Advice? Watching loved one self destruct!!

Melanie
You're in a tough position. It also sounds like he has other "issues" that he feels he needs to get back to (drinking and chewing) He also sounds like he believes his battle is over and it's party time.
Cancer changes a person, sometimes for the worse...
What you have to face is not pleasant but you can't help someone who doesn't want help.
-phil

A soft place
Welcome back to your soft place. There are many here who will understand both your's and your husband's positions well but in truth I sense you simply need a neutral place to off load and here is great for that. There are a lot of possible interpretations as to what is driving your husband's behaviour and the other problems in your relationship (which I suspect go beyond just his drinking and chewing) including two very valid thoughts above. You are best placed to really understand what it means though and in truth there is a chance it has nothing to do with cancer and is more simply a relationship in real trouble. I guess for me the question is whether there is anything you (or anyone else) can do to improve or change it. At present it sounds like an unhealthy uncommunicating stale mate where you are being pushed into a role he is finding nagging and he is responding by pushing you away.

It is even harder to face relationship problems when you have invested more care in this relationship due to his illness than many people at your age would have been asked to do. That emotional investment makes thoughts about ending the relationship even harder to tolerate. Will he talk healthily about it to you/ some one else/ a counsellor? Or is it an unchangeable situation that you have the impossible decision of deciding to stay or go (he is pushing this decision to be yours as it is probably just as intolerable for him to think about ending too).

No real answers but in truth I guess you don't come here looking for them. Cancer (if that is what is at the root of this) is as eroding and undermining of the health of a relationship as it is to the health of a person. Some hard thinking and harder choices lie ahead- I wish you all the best.

steve

Kathryn_in_MN said:

Some men
Some men go through a rough time accepting their wives as the person they've always been after watching childbirth. This could be a simliar reaction. Please get counseling for yourself, and maybe they can assist you with finding a way to get him to agree to attend too.

My wife
I tell my wife everyday that she saved my life. Being in Korea, and her being Korean, she got me into the best hospitals, and the best care there is. I am so grateful for her. But I can understand, to a point, what your husband is doing. My Uncle did the same thing. All you can do is pray for him...

God bless you... I hope he has a change of heart before he loses everything that is valuable in his life... Including his life...

John

herdizziness said:

