chemotherapy anything you can tell me.

muffingranma
muffingranma Member Posts: 107
Hi I go Tuesday, to have the port put in, and first round of chemotherapy. I need your prayers. The type of chemo I will be taking is Paclitaxel . I am not sure of how much. I just know  I take it one time a week for three weeks then off a week then do it over and over like that. I am not sure how long I do this..I will be there six hours first day they will put the port in and watch me for a while. Then they give me the first dose of chemo, I know this keeps getting redder each day and more cancer comes out. It hurts a lot. They don't think my body can take it. I know I feel weak and sleepy all the time now. Can anyone tell me what to expect with chemo. I appreciate any help thanks. Prayers for everyone suffering with cancer. I hate looking down and see my chest turning a deeper red and see cancer coming out every few days. He took a picture of the cancer and sent me a picture so we can tell if the chemo is helping. I sent a copy of the picture to my sister and some friends so they could see what it looks like..They wanted a copy also. Thank you again for any help you can give me. My prayers are with you. I can't see very well either, so I write one thing for everyone but I read everything. Thank you again.

Comments

  • New Flower
    New Flower Member Posts: 4,294
    Good luck on Tuesday

    Good luck on Tuesday , I hope you will tolerate the port procedure well.   E veryone is different as far as Chemo side effects. I did feel very tired. I also had constipation and was taking a stool softener medication Colace. In Chemo clinic the nurse should give instructions. Please drink a lot of water and rest after Chemo session. I hope you already asked somebody to drive you on Tuesday. you need relative or friend to drive you to and from on your first infusion, much better if the person can stay with you a whole day.

    I really hope that Chemo will be effective and stop your cancer. Sending positive thoughts your way.

    New Flower

  • Rague
    Rague Member Posts: 3,653 Member
    I did 12 weekly Taxol

    I did 12 weekly Taxol (Paclitaxel) from early Nov '09 and late Jan '10.  My port had been put in the day before my first neoadjuvant 4 DD A/C.  No one  can tell you what your experiences will be - we are each unique.  We can only give you OUR experiences which may or not be what you experience.

    For ME - Taxol was much worse than A/C was (though it often the reverse for those who do both).  Other than the usual hair loss, loss of appetite, taste and sense of smell, A/C did not really slow me down at all - a bit tired on days 3 & 4, but a few short naps took care on those days.  With Taxol, I was basically  'one my back' the entire time, completely and utterly EXHAUSTED.  Never had any issues with nausea or pain.

    I started my journey along the IBC highway as a 'healthy', very active woman at 63 - only health issues were arthritis in upper back, ADD and SAD.

    For me the actual infusion of Taxol was easy and seemed to take no time at all - as soon as they started the IV Benadryl I'd go "nighty night" and wake up about 20 mins. before infusion was over.  My body temperature dropped and stayed low for quite a while after chemo was over - it's always been a bit low and still is but it was really bad during that time so I was given one of the glassed in cubicles with a bed instead of the curtain fronted cubicles with lounge chair I'd had during A/C.  The RN's would also bring in heated blankets for me and turn the thermostat up in my cubicle.  The Center I went to had all sorts of stuff to feed you - fruit, crackers, fruit juice, tea, soup, etc.

    Again - every one is different - my choice was to take myself to all my chemos as there was n9 way I wanted Hubby or Son sitting there watching poison be put into my body,   They both had gotten permission from the companies they worked for which disallowed cell phones durin work hours to have there phones on on days I did Chemo just in case.

     

  • kmenurse
    kmenurse Member Posts: 217
    Rague said:

    I did 12 weekly Taxol

    I did 12 weekly Taxol (Paclitaxel) from early Nov '09 and late Jan '10.  My port had been put in the day before my first neoadjuvant 4 DD A/C.  No one  can tell you what your experiences will be - we are each unique.  We can only give you OUR experiences which may or not be what you experience.

    For ME - Taxol was much worse than A/C was (though it often the reverse for those who do both).  Other than the usual hair loss, loss of appetite, taste and sense of smell, A/C did not really slow me down at all - a bit tired on days 3 & 4, but a few short naps took care on those days.  With Taxol, I was basically  'one my back' the entire time, completely and utterly EXHAUSTED.  Never had any issues with nausea or pain.

    I started my journey along the IBC highway as a 'healthy', very active woman at 63 - only health issues were arthritis in upper back, ADD and SAD.

