Cancer and Shame?

Chickadee1955 said:

Oh my gosh, Traci!!!   I KNEW

Oh my gosh, Traci!!!   I KNEW exercise caused my cancer!!!  (what little I did)  

Actually, I accused my doctor of causing my cancer.  I was fine until he told me I should do 

breast self-exams.  The first time I did one---BOOM--I found I lump!  You should have seen his face

when I told him that!

Chickadee

 

I really wish I had.  That is a good one!

Doris

PennyJ said:

I don't feel shame about having had cancer but

I do feel shame and embarassment whenever I get a call from the hospital wanting to know when I plan to pay my outstanding bills.  I have worked since I was 14 years old and have never failed to pay my bills on time until I got sick.  My husband is disabled and my son has a serious medical condition, so our medical bills were already pretty high before I was diagnosed with breast cancer (I was the healthy one!).  I was out of work for over a year due to complications and treatment side effects and was really lucky to have disability insurance and an employer who held my job for me.  I was doing pretty well with staying on top of things until just before I went back to work and then the bills got ahead of me.  I've talked to a few of the people we owe and most of them have been very understanding, but I just can't bring myself to contact them all because I am ashamed to say I just don't have the money to pay.  I know I will catch up eventually but I do get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I sit down to pay bills and have to decide which ones are going to be late.  Sorry for the long post.  I guess I didn't realize just how bad I felt about this (what with the trying to stay alive an all) until I read your post and the responses.  Thanks for listening, I'm getting there, hopefully will be caught up in another month or two (until we get the bill for my son's hospitalization in December)....

Penny,

Please see your patient advocate at the hospital or cancer center when you have problems with medical bills.  You do not need to be ashamed of anything.  You should be commended as a wonderful example of a good citizen.  Everyone goes through hard times at one time or another.  

My son has a medical problem and back when he was younger, I would explain to who ever it was and was always met with understanding and help.

Remember one thing,  our country needs more good citizen like you.  Hopefully life will soon be easier for you,

Wishing you the very best,

Doris

TraciInLA said:

What if? vs. shame

Ayse,

First of all...every one of us is entitled to feel what we feel, and I love that you're asking this question to try to think through your feelings a little more.  Good for you, and good for us, too!

For me, I think there's a difference between "what if?" and actual, full-blown shame.

I've definitely had lots of moments when I thought, "What if I hadn't taken birth control pills for so many years?"  "What if I'd worked harder to lose weight?"  "What if I hadn't eaten so much junk food in my 20s and 30s?"  "What if I'd started exercising sooner?"  What if, what if, what if...maybe then I wouldn't have got breast cancer.*

On the other hand, when I lost my hair, the reason I refused to cover my head (except when I was out in the sun) was because that felt to me like I was saying I was ashamed of having cancer, like I wanted to hide it, and that didn't feel right to me at all.  Again, each one of us has different feelings about this -- those were just my feelings.  That was the point where "what if" would have turned into shame for me, and I wasn't going to cross that line.

Traci

*Side note: I actually started a real, planned, consistent exercise program for the first time in my life about 6 weeks before I was diagnosed -- which proves that exercise causes cancer, and we should all avoid it!   

Hi Tracy,

I haven't been on in a few years because I thought I was all done with this "adventure" after bilat. mastectomies, radiation, chemo, implants and even a hysterectomy due to my BRCA2 pos. results.  But NOOOOO---breast cancer is the "gift" that keeps giving!  I have mets to a few areas now and will probably start the joy of chemo again soon.  Have read all kinds of things during and after my first go-around, and had to quit reading---so it's obvious that reading also causes cancer. 

I don't think I felt shame when I was going thru the "bald" period, but I did notice that when I'd go to the store with my scarf on, people would either look away (it might be catching) or stare.  If we made eye contact I'd always smile, and they seemed to relax.  I also made a point of carrying out my own groceries to show them I wasn't on my last legs.  Maybe that was the flip side of shame.  More like defiance.   

People who stare, or comment, or avoid us should be the ones who are ashamed.  We're dealing with it----but for the grace of God go they!  And how would they deal with it?  I think you're all doing a wonderful job of handling it by being on this site and helping others while you help yourself.

I'm over 60, and this is just one of those things that make me a tougher, "don't mess with me" old lady.  With luck I'll get older and tougher (my poor family!)

Jan 

Lynn Smith said:

Penny

I'm sorry you're going through such hard times.I know most is paid by my insurance but now we have a $4500 deductible and it's hard.Never had those bills until I was dx(then insurance changed). Always 100% paid.We have a retiremnt saved up but hate to ever have to use it for my breast cancer.Besides we have to live however many years we have.My husband's medical is paid through the VA. No worries with him.Just me.

Anyway my sister was dx last year also.She was changing insurance companies and thought they would pay it.She hadn't been to a doctor yet for dx.Well she was told insurance wouldn't pay anything.They said her conditon was pre existing. The surgery was $75,000 and not sure what the chemo. She gets her bills and pays some every month.She got a nice divorce settlement but OMG what she has now she must live on it for her lifetime. However long that will be??I see her being so tight on her electric and keeping her heat down.I would hate to live like that.I worry about her. 

Her doctor sent her to another hospital for chemo.She thought they would take over that since a non profit hosptial but so far it's not happening.She does get her Armidex very cheap.She takes that daily.

