Diet, Supplements, Exercise, etc.

Kongo said:

Great info
Great information here, Beau. Thanks for posting.

Typed in website to no
Typed in website to no avail. Can anyone link it, please.

BTW Kongo, just finished HT (last shot 6 months ago). PSA still less than 0.01....Still on diet and exercise...Life is good...Getting next PSA and testosterone test in December. Hope all is well with you. Have had contact with mrspjd lately.

ob66 said:

Typed in website to no
Typed in website to no avail. Can anyone link it, please.

BTW Kongo, just finished HT (last shot 6 months ago). PSA still less than 0.01....Still on diet and exercise...Life is good...Getting next PSA and testosterone test in December. Hope all is well with you. Have had contact with mrspjd lately.

Good News
Ob, glad to hear that the diet and exercise regimen is still working for you. I'm still pretty religious about it although I do backslide on occasion when I'm traveling. It's great that your PSA is so low after your HT. Hope everything continues to progress smoothly. I think of you often when I'm driving up the coast to LA.

Best

tonybuxton said:

Diet and exercise
Hi Kongo
You say you are pretty religious about diet and exercise. I also firmly believe it is good especially since I can not take HT. You must have a lot of experience in these matters. But now that I am trying to find good nutrition I keep coming up against controversy. Like tomato products(lycopene), flax seed, milk and sugar etc. I am trying to eat things that are good for Pca and avoid things that aren't. Everything where I live (Thailand)has sugar in it. I did read some years back a John Hopkins report that cancer feeds on sugar. But in their latest nutritional guidelines they say that sugar is not linked to cancer. But of course it is high in calories and of no nutritional value.
I do not find it too hard to stick to a diet because anyway I live on seafood and whole grain cereals and a lot of fruit which is good for everything and my cholesterol is very low. I used to drink a huge amount of non fat fresh milk but now I have switched to soy milk. But it is very difficult to find it without some sugar.
I have a bigger problem with exercise. I can only walk 15-20 minutes each day because of my age (81) and bad back. I can't swim in the sea because I am not strong enough but I can go to a friends pool once or twice a week.
Any advice from you is very welcome. But I would like to hear more about yourself too. How are you faring with your Pca?
Tony

You're My Hero
Tony,

At 81, living abroad in paradise, and battling prostate cancer in a smart way you are the envy of many of us in the forum. One thing I have learned, for me at least, is that the more complicated the diet the more difficult it is to maintain for a long period. I am also not a big fan of dietary supplements in general except for maybe vitamin B-12. Everything we need can be obtain from a smart, well balanced diet with moderate portion sizes and at least 15 minutes a day outside to get the Vitamin D we need.

I avoid all dairy although sometimes it sneaks in a recipe when I am eating out or at someone's for dinner and I don't worry about those relatively small amounts. A lot of people sometimes forget what dairy actually is. Dairy is a food product from the mammary glands of a mammal. Dairy products include all cheeses, yogurts, and so forth. Some people mistakenly think dairy includes eggs (perhaps because you can find them in the diary section of supermarkets) but as far as I know, chickens are not mammals.

Dairy contains insulin growth factors (IGF) which have been shown to feed growth in prostate and breast cancers. In the United States virtually all of our dairy products come from animals that are loaded with growth hormones and antibiotics which pass directly on to us. Humans do not need (mother's) milk after they have been weaned and the pituitary gland is mature enough to regulate organ growth, which occurs by the time a child reaches 24 months. Cows milk is perfect for baby cows which have to double in size and weight very quickly but humans don't need those growth parameters. I suspect that juvenile diabetes (my youngest has it), early puberty, and childhood obesity are related to too much dairy products. In rural China where there is virtually zero intake of dairy the rate of prostate cancer is 1 in 100,000. Breast cancer is 1 in 80,000. In the USA prostate cancer affects 1 in 6 men and 1 in 8 women get breast cancer. When Chinese immigrate to the West and adopt our diet their cancer rates are the same as all the others from European ancestry so I don't think it's a genetic thing. You may wish to learn more about diary and its impact on prostate and breast cancer. I recommend Professor Jane Plant’s books, “Prostate Cancer” and “Your Life in Your Hands” as a good starting point or research her work on the internet. Interestingly, man is the only animal that knowingly drinks the milk of another species as a regular food source.

