Nivolumab ( new official generic name for BMS936558 - MDX-1106 )
Comments
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Thank you so much! I knewI am alive said:So glad you saw The Man!!
Angec,
Sounds like you've got a good plan moving forward with your mom! What a good daughter you are. You picked up some interesting tidbits from your conversation with Dr. Motzer re: liver problems & Votrient, diabetes & Torisel, and the heart toxic qualities of both Votrient and Sutent. Thanks for sharing them with us. Good news that - other than cancer - your mom seems to be in good health. That's huge!
Thank you so much! I knew when you said "walk don't run" that i better get it in gear! At any rate I am happy to know that he is handling things with mom's doc and if she needs a trail going forward at least the process is started. She does have diabetes and high blood pressure but it is controlled with meds. I am still very much afraid for her with the meds but it looks like it is the only option. When she heard the possible side affects she said "why don't i stay like i am?" She is very, very afraid, with good reason. I just pray she tolerates the meds and they work. But thanks for the suggestion, you gave me the extra vote of confidence and push that I needed. Forever grateful to you!! Be well.. Big hugs!! XXOO0 -
Fear & loathingangec said:Thank you so much! I knew
Thank you so much! I knew when you said "walk don't run" that i better get it in gear! At any rate I am happy to know that he is handling things with mom's doc and if she needs a trail going forward at least the process is started. She does have diabetes and high blood pressure but it is controlled with meds. I am still very much afraid for her with the meds but it looks like it is the only option. When she heard the possible side affects she said "why don't i stay like i am?" She is very, very afraid, with good reason. I just pray she tolerates the meds and they work. But thanks for the suggestion, you gave me the extra vote of confidence and push that I needed. Forever grateful to you!! Be well.. Big hugs!! XXOO
I didn't realize your mom is reluctant to start the drugs, and is indeed fearful of them. That makes it tough. Though I guess, in looking back to last summer before I started my trial - a first experience with RCC drugs - I was fearful and reluctant too. I had to get past the notion that going down this road was the Beginning of The End. I was totally bummed. But we humans are amazing. I believe we are programmed to survive. Once the old "it is what it is" pragmatist kicked in I began moving forward. I'm betting your mom will too. She already manages one chronic disease for which she takes medication - diabetes. Well, probably two with high blood pressure. Now, with RCC, she has a third. She's an old hand at this!0 -
Gotta Date!tacyarts said:Ty
They say that I should be home on crutches around Christmas but dr says that pain will most certainly be drastically reduced. Maybe during my recoop time you could stop by and we can finally meet. It sounds like I will go in around 11 th and surgury will be 14th then 7 days of healing then home for Christmas with the family.
Sometime between now and the time you enter the hospital, e-mail me your real name so I know how to find you. In that same e-mail let me know your favorite fast food, and I'll try to time my* (*our if John's up to it) visit when you're totally sick of hospital food. Thrilled you'll finally going to get some relief.0 -
liver issuesangec said:Alice, I didn't know John
Alice, I didn't know John was having liver issues. Is it anything serious? I am assuming that the Nivolumab isn't causing this. Can they lower the dose on the Votrient or stop it temporarily? Maybe they can try Tivo, as I hear that it is doing well in trials, or what is that trial that I am Alive is on? I forget.
Alice, i for one was glad to see the article as i must have missed the posts from TW referring to Nivolumab, so the name was new for me. Now I can seem like I know something when i see the docs!
So thank you for posting it and I don't think there is a post out there that is not worthy, I am sure others did not know the name as well. We all can't keep up with TW, I am not even sure he doesn't have two brains! LOL But I tell you, I am glad we know him and he keeps us on the up and up.
Please send John my love. I will pray for you both. These are hard times but positive things are happening and the doctor was very positive about being able to keep this a chronic disease. There are alot of other things in the works. I hope they can lower John's dosage or switch him to something else. Did they try Torisel? The doc said it is usually very good but not for diabetics. Big hugs to you both. Keep the faith, keep up the positive thoughts and let's get through this together! XXOO
John's liver enzymes are a little elevated but not seriously so, not enough to pull him off the trial. But the elevated liver enzymes issue has been a factor in many of the patients in this trial which is why I understand they are not continuing the votrient/nivolumab arm. The people that are still on the trial (only 18 I last heard) will remain on it as long as they achieve positive results or stabilization unless the liver enzymes become a bigger issue for them.
