New Poster, old problem

Rakendra
Rakendra Member Posts: 197 Member
in Prostate Cancer #1

Hi, my name is Radendra.  I am 81 and live with my gorgeous 26 YO Philippina wife in Davao, Mindanao.  Four days ago I took a bad fall backwards out of the shower and hurt my back.  Went to the Hospital thinking I cracked a rib, and found out I had fractures in two vertabrae and maybe Matasses.  I have seen three doctors since then, and today I got an Atomic Bone Scan, and will have results tomorow, which I will post.  My PSA is 100 and I take Tamsulosin and Finesteride.  About 15 years ago, my PSA started going up, first to 6 then 8 then 11 then 15 and two years ago it was 34.  I never did anything about the prostate because my information was that the PSA test is not particularly accurate and that something else would get me before the Prostate cancer.  So far, the drs say that they see signs of blastic deformation.  If I have bone matasses it must be early stages, but I guess that the bone scan will tell more.

      Now, interestingly, even though I am 81, I am a competitive body builder, and have entered Masters Bodybuilding contests in the Phils.  Of course, I cannot compete with the best of the best of guys who are only 45 YO, but I am never last either.  And, I am very strong.  I was going to compete last week in Mr. Davao, but four weeks earlier I got a pinched nerve in my spine (ouch!!) and the doc said I had too much upper body bulk and had to lose weight.  I stopped eating, could not work out and my body weight went from 204 to 190 in four weeks!!!  I also lost my body, as the weight loss was all muscle. I also stopped using steroids.  Also, I am a Vegan, do a lot of antiaging supplements, and have taken great care of myself.  I eat lots of fresh veggies raw, and fruit, never eat sugar or anything that I consider unhealthy, like just about everything in the super market.

     I have done lots of research on the net.  I do not like the side effects of ADT, but it seems to work and it seems I will have to take it.  I would have no problem with castration, and would like some advice about that.  Now,my wife is absolutely gorgeous, and she is Ok with no sex.  She just wants to be with me as long as possible, so I need to do anything to prolong my life. I have not been able to find out what my life expectancy may be, but at 81, if I could get three to five years, I would be joyous.

  I am certainly in very top shape for an 81 YO, and few men in the world are as strong.  I have a world class body for 80YO, but a good 70 YO would beat me easy.  There just are not money 80 YO guys who are in any kind of shape, even the contest winners.  So, I thought I would share my story and tell what the Docs are saying, what my bone scan says.  I would think that castration and removal of the prostate would work, but I do not get any confirmation about this.  Look, I have had an incredibly wonderful like, living in Aspen, Colorado and teaching advanced skiing for 30 years followed by 15 years of windsurfing in Maui, Western Australia, and Cypress.  I lived in Thailand off and on for more than 25 years and speak Thai fluently.  Sex will have to go regardless of what treatment I recieve, but I have no regrets at all because ------ Well, just lets say that when I was able, I made full use of my resources.  My wife's only desire is that I live as long as I can.  This has made us much closer, and we were very close before, but now we relish every second together.  She goes with me to the hospital and is the most wonderful person I have ever known.  

   I have had a very active spirtual life and was priviledged to have studied with several Enlightend Marters in the USA, India, and Europe.  Anyway, I am very grateful for finding this board and learning from all of your posts.  I am hoping to get guidance from you old hands, as I am not very trustworthy of doctors, pharmaceutical companies, governments, or treatments, especially Chemo and Radiation.  I have read that 33% of people with terminal cancer die from doctor induced death.  The treatment kills them before the cancer.  Anyway, thanks for reading this, and thanks for all you posters who help so much.  Love, Swami Rakendra

Comments

  • yankeefan
    yankeefan Member Posts: 69
    #2
    assuming this isn't an april's fools day story....

    i think stopping the steroids was a no brainer....why were you taking them in the first place...if you really care about being good to your body.....

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,346 Member
    #3
    Dear Swami Rakendra

    I am sorry for the situation that you are facing.

    Please post what the bone scan shows...good luck.

    It is a great thing that you are eating in a health way. Many of us have made changes to eat healthier. Heart healthy is prostate healthy.

    Large amounts of some supplements can promote prostate cancer. For example vitamin e and selinien . There were a couple of studies done that indicated this. The Select study was one of these.

    UCSF lists dietary advice. It is somewhat dated now, about 3 years old. There are also other sources, but this a great one to review.

    If you have cancer and it has metaisized, there are a lot of hormonal drugs out there that will treat. Lately there are a many new sofisticated drugs that have been develped that your medical onocologist can choose from. You need to make a medical oncologist the primary member of your medical team. Please find the best one that you can afford....as if your life is dependent on this, which it does.