    For me the actual infusion of Taxol was easy and seemed to take no time at all - as soon as they started the IV Benadryl I'd go "nighty night" and wake up about 20 mins. before infusion was over.  My body temperature dropped and stayed low for quite a while after chemo was over - it's always been a bit low and still is but it was really bad during that time so I was given one of the glassed in cubicles with a bed instead of the curtain fronted cubicles with lounge chair I'd had during A/C.  The RN's would also bring in heated blankets for me and turn the thermostat up in my cubicle.  The Center I went to had all sorts of stuff to feed you - fruit, crackers, fruit juice, tea, soup, etc.

    Again - every one is different - my choice was to take myself to all my chemos as there was n9 way I wanted Hubby or Son sitting there watching poison be put into my body,   They both had gotten permission from the companies they worked for which disallowed cell phones durin work hours to have there phones on on days I did Chemo just in case.

     

    My prayers and thoughts are

    My prayers and thoughts are with you. Take it one day at a time don't look to far ahead... that would overwelm me.  Staying strong and positive really helped me alot.  Don't hesitate to ask for a shoulder... we all need one from time to time. 

  • muffingranma
    muffingranma Member Posts: 107

    Good luck on Tuesday

    Good luck on Tuesday , I hope you will tolerate the port procedure well.   E veryone is different as far as Chemo side effects. I did feel very tired. I also had constipation and was taking a stool softener medication Colace. In Chemo clinic the nurse should give instructions. Please drink a lot of water and rest after Chemo session. I hope you already asked somebody to drive you on Tuesday. you need relative or friend to drive you to and from on your first infusion, much better if the person can stay with you a whole day.

    I really hope that Chemo will be effective and stop your cancer. Sending positive thoughts your way.

    New Flower

    Thank you

    Thank you very much, for the advice. I have a lot of pain and have to use the shuttle to come home. I will have my home health aid with me. I am on oxygen and my chest in the cancer area is swollen. I can see it change and become worse every day. I hope this chemo goes okay, they said this was my last chance to prolong  the cancer for a while. They say Angiosarcoma  takes  your life because there is no treatment that works against it, and because it is rare and not enough is known about it.  I have had the four surgery's and a mastectomy and still comes back. Thank you again so much for your help. May God Bless you...

  • muffingranma
    muffingranma Member Posts: 107
    Rague said:

    I did 12 weekly Taxol

    I did 12 weekly Taxol (Paclitaxel) from early Nov '09 and late Jan '10.  My port had been put in the day before my first neoadjuvant 4 DD A/C.  No one  can tell you what your experiences will be - we are each unique.  We can only give you OUR experiences which may or not be what you experience.

    For ME - Taxol was much worse than A/C was (though it often the reverse for those who do both).  Other than the usual hair loss, loss of appetite, taste and sense of smell, A/C did not really slow me down at all - a bit tired on days 3 & 4, but a few short naps took care on those days.  With Taxol, I was basically  'one my back' the entire time, completely and utterly EXHAUSTED.  Never had any issues with nausea or pain.

    I started my journey along the IBC highway as a 'healthy', very active woman at 63 - only health issues were arthritis in upper back, ADD and SAD.

    For me the actual infusion of Taxol was easy and seemed to take no time at all - as soon as they started the IV Benadryl I'd go "nighty night" and wake up about 20 mins. before infusion was over.  My body temperature dropped and stayed low for quite a while after chemo was over - it's always been a bit low and still is but it was really bad during that time so I was given one of the glassed in cubicles with a bed instead of the curtain fronted cubicles with lounge chair I'd had during A/C.  The RN's would also bring in heated blankets for me and turn the thermostat up in my cubicle.  The Center I went to had all sorts of stuff to feed you - fruit, crackers, fruit juice, tea, soup, etc.

    Again - every one is different - my choice was to take myself to all my chemos as there was n9 way I wanted Hubby or Son sitting there watching poison be put into my body,   They both had gotten permission from the companies they worked for which disallowed cell phones durin work hours to have there phones on on days I did Chemo just in case.