Thanks for your suppport Ange. If he has to discontinue this trial, we'll look into other treatments or trials. I personally would love to see him get some relief for the shoulder mets and wonder if the cabo trial might be in his future. Other than this trial (votrient/nivolumab), his only other treatment has been HDIL2. So that leaves many doors unopened. We just have to continue to look at this as a chronic disease, not a fatal one.
Continue to do the great job you're doing for your mom. She's so lucky to have you as such a great advocate. Thumbs up!!!!
Love back to you.
P.S. I'm glad to have the very enlightened Wedgie looking out for us and there to correct my unnews flash. Just glad he didn't yell at me for starting a new thread.
Love ya Tex! 0 -
TW fussing over starting newalice124 said:liver issues
John's liver enzymes are a little elevated but not seriously so, not enough to pull him off the trial. But the elevated liver enzymes issue has been a factor in many of the patients in this trial which is why I understand they are not continuing the votrient/nivolumab arm. The people that are still on the trial (only 18 I last heard) will remain on it as long as they achieve positive results or stabilization unless the liver enzymes become a bigger issue for them.
Thanks for your suppport Ange. If he has to discontinue this trial, we'll look into other treatments or trials. I personally would love to see him get some relief for the shoulder mets and wonder if the cabo trial might be in his future. Other than this trial (votrient/nivolumab), his only other treatment has been HDIL2. So that leaves many doors unopened. We just have to continue to look at this as a chronic disease, not a fatal one.
Continue to do the great job you're doing for your mom. She's so lucky to have you as such a great advocate. Thumbs up!!!!
Love back to you.
P.S. I'm glad to have the very enlightened Wedgie looking out for us and there to correct my unnews flash. Just glad he didn't yell at me for starting a new thread. Love ya Tex!
TW fussing over starting new threads? NAW! You cracked me up with the point about your "un-news" statement.
If John has shoulder mets shouldn't they do the radiation? Why is this feeling like we went down this road before? They gave it to Fox for his bone mets and it really helped. I don't see where it would interfere with anything. Did you ask the docs Alice? Please forgive me if I forgot the reason, the fatigue is getting the Nestor me these days. I am so sorry about his pain. What do the docs suggest? Are they giving him the med to strengthen his bones? What was the name of it? Zometa? He is doing so well with the trial now, such a pity the shoulder is an issue. I wish they would address that for him and not ruin his chance on the trial. Maybe if you tell them the shoulder is really causing an issue. I will keep the prayers up, something has got to give. Feel better a john, is it one -putt? Oh, how about the tens unit, any help there? Xxoo Did they mention If it Is the Votrient alone causing the er issues or is it the MDX as well? Supposedly the new TiVo drug coming out has even less side affects. Have a good week!0 -
"TW fussing"angec said:TW fussing over starting new
TW fussing over starting new threads? NAW! You cracked me up with the point about your "un-news" statement.
If John has shoulder mets shouldn't they do the radiation? Why is this feeling like we went down this road before? They gave it to Fox for his bone mets and it really helped. I don't see where it would interfere with anything. Did you ask the docs Alice? Please forgive me if I forgot the reason, the fatigue is getting the Nestor me these days. I am so sorry about his pain. What do the docs suggest? Are they giving him the med to strengthen his bones? What was the name of it? Zometa? He is doing so well with the trial now, such a pity the shoulder is an issue. I wish they would address that for him and not ruin his chance on the trial. Maybe if you tell them the shoulder is really causing an issue. I will keep the prayers up, something has got to give. Feel better a john, is it one -putt? Oh, how about the tens unit, any help there? Xxoo Did they mention If it Is the Votrient alone causing the er issues or is it the MDX as well? Supposedly the new TiVo drug coming out has even less side affects. Have a good week!
I suppose at my age I should be flattered at having two young ladies spending time teasing me?!
Starting this thread did no harm. The name was "unnews" to some of us but probably real news to most (apparently including John's nurse, the excellent Monica - hope I've remembered her moniker correctly!) and the subject is a very significant one. It will be easier in future for, especially newcomers, to recognise the drug by its generic name, with no need for making the connection between the 3 different labels it's previously had.
[Having said that, I guess we're doomed to having to associate the new proprietary name(s), when it is approved and marketed (I hope soon), with the generic name and that won't be easy without some aide memoire - hands up anyone who can always remember that Avastin is bevacizumab, Nexavar sorafenib, Yervoy ipilimumab and Adriamycin doxorubicin!]
