Why I love Thomas, The Ketogenic Diet hits the headlines, even Mercola at last is promoting it
Comments
-
Good grief…manwithnoname said:No John the
answer is not 'simple'...
"We have demonstrated that in human and mouse cancer cell lines, activated Akt directs a direct conversion of metabolic control to aerobic glycolysis (the Warburg effect). This conversion addicts cells to glucose and renders them sensitive to any agent that inhibits glucose uptake or glucose catabolism"
Craig B. Thompson, MD CEO MSKCC
"Watson explained that this demonstrates how scientists can work toward stopping cancer by decreasing insulin levels and glycolysis with this diabetes treatment."
Professor James Watson Nobel prize winner.
"So, if you want to help cancer cells take over, just withhold needed glucose from your diet!"... John23
Are you saying then to KILL cancer just eat sugar?
No one is saying stopping sugar "cures" cancer...just to be absolutley clear.
Re:
“Are you saying then to KILL cancer just eat sugar?”
No, I didn’t say that. You quoted what I said:
“So, if you want to help cancer cells take over, just withhold needed glucose from your diet!”
Our body needs as much glucose as it can use, to provide the energy it needs for survival. During times of stress or illness, our body requires more glucose, not less. No, not donuts and chocolate covered cherries, but good food that contains glucose.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000010000000000000000-4.html
When one avoids providing the body of what it needs to survive, the body will suffer. Meanwhile, the cancer cells will take what they need, growing and festering inside a body that is intentionally being depleted of what it needs for it’s survival.
I much prefer to work –with- mother nature, than fight against her,
(some related reading material)
http://www.cancer.gov/ncicancerbulletin/110111/page5
http://www.hydrazinesulfate.org/
Cancer is not a complicated life-form; anything can kill a cancer cell. The problem is in the targeting of the cancer cell, not in the devices or chemicals used to kill it.The best, most natural way to target and destroy the cancer cell, is with our own immune system, but we do not help our immune system do that by withholding what it needs and requires for it’s own survival. (Yes…… it is that simple.)
Common sense should always prevail, not recited industrial hype.
I sincerely wish everyone the very best of health!
John
0 -
Hmm..manwithnoname said:Hi Anna
there seems to be a confusion on sugar causing cancer and sugar fueling cancer. I don't believe sugar causes cancer.
The idea of sugar (glucose) fueling cancer seems to me proven beyond doubt.
And if you are in the last months of your life,...have the cookie....
Re:
“The idea of sugar (glucose) fueling cancer seems to me proven beyond doubt.”
So to save gasoline consumption with a vehicle that’s running poorly, don’t continue to put gas in the tank?
Won’t that cause the vehicle to eventually run out of gas where you least expect to?
Is the highway of life really that confusing? Should it be?
Keep your sense of humor, it’s the least expensive way to stay healthy!
My best,
John
0 -
MaybeJohn23 said:Hmm..
Re:
“The idea of sugar (glucose) fueling cancer seems to me proven beyond doubt.”
So to save gasoline consumption with a vehicle that’s running poorly, don’t continue to put gas in the tank?
Won’t that cause the vehicle to eventually run out of gas where you least expect to?
Is the highway of life really that confusing? Should it be?
Keep your sense of humor, it’s the least expensive way to stay healthy!
My best,
John
I can let Harvard convince you, but probably not eh?
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/11/insulin-and-colon-cancer-linked/
TBH it's quite clear to me, and you won't be converting me with your opinion. Lets leave it at that.
I have a great sense of humour and as dark as coal.
"Recent studies have shown that colorectal cancer survivors whose diet and activity patterns lead to excess amounts of insulin in the blood have a higher risk of cancer recurrence and death from the disease. High insulin levels can be produced by eating too many starchy and sugar-laden foods"
It's also funny we are having the same argument on 2 different forums at the same time.
0 -
Ditto?manwithnoname said:Maybe
I can let Harvard convince you, but probably not eh?
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/11/insulin-and-colon-cancer-linked/
TBH it's quite clear to me, and you won't be converting me with your opinion. Lets leave it at that.
I have a great sense of humour and as dark as coal.
"Recent studies have shown that colorectal cancer survivors whose diet and activity patterns lead to excess amounts of insulin in the blood have a higher risk of cancer recurrence and death from the disease. High insulin levels can be produced by eating too many starchy and sugar-laden foods"
It's also funny we are having the same argument on 2 different forums at the same time.