     

    Thank you

     I am on oxygen and my chest in the cancer area is swollen. I can see it change  every day. I hope this chemo works, they said this was my last chance to prolong  the cancer for a while. They say Angiosarcoma  takes  your life because there is no treatment that works against it, and because it is rare and not enough is known about it.  I have had the four surgery's and a mastectomy and still comes back. Thank you again so much for your help. May God Bless you

  • muffingranma
    muffingranma Member Posts: 107
    Rague said:

    I did 12 weekly Taxol

    I did 12 weekly Taxol (Paclitaxel) from early Nov '09 and late Jan '10.  My port had been put in the day before my first neoadjuvant 4 DD A/C.  No one  can tell you what your experiences will be - we are each unique.  We can only give you OUR experiences which may or not be what you experience.

    For ME - Taxol was much worse than A/C was (though it often the reverse for those who do both).  Other than the usual hair loss, loss of appetite, taste and sense of smell, A/C did not really slow me down at all - a bit tired on days 3 & 4, but a few short naps took care on those days.  With Taxol, I was basically  'one my back' the entire time, completely and utterly EXHAUSTED.  Never had any issues with nausea or pain.

    I started my journey along the IBC highway as a 'healthy', very active woman at 63 - only health issues were arthritis in upper back, ADD and SAD.

    For me the actual infusion of Taxol was easy and seemed to take no time at all - as soon as they started the IV Benadryl I'd go "nighty night" and wake up about 20 mins. before infusion was over.  My body temperature dropped and stayed low for quite a while after chemo was over - it's always been a bit low and still is but it was really bad during that time so I was given one of the glassed in cubicles with a bed instead of the curtain fronted cubicles with lounge chair I'd had during A/C.  The RN's would also bring in heated blankets for me and turn the thermostat up in my cubicle.  The Center I went to had all sorts of stuff to feed you - fruit, crackers, fruit juice, tea, soup, etc.

    Again - every one is different - my choice was to take myself to all my chemos as there was n9 way I wanted Hubby or Son sitting there watching poison be put into my body,   They both had gotten permission from the companies they worked for which disallowed cell phones durin work hours to have there phones on on days I did Chemo just in case.

     

    Thanks for the advice

    Thank you very much, for the advice. I am on oxygen and my chest in the cancer area is swollen. I can see it change and become worse every day. I hope this chemo goes okay, they said this was my last chance to prolong  the cancer for a while. They say Angiosarcoma  takes  your life because there is no treatment that works against it, and because it is rare and not enough is known about it.  I have had the four surgery's and a mastectomy and still comes back. Thank you again so much for your help. May God Bless you...

  • muffingranma
    muffingranma Member Posts: 107

    Good luck on Tuesday

    Good luck on Tuesday , I hope you will tolerate the port procedure well.   E veryone is different as far as Chemo side effects. I did feel very tired. I also had constipation and was taking a stool softener medication Colace. In Chemo clinic the nurse should give instructions. Please drink a lot of water and rest after Chemo session. I hope you already asked somebody to drive you on Tuesday. you need relative or friend to drive you to and from on your first infusion, much better if the person can stay with you a whole day.

    I really hope that Chemo will be effective and stop your cancer. Sending positive thoughts your way.

    New Flower

    Thank you

    I did go to my Tuesday morning around seven AM then came home at six thirty PM a long day. At first they put the port in and brought me back from the recovery room at noon. Then they gave me lunch afterwards they took me and started the chemo part of it, That was from one o'clock till six o'clock that evening, I felt fine until last night the cancer area hurts  very bad and the port area is swollen and hurts even up in my neck, so I am not sure about if that should be that way. He sent me a picture of the cancer so I could watch for changes, I sent copies to my sister and a friend and told them I would send a copy in two weeks they could help me see if there is any changes, because I see it every day and its hard for me to see a difference.. They wanted to see what Angiosarcoma looked like being a rare cancer. My doctors said this was my last hope the chemo. It is spreading fast and nothing is slowing it down. I really want to be feeling okay around Christmas time. I just wonder if the pain and swelling in those areas are normal after putting in the port and first chemo treatment? Thank you so much it really helps for someone to talk to when your scared. Thank you again so much. I respect anything anyone has to say. Thank you again so much

  • muffingranma
    muffingranma Member Posts: 107
    Rague said:

    I did 12 weekly Taxol

    I did 12 weekly Taxol (Paclitaxel) from early Nov '09 and late Jan '10.  My port had been put in the day before my first neoadjuvant 4 DD A/C.  No one  can tell you what your experiences will be - we are each unique.  We can only give you OUR experiences which may or not be what you experience.

