Vitamins 'blocking cancer treatment'

abackhou
abackhou Member Posts: 77 Member
in Colorectal Cancer #1

Interesting article on taking vitamins whilst under chemotherapy treatment:

 

http://www.watoday.com.au/world/vitamins-blocking-cancer-treatment-20130109-2cfjs.html

 

 

Comments

  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    #2
    A somewhat different view,tho author acknowledges not

    having read Dr Watson's article,at www.foodconsumer.org

     

    while another version of original post,at:www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/254711.php

     

    (still don't understand how linkin blue appeared for first but not second article referenced here as i typed them the same way)

     

  • thxmiker
    thxmiker Member Posts: 1,278 Member
    #3
    Thanks for sharing the article!

    This is what Dr. Lenz spoke to me about. To many antioxidents can feed certain cancers.  Also High Sugar levels, and Red Meat enzymes can facilitate certain cancers to grow.  Unfortunately, I have a type of cancer that will restrict me from eating high sugars, red meat, andover doing the antioxidents. He also sugested to stay off of citrus during chemo. He also told me if I wanted a glass of Orange juice do so. If I wanted to have berries do so. Just do not make a diet of berries.

     

    Dr. Lenz sugested to me Vit B, D, Milk thistle (helps liver function), and Probiotics. (helps digestion and replacing good flora in the digestive tract.)

     

    Best Always, mike

     

    PS  Thanks for sharing the article!

  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
    #4
    media hyped?

    Any broad "antioxidant/vitamin" statement is incorrect in the absolute sense.  It is hard to say with limited sample and data whether a vitamin treated person's initial sample is in a protected state, or not, without an untreated sample for control.  I initially found a lab paper showing that vitamin C and K2 combined were impressively deadly for some colon cancer cells in a test tube, a day or two after my wife's diagnosis, as well as successful human trials with liver cancer.  So we added K2 to her "neoadjuvant" mix, two weeks presurgery. 

    Perhaps my wife's cancer is not sufficiently advanced, although she has some bad biomarker types. What I will say is that certain chemo-vitamin combinations appeared to be best for killing her cancer cells in the lab, bar none.  This appears to be borne out with her real life data too, due to data from several incidents. Also her UFT form of 5FU-LV remains, with selected vitamins and antioxidants, potent long after most people's mCRC tumors would become resistant to 5FU-LV, typically within 12 months from the papers I've seen.

    Finally, leucovorin is an intermediate reduced folate, an antioxdant form of vitamin B9, and is well known to improve 5FU chemo performance.  However folic acid, an oxidized form, is toxic with chemo for most people, and the natural L5MTHF form does not interact strongly with the chemo complex.  

    It is unfortunate that Watson is so late in the game to be launched with this kind of speculation that is so confusing for the public.

  • Lovekitties
    Lovekitties Member Posts: 3,364 Member
    #5
    coloCan said:

    A somewhat different view,tho author acknowledges not

    having read Dr Watson's article,at www.foodconsumer.org

     

    while another version of original post,at:www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/254711.php

     

    (still don't understand how linkin blue appeared for first but not second article referenced here as i typed them the same way)

     

    missing space

    you didn't put a space between "at:" and "www" in the second link

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402
    #6
    tanstaafl said:

    media hyped?

    Any broad "antioxidant/vitamin" statement is incorrect in the absolute sense.  It is hard to say with limited sample and data whether a vitamin treated person's initial sample is in a protected state, or not, without an untreated sample for control.  I initially found a lab paper showing that vitamin C and K2 combined were impressively deadly for some colon cancer cells in a test tube, a day or two after my wife's diagnosis, as well as successful human trials with liver cancer.  So we added K2 to her "neoadjuvant" mix, two weeks presurgery. 

    Perhaps my wife's cancer is not sufficiently advanced, although she has some bad biomarker types. What I will say is that certain chemo-vitamin combinations appeared to be best for killing her cancer cells in the lab, bar none.  This appears to be borne out with her real life data too, due to data from several incidents. Also her UFT form of 5FU-LV remains, with selected vitamins and antioxidants, potent long after most people's mCRC tumors would become resistant to 5FU-LV, typically within 12 months from the papers I've seen.

    Finally, leucovorin is an intermediate reduced folate, an antioxdant form of vitamin B9, and is well known to improve 5FU chemo performance.  However folic acid, an oxidized form, is toxic with chemo for most people, and the natural L5MTHF form does not interact strongly with the chemo complex.  

    It is unfortunate that Watson is so late in the game to be launched with this kind of speculation that is so confusing for the public.

    The truth from Watson...