Melanie
The hurt, sorrow and despair of watching your love becoming a stumbling insensitive out of touch drunk is indeed one of the most difficult and most maddening thing to watch, trying to stop it is like standing on railroad tracks holding your hand out in a stop position as it bears down on you, all you can do is cry out to the gods in agony, pleading for it to stop in time. In my house I am the one with cancer, my husband is the one that has been on a binge now for over two years since my diagnosis. I watch him every day deteriorate. He can no longer walk in that every so powerful steady "in control" walk he used to have as he strode sure and steady with the world at his fingertips each day, with me often having to run to keep up, instead now he walks as if he's 90 years old, with a wide stance, shuffling to try and steady himself, he often falls, he now has a limp from injuring his knee a few weeks ago from one of his falls, his nose bleeds daily, when we go to the store I have to let him hold onto the cart because he cannot steady himself, looking at him and seeing a large wet spot from him having peed on himself and he doesn't even realize he did so, cleaning up the puddles of pee that he leaves trailing behind the times he realizes he has to pee and attempts to make it to the bathroom, the changing of the bed when I find him on my side because he has peed the bed yet again on his side and he has simply moved over to get away from the wetness. Every day I feel despair, every day I fear as I come home that I will find him hurt again or dead from falling down due to his drunkenness, I come home at 12:20 in the AFTERNOON and he is already in this condition nearly daily (sometimes, once in a while it might not be until 3 in the afternoon, those are the good days). I miss our wonderful days, the talks we had, now our talks are him rambling on and on and on and on, repeating the same thing over and over again. I miss holding his hand and murmuring love words to him, laughing with him, being proud to say I am his wife. I am now just his protector, trying my best to protect him from himself. He picked someone to blame his drinking on, and that was my son, who moved out because he couldn't take this man's cussing and anger at him anymore, the same son who used to pick him up and carry him to bed after we would find him outside laying on the patio or lawn, or on the bathroom floor or on the kitchen floor from falling due to his drunkenness. Now it is just me trying to pick him up as he falls on the floor, which can often take up to an hour to do, he is over 6 feet tall and I am 5 ft 5 inches. I have to let him hold on to both shoulders and walk him as he leans on me, tipping us sideways to get him to the bathroom and then the same to get him back on the bed. I often end up without covers because he falls on the bed fully clothed and I cannot budge him to get the covers back. Even his primary doctor (who is also mine)tells me I need to get away from the stress of his drinking. I cannot, he is 59 and I cannot bear the thought of him lying in a pool of his own blood without someone there to try and save him, and that someone is me. So I stay, he was a good steady, loving and intelligent man, an electrical engineer who's way of dealing with my cancer was to lose himself in a bottle. He got sober for three months recently (about 4 months ago)and it was wonderful and I thought I had him back again, but a beer became two beers, then a six pack, then a case, and back to the vodka, and I lost him once again.
It's lonely living with an alcoholic, since he is asleep in bed by 6:00 pm or earlier each night, it is as if I live by myself in this large house, but I cannot go out in the evenings because that is usually when he awakens and decides to get up long enough to get another drink and that is the most dangerous time for him, the time he often falls the most, so I am tied to the house to help him.
I write these things, because you ask if anyone has gone through this, (I think at this point you will see that mine is possibly worse than your situation I hope), that yes, you are not alone.
As my doctor recommended to me, I will do the same to you, go to AL-ANON and go as soon as you can (I have not gone, but then my tears have dried up and I am resigned to my lot in life with my husband) they can help give you strength to do what ever it is that you feel you must do in order to save yourself and your children. I no longer give my husband excuses in my mind, he chose the liquor over living, I did not choose this for him, your husband may use cancer as an excuse, but it's just that, a lie of an excuse, there is no excuse for turning your back on your loved ones and life in favor of a bottle.
Ahh, dear, it isn't easy, what you are going through, my tears at the moment are for you and how you are suffering, realizing you can't talk sense into him, you can't make him realize what he is doing to himself, to you, to his family. I can say I realize exactly what you are going through at this moment, I have been there, mine is now much worse. I take my joys when I can, the moments before he's too drunk to be "with me", finding things to be happy about, my children, my grandchildren, my college, my friends, otherwise I believe I'd start drinking my self from living in too dark a world with the shell of man that I share my world with now.
How I truly wish I could tell you "I did such and such and now he's sober and our world is right again", but I have not found the answer, I have not solved the puzzle as to why such a wonderful man became a professional embarrassing harmful drunk, I have no cure to share with you, and that is the saddest part of it all, isn't it? We cannot fix them, they have to do it themselves and sometimes they aren't willing, the bottle has won in my case. I pray for you it doesn't in yours.
I'm sorry I have no advice, but please do not think you are alone in this world, we are here for you, even if we have no good answers, we care.
Winter Marie

Melanie and Marie...
I will not share my experience with trying to help an alcoholic because you both already know the story. I will say thatnI HATE alcohol.... It takes over people.... You no longer even know who you are dealing with. It eats your soul as a bystander, destroys family.... AND YOU CANNOT HELP THEM! Children should not have to be raised in this environment. Spouses should not have to live in this environment. I was the child of a 'functioning' alcoholic.... 'Nuff said.. God bless you both... Lorie

Mel:)
Hi Mel

Alot of good posts here...I saw this after you posted it yesterday, but did not have the time to put any good thoughts together so quickly, so I wanted to revisit.

A couple of interesting things to note here...

Two things are really going here....one, he really doesn't care...or two, he is scared and doesn't want to face the possibilities of recurrence....sometimes, one can find it much easier if we leave the door closed - rather than walk through it.

Now, there are times when cancer might coerce a particular patient to "act out." We might throw caution to the wind, because we convince ourselves that none of it matters anymore. We can't fathom having to go through that entire ritual again - some of us just don't want to revisit that once we get through the initial battle. And some of us are not as mentally strong as another person can be.

However, his habits stem from a lifesytle that were prevalent prior to cancer, so this is quite a bit different than say someone who never showed a huge propensity to drink in their life - but after a diagnosis or recovery period, they find themselves self-medicating through a bottle.

It might start out as fun....catch a little buzz here and it feels good...but as with any habit, over time it becomes less fun - and in the end, it becomes a burden - and an overwhelming one...so drinking until you crash into walls starts slowly but ends up in the same spot.

In this scenario, the episode could conincide with anxiety or uncertainty and could pass over time - it could be just "a phase" so to speak. In this case, I think it is a lashing out against cancer - and more importantly, it's anger directed at the loss of control in one's life and through some strange rationalization, the thoughts become that there is some control - control that can come from going numb and not having to deal with it for the night.