    For ME - Taxol was much worse than A/C was (though it often the reverse for those who do both).  Other than the usual hair loss, loss of appetite, taste and sense of smell, A/C did not really slow me down at all - a bit tired on days 3 & 4, but a few short naps took care on those days.  With Taxol, I was basically  'one my back' the entire time, completely and utterly EXHAUSTED.  Never had any issues with nausea or pain.

    I started my journey along the IBC highway as a 'healthy', very active woman at 63 - only health issues were arthritis in upper back, ADD and SAD.

    For me the actual infusion of Taxol was easy and seemed to take no time at all - as soon as they started the IV Benadryl I'd go "nighty night" and wake up about 20 mins. before infusion was over.  My body temperature dropped and stayed low for quite a while after chemo was over - it's always been a bit low and still is but it was really bad during that time so I was given one of the glassed in cubicles with a bed instead of the curtain fronted cubicles with lounge chair I'd had during A/C.  The RN's would also bring in heated blankets for me and turn the thermostat up in my cubicle.  The Center I went to had all sorts of stuff to feed you - fruit, crackers, fruit juice, tea, soup, etc.

    Again - every one is different - my choice was to take myself to all my chemos as there was n9 way I wanted Hubby or Son sitting there watching poison be put into my body,   They both had gotten permission from the companies they worked for which disallowed cell phones durin work hours to have there phones on on days I did Chemo just in case.

     

    My first port and chemo

    I am not sure of what some things are you mentioned A\C what is this. I  had cancer six years ago and had radiation treatments after my lumpectomy and done fine. In August 2012 I seen like a bruise on my breast that didn't heal. The doctor seen it and said it was Angiosarcoma cancer. I had five surgery's and a mastectomy, radiation and still comes back and spreading . My doctor said this was the only option I had left. He sent me a picture of the cancer, so we could both see if  there was any changes. I sent a copy to a friend and my sister so they could help me I see it every day so I can't judge it that well for changes. I will send them a picture in a couple of weeks. I went about seven AM Tuesday morning they put the port in about noon they brought me back to the room, fed me lunch and took me for the starting of the chemo. They started at one o'clock PM till six o'clock PM I have a lot more treatments to go. not sure how they will go. My problem is Wednesday night I started hurting really bad in the cancer area  on my left side and up toward my neck, and in the port area  on the right side it is swollen and sore up into my neck and to touch it. I can't see it because of the bandages.  I don't know if this is normal. He said if this didn't work there was no more they could do  I pray I can be doing okay for Christmas and my family . Thank you so much. May God bless you, and if you don't believe in God . I truly  respect any information you give me. Thank you again

  • muffingranma
    muffingranma Member Posts: 107
    Rague said:

    I did 12 weekly Taxol

    I did 12 weekly Taxol (Paclitaxel) from early Nov '09 and late Jan '10.  My port had been put in the day before my first neoadjuvant 4 DD A/C.  No one  can tell you what your experiences will be - we are each unique.  We can only give you OUR experiences which may or not be what you experience.

    For ME - Taxol was much worse than A/C was (though it often the reverse for those who do both).  Other than the usual hair loss, loss of appetite, taste and sense of smell, A/C did not really slow me down at all - a bit tired on days 3 & 4, but a few short naps took care on those days.  With Taxol, I was basically  'one my back' the entire time, completely and utterly EXHAUSTED.  Never had any issues with nausea or pain.

    I started my journey along the IBC highway as a 'healthy', very active woman at 63 - only health issues were arthritis in upper back, ADD and SAD.

    For me the actual infusion of Taxol was easy and seemed to take no time at all - as soon as they started the IV Benadryl I'd go "nighty night" and wake up about 20 mins. before infusion was over.  My body temperature dropped and stayed low for quite a while after chemo was over - it's always been a bit low and still is but it was really bad during that time so I was given one of the glassed in cubicles with a bed instead of the curtain fronted cubicles with lounge chair I'd had during A/C.  The RN's would also bring in heated blankets for me and turn the thermostat up in my cubicle.  The Center I went to had all sorts of stuff to feed you - fruit, crackers, fruit juice, tea, soup, etc.