    "The biggest obstacle" to a true war against cancer, Watson wrote, may be "the inherently conservative nature of today's cancer research establishments." As long as that's so, "curing cancer will always be 10 or 20 years away."

     

     

  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425 Member
    #7
    manwithnoname said:

    The truth from Watson...

    "The biggest obstacle" to a true war against cancer, Watson wrote, may be "the inherently conservative nature of today's cancer research establishments." As long as that's so, "curing cancer will always be 10 or 20 years away."

     

     

    You know what I find

    You know what I find confusing.....while I've been getting infusions  I've seen people getting advice/help from nutritionists....some people not being able to maintain  weight .... and they are being handed  "promotional"  packages of  boost and ensure.    I've seen ads on t.v.  promoting these as full of anti-oxidants.   

  • jasminsaba
    jasminsaba Member Posts: 157 Member
    #8
    Well ...

    this goes against the recommendation of most oncologists to take a multi-vitamin during treatment. My mom took a multi-vitamin during chemo which contained Vitamins A, E and C ... should I be concerned?

    I really dislike all these abstract, bench research hypothese that are based on crap that goes on in mice ... I understand it's a necessarily step in the process, but personally, I much prefer clinical data - more meaningful and less confusing to patients and caregivers.

     

  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    #9
    jasminsaba said:

    Well ...

    this goes against the recommendation of most oncologists to take a multi-vitamin during treatment. My mom took a multi-vitamin during chemo which contained Vitamins A, E and C ... should I be concerned?

    I really dislike all these abstract, bench research hypothese that are based on crap that goes on in mice ... I understand it's a necessarily step in the process, but personally, I much prefer clinical data - more meaningful and less confusing to patients and caregivers.

     

    while its always best to get as much of our vit and mineral

    requirements from foods,most while in treatment have difficulty eating anything, let alone eating "healthy" so that may be one reason oncs recommend a multi (i survived on nutrition drinks,primarily). I've read studies claiming advantages in a multi, particularly as you get older,while other studies see no benefit in doing so...From what i've read of antioxidants and cancer.you can find research justifying either position....but thats generally true of everything. As for conclusions drawn from mice, rats, yeast,zebra fish -there are reasons why certain life forms are used to test stuff before its given to us and even when given to people, you won't know what will result until you start taking that new drug, or even when taking an established drug (oxi, for instance) you don't really know how you'll respond until you start taking it... 

  • Chelsea71
    Chelsea71 Member Posts: 1,169 Member
    #10
    smokeyjoe said:

    You know what I find

    You know what I find confusing.....while I've been getting infusions  I've seen people getting advice/help from nutritionists....some people not being able to maintain  weight .... and they are being handed  "promotional"  packages of  boost and ensure.    I've seen ads on t.v.  promoting these as full of anti-oxidants.   

    I see this at chemo too.
    I see this at chemo too. Also at The Ottawa Cancer Centre every desk or station in the entire clinic has a bowl of hard candies sitting out for the patients. Obviously they are trying to promote a pleasant and welcoming environment for patients. I am very confused about sugar and now vitamins. I am even confused about fruit. There are so many mixed messages, it becomes overwhelming. We have decided that avoiding refined sugar makes sense. Red meat only occasionally. Otherwise, everything in moderation, nothing in excess. As far as vitamins, one multivitamin, vit d, vit b6, fish oil and probiotics. I have to wonder how much difference it all makes. I think you have to to whatever works to stay strong while your on chemo.
    Chelsea
  • abrub
    abrub Member Posts: 2,174 Member
    #11
    Integrative Med at Memorial Sloan Kettering recommends

    against anti-oxidants during chemo.   See attached videos that explain why.  Lots of excellent information here.  http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/survivorship/videos-survivors/understanding-herbs-and-botanicals-survivorship

  • Sonia32
    Sonia32 Member Posts: 1,071 Member
    #12
    Thanks for posting

    Interesting article. Before I started Chemo I was on a wealth of vitamins, but then I checked with my oncologist. He only said I could stay on one, it was a multi vitamin, I carried on taking that even through chemo. I suppose everyone is different and your body will react in different ways.

  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172 Member
    #13
    Anti-oxidents...

    I doubt very much a multi-vitamin once a day is going to do anything negative simply because the amounts of each vitamin would be too small.  However, I'm totally in agreement that taking copious amounts of vitamins or anit-oxidents could have negative effects in some way with those of us on chemo or even someone who is completely healthy.   Although the article isn't specific with what is considered safe or dangerous, I got the feeling it was referring to people who take too much.  My expereince has been that most GP's don't seem to know enough about how vitamins and supplements work within the body let alone combined with prescription drugs.  Oncologists seem to know even less.

Discussion Boards