Ketogenic Diet & Targeting Cancer's Metabolism

renw
renw Member Posts: 282 Member
in Colorectal Cancer #1

I know we had the sugar debate over and over, but the letter I just received re my latest blood results deserve a mention:

Dear Mr. renw

in theses results you see Thymidinkinase going down. This means that the cell dividing is going down.

Also the LDH(LDH4+5) is going down, this means, that the damage in the mitochondrias is going to be repaired.

The same thing with LSA and M2PK (falling from 484 to 58,9). This means that there is less fermentation, i.e. less tumor cells.

All together is this a very good result.

Best wishes

Dr. Gerhard Siebenhüner


More information re above and some of my other observations are on my blog:  http://www.mcrc4.com/?p=4745

After reyding Seyfrieds book I have gone hardcore keto, and supplementing with 2DG. I have been off systemic chemo since April.

 

Comments

  • jen2012
    jen2012 Member Posts: 1,607 Member
    #2
    Thanks for sharing Ren - I'm

    Thanks for sharing Ren - I'm glad things are going well for you.   I'm curious how this works for your family - is your whole family eating the same way as you?  Our son is diabetic and does need a certain amount of carbs and our daughter is kind of a pasta nut - though she's been thinking of trying a gluten and dairy free diet.  My brother in law has been doing paleo for about a year and has lost a lot of weight.   Just trying to balance 2 teens (one diabetic), a toddler and a husband with an ileostomy who has a problem with too many veggies.  Do you find it difficult to eat this way - I saw your blog post about the McD shake :)  is this a complete change of lifestyle for you?

  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
    #3

     

    While I applaud your personal exploration into the practice of a ketogenic diet in your efforts to survive cancer, the hazards of forcing the body into surviving on Ketones should be noted to all readers:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-4887.1974.tb05180.x/pdf

     

    Whenever we force our body to do what it was not intended to do in normal conditions, we impair the overall health of our body.

     

    The body will survive on Ketone as it’s only means of surviving a state of total starvation; it is it’s basic survival means for a starvation situation that may end our life.

     

    To force our body into it’s “last resort” action is not the best idea for helping it survive. There are many ways to fight cancer, but using a radical, body stressing method may not be the best way to do battle.

     

    Chemotherapy and radiation both stress the body and it’s functions to the point of destruction and failure; is the forcing of ketogenic survival any better?

     

    What does one do, if the body can not survive on Ketone in the long term; if the body is already using it’s last resort for surviving? Is there yet another way that we do not know about, that will allow the body to continue to survive without glucose or ketone?

     

    Isn’t it like using your car’s small “spare tire” for a long distance trip, instead of using what is required?

     

    I have survived CC 4, since 2006 using healthy methods and herbal remedies; To me, it makes more sense to help the body survive, than to torture-test it by driving it into it’s “last chance” survival state (my thoughts and concerns are echoed well in the JAMA, AMA, NEJM and most all other medical journals).

     

    I wish you well with your attempts, but I do think people should be aware of all the facts.

     

    You don’t have to kill your body to kill cancer.

     

    Best of health,

     

    John

     

  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    #4
    jen2012 said:

    Thanks for sharing Ren - I'm

    Thanks for sharing Ren - I'm glad things are going well for you.   I'm curious how this works for your family - is your whole family eating the same way as you?  Our son is diabetic and does need a certain amount of carbs and our daughter is kind of a pasta nut - though she's been thinking of trying a gluten and dairy free diet.  My brother in law has been doing paleo for about a year and has lost a lot of weight.   Just trying to balance 2 teens (one diabetic), a toddler and a husband with an ileostomy who has a problem with too many veggies.  Do you find it difficult to eat this way - I saw your blog post about the McD shake :)  is this a complete change of lifestyle for you?

    Dr Mercola on ketogenic diet and cancer:

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/06/16/ketogenic-diet-benefits.aspx

    tho the latest from the FDA on hyperbaric therapy is negative

    http://medicalxpress.com/print296399924.html

     (and some -Stage II/III-who have done  or are doing 5FU-based treartment may find this abstract encouraging,as i would assume results even better for those treated after 2007):

    http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/early/2013/08/22/JCO.2013.49.4344.abstract

     

  • traci43
    traci43 Member Posts: 773 Member
    #5
    Hoping it's working!