    Prostate removal is not a good idea for you for two reason, first it is a major operation, that can have major side effects such as impotence and in my opinion more important incontinence. The negative effects of the surgery is age dependent. The older you are the less successful surgery will be. Also if the cancer has left the prostate with meatasize , you can be treated with drugs only and not be subjected to surgery.

    P.S. As a 70 year old single man I am very impressed with you having a beautiful 26 year old wife..kudo's to you....{does she have a younger sister that might be more age appropriate for me, lol)

  • Rakendra
    Rakendra Member Posts: 197 Member
    #4
    hopeful and optimistic said:

    Dear Swami Rakendra

    I am sorry for the situation that you are facing.

    Please post what the bone scan shows...good luck.

    It is a great thing that you are eating in a health way. Many of us have made changes to eat healthier. Heart healthy is prostate healthy.

    Large amounts of some supplements can promote prostate cancer. For example vitamin e and selinien . There were a couple of studies done that indicated this. The Select study was one of these.

    UCSF lists dietary advice. It is somewhat dated now, about 3 years old. There are also other sources, but this a great one to review.

    If you have cancer and it has metaisized, there are a lot of hormonal drugs out there that will treat. Lately there are a many new sofisticated drugs that have been develped that your medical onocologist can choose from. You need to make a medical oncologist the primary member of your medical team. Please find the best one that you can afford....as if your life is dependent on this, which it does.

    Prostate removal is not a good idea for you for two reason, first it is a major operation, that can have major side effects such as impotence and in my opinion more important incontinence. The negative effects of the surgery is age dependent. The older you are the less successful surgery will be. Also if the cancer has left the prostate with meatasize , you can be treated with drugs only and not be subjected to surgery.

    P.S. As a 70 year old single man I am very impressed with you having a beautiful 26 year old wife..kudo's to you....{does she have a younger sister that might be more age appropriate for me, lol)

    prostate

    I am so grateful for the reports.  This has come very suddenly and unexpected.  So, now I will share.  My Urologist seems very knowledgeable and competent. Here in the Phils I have found the doctors to be excellent and very caring and very cheap.  For instance, an office visit is $10 and the doc spends a lot of time with you.  There is no hurryup here, and often I am not even charged.   My Bone scan was $350.  Friday, I will get a biopsyon Friday and that will be $650, sedation included, for 12 sites.  A blood test for Creatinin and PSA was about $40.  I  am told that my year's medications, which will start after biopsy, will cost about $2 to $3 thousand annually.  That includes ADT and bone strengthening.  I would imagine that there will be another $1000 of miscellaneous.  The Philippino people are the most loving, kind people I have ever had the priviledge to live with.  A nurse here gets only about $200 -$ 250 a month for a six day week .  I had an MRI for my pinched nerve and that was about $275.  The therapy was $10 a visit.  You can live in Davao like a king with a monthly $1500 SS check.  I have one friend who does quite nicely on $500 a month, and there are others as well.  

    And, now to cut to the chase.  I picked up my bone scan and had a long talk with my Doc.  I was shocked to find that I have metastases in both shoulders, femurs, all the ribs, in the spine  and sacro-iliac.  Yuk!!!!!!!!  The amazing thing is that I have NO pain whatsoever.  The Doc  really has trouble beleiving this.  He always replies, "Well, some people have higher pain levels than others."  He definitely felt that I should be having a lot of pain with the current state of disease.  He was very upeat about my chances for survival for a few years or more, but made it clear that he needed to see the Magellan score.  I know that this is early days, and new information can change the prognosis.

          I am grateful that I have a lot of things going for me.  First, I have believed that meat is toxic and should not be eaten.  And it is a much higher spiritual choice not to eat your fellow animals and carry their corpse around in your stomach.  I also do not want the Karmic health penalties that eating meat will bring.  Next, I am extremely strong and my body resembles that of a much younger man, and I believe my immune system is also very strong and these factors are important.  I have been Manic Depressive for all of my life, but have learned to control depression thru meditation, had physical exercise, and with the help of a great pro host drug called Gerovital.  I have injected this for about 40 years, but one can also take pills.  I am also grateful for having found this board.  