“Although the results point to a potential hazard of a high-carbohydrate diet for colon cancer patients, the take-home message is not a conclusive “Eat less sugar,”
said lead author Jeffrey Meyerhardt, associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School (HMS). “Our study certainly supports the idea that diet can impact the progression of colon cancer, and that patients and their doctors should consider this when making post-treatment plans.
But further research is needed to confirm our findings.”
(From: http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/11/insulin-and-colon-cancer-linked/)
So unconfirmed findings are the rule? We should lead our lives and hope for survival based on hypotheticals?
A good, well-rounded diet is something I have always believed in (as well as most of the medical world); our body was designed to be fueled by different foodstuff, and the bulk of it will contain nutrients, vitamins and items that our body’s processing needs for it’s survival.
I do not believe that fasting, or eliminating (natural) foods from the diet based on some hypothetical notion, is a healthy thing to do. Our body needs an assortment of foodstuff: meats, vegetables, fruit, fish, foul, etc., to survive. Many foods provide an abundance of glucose, and glucose is what our cells need to survive. We should not be attempting to eliminate what our body requires for survival.
Healthy thoughts and wishes,
John
0 -
I think the idea is toJohn23 said:Ditto?
“Although the results point to a potential hazard of a high-carbohydrate diet for colon cancer patients, the take-home message is not a conclusive “Eat less sugar,”
said lead author Jeffrey Meyerhardt, associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School (HMS). “Our study certainly supports the idea that diet can impact the progression of colon cancer, and that patients and their doctors should consider this when making post-treatment plans.
But further research is needed to confirm our findings.”
(From: http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/11/insulin-and-colon-cancer-linked/)
So unconfirmed findings are the rule? We should lead our lives and hope for survival based on hypotheticals?
A good, well-rounded diet is something I have always believed in (as well as most of the medical world); our body was designed to be fueled by different foodstuff, and the bulk of it will contain nutrients, vitamins and items that our body’s processing needs for it’s survival.
I do not believe that fasting, or eliminating (natural) foods from the diet based on some hypothetical notion, is a healthy thing to do. Our body needs an assortment of foodstuff: meats, vegetables, fruit, fish, foul, etc., to survive. Many foods provide an abundance of glucose, and glucose is what our cells need to survive. We should not be attempting to eliminate what our body requires for survival.
Healthy thoughts and wishes,
John
I think the idea is to eliminate sugar or limit is such as sugar laden soft drinks candy deserts which offer nothing but empty calories. Also processed simple cabs such as white bread white pasta an white rice which again offers little or no nutritional value that our bodies can benefit from. I make I watch the number of carbs I eat per meal and that they are whole grain.
0 -
SugarJohn23 said:Ditto?
“Although the results point to a potential hazard of a high-carbohydrate diet for colon cancer patients, the take-home message is not a conclusive “Eat less sugar,”
said lead author Jeffrey Meyerhardt, associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School (HMS). “Our study certainly supports the idea that diet can impact the progression of colon cancer, and that patients and their doctors should consider this when making post-treatment plans.
But further research is needed to confirm our findings.”
(From: http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/11/insulin-and-colon-cancer-linked/)
So unconfirmed findings are the rule? We should lead our lives and hope for survival based on hypotheticals?
A good, well-rounded diet is something I have always believed in (as well as most of the medical world); our body was designed to be fueled by different foodstuff, and the bulk of it will contain nutrients, vitamins and items that our body’s processing needs for it’s survival.
I do not believe that fasting, or eliminating (natural) foods from the diet based on some hypothetical notion, is a healthy thing to do. Our body needs an assortment of foodstuff: meats, vegetables, fruit, fish, foul, etc., to survive. Many foods provide an abundance of glucose, and glucose is what our cells need to survive. We should not be attempting to eliminate what our body requires for survival.
Healthy thoughts and wishes,
John
and most processed food are NOT natural John
you want to pick and choose from that study? fine.
"Meyerhardt and his colleagues found that those with a typical “Western” diet — marked by high intakes of meat, fat, refined grains, and sugar desserts — were three times more likely to have a cancer recurrence than those whose diets were least Western"
"further research is needed", yes if this were the ONLY study linking these...but it ain't...
All Im doing is pointing out what the latest research has found, y'all can take it or leave it.