    Ren - I've been keeping up with you on your blog.  I really like how you discuss your treatments and everything you are trying to do to beat cancer.  I  hope that these treatments do the trick and your tumors die.  It's such a tough disease to fight and you are taking it head on!  The ketogenic diet sounds tough, but if it's working for you, I say continue.  It's pretty obvious from all the previous discussion that no one path is the best, it's whatever works for you.  Keeping you in my thoughts, Traci

  • janderson1964
    janderson1964 Member Posts: 2,215 Member
    #6
    That's great news that the

    That's great news that the diet is working fr you.

     

  • Chelsea71
    Chelsea71 Member Posts: 1,169 Member
    #7
    Nice of you to post this

    Nice of you to post this info, Ren.  Regarding what you posted on your blog re low grade fever and sugar.  Just wanted to point out that I noticed the same thing with Steve.  He ran a low grade fever each evening.  Approx 38.8.  I strongly suspect it was due to tumor activity.  When he would avoid sugar, the fever would subside.  If he resumed sugar consumption, the fever would return.  

    I, myself, tried the ketogenic diet last Christmas for the purpose of dropping a quick couple of pounds.  It completely wiped me out. The weight fell off, but I had absolutely no energy.  Could barely function.  It affected my menstrual cycle, as well.  (I will spare everyone the specific details).  It just surprises me that people, such as yourself, going through cancer and treatment can handle such a radical diet.  I do think there is something to it, though.

    Good luck

  • lp1964
    lp1964 Member Posts: 1,239 Member
    #8
    Again it comes down to carbs.

    In rich prosperous countries we take the diet most people have been living on since the Second World War as standard and normal. 

    Unfortunatelly during this time we have been consuming multiple times the healthy amount of carbohydrates (sweets, white flour products, fruits etc.), meat, alcohol. White flower products and rice were consumed in moderate amounts and sweets were luxory to be had a few times a year.

    Ketogenic or any low carb diet is not anything extreme (except if you eat a ton of meat every day), it used to be the norm in most of the world. What's extreme is the amount of carbs we have. Let's not take the last 50 years of the deceloped world as the standard out of hundreds of years of human evolution.

    Laz

  • renw
    renw Member Posts: 282 Member
    #9
    Chelsea71 said:

    Nice of you to post this

    Nice of you to post this info, Ren.  Regarding what you posted on your blog re low grade fever and sugar.  Just wanted to point out that I noticed the same thing with Steve.  He ran a low grade fever each evening.  Approx 38.8.  I strongly suspect it was due to tumor activity.  When he would avoid sugar, the fever would subside.  If he resumed sugar consumption, the fever would return.  

    I, myself, tried the ketogenic diet last Christmas for the purpose of dropping a quick couple of pounds.  It completely wiped me out. The weight fell off, but I had absolutely no energy.  Could barely function.  It affected my menstrual cycle, as well.  (I will spare everyone the specific details).  It just surprises me that people, such as yourself, going through cancer and treatment can handle such a radical diet.  I do think there is something to it, though.

    Good luck

    The diet wiped me out for

    The diet wiped me out for about 8 days. No energy at all, but for many people that is normal as the body transitions from Glucose to Ketone metabolism. My energy returned as soon as I went into ketosis. Energy wise I am now fine. The diet is surprisingly simple to stick to once you get your hands on low carb protein bread and insoluble fibre pasta.

  • renw
    renw Member Posts: 282 Member
    #10
    John23 said:

     

    While I applaud your personal exploration into the practice of a ketogenic diet in your efforts to survive cancer, the hazards of forcing the body into surviving on Ketones should be noted to all readers:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-4887.1974.tb05180.x/pdf

     

    Whenever we force our body to do what it was not intended to do in normal conditions, we impair the overall health of our body.

     

    The body will survive on Ketone as it’s only means of surviving a state of total starvation; it is it’s basic survival means for a starvation situation that may end our life.

     

    To force our body into it’s “last resort” action is not the best idea for helping it survive. There are many ways to fight cancer, but using a radical, body stressing method may not be the best way to do battle.

     

    Chemotherapy and radiation both stress the body and it’s functions to the point of destruction and failure; is the forcing of ketogenic survival any better?

     

    What does one do, if the body can not survive on Ketone in the long term; if the body is already using it’s last resort for surviving? Is there yet another way that we do not know about, that will allow the body to continue to survive without glucose or ketone?