      Now, about steroids.  Roids are testosterone and have a very bad reputation.  I have used them off and on for the last 4 years.  I have also read," Testosterone for Life" - a report by a Harvard Doc published in the N. E. Journal of Medicine.  His point is that men do not produce much tetosterone after 40 and need Testosterone therapy.  Now, I am not going to argue with anyone about Roids, as I am fully aware that there is much opposition.  However, I did not make my decision lightly and without much research.  And much of the research I found to be flawed.  As for me, I built a world class body thanks to the help of roids.  And I did it with a Dr supervsion and frequent blood tests.   When I married my wife, five years ago, I could hardly walk, walked stooped over and had trouble with stairs and walking and distance.  I found a gifted private trainer.  My very weak knees that had had five knee surgeries and pain, but that changed to where I could do a 50% hack squat with 450 lbs, and could do a leg press of 380.  My weight went from 174 to 204 pounds, and I do not walk stooped over like an old man.  I could do strict one arm rows with as 100 lb dumbell.  Now, I work out ultra light with a very advanced program by Dr. Ron Laura called Matrix.  

        About the women of the Phils and Davao.  My wife was raised on a small farm in poverty that we cannot imagine.  But she survived.  When we met, she had never had a date.  I have lived in SE Asia for more than 25 years, and I have never seen women of the quality that can be found in Davao. Old age here has no meaning in a relationship here.  There is much overpopulation here (it is heavily Catholic) and the girls have no future and no way out.  Not many farang (foreigners) come to the Phils, not like Thailand.  Not just women are incredibly wonderful, but the men a very loving as well.  We have no crime here.  The mayor has the Davao Death Squad which simply kills known crooks.  Here, if you are bad, you are told to leave.  If you stay and continue being bad, you will leave in a coffin.  

         I am more than willing to share any information about anything, especially SE Asia.  If anyone is looking for a wife, come to Davao. My  wife is like a movie star, and can now have her pick of many men. She is totally  a different person from when we met, because she is intelligent and has grown spiritually in an amazingly beautiful way.  Now, she, like myself, lives only in this moment - no future -no past.  She only wants to spend time with me, and I am the same way.  

         Now, I know this is a cancer board, and it is easy for me to go off topic.  I hope no one is offended.  Love, swami

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,346 Member
    #5
    Rakendra said:

    prostate

    I am so grateful for the reports.  This has come very suddenly and unexpected.  So, now I will share.  My Urologist seems very knowledgeable and competent. Here in the Phils I have found the doctors to be excellent and very caring and very cheap.  For instance, an office visit is $10 and the doc spends a lot of time with you.  There is no hurryup here, and often I am not even charged.   My Bone scan was $350.  Friday, I will get a biopsyon Friday and that will be $650, sedation included, for 12 sites.  A blood test for Creatinin and PSA was about $40.  I  am told that my year's medications, which will start after biopsy, will cost about $2 to $3 thousand annually.  That includes ADT and bone strengthening.  I would imagine that there will be another $1000 of miscellaneous.  The Philippino people are the most loving, kind people I have ever had the priviledge to live with.  A nurse here gets only about $200 -$ 250 a month for a six day week .  I had an MRI for my pinched nerve and that was about $275.  The therapy was $10 a visit.  You can live in Davao like a king with a monthly $1500 SS check.  I have one friend who does quite nicely on $500 a month, and there are others as well.  

    And, now to cut to the chase.  I picked up my bone scan and had a long talk with my Doc.  I was shocked to find that I have metastases in both shoulders, femurs, all the ribs, in the spine  and sacro-iliac.  Yuk!!!!!!!!  The amazing thing is that I have NO pain whatsoever.  The Doc  really has trouble beleiving this.  He always replies, "Well, some people have higher pain levels than others."  He definitely felt that I should be having a lot of pain with the current state of disease.  He was very upeat about my chances for survival for a few years or more, but made it clear that he needed to see the Magellan score.  I know that this is early days, and new information can change the prognosis.

          I am grateful that I have a lot of things going for me.  First, I have believed that meat is toxic and should not be eaten.  And it is a much higher spiritual choice not to eat your fellow animals and carry their corpse around in your stomach.  I also do not want the Karmic health penalties that eating meat will bring.  Next, I am extremely strong and my body resembles that of a much younger man, and I believe my immune system is also very strong and these factors are important.  I have been Manic Depressive for all of my life, but have learned to control depression thru meditation, had physical exercise, and with the help of a great pro host drug called Gerovital.  I have injected this for about 40 years, but one can also take pills.  I am also grateful for having found this board.  