Ange, I didn't quite follow the arcane reference to the Argonaut Nestor but I suppose he might have been a bit fatigued when he allegedly participated in the Trojan war at the age of 110! I'm guessing that maybe you were the victim of a fantastical bit of predictive text (can't see that in the CSN s/w so I'm guessing you wrote it in Word and pasted it here?)
I share your hope that a solution can be found for John's shoulder pain - can't have golfers kept out of action! I'm glad you mentioned the TENS idea - must remember to try it on my right knee which is sore lately.
You raise an important point about side-effects - Alice, is it possible for the experts to isolate the origins of the side-effects, asbetween the nivolumab and the pazopanib with any degree of confidence?0 -
Shoulder PainTexas_wedge said:"TW fussing"
I suppose at my age I should be flattered at having two young ladies spending time teasing me?!
Starting this thread did no harm. The name was "unnews" to some of us but probably real news to most (apparently including John's nurse, the excellent Monica - hope I've remembered her moniker correctly!) and the subject is a very significant one. It will be easier in future for, especially newcomers, to recognise the drug by its generic name, with no need for making the connection between the 3 different labels it's previously had.
[Having said that, I guess we're doomed to having to associate the new proprietary name(s), when it is approved and marketed (I hope soon), with the generic name and that won't be easy without some aide memoire - hands up anyone who can always remember that Avastin is bevacizumab, Nexavar sorafenib, Yervoy ipilimumab and Adriamycin doxorubicin!]
Ange, I didn't quite follow the arcane reference to the Argonaut Nestor but I suppose he might have been a bit fatigued when he allegedly participated in the Trojan war at the age of 110! I'm guessing that maybe you were the victim of a fantastical bit of predictive text (can't see that in the CSN s/w so I'm guessing you wrote it in Word and pasted it here?)
I share your hope that a solution can be found for John's shoulder pain - can't have golfers kept out of action! I'm glad you mentioned the TENS idea - must remember to try it on my right knee which is sore lately.
You raise an important point about side-effects - Alice, is it possible for the experts to isolate the origins of the side-effects, asbetween the nivolumab and the pazopanib with any degree of confidence?
I'm with you Tex. I'd love to see John get back on the golf course. Know of no better therapy for him.
Ange--as far as radiation--we were told early on that radiation wasn't in the trial protocol so they were reluctant to treat that way. But if this trial ends, that issue will surely be readdressed. Fox received radiation as you point out, but Fox is on a nivlumab (MDX) trial only at a much higher dosage than John is receiving in his current two-punch trial. Perhaps that trial's protocol allowed radiation whereas John's does not.
Confidence in side effects attributed to nivolumab and the pazopanib? I think they are learning as they go along, not much more than trial and error.
I could be wrong but I haven't heard anything about discontinuing the nivolumab and sutent arm trial. Tacyarts might know more about that. But if the sutent/nivolumab trial is continuing, that would tell me that the liver enzyme issue has been narrowed down to the combination of the two drugs -- pazopanib and nivolumab. If it was pazopanib by itself, I don't believe pazopanib usage would be growing like it is. But that's simply the logic I'm utilizing. More enlightened people may see it differently.0 -
Ok TW.. you lost me on theTexas_wedge said:"TW fussing"
I suppose at my age I should be flattered at having two young ladies spending time teasing me?!
Starting this thread did no harm. The name was "unnews" to some of us but probably real news to most (apparently including John's nurse, the excellent Monica - hope I've remembered her moniker correctly!) and the subject is a very significant one. It will be easier in future for, especially newcomers, to recognise the drug by its generic name, with no need for making the connection between the 3 different labels it's previously had.
[Having said that, I guess we're doomed to having to associate the new proprietary name(s), when it is approved and marketed (I hope soon), with the generic name and that won't be easy without some aide memoire - hands up anyone who can always remember that Avastin is bevacizumab, Nexavar sorafenib, Yervoy ipilimumab and Adriamycin doxorubicin!]
Ange, I didn't quite follow the arcane reference to the Argonaut Nestor but I suppose he might have been a bit fatigued when he allegedly participated in the Trojan war at the age of 110! I'm guessing that maybe you were the victim of a fantastical bit of predictive text (can't see that in the CSN s/w so I'm guessing you wrote it in Word and pasted it here?)