     

    Isn’t it like using your car’s small “spare tire” for a long distance trip, instead of using what is required?

     

    I have survived CC 4, since 2006 using healthy methods and herbal remedies; To me, it makes more sense to help the body survive, than to torture-test it by driving it into it’s “last chance” survival state (my thoughts and concerns are echoed well in the JAMA, AMA, NEJM and most all other medical journals).

     

    I wish you well with your attempts, but I do think people should be aware of all the facts.

     

    You don’t have to kill your body to kill cancer.

     

    Best of health,

     

    John

     

    John, Your disdain for the

    John, Your disdain for the ketegenic diet is well know, but you are ned so feel free to stuff your face with what ever you like. You have that luxury. I on the other hand am dying, and while I was on a "balanced" diet that you advocate, I had 5% tumour growth per week.

    With the keto diet, I may have found something that appears to be working, so I am sharing my experience as it may help others. Not only did I notice that my cancer fevers stopped, clinical tests show an effect as well and my CEA dropped from 3300 to 900. Its only a piece of the puzzle, but it may be a significant one. Also keep in mind that these results are with no systemic chemo.

    The bottom line, if you have active cancer, or are controlling it through systemic chemo and would like better quality of life without the nasty side effects, the keto diet in combination with 2DG and DCA may be a solution. God knows that I tried everything else under the sun and a change of diet is a small price to pay. My results may be temporary, but take from my experience what you will and make your own mind up.

    I should also add that I know one other person who achieved fulll remission on the keto diet and 2DG and pete seems to be having success with it as well.

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402
    #11
    Great stuff Ren

    and i can't believe someone actually posted a link to a paper from 1974 that NO AUTHOR  even applied their name to in order to ridicule a diet that has extensive clinical research behind it.

    I can also post links here showing others have 'cured' cancer from this diet and also I could post links from Chinese traditional doctors who recommend not to use herbs to try and cure stage IV CRC.

    But anyone can find those links online.... 

     

  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425 Member
    #12
    manwithnoname said:

    Great stuff Ren

    and i can't believe someone actually posted a link to a paper from 1974 that NO AUTHOR  even applied their name to in order to ridicule a diet that has extensive clinical research behind it.

    I can also post links here showing others have 'cured' cancer from this diet and also I could post links from Chinese traditional doctors who recommend not to use herbs to try and cure stage IV CRC.

    But anyone can find those links online.... 

     

    Your posts are always very

    Your posts are always very interesting to me,  thank you so much for posting!!!   Continued success :)  :)

  • annalexandria
    annalexandria Member Posts: 2,571 Member
    #13
    renw said:

    The diet wiped me out for

    The diet wiped me out for about 8 days. No energy at all, but for many people that is normal as the body transitions from Glucose to Ketone metabolism. My energy returned as soon as I went into ketosis. Energy wise I am now fine. The diet is surprisingly simple to stick to once you get your hands on low carb protein bread and insoluble fibre pasta.

    You're an amazingly strong guy, Ren.

    It takes a lot of effort and willpower to do what you're doing.  I'm glad that you continue to share your efforts with us!

  • annalexandria
    annalexandria Member Posts: 2,571 Member
    #14
    Chelsea71 said:

    Nice of you to post this

    Nice of you to post this info, Ren.  Regarding what you posted on your blog re low grade fever and sugar.  Just wanted to point out that I noticed the same thing with Steve.  He ran a low grade fever each evening.  Approx 38.8.  I strongly suspect it was due to tumor activity.  When he would avoid sugar, the fever would subside.  If he resumed sugar consumption, the fever would return.  

    I, myself, tried the ketogenic diet last Christmas for the purpose of dropping a quick couple of pounds.  It completely wiped me out. The weight fell off, but I had absolutely no energy.  Could barely function.  It affected my menstrual cycle, as well.  (I will spare everyone the specific details).  It just surprises me that people, such as yourself, going through cancer and treatment can handle such a radical diet.  I do think there is something to it, though.

    Good luck

    That's really interesting,

    the relationship you saw between the sugar and the fevers.   Fevers for me have always been the sign my cancer is doing its thing.  And I had them on a daily basis, as Steve did.  The strange thing is that I really craved candy after I had my first surgery, which I figured was just a desire for comfort food.  But now I'm envisioning the little SOBs down there enjoying little nibbles of my Hot Tamales and regaining their strength. Frown

    I've been thinking of you, Chels.  Hope you're hanging in there.