      Now, about steroids.  Roids are testosterone and have a very bad reputation.  I have used them off and on for the last 4 years.  I have also read," Testosterone for Life" - a report by a Harvard Doc published in the N. E. Journal of Medicine.  His point is that men do not produce much tetosterone after 40 and need Testosterone therapy.  Now, I am not going to argue with anyone about Roids, as I am fully aware that there is much opposition.  However, I did not make my decision lightly and without much research.  And much of the research I found to be flawed.  As for me, I built a world class body thanks to the help of roids.  And I did it with a Dr supervsion and frequent blood tests.   When I married my wife, five years ago, I could hardly walk, walked stooped over and had trouble with stairs and walking and distance.  I found a gifted private trainer.  My very weak knees that had had five knee surgeries and pain, but that changed to where I could do a 50% hack squat with 450 lbs, and could do a leg press of 380.  My weight went from 174 to 204 pounds, and I do not walk stooped over like an old man.  I could do strict one arm rows with as 100 lb dumbell.  Now, I work out ultra light with a very advanced program by Dr. Ron Laura called Matrix.  

        About the women of the Phils and Davao.  My wife was raised on a small farm in poverty that we cannot imagine.  But she survived.  When we met, she had never had a date.  I have lived in SE Asia for more than 25 years, and I have never seen women of the quality that can be found in Davao. Old age here has no meaning in a relationship here.  There is much overpopulation here (it is heavily Catholic) and the girls have no future and no way out.  Not many farang (foreigners) come to the Phils, not like Thailand.  Not just women are incredibly wonderful, but the men a very loving as well.  We have no crime here.  The mayor has the Davao Death Squad which simply kills known crooks.  Here, if you are bad, you are told to leave.  If you stay and continue being bad, you will leave in a coffin.  

         I am more than willing to share any information about anything, especially SE Asia.  If anyone is looking for a wife, come to Davao. My  wife is like a movie star, and can now have her pick of many men. She is totally  a different person from when we met, because she is intelligent and has grown spiritually in an amazingly beautiful way.  Now, she, like myself, lives only in this moment - no future -no past.  She only wants to spend time with me, and I am the same way.  

         Now, I know this is a cancer board, and it is easy for me to go off topic.  I hope no one is offended.  Love, swami

    Dear Swami Rakendra

    I agree, the urologist that you have appears to be competent. When you receive the written results of your biopsy please let us know what the Pathologist reports.

    There is also a medical oncologist that specializes in hormone drugs for prostate cancer, who simply is better qualified to manage a case where hormone treatment is necessary than a urologist would be.

    At this time since you are getting baseline tests, I would get one for your testosterone level.

    Since I don't know anything about Gerovital I will not comment about this now, but I may comment after I do some research.

    Although I did not read this book, I have heard about it

     Testosterone for Life by Abraham Morgenthaler, M.D., Associate Clinical Professor, Harvard Medical School. Published by McGraw Hill. Paper back, 196 pages, pages 115 - 174 deal with Testosterone and PCa in great detail. List price: $16.95

    A book that I recommend for anyone with this beast is

    . "A Primer on Prostate Cancer: The Empowered Patient's Guide" by Stephen B. Strum, M.D. and Donna L. Pogliano (2nd Edition, 2005 - Paperback)

    Anothr that may be appropriate for you is

    Beating Prostate Cancer (Hormonal Therapy & Diet, 1) (Hormonal Therapy & Diet, 1) by Dr. Charles Snuffy Myers (2007)

     

     

     

    There may be an updated version of this Myers book, I'm not sure, but at any rate I recommend the book to you.

     

    Here is the amazon site

     

    www.amazon.com.  Page that opens shows the top 20 best selling books on the subject.

    Swami.....I am very far from being an expert on treatment for advanced cases since mine is not advanced and I spend most of my time on this, but many advanced cases are treated by reducing testosterone levels to castration levels to inhibit progession.

    Swami , I know that your life has been dedicated to developing muscle with use of various testosterone enhancements, however in advanced cases this iis consideed counter productive. Anyway, see a medical oncologist who iwill be the expert on this subject.

    Good luck 

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,346 Member
    #6
    hopeful and optimistic said:

    Dear Swami Rakendra

    I agree, the urologist that you have appears to be competent. When you receive the written results of your biopsy please let us know what the Pathologist reports.

    There is also a medical oncologist that specializes in hormone drugs for prostate cancer, who simply is better qualified to manage a case where hormone treatment is necessary than a urologist would be.

    At this time since you are getting baseline tests, I would get one for your testosterone level.

    Since I don't know anything about Gerovital I will not comment about this now, but I may comment after I do some research.