I share your hope that a solution can be found for John's shoulder pain - can't have golfers kept out of action! I'm glad you mentioned the TENS idea - must remember to try it on my right knee which is sore lately.
You raise an important point about side-effects - Alice, is it possible for the experts to isolate the origins of the side-effects, asbetween the nivolumab and the pazopanib with any degree of confidence?
Ok TW.. you lost me on the reference to the Argonaut Nestor. Did i have an out of body experience, because i don't have a clue when i posted that? LOL
And yes, we love to tease you and make reference to you anytime we can! You are a staple here and leader. And we wouldn't have it any other way! Besides, you don't give us much to tease about so we have to grab for straws. We think you are adorable, at least i know I do!
Now, a bit of concern for me. Why is your knee a bit sore? Are you drinking gator aid to be sure you keep the electrolytes flowing and taking your vitamin b complex? When do you see the onc? Be sure to put the knee down on the list for when you go in. How are you feeling otherwise? Any less pain? I am hoping you feel better.0 -
OK now i see where i wroteangec said:Ok TW.. you lost me on the
Ok TW.. you lost me on the reference to the Argonaut Nestor. Did i have an out of body experience, because i don't have a clue when i posted that? LOL
And yes, we love to tease you and make reference to you anytime we can! You are a staple here and leader. And we wouldn't have it any other way! Besides, you don't give us much to tease about so we have to grab for straws. We think you are adorable, at least i know I do!
Now, a bit of concern for me. Why is your knee a bit sore? Are you drinking gator aid to be sure you keep the electrolytes flowing and taking your vitamin b complex? When do you see the onc? Be sure to put the knee down on the list for when you go in. How are you feeling otherwise? Any less pain? I am hoping you feel better.
OK now i see where i wrote NESTOR.. LOL This ipad will do that to you. Once you type something in it goes ahead and changes the word on you after you spell check it and send it off. I meant to say that the fatigue was getting the best of me! Not nestor.. LOL You see TW.. only someone with your intelligence (and good looks) would pick up on that. But i like the point you made about him being in the war at 110. Something good came out of it, i learned something new. Now, let's hope the words don't get changed around again. Who knows what can come up next!
Alice, i understand what you mean. I am just wondering if there was a little room to sway since John is suffering so much and the mets don't seem to be getting any better or he is not getting relief. I think the bone mets are better served by radiation and was hoping they would allow it just to give John some relief. But i guess trials are trials. I will pray they have a change of heart, please ask again, just one more time. How about your local oncologist or is it the same one from the trial? I just feel so bad for him. Does ben gay even help or not an option?
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Last sentence above!angec said:OK now i see where i wrote
OK now i see where i wrote NESTOR.. LOL This ipad will do that to you. Once you type something in it goes ahead and changes the word on you after you spell check it and send it off. I meant to say that the fatigue was getting the best of me! Not nestor.. LOL You see TW.. only someone with your intelligence (and good looks) would pick up on that. But i like the point you made about him being in the war at 110. Something good came out of it, i learned something new. Now, let's hope the words don't get changed around again. Who knows what can come up next!
Alice, i understand what you mean. I am just wondering if there was a little room to sway since John is suffering so much and the mets don't seem to be getting any better or he is not getting relief. I think the bone mets are better served by radiation and was hoping they would allow it just to give John some relief. But i guess trials are trials. I will pray they have a change of heart, please ask again, just one more time. How about your local oncologist or is it the same one from the trial? I just feel so bad for him. Does ben gay even help or not an option?
There you go again Ange! What's this about John being gay?!0 -
Speaking of gay...Texas_wedge said:Last sentence above!
There you go again Ange! What's this about John being gay?!
Now it all makes sense;
Gay marriage and marijuana were legalized in Colorado on the same day.
Leviticus 20:13 says - "If a man lays with another man he should be stoned."
WOW, I wasn't reading it correctly.0 -
Clevergarym said:Speaking of gay...
Now it all makes sense;
Gay marriage and marijuana were legalized in Colorado on the same day.
Leviticus 20:13 says - "If a man lays with another man he should be stoned."
WOW, I wasn't reading it correctly.
Very clever Gary! Funny what you remember. . .
_______________
Ange - I initially read "ben gay" the same way as our Board bad boys, Gary and Tex. Planned on shooting you an email kidding you about it, but should have known "the boys" would beat me to it.
