggest you get some outside help.  You two do not have the tools to do this by yourselves. 

Love, Swami Rakendra.

Hi Sel and welcome to the forum.

I truly believe that you took a great first step in coming here to discuss your situation.  You will find a wealth of knowledge and support here, from indivduals who have direct and personal experience with PCa, or a loved one who has PCa.  These folks KNOW your overall situation, and they have talked the talk and walked the walk, and they are all survivors.

As you can see, you have already received a number of responses.  And, there are already some great gems of knowledge and advice contained in them, for both you and your husband.  For example:

Life is change.  There is no going backward to what was. Your husband did not choose to have PCa, but that is his, and your, current reality.  Your only options are (1) to remain stationary, in which case, life continues to move forward around and without you, or (2) to move forward together, exercising as much contol over your own destinies that is possible in your situation.

Knowledge is power.  There is an unbelievable amount of information that exists and is readily available for you to assimilate about PCa.  Channel your energies to dive into research with vigor and learn about it, and digest it.  Understand the manifestations of PCa and the available treatment options, as well as their potential side effects.  Learn about the direction PCa research and future potential treatment options.  Equally important, understand the experiences of survivors, and what they do on a daily basis to extract the maximum quality of life, while living with PCa.  If this could be a joint endeavor for the both of you, so much the better.

Challenge your physicians, when treatments are not going well.  There is a reason why physicians call their life work a 'practice'.  Get second opinions, whenever they seem warranted.  This, combined with the knowledge from your research, puts you in the drivers seat, when considering treatment options.

Get your husband involved in this forum.  Your husband is not alone, and what is happening to him is not unique.   I believe that your husband will better understand his PCa, his treatment options, and the effects of both on him in his daily life, as he interacts with members of this forum.  That will give him the opportunity to exercise more control over his daily life and interaction with others.  I am much better in dealing with my PCa since joining this forum, as I've been through daVinci prostatectomy, AUS surgery, Radiation therapy, Lupron treatment.  I found the experiences and advice shared in this forum to be extremely helpful, in fact downright critical, in assessing and deciding upon my treatment options.  Luperon did strange things to me and impacted how I interacted with other people; however, understanding this through research and education, has helped me to better control myself while I am on it.  

Jointly manage your relationship.  Relationships, like everything else, change over time.  If you need outside assistance, such as counseling, then both of you swallow your pride and reach out for it.  I know that my relationship with my wife changed, when I was diagnosed with PCa.  We work at managing that change every day, versus letting it manage us.  We have always used the following poem by Kahlil Gilbran as a foundational guide for our relationship, and it has become even more relevant for us, since my PCa diagnosis.  Perhaps, you will find it useful, as well.

“Let there be spaces in your togetherness, And let the winds of the heavens dance between you. Love one another but make not a bond of love: Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls. Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup. Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf. Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone, Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music. Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping. For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts. And stand together, yet not too near together: For the pillars of the temple stand apart, And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.”

I wish the both of you the best of success in living with and managing your husband's PCa, and I hope that both of you become active members of this forum, where you will find knowledge, support, and companionship.

Beau2 said:

Depression and Anger

Your recent experiences with anger and depression reminded me of my experiences; therefore, I offer a brief review of what I've been doing to address similar issues.

My daughter has suffered from bipolar and has had frequent bouts of depression and anger over the last 20+ years. When she is depressed her anger can come for trivial reasons and is usually aimed at someone she loves and feels none threatening (a parent). When she lives with me it is like I am walking on eggs .... always fearful of setting her off. Meds somewhat help her as do psychological therapy; however, to a great extent the depression and anger remains.

At first, I would try to set boundaries on how much abuse I would take from her (kick in the butt approach). Then I read a book where a bipolar patient expressed how much she appreciated her mother just listening to her complaints and angry rants when she felt depressed. Over the past ten years that's what I've done, if my daughter goes on a tear I listen, if she hangs up the phone I call her back and leave a message. It's not easy. I'd always been controlling and not one to let someone push me around ... that changed. Now I listen and try to empathize. If she's angry, I ignore it (her anger). If she complains or rants, I repeat her complaints so that she knows I am listening. If I think I have a solution I do not offer it until I see she has cooled down and will not reject it in anger. I let the doctors do the treatment ... I'm just there to help.

It seems that just having someone she can safely get angry at helps, and the anger vents and we can get on with other things.  Frequently, we will end up in quite a good state ... even laughing!

It's helped me too. Now I do not feel that I am defending myself against her anger. I feel I am helping her. 

Sometimes I think I may be enabling her anger .... but at least she knows she has someone who will listen and not judge. Unconditional love.

Good luck and best wishes.

Ps. Sometimes, I rely on a stiff Jameson's (ie. adult beverage) to get through a discussion with my daughter ... it mellows my mood and makes it easier for me to talk to her in a non threatening way.