    Although I did not read this book, I have heard about it

     Testosterone for Life by Abraham Morgenthaler, M.D., Associate Clinical Professor, Harvard Medical School. Published by McGraw Hill. Paper back, 196 pages, pages 115 - 174 deal with Testosterone and PCa in great detail. List price: $16.95

    A book that I recommend for anyone with this beast is

    . "A Primer on Prostate Cancer: The Empowered Patient's Guide" by Stephen B. Strum, M.D. and Donna L. Pogliano (2nd Edition, 2005 - Paperback)

    Anothr that may be appropriate for you is

    Beating Prostate Cancer (Hormonal Therapy & Diet, 1) (Hormonal Therapy & Diet, 1) by Dr. Charles Snuffy Myers (2007)

     

     

     

    There may be an updated version of this Myers book, I'm not sure, but at any rate I recommend the book to you.

     

    Here is the amazon site

     

    www.amazon.com.  Page that opens shows the top 20 best selling books on the subject.

    Swami.....I am very far from being an expert on treatment for advanced cases since mine is not advanced and I spend most of my time on this, but many advanced cases are treated by reducing testosterone levels to castration levels to inhibit progession.

    Swami , I know that your life has been dedicated to developing muscle with use of various testosterone enhancements, however in advanced cases this iis consideed counter productive. Anyway, see a medical oncologist who iwill be the expert on this subject.

    Good luck 

    addition

    some of the writting was goobled iabove

    I just want to ad that there may be an updated version of the Myers book published in 2007.

    By the way I agree with eating healthy and exercising , keeping our bodies in shape to fight this disease and general well being.

    My diet is mainly a vegetarium; my diet was very good previously in the last year or two my blood numbers improved a lot with lower choleserol levels, and weight loss.

    Some books are the china study by t. colin Cambell, eat to live by joel Furman, m.d and a dvd ForksoverKnives that support this.

    Another book just written that I have not yet read is

    Eating Your Way to Better Health-The Prostate Forum Nutrition Guide by Charles E. (Snuffy) Myers, Jr., M.D. Sara Sgarlat Steck, R.T. and Rose Sgarlat Myers, PT., Ph.D. List Price:$25.00

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,701 Member
    #7
    Think Positively

    Rakendra

    In another thread on biopsy experiences you posted that you are waiting for the results of the 12 cores taken from your prostate.
    I assume that your doctor’s diagnosis for PCa is based on his experience in dealing with similar cases and for the chronology of the PSA tests. The spots shown on the bone scan may be spread of cancer but without a biopsy no one can tell yet that you got metastatic prostate cancer. In any case, you commented that you are taking tamsulosin (Flomax) and finasteride (Proscar) and I think that you have sort of urination problems probably a cause of prostate enlargement. That would cause part of your high PSA result.

    Thinking negatively, one may assume that wide spread PCa exist producing lots of serum PSA. That with the results of the scan would set your case on stage IV in a very advanced form.
    This is a bad diagnosis but it does not mean that you could not survive 5 more years enjoying your times with your young wife at the beautiful Mindanao.

    The Gleason score of 8 or 9 you commented would not be important if in fact you were diagnosed with an advanced metastatic case. It would not set you in a worse or better position. You would need to focus on a treatment that better could control the metastases providing the longest time with quality of life.

    Cure for wide spread metastasized cancer is difficult. The only drug that has shown success in killing PCa in bone is Alpharadin, which may not be available in the Philippines yet. Nevertheless, if interested in the future you could try to discuss with your oncologist about the possibility for you to get involved in a clinical trial in USA so that you would manage to get the drug.

    The medical care in the Philippines is very much linked to the USA aid. Most doctors (in all fields) have studied and practiced for a short period in the United States so that they belong to medical groups such as MSKCC and JH. They got the connections and they may inquire through their fellowships at those facilities about the trials.
     I do not know in which hospital you would be looked for but at least St Lucks in Manila got links with MSKCC (New York). Another place to look for trials is in Singapore’s Johns Hopkins.

    Guys with similar status are typically recommended hormonal therapy with a combination of drugs and/or orchiectomy. The main purposes will be to lower the androgens circulating in the body that feeds the cancer. Such condition (hypogonadism) causes symptoms that may be nasty. However, once the medication is stopped, the testosterone returns to normal levels. I would advise you to get a T test now so that you may better evaluate the efficacy of the hormonal treatment if that would become your way.
    You would also need to take bisphosphonates to control bone loss. The typical in metastatic cases is Zometa. I recommend you to wait for a final conclusion and then to discuss the above with your doctor and get second opinions wherever possible.

    The survivor Hopeful above has provided you with good information on nutrition. You will need to be careful about foods or supplements that may interact with the medications to treat your case. Being fit is a big step forward to counter the side effects from treatment.

    I know well about the sympathy of the Filipino and I think that I can image how fortunate you feel for being in Davao. My last assignment in Asia was in Cagayan de Oro, building the local container Terminal.

    Wishing you luck in your journey.

    VGama  Wink

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