"We should lead our lives and hope for survival based on hypotheticals?" most stuff about TCM is not double blind randomised placebo controlled is it John? but it didn't stop you taking a gamble.
0 -
i just had a piece of chocolate
but it was dark and 85%.
the wine glass is 50% full
no the wine glass is 50% empty.
we will never agree on the level , it depends on our persepctive.
we are friends, lets agree to disagree as always happens amongst passionate independent thinkers.
not many sheep in this paddock.
i say lets just have a drink.
hugs,
pete
ps the wine glass is full of water, alas. a year of ned and i will have a glass of red and not before. next week we can discuss alcohol and the liver and the p53 suppressor gene and ethanol, or then again maybe not.
pps do whatever you want, listen to whoever you want and enjoy your life. cheers.
the lovely waitress tonight said would you like some sugar with your coffee, i said nothankyou i am sweet enough already!
pps seriously consider this, this discussion is happening in the bar at the asco conference, some onc for, some onc against.
if you like to gamble and don't have a sweet tooth then its simple, otherwise, i say goto the dentist and have the sweet tooth extracted.
you can always put the tooth back after you have defeated cancer.! i am glad your TCM gamble worked John, let us gamble on sugar in peace.
0 -
LOL.pete43lost_at_sea said:i just had a piece of chocolate
but it was dark and 85%.
the wine glass is 50% full
no the wine glass is 50% empty.
we will never agree on the level , it depends on our persepctive.
we are friends, lets agree to disagree as always happens amongst passionate independent thinkers.
not many sheep in this paddock.
i say lets just have a drink.
hugs,
pete
ps the wine glass is full of water, alas. a year of ned and i will have a glass of red and not before. next week we can discuss alcohol and the liver and the p53 suppressor gene and ethanol, or then again maybe not.
pps do whatever you want, listen to whoever you want and enjoy your life. cheers.
the lovely waitress tonight said would you like some sugar with your coffee, i said nothankyou i am sweet enough already!
pps seriously consider this, this discussion is happening in the bar at the asco conference, some onc for, some onc against.
if you like to gamble and don't have a sweet tooth then its simple, otherwise, i say goto the dentist and have the sweet tooth extracted.
you can always put the tooth back after you have defeated cancer.! i am glad your TCM gamble worked John, let us gamble on sugar in peace.
There were some pretty
LOL.
There were some pretty sweet responses
here.0 -
i am glad to have some other lions as friendsSundanceh said:I'm already The Lion:)
i get tempted to eat the sheep, its hard being a vegan lion.
hugs,
pete
ps you stick to your side of the river the conventional side and i will stick to the non convnetional side.
we can be friends across the river, one day we have to change sides, who knows. roar!
google hotel for lions
0 -
I had no choice
For four of the months I was in treatment, I was unable to eat anything. Everything I tried to eat came back up. The clinical dietitian who was working with me was trying desperately to get some kind of nutrition into my body. I lost 50 pounds and became dehydrated many times. The only thing that I was able to tolerate was Ensure Plus. I knew it had sugar in it but it also had the nutrients my body needed to fight the cancer and not starve to death while going through chemo. Once I started drinking that, I was able to maintain my weight and not lose more. I didn't have a choice and would do it again if I had to (hopefully, it won't happen again).
0 -
My Cheesy Opinion......Deena11 said:I had no choice
For four of the months I was in treatment, I was unable to eat anything. Everything I tried to eat came back up. The clinical dietitian who was working with me was trying desperately to get some kind of nutrition into my body. I lost 50 pounds and became dehydrated many times. The only thing that I was able to tolerate was Ensure Plus. I knew it had sugar in it but it also had the nutrients my body needed to fight the cancer and not starve to death while going through chemo. Once I started drinking that, I was able to maintain my weight and not lose more. I didn't have a choice and would do it again if I had to (hopefully, it won't happen again).
I applaud Pete for being soooo proactive and soooo willing to try new things to help himself. It really IS nice that he shares everything with us and like someone said here...if you see the title of the post by him or anyone and you do not like it, just move on without opening it......
Anyway, the debate about sugar and no sugar or carbs and no carbs, etc...
I truly believe that everyone handles it different. I really think that you could take 2 people with stage 4 colon cancer, same type of resection, same chemo, cancer in the same amount of lymph nodes, same amount, sizes, and spots on liver ........same bloodwork. Same everything....same age....they are the same sex too!