The problem always occurs when tonight leads to tomorrow night - which can lead to....

But, in your husband's case, it's hard to answer for him what he is feeling. Of course, you can't force him to fight for himself...I've found that caregiving is only as good as the person that wants to be cared for.

Where you have the choice - is to sit and watch - or not.

Chewing is a filthy habit - I never quite understood the allure there - seems like a mouth full of that stuff and the taste left on your breath, would not exactly be the recipe for a smooch. I've seen photos of folks who had their jaws removed and reconstructive surgery.

To say they do not look human - is an understatement. It's not pretty. Whatever buzz he gets from that will not be worth the exchange.

As for drinking, he has been at it awhile, so this may be a cyle that he may not be able to break, at least not on his own. Perhaps, even if he even wanted it himself. But, only he will know that.

But, he's making a bigger mistake on other fronts besides just these snafus. Taking himself out of the healthcare treadmill, is a recipe for diaster - and I know you know this.

Recurrence is a high probability for all of us. Very few of us fight it one time and then hang up our cleats and call it a day. While he is delaying, he could be setting the stage for a much harder fight (should he choose to do so) and he might be jeporadizing his future the longer he waits (should he choose to do so.)

Time is of the essence.

As for him telling you that you "are not his mom." That's fighting like a child and that's exactly how it comes across.

No, you're not his mom - but you are partners, and as such have a vested in each other to help each other get to the next day - so that one of you will be always be able to help the other. It's a long hard fight without a caregiver.

Without you - he will almost certainly go down. He needs to sober up and recognize that fact. There's nothing scarier than being sick - and having nobody to help you....friends and family are nice...but for times like these, you need the spouse, plain and simple.

I think what it really all boils down to is this..."giving one's self an excuse to fail - is alot easier than owning up to the work it takes to battle cancer."

Another words, by taking the easy way out with his lifestyle, if cancer were to come back and eventually claim him - he could let himself off the hook from his behavior and use that as the basis for his shortcomings.

As for you, sure you're angry - you're angry at watching him squander his opportunity at getting ahead of a deadly killer - and you're angry at basically giving everything back that you both worked for during the first fight.

And you're really angry - because he's not trying. And I think to a large degree, you've lost a great deal of respect for him.

And that's important - because women want to respect the men they are married too (vice versa too). No woman wants to see her man be weak or turn weak.

(Winter's post confirmed alot of what I wanted to write, she knows first hand.)

Women gain strength and comfort through the eyes that they see their man through. When the respect goes, that part of the relationship dies - and it's sometimes hard to rekindle that.

Since I've gotten stronger this past year and had to step up and battle other evil forces besides cancer, I see my woman again viewing me through new eyes - suddenly looking back to me for comfort, strength, calmness, and an assurance of a plan - and the willingness to work towards it.

You're in a tough spot right now. It's possible that you might need to save yourself and your children and make a very tough choice. The decision rests solely on him to try and make a change and salvage an important relationship - or just let it die.

You can only do what you can do - you can't make an adult do anything they really don't want to do. If he wants a divorce, that may be something to consider.

Perhaps, try and set up a time to talk rationally as adults and as partners in life to discuss your concerns - and see if he wants to approach this in an adult manner and be open to what you have to say.....no drinking or chewing during discussion.

Based on that discussion (or lack of) could help you determine the best course of action for your life and what is needed for you.

And remember, NO ONE PERSON can be the "End All - Be All" for any other person, even partners. None of us can satisfy or fulfill the needs and wants of any one person. It takes a village.

Thank you for sharing such a personal, heartwrenching story. I'm so sorry things have come to this and hope that there is a chance for recovery, before it's too late.

-Craig

I'm so sorry
Melanie,

I've read your post over several times now, usually with tears in my eyes. I keep trying to come up with something to say that may help you but I keep running into a brick wall. I'm not even going to try to blame chemo-brain for this because the truth is that simply don't know enough. I'm an ordained minister of 8 years and have done marriage counseling before, but it was always both partners giving their side of the story and then working to find the happy middle ground. If your husband is unwilling to go to counseling, there's very little to do about it. My marriage ended because my ex-wife wouldn't acknowledge there was a problem and refused to even consider counseling.