  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
    #15
    renw said:

    John, Your disdain for the

    John, Your disdain for the ketegenic diet is well know, but you are ned so feel free to stuff your face with what ever you like. You have that luxury. I on the other hand am dying, and while I was on a "balanced" diet that you advocate, I had 5% tumour growth per week.

    With the keto diet, I may have found something that appears to be working, so I am sharing my experience as it may help others. Not only did I notice that my cancer fevers stopped, clinical tests show an effect as well and my CEA dropped from 3300 to 900. Its only a piece of the puzzle, but it may be a significant one. Also keep in mind that these results are with no systemic chemo.

    The bottom line, if you have active cancer, or are controlling it through systemic chemo and would like better quality of life without the nasty side effects, the keto diet in combination with 2DG and DCA may be a solution. God knows that I tried everything else under the sun and a change of diet is a small price to pay. My results may be temporary, but take from my experience what you will and make your own mind up.

    I should also add that I know one other person who achieved fulll remission on the keto diet and 2DG and pete seems to be having success with it as well.

    important observations

    Your temperature - tumorigenic fevers linked with sugar and then reversed with ketogenic diet are an important observation.  That CEA decline is pretty impressive, too. Hope you can keep it declining, Ren.

  • Chelsea71
    Chelsea71 Member Posts: 1,169 Member
    #16
    annalexandria said:

    That's really interesting,

    the relationship you saw between the sugar and the fevers.   Fevers for me have always been the sign my cancer is doing its thing.  And I had them on a daily basis, as Steve did.  The strange thing is that I really craved candy after I had my first surgery, which I figured was just a desire for comfort food.  But now I'm envisioning the little SOBs down there enjoying little nibbles of my Hot Tamales and regaining their strength. Frown

    I've been thinking of you, Chels.  Hope you're hanging in there.

    Thanks Ann.  I am hanging in

    Thanks Ann.  I am hanging in there.  Focusing on getting through each day.  Not thinking too far ahead.  I have too much time on my hands right now.  So much of my time has revolved around Steve's illness.  I miss him tremendously but there is also this feeling of loss of purpose or focus.  No more tests, appointments, upcoming surgeries, research........  Not that I necessarily miss these things.  It's just that my role has ended and I need to find something to fill the void.  I head back to work next Tues, this should help.

     

    Thanks

    Chelsea

  • renw
    renw Member Posts: 282 Member
    #17
    jen2012 said:

    Thanks for sharing Ren - I'm

    Thanks for sharing Ren - I'm glad things are going well for you.   I'm curious how this works for your family - is your whole family eating the same way as you?  Our son is diabetic and does need a certain amount of carbs and our daughter is kind of a pasta nut - though she's been thinking of trying a gluten and dairy free diet.  My brother in law has been doing paleo for about a year and has lost a lot of weight.   Just trying to balance 2 teens (one diabetic), a toddler and a husband with an ileostomy who has a problem with too many veggies.  Do you find it difficult to eat this way - I saw your blog post about the McD shake :)  is this a complete change of lifestyle for you?

    With kids its hard to avoid

    With kids its hard to avoid Mc Donnalds especially when the happy meals contain smurf figurines, but no this was never our lifestyle more a treat maybe once every few months. We always tried to eat healthy otherwise. Surprisingly I still went to McD's even on the Keto diet. I just ate meat patty and nothing else.

    With diabetes you need to be very carefull with the keto diet, as it can easily lead to ketoacidosis. Stydu up on it before trying to attempt it. The keto diet can however cure type ii diabetes from what I read.

    As far as being difficult, it was very hard initially, but once I built up a library of good keto recipes it became easy. low carb bread and pasta made all the difference for me as that pretty much opened up a whole new world of cullinary options.

  • rlridings
    rlridings Member Posts: 42
    #18
    2DG

    what does that signify?

  • renw
    renw Member Posts: 282 Member
    #19
    rlridings said:

    2DG

    what does that signify?

    2dg = 2-deoxy-d-glucose. Its

    2dg = 2-deoxy-d-glucose. Its a modified form of glucose which behaves like normal glucose, but can not be converted to energy once taken up by cells. 

Discussion Boards