These 2 people eat the same exact thing for breakfast, lunch and dinner every single day and they each each 5 dunuts in the evening and go to bed. They both do the same exercise program and they both sleep 8 hours and they both work all day on the computer. They have identical lives!! They do this for a year straight.
How much ya want to bet they each have a different outcome? Everyone's body/immune system, dna is just sooooo different. Maybe that's why we can just try, try, try different things to see what works the best for us or our loved ones. It's so nice to also support everyone here no matter what they believe in
Prayers for everyone.....
0 -
sorry dblDeena11 said:I had no choice
For four of the months I was in treatment, I was unable to eat anything. Everything I tried to eat came back up. The clinical dietitian who was working with me was trying desperately to get some kind of nutrition into my body. I lost 50 pounds and became dehydrated many times. The only thing that I was able to tolerate was Ensure Plus. I knew it had sugar in it but it also had the nutrients my body needed to fight the cancer and not starve to death while going through chemo. Once I started drinking that, I was able to maintain my weight and not lose more. I didn't have a choice and would do it again if I had to (hopefully, it won't happen again).
sorry, dbl post
0 -
Moving onSo Worried said:My Cheesy Opinion......
I applaud Pete for being soooo proactive and soooo willing to try new things to help himself. It really IS nice that he shares everything with us and like someone said here...if you see the title of the post by him or anyone and you do not like it, just move on without opening it......
Anyway, the debate about sugar and no sugar or carbs and no carbs, etc...
I truly believe that everyone handles it different. I really think that you could take 2 people with stage 4 colon cancer, same type of resection, same chemo, cancer in the same amount of lymph nodes, same amount, sizes, and spots on liver ........same bloodwork. Same everything....same age....they are the same sex too!
These 2 people eat the same exact thing for breakfast, lunch and dinner every single day and they each each 5 dunuts in the evening and go to bed. They both do the same exercise program and they both sleep 8 hours and they both work all day on the computer. They have identical lives!! They do this for a year straight.
How much ya want to bet they each have a different outcome? Everyone's body/immune system, dna is just sooooo different. Maybe that's why we can just try, try, try different things to see what works the best for us or our loved ones. It's so nice to also support everyone here no matter what they believe in
Prayers for everyone.....
When someone posts something as fact which is in doubt still, then one cannot just close their eyes to it and "move on", disinformation can hurt if it is not spoken up about, putting the blinders on and moving over to a topic that is correct or one you agree with, and ignoring the false or misleading information can cause others to believe EVERYONE is in accordance to what has been said because no one objected, therefore, the old "Hey don't look here if you don't like what I post" is something that should not and will not happen. You cannot support disinformation, cannot support the downing of my nation (I can't at least) or my oncologist, or call me a sheep without some sort of feedback.
Winter Marie
0 -
Pardon me?So Worried said:sorry dbl
sorry, dbl post
Why are you calling the post or any post disinformation?
0 -
.So Worried said:sorry dbl
sorry, dbl post
dbl , sorry all..it keeps doing that - when i hit submit just once!
0 -
Ay yupSo Worried said:.
dbl , sorry all..it keeps doing that - when i hit submit just once!
trouble at mill...
well this why I didn't post the original info here, turned into something nasty (yet again)
If the study from Harvard/Faber doesn't convince you then fine have your cake and eat it.
If you are on the fence, research more on sugar/glucose cancer relationship.
If you are on chemo and your Onc. says 'more calories needed' have them (although I would go for protein shake personally)
If you believe refined sugar is natural and harmless you are entitled to that belief.
"The study involved 1,011 stage III colon cancer patients who had undergone surgery."
"They found that participants with the highest dietary levels of glycemic load and carbohydrate intake had an 80 percent increased risk of colon cancer recurrence or death compared with those who had the lowest levels"
If your wating for your Onc. to confirm the findings above, it will take around 5 years for others to duplicate and publish.
It's not just one study though there are many more.
0 -
I know when I first startedannalexandria said:I lived off milk shakes post-surgery.