I haven't mentioned on this board about my own vices until now. I'm a drinker, although much less than I was a year ago. I used to go through a 30 pack of 5.9% alcohol beer in about two days, now one of 3.2% beer will last about five days. I also smoke cigars, and I do inhale them. I tell people that I really enjoy them (which I do) and just don't want to give them up. After all, "what're they gonna do? Give me cancer?" But that's just rationalization. I know that the reason why I continue to drink and smoke is because of my own depression. Writing this just then is the first that I've admitted this to anyone. So, my thought is that perhaps reverting back to old habits may be your husbands way of dealing with his own depression. These are areas of comfort, maybe even considered "old friends" by him. I'm just blue skying here, I don't know enough to create an informed idea so just going by my own feelings.

I hope and pray that the two of you can find the peace and happiness that you both need in your lives.

Doc/Ray

MelanieT said:

I can't even express how
I can't even express how thankful I am to all of you for your words! I read most of them twice because I was crying so hard I knew I was missing things. There is so much truth in every post made and I definetley took something from each! I saw a counselor for ME last week and realized no matter what his reason is for self destructing, be cancer, depression, old habits etc I am not his savior!! I love this man but I love myself and our 4 daughters and 2 grand kids more! We didn't ask for cancer anymore than he did but we always kept up the fight and always will..for him it's a done deal. I have decided after his latest drunk episode( sticking a hotdog roaster in our fire pit then sticking thru his arm to so called brand himself) that I am moving to my parents for now. I am going to give him our counseling schedule and tell him I would love him to come but I won't nag him. He needs to do it for him. I did ask what his plan is medical wise and his answer was I am done going unless something hurts... I have to just be ok with this( even though I AM NOT) I need to stay strong and healthy for my girls! Don't get me wrong I am not giving up but it's like my counselor said, it's sink or swim time right now you are enabling him and completly miserable in the process. The hardest part is how much I hurt for him. He has been through SO much in the last 2 years and it sucks not being able to just fix it! You all are such strong amazing people and I won't even pretend to understand how all the tests,surgeries,dr appts and treatment feel or the emotional for that matter but I will say, we on the outside care soooo much! We lose sleep, we research, we argue with doctors if something doesn't feel right, we pray and above all we LOVE you guys!!! I really don't know where Chris head is at but I am hoping to somehow come together and figure it out, even if it is apart for now! Thanks for all your love and support! This really is a family

Loves, Mel

Hugs Mel
You are doing the right thing. Hopefully time apart will convince him to go to counsolling with you. You are so sweet for mentioning it, and he's refusing it. Personally I think if he wasn't like this before the cancer, he is running scared. He might not admit it, but he is. So his point is to live life as though it will be ending tomorrow. We all cope in our different ways Mel, maybe this is his way. I suppose it's like an addict if he doesn't admit he needs help you can't go anywhere with it until he does. Priority at the moment is you. Give yourself time and space. I really hope this wakes him up and he appreciates how damn lucky he is to have you.

MelanieT said:

I can't even express how
I can't even express how thankful I am to all of you for your words! I read most of them twice because I was crying so hard I knew I was missing things. There is so much truth in every post made and I definetley took something from each! I saw a counselor for ME last week and realized no matter what his reason is for self destructing, be cancer, depression, old habits etc I am not his savior!! I love this man but I love myself and our 4 daughters and 2 grand kids more! We didn't ask for cancer anymore than he did but we always kept up the fight and always will..for him it's a done deal. I have decided after his latest drunk episode( sticking a hotdog roaster in our fire pit then sticking thru his arm to so called brand himself) that I am moving to my parents for now. I am going to give him our counseling schedule and tell him I would love him to come but I won't nag him. He needs to do it for him. I did ask what his plan is medical wise and his answer was I am done going unless something hurts... I have to just be ok with this( even though I AM NOT) I need to stay strong and healthy for my girls! Don't get me wrong I am not giving up but it's like my counselor said, it's sink or swim time right now you are enabling him and completly miserable in the process. The hardest part is how much I hurt for him. He has been through SO much in the last 2 years and it sucks not being able to just fix it! You all are such strong amazing people and I won't even pretend to understand how all the tests,surgeries,dr appts and treatment feel or the emotional for that matter but I will say, we on the outside care soooo much! We lose sleep, we research, we argue with doctors if something doesn't feel right, we pray and above all we LOVE you guys!!! I really don't know where Chris head is at but I am hoping to somehow come together and figure it out, even if it is apart for now! Thanks for all your love and support! This really is a family

Loves, Mel

I hope
I sure hope he shows up for the counseling. I'm glad you are doing what you need to do to stay strong and be there for ALL of your family.