A book I read last year that changed my whole outlook on eating is called “The China Study” based on detailed review of dietary and disease statistics across the Han population in China. What they basically found is that a diet comprised of less than 15% animal products virtually eliminates the “rich nation diseases” such as cancer, dementia, diabetes, MS, heart disease, and so forth. It’s a big book but an easy read. In the USA the cattle industry feeds the animals corn to make them fat and get that marbled texture we love so much. Cows are supposed to be grass eaters, not corn eaters. To compensate for the artificial diet the cattle are kept in gigantic feed lots and fed several times a day. Because of the conditions in these feed lots where the cows stand knee deep in manure and they require heavy injections of antibiotics. They also receive significant growth hormones to accelerate their growth so they can go to slaughter sooner. This all ends up with a food product loaded with growth hormones and antibiotics that are associated with cancer and heart disease.

Instead of trying to manage every specific thing I eat I just avoid dairy and try to keep my protein from animal sources to less than 15% overall. I try to eat some meat each month and stick to the organic beef. I do eat some seafood as well but stick to ocean fish. That lets me splurge occasionally if I feel like it and it keeps my weight, cholesterol, and heart going well. We recently got a Vitamix blender so I am eating (rather drinking) a lot more vegetables than ever before (I never really liked veggies) and increasing fiber as well.

Instead of dairy, I use almond milk or rice milk. I also drink soy milk but find I don’t like it as much as either rice or almond. You might try making your own milk if you have the equipment and the rice and almonds are available. It only takes a blender and water. There are recipes on the internet.

Everyone has a different philosophy about diet. It’s a complicated subject but I’m pretty sure that there is no single miracle pill, or group of pills, that will solve our health problems.

With respect to exercise, I don’t go to the gym or anything fancy. I just don’t have time in my schedule. What I do is walk. I try to walk early in the morning and in the evening for at least a mile. When I travel I walk between terminals in airports and stake out neighborhoods to explore. I’ve got a pair of very light weight walking shoes that now have a spot in my carry-on bag. Walking is great exercise and it is a good way to think and unwind after a hectic day.

Since my Gleason 6 PCa was treated two years ago with SBRT (CyberKnife) I have had zero side effects and my PSA is now well below 1 and still declining. The diagnosis was a wake-up call and in many ways it was one of the best things that has happened to me. I am much more knowledgeable about my body, what is going on with it, and how I need to take care of it. It has also enabled me to better put things in perspective and set the right priorities. Compared to cancer, all the things I used to get anxious about just don't seem that relevant anymore. I enjoy reading and studying about prostate cancer and try to learn something new about it every day. I also think that those of us who have dealt with this disease should share our knowledge with those who are just starting their journey and offer advice and empathy when it makes sense. The world would be a better place if we would all just give back a little.

Tony, you are doing great for your age. Keep at it.

K

Kongo said:

You're My Hero
Tony,

At 81, living abroad in paradise, and battling prostate cancer in a smart way you are the envy of many of us in the forum. One thing I have learned, for me at least, is that the more complicated the diet the more difficult it is to maintain for a long period. I am also not a big fan of dietary supplements in general except for maybe vitamin B-12. Everything we need can be obtain from a smart, well balanced diet with moderate portion sizes and at least 15 minutes a day outside to get the Vitamin D we need.

I avoid all dairy although sometimes it sneaks in a recipe when I am eating out or at someone's for dinner and I don't worry about those relatively small amounts. A lot of people sometimes forget what dairy actually is. Dairy is a food product from the mammary glands of a mammal. Dairy products include all cheeses, yogurts, and so forth. Some people mistakenly think dairy includes eggs (perhaps because you can find them in the diary section of supermarkets) but as far as I know, chickens are not mammals.

Dairy contains insulin growth factors (IGF) which have been shown to feed growth in prostate and breast cancers. In the United States virtually all of our dairy products come from animals that are loaded with growth hormones and antibiotics which pass directly on to us. Humans do not need (mother's) milk after they have been weaned and the pituitary gland is mature enough to regulate organ growth, which occurs by the time a child reaches 24 months. Cows milk is perfect for baby cows which have to double in size and weight very quickly but humans don't need those growth parameters. I suspect that juvenile diabetes (my youngest has it), early puberty, and childhood obesity are related to too much dairy products. In rural China where there is virtually zero intake of dairy the rate of prostate cancer is 1 in 100,000. Breast cancer is 1 in 80,000. In the USA prostate cancer affects 1 in 6 men and 1 in 8 women get breast cancer. When Chinese immigrate to the West and adopt our diet their cancer rates are the same as all the others from European ancestry so I don't think it's a genetic thing. You may wish to learn more about diary and its impact on prostate and breast cancer. I recommend Professor Jane Plant’s books, “Prostate Cancer” and “Your Life in Your Hands” as a good starting point or research her work on the internet. Interestingly, man is the only animal that knowingly drinks the milk of another species as a regular food source.