Nothing tasted very good and I had a lot of nausea. My husband made them with full-fat ice cream and milk, and fresh fruit (and "lots of love", as he would say). I was down to a size 2 at that point. Let's just say that now, 3 1/2 years later, I am still a size 2...plus 10. You can add protein powder to shakes too. I was able to eat those with no trouble, and they gave me a little boost of much needed energy. AA
I know when I first started chemo, I had to eat what I wanted to eat. If a donut sounded good, I had to have a donut. I have now leveled off (7th tx done) and not having such cravings, but if I hadn't eaten what/when I wanted, I would never have put back on the 13-15 pounds I lost in the hospital. My first chemo tx I was 101 lbs. I panicked!
Judy
0 -
AT least once or twice or a hundred timesSo Worried said:Pardon me?
Why are you calling the post or any post disinformation?
There has been disinformation, a purple juice that will cure you, a diet alone that will cure you, just juicing will cure you (please note I said JUST juicing, not juicing in addition to other things)It is up to you to choose which one of the many YEARS this forum has been around what disinformation post you wish to go back on. I'm speaking in generalities, not discussing this original post, we've been off subject for quite a few posts now on THIS post, so going back to it seems eons ago by now). We are fallible not infallible, what may have been main stream fact at one time, may now be something that doesn't work, they come up with new chemos, new surgeries etc. Do you see? Most disinformation isn't done on purpose here, it just happens sometimes, or sometimes it's just misinformation perhaps being a better word. And sometimes we have differences of opinions, but that doesn't mean we need to keep them to ourselves, discourse, when done civilly it good.
Winter Marie
0 -
You can probably find research to support any point of view;manwithnoname said:Ay yup
trouble at mill...
well this why I didn't post the original info here, turned into something nasty (yet again)
If the study from Harvard/Faber doesn't convince you then fine have your cake and eat it.
If you are on the fence, research more on sugar/glucose cancer relationship.
If you are on chemo and your Onc. says 'more calories needed' have them (although I would go for protein shake personally)
If you believe refined sugar is natural and harmless you are entitled to that belief.
"The study involved 1,011 stage III colon cancer patients who had undergone surgery."
"They found that participants with the highest dietary levels of glycemic load and carbohydrate intake had an 80 percent increased risk of colon cancer recurrence or death compared with those who had the lowest levels"
If your wating for your Onc. to confirm the findings above, it will take around 5 years for others to duplicate and publish.
It's not just one study though there are many more.
Question is:how do you determine credibility of source? Has what you have read/learned since DX changed anything in your life
www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/257558.php
www.healthcanal.com/cancers/36926-Tip-Sheet-March-Colorectal-Cancer-Awareness-Month.html
0 -
A healthy debate
Have just spent a good chunk of mooring ng reading the above and the links as seems ainteresting thread. My own opinion is that diet is undoubtably linked to colorectal cancer but threlationships is complex and sugar certainly isn't the be all and end all of the cause or cure.Personally I choose to follow a basic balanced diet and include sugar as I wish but respect those whochoose differently. Will leave my opinion there.
As for the debate above, that is what this board is about: healthy sharing of informationand diverse opinion. No one has the right to stifle other opinions in any thread as long as they are expressed respectfully. Balanced information is what allows people to make their own informed decisions. Long may this continue here but with ahealthy dose of polite respect for all. The key is to share information and allow others to decide on it not to try and convert each other.
Healthy debate and support is core tthesis forum. Long may it continue,
Steve
0
Discussion Boards
- All Discussion Boards
- 6 CSN Information
- 6 Welcome to CSN
- 121.8K Cancer specific
- 2.8K Anal Cancer
- 446 Bladder Cancer
- 309 Bone Cancers
- 1.6K Brain Cancer
- 28.5K Breast Cancer
- 397 Childhood Cancers
- 27.9K Colorectal Cancer
- 4.6K Esophageal Cancer
- 1.2K Gynecological Cancers (other than ovarian and uterine)
- 13K Head and Neck Cancer
- 6.4K Kidney Cancer
- 671 Leukemia
- 792 Liver Cancer
- 4.1K Lung Cancer
- 5.1K Lymphoma (Hodgkin and Non-Hodgkin)
- 237 Multiple Myeloma
- 7.1K Ovarian Cancer
- 61 Pancreatic Cancer
- 487 Peritoneal Cancer
- 5.5K Prostate Cancer
- 1.2K Rare and Other Cancers
- 539 Sarcoma
- 730 Skin Cancer
- 653 Stomach Cancer
- 191 Testicular Cancer
- 1.5K Thyroid Cancer
- 5.8K Uterine/Endometrial Cancer
- 6.3K Lifestyle Discussion Boards