UK doctors prescribing....placebo's

Thmidis simply gps recommending unproven other counter remedies like probiotics and complementary medicines for which there may be insufficient evidence to be confident they work in conditions that patients present with. For example patients with diarrhoea illnesses are often recommended probiotics even thought the evidence is not yet conclusive of an effect or herbal remedies for minor ailments for which we have littélysées to offer eg pmt, tiredness, chronic aches and pains etc.

It is not giving new medicines that aren't yettested as a way of testing them!

Steve

manwithnoname said:

Of course

they are giving stuff they believe has value to patients who want something...

However there is a difference between giving a saltwater injection or sugar pill (direct placebo's) or probiotic's or herbal remedies which may be a placebo or which might actually have a biologic effect.

Im just pleased they aren't saying 'sorry there is nothing I can give you that is proven to work.....next!'

LOL salt water has been censored...wonder why.

together........censored!!!!! (same reason i can't cite anything from the site marketwatch)

The New Scientist.   It had an article a while back about the placebo effect that I found interesting...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17993-placebo-effect-caught-in-the-act-in-spinal-nerves.html

coloCan said:

biggest and deadliest experiment foisted on Americans

is genetically modified foods.....EDUCATE YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!

A recent-yesterday-report came out lauding soy for CRC,liver and another cancer yet most soy produced in US is GMOed.....Did researchers take that into account? What type of soy was used? Does it matter?

When Docotors or nutritionists talk about soy, they are talking about Edamame or Real Tofu.  We can get both in the USA but one has to read the labels. Real Tofu is not what most Tofu is in the USA.

We have Soy derivatives in a lot of our food.  Soy MSG, Lecithin, fat, oil, Natural Flavor, etc...   There are over 60 names for Soy additives in the USA.   My wife is very allergic to soy.  We can not buy prepackaged food in the USA because most of it has soy in it. We can not buy a seasoned meat, ham, lunch meat because most have soy in them. If we can read the package then we can decide.  Many companies are now adding soy to Milk, and Butter!  We have to read all packages or she gets sick.

Many people have a toxcity to Soy. It is in everything they eat and they have reached their limit. My indigestion went away after avoiding all soy. I thought it was due to the cancer and chemo, nope Soy.

A great Blog and Book:  The Hidden Dangers of Soy    - She explains her allergy to soy and then many other's issues with soy.  How to avoid Soy, and which companies to write to to stop Soy in all of our foods!

Best Always,  mike 

thxmiker said:

When Docotors or

When Docotors or nutritionists talk about soy, they are talking about Edamame or Real Tofu.  We can get both in the USA but one has to read the labels. Real Tofu is not what most Tofu is in the USA.

 

We have Soy derivatives in a lot of our food.  Soy MSG, Lecithin, fat, oil, Natural Flavor, etc...   There are over 60 names for Soy additives in the USA.   My wife is very allergic to soy.  We can not buy prepackaged food in the USA because most of it has soy in it. We can not buy a seasoned meat, ham, lunch meat because most have soy in them. If we can read the package then we can decide.  Many companies are now adding soy to Milk, and Butter!  We have to read all packages or she gets sick.

 

Many people have a toxcity to Soy. It is in everything they eat and they have reached their limit. My indigestion went away after avoiding all soy. I thought it was due to the cancer and chemo, nope Soy.

 

A great Blog and Book:  The Hidden Dangers of Soy    - She explains her allergy to soy and then many other's issues with soy.  How to avoid Soy, and which companies to write to to stop Soy in all of our foods!

Best Always,  mike 

I read an EXCELLENT book about the dangers of SOY and how a high percentage of it was GM (genetically modified). I got it from the library over a year ago and now I can't remember the name of the book. It also talked allot about the big companies who and the FDA who have their hands in the pockets of these large companies. Must try to remember the name of the book. 

Here in the states they don't require cmpanies to mark their lables GM. same with the anitbiotics in milk. I like that about England and Europe, their labeling is much more comsumer friendly.

I eat as much organic as I can. My friends are quick to point out that I'm the one with cancer so they question organic foods. 

Just my rambling here. Probably not adding much to the thread, but its keeping my mind busy as I await the home health nurse to come and disconnect me from my pump. 

manwithnoname said:

Donna

This is about familiy doctors giving placebos not people on clinical trials, but your perspective on trials and placebo is interesting, I was sure they did placebo sometimes.

I am the first to admit it. I smoke and have done so for 47 years. Each doctor that I have visited over the years has asked me if I would like to quit. At this time(may someday change), my answer is no.

This may be irrelevant but a long time before any of us heard the name "Chantix", a doctor gave me some samples he had just received from the departing pharmacy representative(the guy you always see in the waiting area with the big black case). He told me these would help me stop smoking. I didn't take the pills. In this particular case, I doubt he knew much more about them than I did, including the side effects which would become evident with further testing.  I personally would not want to take a pill that could cause heart trouble, suicidal tendencies, nausea, etc. unless it was absolutely necessary.

So, I guess I'm a little leery of these samples.

And Donna, I am now confused, also. Every new drug trial that I've seen has mentioned a percentage of patients receiving a placebo.

Luv,

Wolfen

manwithnoname said:

Some of you might not of heard

of the Krebiozen story;

 

Many doctors know the story of ''Mr. Wright,'' who was found to have cancer and in 1957 was given only days to live. Hospitalized in Long Beach, Calif., with tumors the size of oranges, he heard that scientists had discovered a horse serum, Krebiozen, that appeared to be effective against cancer. He begged to receive it.

His physician, Dr. Philip West, finally agreed and gave Mr. Wright an injection on a Friday afternoon. The following Monday, the astonished doctor found his patient out of his ''death bed,'' joking with the nurses. The tumors, the doctor wrote later, ''had melted like snowballs on a hot stove.''

Two months later, Mr. Wright read medical reports that the horse serum was a quack remedy. He suffered an immediate relapse. ''Don't believe what you read in the papers,'' the doctor told Mr. Wright. Then he injected him with what he said was ''a new super-refined double strength'' version of the drug. Actually, it was water, but again, the tumor masses melted.

Mr. Wright was ''the picture of health'' for another two months -- until he read a definitive report stating that Krebiozen was worthless.... He died two days later.

 

But it certainly gives you things to think about, doesn't it?

Luv,

Wolfen

steved said:

Gps unlikely to prescribe sugar tablets

Please be reassured that gps in the uk are unlikely to prescribe sugar tablets as it is not considered ethical by pretty much all. However if you ask them the question do you suggest people take sugar tablets Or tablets that are not proven to be effective in their ailment pretty much all will say 'yes' and damn good too, or eLse they would have little to offer the majority of people who present. 

They are not experimenting on patients but all docs are aware of the significance of the placebo effect and the fact that there is much we don't know about treatments that lie outside the standard formulary.

Please stay away from shock headlines and impacting stories that verge on urban legends- mwnn you are better and more intelligent than that.

Steve

Thank you for the clarification. In some instances, not all, perhaps our medical system is a little more broken than yours. However, I don't understand the logic of giving a patient something that is not effective for their ailment, unless it's for psychological reasons. To me, it's dishonest.

And I don't mean to bash all in your profession. It's just that I've run into a few questionable practioners over the years.

Luv,

Wolfen