Sandy and Laz

mp327 said:

islandgirlculebra

I was disappointed with my husband too, in that he made no attempt to learn anything about this cancer when I was diagnosed.  He is a person who is not into details, such as when he talks to his mom on the phone for a half hour and I ask him for an update afterwards.  His response--everything's okay.  That's all I get!  I think that's what a lot of men want--for everything to be okay.  I think burying their emotions is one way they deal with this.  If they don't think about it, it will go away.  I am quite the opposite.  I want to know what's going on and what I can do about it. 

Perhaps we all need to go on Dr. Phil to discuss this. 

I saw one of your previous posts about celebrating your 5 year survival with your husband. If you haven't already, I would suggest just TELLING him what you want to do to celebrate, that you don't want jewels, you want to spend time together..... In July we celebrated my being cancer free for one year.... I told him, I want to go out somewhere special to dinner..... He agreed and we really had a nice time togeher. Sometimes you just have to hit them over the head with stuff. Subtle suggestions just don't work. lol

Marynb said:

I have finally come to the conclusion...
That I will never get men! I am blessed with wonderful brothers and brothers in law and they are all very caring, open, demonstrative men. I guess I expected to be treated the same way from my former husband. Bottom line, I am just fine being single now......lol.

I have come to the conclusion that being not so good at caregiving must be biological in nature.  There was such a difference between the patience and tolerance of my female friends vs. my husband in dealing with me when I was really sick that it was astounding. Not to say that he isn't a good man because he is. He cooked for me everyday and tried hard to get me to eat (he's the main cook of the house anyway cuz he likes it and I don't) and took me to my radiation treatments and Dr. appointments when I was so sick I couldn't drive. But not good at doing dishes or cleaning the house or doing the laundry during this period of time when I flat-out just couldn't do it, so the house was a pig pen. This to me is all part of caregiving, but he just didn't get that at all.  It just seemed he had a hard time dealing with me when I was really sick and needy after I came out of the hospital.  He said I seemed like an "alien" to him, that I was demanding, and I could tell he was annoyed with me at times although he wouldn't admit it.  He just didn't get how sick and desperate I was, (and yes I felt like an alien in my own body) and I couldn't even begin to explain it to him or anyone else for that matter. But my female friends seemed to "get it" even though none of them had experienced cancer, radiation or chemo themselves. So I just think some of this must be biological in nature... men are biologically geared to provide and protect, and women are geared for nurturing, and our brains are just "wired" that way.  Maybe Dr. Phil could shed some light on all of this for us, as Martha suggested.....

islandgirlculebra said:

Hey Martha

I saw one of your previous posts about celebrating your 5 year survival with your husband. If you haven't already, I would suggest just TELLING him what you want to do to celebrate, that you don't want jewels, you want to spend time together..... In July we celebrated my being cancer free for one year.... I told him, I want to go out somewhere special to dinner..... He agreed and we really had a nice time togeher. Sometimes you just have to hit them over the head with stuff. Subtle suggestions just don't work. lol

 

Sometimes we have to be direct and to the point--you are right!  I'm sure we will find some way to celebrate this special milestone together.  However, I may be celebrating it in another way as well.  I am on a cancer blog and a get together has been planned for early November in San Diego.  My husband is encouraging me to go, as (to my surprise) I think he realizes how meaningful this would be for me.  I would have an opportunity to meet many of the people I've been online with for several years now.  That really excites me!  So I may go--still sleeping on it.

islandgirlculebra said:

Marynb...

I must say a part of me agrees with this too. lol

...there is a huge biological deference between the genders that fundamentally regulates how we communicate, relate and react. But within one gender there is a broad spectrum. Some try their best through intelligent effort to bridge these differences and maintain a healthy, caring relationship, some don't give a damn and stay ignorant, selfish jerks and bitche$. I'm dealing with one myself too.

I don't care, I still haven't given up on good relationships, romance and making everyday the best I can make it to myself, my loved ones and the world. What else would I live for?

Laz

Marynb said:

Of course
I am sort of being tongue and cheek, but I do think men are perfectly capable of being kind, considerate, communicative, and demonstrably caring.

If I ever have another committed relationship, the man would have to be all of the above. I put up with a self centered man for over 2 decades and I would never put up with it again. That is just me.

I focus all my love on my child, my family, and close friends. Real love is all there is to live for, I agree!

We come in in all different shapes and sizes and no two are the same. I was blessed to grow up in a home where both my mom and dad displayed, kindness, respect, responsibility, faith, fun and romance daily. When my dad was treated for prostate cancer 20yrs ago my mom dug deep for patience, and found just what they both needed, then 8yrs ago she was treated for ovarion cancer and he was devastated but remained the strong husband he always was, he didn't quite understand what she was going through but he often sat NEXT to her while she rested, feeling sick and watched HER favorite shows on t.v. Sometimes she would dose off, but he would continue watching so he could tell her how it ended. When she died after 3yrs he continued, and still does  watch some of her favorite shows, he says he doesn't like them but when he gets to heaven he knows she'll be talking about them!