You don't need this worry. I know my husband is retiring soon and we will need to buckle down big time. It's a worry when you're  fighting something for the rest of your life and wonder how will you pay for it????  

Do the best you can.Sounds like you already are. 

Lynn Smith

I appreciate your advice and kind thoughts.  I do have a payment plan with the hospital where I stayed for complications (twice), it's actually my local hospital that has been the source of most of the grief about medical bills.  We have several much smaller bills there and, while I have been paying them down with every pay check, they've continued to call.  It hasn't all been bad though, the company that provides our oil said not to worry about the monthly payment plan, just to pay when we could and my coworkers collected money to help us pay for a new engine in our car when it died (halfway through chemo).  So we'll be ok, I guess the shame question just brought up some feelings I hadn't really realized were there.  You all are great, thanks for your care and support!

I am late reading this post but it looks like Ayse began a very lively and interesting discussion. 

When I was first diagnosed at age 33, I mainly remember feeling very betrayed by my body.  Until then, I had never really been sick.  I think there was a part of my psyche that felt ashamed that this was something I couldn't control.  Isn't that dumb?!

My gyn, also a family friend, gave me some good advice.  He had just been very sick himself and said that it was very hard to let go of control, but, when he did, a burden was lifted. 

Have been an RN for 44 years. I know that guilt is taken to a new level by most woman. And at least in my case, being a caretaker and a Catholic compounded this even more.  But, my upbringing taught me that I was pretty wonderful and a very strong woman so I did alot of mental processing through the years on this subject and rejected much of it. I think we feel guilt because most of us want to make a positive difference in the world so we multi-task like crazy and hold ourselves to very high standards. Hopefully we learn to have realistic expectations for what we can accomplish without neglecting ourselves.  We also have had to work on what we will accept and incorporate into our philosophy about our personal appearance and what we will do to get and attain it.  But I think one of the most important arms of this process is if you really care what people think of you. Being overweight with early gray hair, made me decide if people didn't like it, they didn't have to look. Why should I care what someone, who has nothing to do with my life, thinks of me ? Why would I give my personal power to a stranger? And if my friends are critical, are they really friends? I will be my own judge, not strangers!  Another facet of this, is healthcare policies that although unproven have started to blame the victim for their illness. This is clever, dishonest way to parse out  funds and falsely justify denying healthcare to millions.

I think your feeling of guilt is more that you couldn't control things enough to prevent your cancer. Which of course is impossible, but makes us feel weak and betrayed. I think I felt differently because my Mom had BC and I just knew I would have it some day. The only guilt I had was putting my family and friends through the worry. My daughters immediately said don't blame yourself, blame the monster that is cancer. So I'm just asking, could any of us really have prevented this from happening? The answer is NO. People who are perfect physical specimens still get cancer. Actually we are amazing for going through the pain and suffering, and coming out stronger and better for it . Growing stronger mentally, physically and spiritually and changing our priorities because we really know what a gift our life is. We have to be strong and not be our own worst enemy. If we and our loved ones think we look great, even though we're flat, bald, chubby etc. from our treatments, surgery and meds then we do. And we are more thankful than most, just to be alive. We are survivors watch us shine.

jojo2

jojo2 said:

guilt

Have been an RN for 44 years. I know that guilt is taken to a new level by most woman. And at least in my case, being a caretaker and a Catholic compounded this even more.  But, my upbringing taught me that I was pretty wonderful and a very strong woman so I did alot of mental processing through the years on this subject and rejected much of it. I think we feel guilt because most of us want to make a positive difference in the world so we multi-task like crazy and hold ourselves to very high standards. Hopefully we learn to have realistic expectations for what we can accomplish without neglecting ourselves.  We also have had to work on what we will accept and incorporate into our philosophy about our personal appearance and what we will do to get and attain it.  But I think one of the most important arms of this process is if you really care what people think of you. Being overweight with early gray hair, made me decide if people didn't like it, they didn't have to look. Why should I care what someone, who has nothing to do with my life, thinks of me ? Why would I give my personal power to a stranger? And if my friends are critical, are they really friends? I will be my own judge, not strangers!  Another facet of this, is healthcare policies that although unproven have started to blame the victim for their illness. This is clever, dishonest way to parse out  funds and falsely justify denying healthcare to millions.

I think your feeling of guilt is more that you couldn't control things enough to prevent your cancer. Which of course is impossible, but makes us feel weak and betrayed. I think I felt differently because my Mom had BC and I just knew I would have it some day. The only guilt I had was putting my family and friends through the worry. My daughters immediately said don't blame yourself, blame the monster that is cancer. So I'm just asking, could any of us really have prevented this from happening? The answer is NO. People who are perfect physical specimens still get cancer. Actually we are amazing for going through the pain and suffering, and coming out stronger and better for it . Growing stronger mentally, physically and spiritually and changing our priorities because we really know what a gift our life is. We have to be strong and not be our own worst enemy. If we and our loved ones think we look great, even though we're flat, bald, chubby etc. from our treatments, surgery and meds then we do. And we are more thankful than most, just to be alive. We are survivors watch us shine.

jojo2

sorry, double post!

I was diagnosed with BC in November 2012, and am fortunate to have very supportive family and friends who helped me through radical masectomy, chemotherapy and now radiation. I readily admit to the disease to the people in my life -friends, strangers yet am very reluctant to discuss my cancer at work ( they still dont know!!).

Is it shame or not wanting to be treated differently? my biggest fear is being subject to pity.