_______________
Ange - what happened to your picture?
_______________
Gary and Tex - And NO I'm not referring to the picture of John ben gay.0 -
coming outalice124 said:Clever
Very clever Gary! Funny what you remember. . .
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Ange - I initially read "ben gay" the same way as our Board bad boys, Gary and Tex. Planned on shooting you an email kidding you about it, but should have known "the boys" would beat me to it.
_______________
Ange - what happened to your picture?
_______________
Gary and Tex - And NO I'm not referring to the picture of John ben gay.
Alice,
Now that our little "secret" is out,would you mind stopping on your way home and buy me a bigger tutu.After all,I've gained 22 lbs. since my trial began:)!!!0 -
I'm not sure?alice124 said:Shoulder Pain
I'm with you Tex. I'd love to see John get back on the golf course. Know of no better therapy for him.
Ange--as far as radiation--we were told early on that radiation wasn't in the trial protocol so they were reluctant to treat that way. But if this trial ends, that issue will surely be readdressed. Fox received radiation as you point out, but Fox is on a nivlumab (MDX) trial only at a much higher dosage than John is receiving in his current two-punch trial. Perhaps that trial's protocol allowed radiation whereas John's does not.
Confidence in side effects attributed to nivolumab and the pazopanib? I think they are learning as they go along, not much more than trial and error.
I could be wrong but I haven't heard anything about discontinuing the nivolumab and sutent arm trial. Tacyarts might know more about that. But if the sutent/nivolumab trial is continuing, that would tell me that the liver enzyme issue has been narrowed down to the combination of the two drugs -- pazopanib and nivolumab. If it was pazopanib by itself, I don't believe pazopanib usage would be growing like it is. But that's simply the logic I'm utilizing. More enlightened people may see it differently.
I'm still holding my breath on the issue of staying on the trial, they didn't guarentee me anything. I have no choice in the matter now because my quality of life is really bad with my leg pain.0 -
serious ?one putt said:coming out
Alice,
Now that our little "secret" is out,would you mind stopping on your way home and buy me a bigger tutu.After all,I've gained 22 lbs. since my trial began:)!!!
How come something so serious can be the "butt" of jokes? I can tell my friends that if I'm sad and need an attitude adjustment I just go to a CANCER forum to share a few laughs. Is that wrong?
Also, I'm still unsure of the results from the radiation to my back and rib. My last scan had shown the mets were still growing. May have just been inflammation. I don't know how long before the answer is conclusive. Next scan is 3 weeks away. My pain has diminished significantly but my spine does ache. So we'll see.
A couple gay guys are standing naked at the urinal in a bath house. One guy looks over at his buddy and says," Is that a "nicoderm" patch on your penis?" I thought you were supposed to put them on your shoulder. His buddy answers, "That may work for some people, but I'm down to 2 butts a day!" I apologize.0 -
This board is hysterical!foxhd said:serious ?
How come something so serious can be the "butt" of jokes? I can tell my friends that if I'm sad and need an attitude adjustment I just go to a CANCER forum to share a few laughs. Is that wrong?
Also, I'm still unsure of the results from the radiation to my back and rib. My last scan had shown the mets were still growing. May have just been inflammation. I don't know how long before the answer is conclusive. Next scan is 3 weeks away. My pain has diminished significantly but my spine does ache. So we'll see.
A couple gay guys are standing naked at the urinal in a bath house. One guy looks over at his buddy and says," Is that a "nicoderm" patch on your penis?" I thought you were supposed to put them on your shoulder. His buddy answers, "That may work for some people, but I'm down to 2 butts a day!" I apologize.
This board is hysterical! TW, it seems that I can't help myself! Alice, I am so sorry that you had to find out this way! John, I should have just told Alice to try some liniment. You know the powerful stuff you put on your aching joints and it burns so bad that you forget about the pain? LOL 22 pounds since you started treatment? Are you taking Marinol? That would explain why Gary came up with that equation/scripture and tied it all together! Alice, since you are picking up a large TUTU for John, maybe you can check out the Ben-GAY on the way!
Fox, please don't worry too much. It is very possible it is inflammation and the docs do not seem worried about it. The trial will continue for you as you are doing very well in spite of it all. Try some meditation and bring your focus somewhere else for a bit. There is nothing you can do at the moment to change it and the anxiety is building. Have you been riding much lately or is it to cold for that now? Just think about the hug and kiss you will get from the little lady when you finish your visit. Please keep us a 'butt of it all. Uh, I mean abreast of it all! 0 -
Abreast of it all...angec said:This board is hysterical!