A book I read last year that changed my whole outlook on eating is called “The China Study” based on detailed review of dietary and disease statistics across the Han population in China. What they basically found is that a diet comprised of less than 15% animal products virtually eliminates the “rich nation diseases” such as cancer, dementia, diabetes, MS, heart disease, and so forth. It’s a big book but an easy read. In the USA the cattle industry feeds the animals corn to make them fat and get that marbled texture we love so much. Cows are supposed to be grass eaters, not corn eaters. To compensate for the artificial diet the cattle are kept in gigantic feed lots and fed several times a day. Because of the conditions in these feed lots where the cows stand knee deep in manure and they require heavy injections of antibiotics. They also receive significant growth hormones to accelerate their growth so they can go to slaughter sooner. This all ends up with a food product loaded with growth hormones and antibiotics that are associated with cancer and heart disease.

Instead of trying to manage every specific thing I eat I just avoid dairy and try to keep my protein from animal sources to less than 15% overall. I try to eat some meat each month and stick to the organic beef. I do eat some seafood as well but stick to ocean fish. That lets me splurge occasionally if I feel like it and it keeps my weight, cholesterol, and heart going well. We recently got a Vitamix blender so I am eating (rather drinking) a lot more vegetables than ever before (I never really liked veggies) and increasing fiber as well.

Instead of dairy, I use almond milk or rice milk. I also drink soy milk but find I don’t like it as much as either rice or almond. You might try making your own milk if you have the equipment and the rice and almonds are available. It only takes a blender and water. There are recipes on the internet.

Everyone has a different philosophy about diet. It’s a complicated subject but I’m pretty sure that there is no single miracle pill, or group of pills, that will solve our health problems.

With respect to exercise, I don’t go to the gym or anything fancy. I just don’t have time in my schedule. What I do is walk. I try to walk early in the morning and in the evening for at least a mile. When I travel I walk between terminals in airports and stake out neighborhoods to explore. I’ve got a pair of very light weight walking shoes that now have a spot in my carry-on bag. Walking is great exercise and it is a good way to think and unwind after a hectic day.

Since my Gleason 6 PCa was treated two years ago with SBRT (CyberKnife) I have had zero side effects and my PSA is now well below 1 and still declining. The diagnosis was a wake-up call and in many ways it was one of the best things that has happened to me. I am much more knowledgeable about my body, what is going on with it, and how I need to take care of it. It has also enabled me to better put things in perspective and set the right priorities. Compared to cancer, all the things I used to get anxious about just don't seem that relevant anymore. I enjoy reading and studying about prostate cancer and try to learn something new about it every day. I also think that those of us who have dealt with this disease should share our knowledge with those who are just starting their journey and offer advice and empathy when it makes sense. The world would be a better place if we would all just give back a little.

Tony, you are doing great for your age. Keep at it.

K

Diet and exercise
Kongo
Thank you again for being so considerate with your always useful information.
Regarding milk. I had almost none during the war then in 1947 my father bought a few cows and we gouged on milk and I became addicted to it. But I eventually found that it was not good for me for many reasons. That's why I started to drink non fat milk. It does not taste nearly as good as full cream milk so it was easy to switch to Soy milk. But I have never tasted rice milk. But it is available here. But as with everything else it is probably full of sugar. I have a very strong blender so maybe I can make my own soy milk, or even rice milk. Almonds are not grown here and are very expensive.
When I was younger I tried every sort of diet to keep my weight down. None of them worked.
But then I found that a very easy diet of eating nutritious food seemed to work. I gave up fast food, fried food and sugar and eventually soft drinks. I drink diet coke and use artificial sweetener a lot.
My big problem is that I now live to eat. At my age it seems the only pleasure I have in life. All my friends who are in their seventies are the same. We go out and eat in new restaurants when ever we find one. We don't go to bars or discos any more.
Never the less I am now going to try to follow a so called anti cancer diet. If I have to give up something something tasty. For instance steak, I will eat some grilled salmon instead. I take soy milk instead of milk on my cereal. Hardest thing to omit will be bacon, ham and sausages.
Like you, having cancer also gave me a sort of wake up call. Before I was getting a little weary of my life reflecting too much on my past. Now I feel glad to be alive and have a goal to achieve. That is to try and beat the cancer just like I beat very poor health when I was young by exercising.
keep in touch
Tony

Swingshiftworker said:

A Heart Healthy Diet
Tony:

The recommended diet for cancer patients is basically the same as recommended for a healthy heart (cardiovascualar system).