My husband was treated for cancer (a bone marrow transplant) during the same time that I was recovering and then as I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Although the "romance" left our marriage long before either of us got sick......truthfully I don't know if it was ever there????, we were and remain the BEST of friends. We will be married 30yrs this month and have raised 5 children and help with 6 grandkids. I usually think that Gods plan in making my husband sick was not to cause more stress but to make him a better caregiver for me. He has done little if any research on my cancers or treatments, the fact that I have a colostomy completely freaks him out, but in his "manly" quiet way, he is always there for me. We are comfortable with each other and I couln't imagine going through this with anyone else.

As always, all in my prayers as we move forward in health.

Marynb said:

Eihtak
Your Mom and Dad must have been the sweetest couple. Sounds like your husband is a very good man too! Romance is terrific, but fleeting. Love endures. When I go to the hospital and see the couples holding hands in the waiting room, or in the infusion center, or radiation wing, I smile to know that real love is possible, and know very well that I had tons of romance(and it was great fun), but the man I was married to for 20 years never loved me.

I really don't think being uncaring is a gender issue. There are caring men and caring women. Uncaring men and uncaring women. I don't think it is a biological difference. I know it isn't. It may be a sociological influence, but not biological. Parents need to really focus on raising caring boys to men!

Loving care is present in both genders, we just express it differently as we discussed it above And we have different needs. 

The way I see romance and love is this. Love being a very intense emotion, we have no control over. It is there or it is not. Too often it  happens that two people fall in love then this emotion subsides and they freak out, because they can't regenerate it. If love endures it's great. But what if it goes away and you are stock in a marriage with kids and mortgage?

I believe in attraction on top of love. Attraction says it in its meaning: pulling two people together. I like it because attraction can be generated and maintained. Everybody can and should dress attractively, be groomed all the time, treat others with respect, perform attractive and admirable things for themselves and to others. When you are attracted to a person even if love subsides or disappears you have something holding you two and your family together. Relying and building a future and family on an unpredictable emotion like love is irresponsible. You can't work on love, but you can always improve attraction towards one an other.

Laz

Marynb said:

Laz
Without going into it too deeply, I do not agree that we " have no control over love". I think that love is a choice. It is much, much deeper than attraction, which is fleeting. Love is what I see in the hospital, not attraction! A cancer patient who is vomitting from chemo may not be attractive, but may be very loved. Love is sooooo much more than physical attraction!

...if you talk about universal love, but this discussion started about marriages and romantic relationships between men and women. 

Im all for love and I'm in love now, but we see it way too often that love subsides, burns out and may disappear. I'd like to, but I can't build my realationship and family on something that way too often disappears between couples. Should all relationships and the families built on them be damned as soon as the love goes away. No! You need a force that holds it together just in case. And attraction, admiration, respect are perfect for that, because they can be maintained forever. Is attraction fleeting? If you let it. If your man walks around in the house in pee stained pajamas, if the woman wears her green cucumber mask in front of me, if he is a jerk with the waiter without a reason, if you curse out your own mother infront of your children...

Both men and women will check out an attractive person, we all notice someone who is kind, we recognize hard selfless charity work. And this works in romantic relationships too, it just takes some learning, implementation and maintainance that not too many people are willing to do. Guys get the wondering eyes or porn, women have their fantasies and their girlfriends to complain of lost love and excitement.

Look what a cancer forum posting turns into

 Laz

eihtak said:

Men/Women

We come in in all different shapes and sizes and no two are the same. I was blessed to grow up in a home where both my mom and dad displayed, kindness, respect, responsibility, faith, fun and romance daily. When my dad was treated for prostate cancer 20yrs ago my mom dug deep for patience, and found just what they both needed, then 8yrs ago she was treated for ovarion cancer and he was devastated but remained the strong husband he always was, he didn't quite understand what she was going through but he often sat NEXT to her while she rested, feeling sick and watched HER favorite shows on t.v. Sometimes she would dose off, but he would continue watching so he could tell her how it ended. When she died after 3yrs he continued, and still does  watch some of her favorite shows, he says he doesn't like them but when he gets to heaven he knows she'll be talking about them!

My husband was treated for cancer (a bone marrow transplant) during the same time that I was recovering and then as I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Although the "romance" left our marriage long before either of us got sick......truthfully I don't know if it was ever there????, we were and remain the BEST of friends. We will be married 30yrs this month and have raised 5 children and help with 6 grandkids. I usually think that Gods plan in making my husband sick was not to cause more stress but to make him a better caregiver for me. He has done little if any research on my cancers or treatments, the fact that I have a colostomy completely freaks him out, but in his "manly" quiet way, he is always there for me. We are comfortable with each other and I couln't imagine going through this with anyone else.

As always, all in my prayers as we move forward in health.

That description of how your Dad was when your Mom was sick brought tears to my eyes. That is what I craved. Him sitting with me even to watch a tv show he wasn't particularly loving. I was lonely a lot. He left me several weekends for motorcycle trips when I was at my sickest. But when he was home, he never made me a smoothie. People from the church were making him dinners at my request, and he never blended me a smoothie. But I didn't know how to ask for help. So I have really been working at my communication and learning to be a lot more direct so he knows I have needs and from time to time expect him to help me with them.

This has been interesting reading. I just got back from a trip and am catching up! God bless your parents.

All the best,

Sandy