    Again - every one is different - my choice was to take myself to all my chemos as there was n9 way I wanted Hubby or Son sitting there watching poison be put into my body,   They both had gotten permission from the companies they worked for which disallowed cell phones durin work hours to have there phones on on days I did Chemo just in case.

     

    chemo treatment

    I am not sure of what some things are you mentioned A\C what is this. I  had cancer six years ago and had radiation treatments after my lumpectomy and done fine. In August 2012 I seen like a bruise on my breast that didn't heal. The doctor seen it and said it was Angiosarcoma cancer. I had five surgery's and a mastectomy, radiation and still comes back and spreading . My doctor said this was the only option I had left. He sent me a picture of the cancer, so we could both see if  there was any changes. I sent a copy to a friend and my sister so they could help me I see it every day so I can't judge it that well for changes. I will send them a picture in a couple of weeks. I went about seven AM Tuesday morning they put the port in about noon they brought me back to the room, fed me lunch and took me for the starting of the chemo. They started at one o'clock PM till six o'clock PM I have a lot more treatments to go. not sure how they will go. My problem is Wednesday night I started hurting really bad in the cancer area  on my left side and up toward my neck, and in the port area  on the right side it is swollen and sore up into my neck and to touch it. I can't see it because of the bandages.  I don't know if this is normal. He said if this didn't work there was no more they could do  I pray I can be doing okay for Christmas and my family . Thank you so much. May God bless you, and if you don't believe in God . I truly  respect any information you give me. Thank you again

  • Rague
    Rague Member Posts: 3,653 Member

    My first port and chemo

    I am not sure of what some things are you mentioned A\C what is this. I  had cancer six years ago and had radiation treatments after my lumpectomy and done fine. In August 2012 I seen like a bruise on my breast that didn't heal. The doctor seen it and said it was Angiosarcoma cancer. I had five surgery's and a mastectomy, radiation and still comes back and spreading . My doctor said this was the only option I had left. He sent me a picture of the cancer, so we could both see if  there was any changes. I sent a copy to a friend and my sister so they could help me I see it every day so I can't judge it that well for changes. I will send them a picture in a couple of weeks. I went about seven AM Tuesday morning they put the port in about noon they brought me back to the room, fed me lunch and took me for the starting of the chemo. They started at one o'clock PM till six o'clock PM I have a lot more treatments to go. not sure how they will go. My problem is Wednesday night I started hurting really bad in the cancer area  on my left side and up toward my neck, and in the port area  on the right side it is swollen and sore up into my neck and to touch it. I can't see it because of the bandages.  I don't know if this is normal. He said if this didn't work there was no more they could do  I pray I can be doing okay for Christmas and my family . Thank you so much. May God bless you, and if you don't believe in God . I truly  respect any information you give me. Thank you again

    A/C is Adriamycin (aka the

    A/C is Adriamycin (aka the 'red devil') and Cytoxan.  They are 2 different chemos that are often used in conjunction with each other.  They are not mixed together but are given one following immediately after the other - in my case the Adriamycin was always first and followed immediately by the Cytoxan.

    Being sore up into your neck would probably be normal as often the tubing from the port is inserted in the neck.   I have heard that some Surgeons will make 2 incisions , 1 for the port itself and 1where the tube is actually put in the vein.  My Surgeon only made 1incision about 1 - 1 1/2 inch long and worked through that 1site.  Some swelling could possibly be expected as after all it is a surgery.  But keep an eye on it as it could also be something more than just 'usual'.  I had no bandage per se on implant site - just a bandaid and that was only for 24 hrs.  There were no external sutures but there were 3 steri-strips.  My Surgeon told me that it's easier for him to put in ports on 'larger' women than 'smaller' women as he has more area to work in/with.  He also said it is harder on 'larger' women than 'smaller' women also because the amount of area that is involved with the surgery.  Don't know for sure but that's whathe said and I guess he was right (at least about me), I am one of the 'smaller' according to him and i was back working horses and giving lessons 2 days after implant (I did get out of barn chores for 2 weeks as Dr told Hubby I shouldn't lift anything heavier than 5 lbs for 2 weks so Hubby and Son took over all chores so I had a great 2 week 'vacation'.) (Sorry for rambling - I do that sometimes - LOL!)