My family suffers from Bipolar.  I suffered for many years in much the manner of your daughter.  Two of the many things that have helped me are Gerovital and Meditation.  I inject gerovital three times a week and it is the most effective pro-host antidepressant I have found as well as being a great benefit to the whole body.  Of course, the FDA has banned it in America despite more than fifty years of world wide use and hundreds of studies.  And it is non toxic to the body.  Meditation is of great benefit for all and those suffering from Pca could  benefit from it.  As all know by now, I am a disciple of Osho, who also was the master Meditator.  His website is Oshomeditationresort.  His ashram is located in Pune India, a place I have spent much time in and a place of heaven on earth.  A visit there would be of benefit to your daughter.  Bipolar does not get cured, but it can be handled.  At one time, I was exactly like your daughter, mired in anger, depression and negativity.  It does not have to be that way.  But the path out is not easy or quick.  However, it is easier than the suffering caused by Bi-polar.  My bi-polar was the gift that I was given to force the changes needed in my life.  And I am grateful.  love, swami rakendra

Sel

I am sorry for your situation and that of your husband. Prostate cancer is known to affect everybody in the family and we have read in this forum several posts from wives in despair. The story is always very similar to that of yours. Requests for help on how to handle the cancer and what can be done to understand the mood of their husbands. The situation is sour and one wants only to be good.

There is no doubt that in your cases the fact of being a cancer patient and the medication is causing depression and making you blind to the reality. You image things worse than what is occurring. All seems confusing and one enters into despair. For the much you try nothing seems to work and you see only negativity in the results.
You need a break and time to pounder on the facts. 

Most probably your husband is acting not at his own will. The hormonal therapy affects the mind of patients and one sees himself confronting situations that later are regretful. It happens to the majority of patients unnoticed but in some cases the status becomes nasty. I had such an experience at the beginning of my hormonal treatment when I notice that I was being aggressive when handling things as simple as paying an electrical bill. Queuing irritated me in shops and I constantly raised my voice when talking to people. My wife did point out these facts several times to no good effect. For me she was part of those confronting my ways in judging things. In other words I was the patient and the culprit without knowing it. It was in this very much forum that I awaken to the facts of what I had become. Arguing with other participants and survivors made me reflect about my errors. I now can control better those feelings and act on the reverse.

Lupron works at the pituitary. It mimics the luteinizing hormone (LHRH) that regulates the down “orders”(FSH) from our mind to producing androgens (testosterone). It causes the system to be flooded with “requests” confusing our natural ways, and with an end result that makes our body to stop producing testosterone because it “thinks” that there is enough of the “product” in circulation. Here are details for you to read;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotropin-releasing_hormone

At the brain the nerve system may be affected and such leads to several symptoms like blurred vision, dizziness, weakness, tired feeling, depression, sleep problems (insomnia) and memory problems.
The status of hypogonadism (low levels of testosterone in the body=castration) due to the lack of androgens leads to other symptoms such as the hot flashes, night sweats, joint and muscle pain, loss of muscle mass, impotence and loss of interest in sex. 

Surely the above is not a good status and one confronting the effects may not be in good mood.
Some of these symptoms in my case were mild but the best to counter the nasty ones it was by getting into physical fitness programs. A change in the way of our life style is also good. I used to get into afternoon naps and dinner earlier to lessen the times I visited the toilet at night. Changing diets also helped a lot and by confronting the bandit with knowledge changed my negativity in judging my situation. I become an avid student and researcher of all related to prostate cancer, its treatments and effects. This gave me the power and peace of mind.
Traveling gave me the possibility in “communicating” better with my wife. I gave up with my job to lower depression and now I am enjoying gardening and fruit tree growing in my house. You may try getting your husband to attend this forum or visit a local gathering of Pca survivors for exchanging views. You also would feel different after talking with other wives on the subject in the same boat.

Control of cancer and medications through diet is a must. I recall my wife’s first “present” after been diagnosed with PCa which was a book on foods good against cancer. You can get a copy of UCSF‘s publication on Nutrition & Prostate Cancer in this link;
http://cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_prostate.pdf

You have not shared much detail on the pervious tests and diagnoses that made his doctor to recommend hormonal treatment so that we cannot give you better opinions. However, if the treatment is affecting his health to the extent you comment then he should change drastically the protocol been recommended by his doctor. Hypogonadism can become worse than the cancer itself. It can cause heart problems, diabetes and deterioration of bone (osteoporosis). Dr. Myers, a famous oncologist specialist in advanced cases of prostate cancer, (probably the best PCa doctor in the world) recommends stopping HT at the first signs of nasty effects. You can listen to his video on the matter here;
http://s0.videopress.com/player.swf?v=1.03&guid=bvGx4Cny&isDynamicSeeking=true

You can listen to more videos from him in this list;
https://www.facebook.com/askdrmyers/notes

Please remember that you are not the problem. Neither is your husband. The bandit is the bad of your story. I hope that you find some clues through my experiences to help you in dealing with your facts.

Welcome to the board.

Best wishes and luck in your journeys.

Rakendra above suggests meditation and I would like to add in this post the great benefits of acupuncture treatment for depression. It really works.

VGama