This board is hysterical! TW, it seems that I can't help myself! Alice, I am so sorry that you had to find out this way! John, I should have just told Alice to try some liniment. You know the powerful stuff you put on your aching joints and it burns so bad that you forget about the pain? LOL 22 pounds since you started treatment? Are you taking Marinol? That would explain why Gary came up with that equation/scripture and tied it all together! Alice, since you are picking up a large TUTU for John, maybe you can check out the Ben-GAY on the way!
Fox, please don't worry too much. It is very possible it is inflammation and the docs do not seem worried about it. The trial will continue for you as you are doing very well in spite of it all. Try some meditation and bring your focus somewhere else for a bit. There is nothing you can do at the moment to change it and the anxiety is building. Have you been riding much lately or is it to cold for that now? Just think about the hug and kiss you will get from the little lady when you finish your visit. Please keep us a 'butt of it all. Uh, I mean abreast of it all!
Now you've done it, you're going to be sorry you got me started...
A teenage girl goes to the doctor. He places a stethoscope against her chest and says, "Big breaths." She answers, "Yeth, thir, and I'm only thixteen."0 -
More boobs from Garygarym said:Abreast of it all...
Now you've done it, you're going to be sorry you got me started...
A teenage girl goes to the doctor. He places a stethoscope against her chest and says, "Big breaths." She answers, "Yeth, thir, and I'm only thixteen."
Good to see that one revived. Do you know where it originated? I remember it from 1957 (yes, the same year as Little Darlin' hit the US charts) and the doctor wielding the stethoscope was a certain Derek Jules Gaspard Ulric Niven van den Bogaerde, better known as Dirk, one of my favourite actors and a fine writer too. His old man was the art critic of The Times. The scene was very short but i can still picture it.0 -
meditation?Texas_wedge said:More boobs from Gary
Good to see that one revived. Do you know where it originated? I remember it from 1957 (yes, the same year as Little Darlin' hit the US charts) and the doctor wielding the stethoscope was a certain Derek Jules Gaspard Ulric Niven van den Bogaerde, better known as Dirk, one of my favourite actors and a fine writer too. His old man was the art critic of The Times. The scene was very short but i can still picture it.
Ange, thanks for the advice. However, my little mind spends too little time in reality. I may possibly be the last person still breathing on this board who needs any psychological backup due to cancer. I am the King of Coping. I can actively flip from my right hemisphere to my left hemisphere in a moment. I can and do place my mind in many places. Usually has to do with motorcycles, guitars, golf and exercise. Just missing my exercise. I've repeated several times that I have never asked,"Why me?" It is just a fact of life. Sucks. But a fact of life. I always feel terrible for new members that display so much panic. The only time I felt that way was when my first oncologist told me that I would probably be dead in a few months. I'll admit that did suck. But here I am sharing dirty jokes.0 -
Fox, keep the jokes coming!foxhd said:meditation?
Ange, thanks for the advice. However, my little mind spends too little time in reality. I may possibly be the last person still breathing on this board who needs any psychological backup due to cancer. I am the King of Coping. I can actively flip from my right hemisphere to my left hemisphere in a moment. I can and do place my mind in many places. Usually has to do with motorcycles, guitars, golf and exercise. Just missing my exercise. I've repeated several times that I have never asked,"Why me?" It is just a fact of life. Sucks. But a fact of life. I always feel terrible for new members that display so much panic. The only time I felt that way was when my first oncologist told me that I would probably be dead in a few months. I'll admit that did suck. But here I am sharing dirty jokes.
Fox, keep the jokes coming! I am very glad to hear that you are "king" of coping! You have always been a good example for me, the caregiver, who is very prone to panic on the whole topic. Your post above is very comforting to me.
Guitars? This is the first I am hearing of it! Do you play and sing? My friend just went on a tour at the "Martin" factory in Pa. this week. 10k for guitars that all look the same to me (hope my husband did hear that!) but i guess they are worth it.
Gary, that was too funny! Dare I mention "leg".. any jokes for that body part? Uh-oh!
Alice, just saw your question. Yes, I took the picture down. I have to find one i am comfortable with, there are not many.0
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