If you haven't seen it already, take a look at the USCF paper on "Nutrition and Prostate Cancer" here: http://cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_prostate.pdf.

The things to look out for specific to PCa are excess calcium and iron intake. Otherwise, generally speaking, the recommendation is to cut out refined sugars and grains, alcohol, fat, to eat more fruit/veggies/fish and to reduce intake of red meat, salt & sodium nitrates (eg., bacon/sausages) & dairy products.

This doesn't mean you can't eat any red meat, salt or dairy products (or any other food) at all, just don't eat too much and just reduce the intake of those things as much as you can.

IMHO, at your age, you've already beat the odds and I really wouldn't be all that worried about eating the things you enjoy in life, as long as you don't take it to the extreme.

You're more likely to simply die of old age than you are of PCa (because you drank too much whole milk or ate too much steak, bacon, ham or sausages). So, why deny yourself?

FWIW, my mother is 98 years old and loves Lay's potato chips and See's coffee candy. I give her as much as she wants and she hasn't died yet. George Burns smoked cigars daily until he died at 100.

Life is too short (especially for us "old" folks). So, enjoy it as best you can and don't sweat the small stuff.

Good luck!!!!

Heart healthy, polyphenol, enjoyed in moderation is the very essence of the good life. Don't take it away with an arbitrary "cut out alcohol". Antioxidant involved in the health of those little blood vessels. Ah, a good glass or two of cabernet a day keeps the docs away. Sip one brings to mind of vision of those blood vessels popping to attention while getting hardy. Skold.

Swingshiftworker said:

Not My Recommendation
Ob:

The recommendation for a heart healthy diet includes the call for the reduction or omission of alcohol.

It's not MY recommendation and, as I suggested to Tony, there's no need follow such recommendations blindly or to deny yourself simple eating/drinking pleasures for fear that doing so will cause or promote cancer, provided you don't go overboard.

Although I've cut alcohol almost totally out of my diet, I have over $1k in wine -- some very good CA cabs, pinots and sparkling wines worth more than $100 a bottle - sitting in my wine cellar (actually a closet) -- and I drink it whenever the opportunity arises, albeit less frequency that I once did.

I have also been known to still drink a tumbler w/couple shots of Jack over ice, or to drink a glass of port or brandy accompanied w/some dark chocolate and/or a fine cigar but, again, not as frequently as I once did.

Ciao!

Enjoying
Swingshiftworker,

My ONC caught me smelling of a cigar. He went off. Anyhow I have a timeshare in St. Martin and go there every year. When I came back and visited my ONC. He asked me if I had smoked and I told him I smoked three Churchills during the wee. They cost $15.00 each now compared to six dollars in 2010. He went off and I laughed.
When they foundnthe first nodule in my lung they saidnitnwas from my previous smoking. I quit smoking in 1985. They said had to be the reason. Anyhow 4 more nodules showed up. They did a real biopsy and found it was prostate cancer. So I figured no matter what I do it is beingnblamed from mysmoking. I started snoking cigars in 2011. I do not smoke all the time. Can notngetbCubans here and the others do not appeal to me.

Can not win for losing. I might only jave 12 aa year but if they taste good it is worth it. Don't change your style because it works for you. My motto, now, is: If it feels good, do it.

Mike

Take a look at this re. meat

This man is researching nutrition in the u.k. He beleives that cells can be repaired and apoptosis induced using naturally occuring nutrients in organic foods. He is dead against red meat. I am not making any comment/opinion about him or his work other than to show that serious research has and is taking place by many scientists all over the world.

DJBUK


CONVENTIONAL AND ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE
Please do not confuse yourself to believe, that any subject relating to Nutrition and Medicine, must be framed in the field of Alternative or Complementary Medicine.

In the e-mail; that follows, we have included titles of 260 Medical References relating to meat consumption and cancer.
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Unfortunately, in the year 2011, in which commercial interests are taking prevalence over human life and health matters, little attention has been paid to disseminate the crucial results of this important science and medicine research subject.

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