    I am a bit surprised that your Dr would say that Taxol was the only option - there are many different chemos that can be used.  I was told we would start with the A/C and if it didn't show signs of working - it did - we'd go to adifferent one

  • kmenurse
    kmenurse Member Posts: 217
    Praying for you!!! Stay

    Praying for you!!! Stay strong and keep positive.  Claim your healing... as it says in the Bible you have to Believe!!!!

  • Doe1504
    Doe1504 Member Posts: 94

    chemo treatment

    I am not sure of what some things are you mentioned A\C what is this. I  had cancer six years ago and had radiation treatments after my lumpectomy and done fine. In August 2012 I seen like a bruise on my breast that didn't heal. The doctor seen it and said it was Angiosarcoma cancer. I had five surgery's and a mastectomy, radiation and still comes back and spreading . My doctor said this was the only option I had left. He sent me a picture of the cancer, so we could both see if  there was any changes. I sent a copy to a friend and my sister so they could help me I see it every day so I can't judge it that well for changes. I will send them a picture in a couple of weeks. I went about seven AM Tuesday morning they put the port in about noon they brought me back to the room, fed me lunch and took me for the starting of the chemo. They started at one o'clock PM till six o'clock PM I have a lot more treatments to go. not sure how they will go. My problem is Wednesday night I started hurting really bad in the cancer area  on my left side and up toward my neck, and in the port area  on the right side it is swollen and sore up into my neck and to touch it. I can't see it because of the bandages.  I don't know if this is normal. He said if this didn't work there was no more they could do  I pray I can be doing okay for Christmas and my family . Thank you so much. May God bless you, and if you don't believe in God . I truly  respect any information you give me. Thank you again

    Taxol

    I am also doing the same treatents you are. I take mine weekly. I had a mastectomy in May 2013 and started chemo on June 27. I had 4 of the red devil and cytoxin, then waited 3 weeks and started the taxol. The red devil was not so kind to me, loss of hair, taste, ect. The taxol is not too very bad, I do stay tired ALL the time and have some bone pain and swelling in my feet. I have taken 7 so far and have 5 to go. With the red devil, I got tired gradually for a few days, with the taxol, it builds up each time and I stay constantly tired. I spend a lot of couch time. Just hang in there and stay positive, it is not easy but is doable! Pray and believe for a total healing! I pray daily for all my pink sisters. God Bless you my pink sister. <3

  • Rague
    Rague Member Posts: 3,653 Member
    Doe1504 said:

    Taxol

    I am also doing the same treatents you are. I take mine weekly. I had a mastectomy in May 2013 and started chemo on June 27. I had 4 of the red devil and cytoxin, then waited 3 weeks and started the taxol. The red devil was not so kind to me, loss of hair, taste, ect. The taxol is not too very bad, I do stay tired ALL the time and have some bone pain and swelling in my feet. I have taken 7 so far and have 5 to go. With the red devil, I got tired gradually for a few days, with the taxol, it builds up each time and I stay constantly tired. I spend a lot of couch time. Just hang in there and stay positive, it is not easy but is doable! Pray and believe for a total healing! I pray daily for all my pink sisters. God Bless you my pink sister. <3

    We are all so different!

    We are all so different!  Being IBC, I had to do neo-adjuvant (pre surgery) A/C and had UMX 2 weeks after last A/C.  3 weeks after surgery I started my 12 weekly Taxol.  Many/Most IBCers do both neoadjuvant but my Drs want neo-adjuvant and adjuvant - for me the right 'call' as as far as I know I am still NED 4 yrs out.

    A/C did not slow me down much at all - I was tired for a couple of day a couple of days after each infusion but naps handled it.  (I ran my first Powder Puff Mud Bog 2 days after 2nd infusion  with my stock IH Scout II I'd give to Son for a bogger and got 2nd behind a huge bogger.)

    I lost head hair (about 1/2 of brows an lashes), appetite, sense of smell and taste.  On Taxol - ALL remaining hair left, and complete and utter EXHAUSTION.  I existed on the couch or in bed.  That Thanksgiving wwe took Son, his GF, her kids, her Mom and Gmom to Deadwood for Dinner,  I had prime rib which I love and asked for reg. horseraddish not sauce.  I was slathering it on an they were looking at me like I was crazy.  Called the waiter over and told him I wanted horseraddish not the sauce and Hubby and Son both informed me I had the 'real' stuff'.  OOPS!  It's amazing how different we all react to 'whatever'! Winyan - The Power Within

    Susan