CEA -- when is it a "good" marker?

JayhawkDan
JayhawkDan Member Posts: 205
in Colorectal Cancer #1
I read a lot about CEA either being a good marker, or not. Wondered what mine might be considered. Dx February 2nd, this year, and have had 7 full chemo treatments -- folfiri, vectibix, and my CEA has dropped every time. Started at 44, then 43, 12, 4.2, 1.8, 1.4, 1.1, 0.9, and Wednesday it was 0.7. My dx was chemo for life, terminal, non-operable. My oncologist is happy with the results but I can't drag much info out of him. I know that under 3 is considered "normal" which seems to be a lousy description when the cancer is still extensive. Whadya think? Oh, and I've had one scan (late April) since the orignal and it showed the primary in rectum, as well as multiple lesions in liver and a couple of nodes, all had shrunk to about half the original.

Thanks, Dan

Comments

  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    #2
    no idea dan except, the the marker is going down its great
    hi dan,

    mines been going up about the same way yours is going down and no spots found in me so far.
    go figure. i am completely confused but taking the optomistic view. but 45 for my cea is getting up.

    i'll answer your question properly when i know how mine behaves.

    i am doing other tests like ctc's and nagalase to confirm the effectiveness of treatment strategies. cea is all i got at the moment, and lots can cuase it to rise.

    i get the nagalase results in a week, so then i will know more about the accuracy of the cea.

    sounds good that all your nodes have shrunk.

    another general answer to your question is "when it never goes up" , i wish that was how mine behaved.

    hugs,pete
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    #3
    Hi Dan
    CEA can be vague and confusing but over time it can SOMETIMES provide insight as to how an individual is doing. I've been at this for over 8 years so I've seen trends in MY CEA over the years that coincide with operations or procedures that I've had. My CEA never rose above 8.4 either even though I was dx with Stage IV colon cancer.

    That being said, seeing your CEA drop is generally a good thing but scans and other tests are more accurate. It's great news that your last scan showed that tumors shrunk. It's hard to project into the future as far as being on chemo for life etc. as there are new therapies that come out all the time. I've benefitted from Avastin (which made me operable almost 8 years ago) and Erbitux which has slowed and/or stabilized the spots I have in my lungs.

    I don't think that anyone can give you a solid answer Dan since CEA varies between patients as do their individual cancers and their responses to treatments. Have you looked into dietary and/or lifestyle changes or alternate treatments to help with and no necessarily replace what you're doing?
    -phil
  • janderson1964
    janderson1964 Member Posts: 2,215 Member
    #4
    My CEA has always been
    My CEA has always been around 1 even before an after all of my surgeries so it is not a good indicator for me. I have to rely solely on scans.
  • dmj101
    dmj101 Member Posts: 527 Member
    #5
    obviously your CEA is a responsive one
    CEA is not always an indicator for everyone.. me in case point.. my CEA has always been 2..
    under 3 is normal range.. so that being said.. mine in non responsive.. only scans and pathologies will reflect my cancer.

    Yours is awesome.. keep on doing what ever it is you are doing and you will be great!!!!

    Peace..
    Donna
  • steved
    steved Member Posts: 834 Member
    #6
    It is individual
    It really depends on your individual tumour. When I first had rectal cancer my cea never rose but now on recurrence it has and its fluctuations do seem now to correspond with clinical signs. Ultimately it is a piece of information that you put into the pot with your scan results and how you feel clinically ie the symptoms of your cancer, in order to assess how well your cancer is responding to treatment. No one piece of information is that useful but put together they are the best way we have to monitor the situation.

    Your cea seems to correspond with your scan results and so is probably a reasonable marker of how your tumour is. Overall, it sounds like you have had a great response to the treatment and that indicates taht you are probably on meds that are at present effective in treating your cancer.

    Steve
  • JayhawkDan
    JayhawkDan Member Posts: 205
    #7
    steved said:

    It is individual
    It really depends on your individual tumour. When I first had rectal cancer my cea never rose but now on recurrence it has and its fluctuations do seem now to correspond with clinical signs. Ultimately it is a piece of information that you put into the pot with your scan results and how you feel clinically ie the symptoms of your cancer, in order to assess how well your cancer is responding to treatment. No one piece of information is that useful but put together they are the best way we have to monitor the situation.

    Your cea seems to correspond with your scan results and so is probably a reasonable marker of how your tumour is. Overall, it sounds like you have had a great response to the treatment and that indicates taht you are probably on meds that are at present effective in treating your cancer.

    Steve

    Thanks all...
    It's really unknowable, and I know that...haha. I'm still pretty new at this and just looking for anything positive, and the dropping CEA is that. I want to think it may have some sort of long-term gauge of what I might do, but I know that I'm grasping for something, anything, that may indicate I can fight this for a significant amount of time.
  • Doc_Hawk
    Doc_Hawk Member Posts: 685
    #8
    CEA
    I agree with Pete: for me it's a good marker when it doesn't go up. But even when it does, I'm optimistic that it's an aberration and that has always been the case so far. My last reading was !29.9 down from 151.2 which was up from 143.4. My onc and I won't get real concerned unless it increases three times in a row. Just like others have commented, I do not rely on it alone but also on scans and other tests. The numbers that I watch more closely are one the metabolic panel and when they drop or rise out of range, I adjust my diet accordingly.
  • sjm1965
    sjm1965 Member Posts: 2
    #9
    My mum was diagnosed last week 1st June '12 - CEA 15,000
    I am still trying to come to grips with a number like that when Dr said acceptable is under 3.

    What the?

    We checked her records and her last endoscopy and colonoscopy was 26 Oct 11 - both all clear...7 mths and she is stage 4 aggressive bowel cancer plus liver lungs pelvis spine and bones...
    Do we have any chance at all???? Like ANY?
  • geotina
    geotina Member Posts: 2,111 Member
    #10
    CEA
    Just so it is going down and not spiking up things are good. We will take good, stable, any day.

    Take care - Tina
  • Lovekitties
    Lovekitties Member Posts: 3,364 Member
    #11
    sjm1965 said:

    My mum was diagnosed last week 1st June '12 - CEA 15,000
    I am still trying to come to grips with a number like that when Dr said acceptable is under 3.

    What the?

    We checked her records and her last endoscopy and colonoscopy was 26 Oct 11 - both all clear...7 mths and she is stage 4 aggressive bowel cancer plus liver lungs pelvis spine and bones...
    Do we have any chance at all???? Like ANY?

    One can never be sure
    With a cancer diagnosis, one can never be sure how much time is left. Hope is something we must hold in our hearts.

    Has her medical team made any recommendations for treatment?

    For some the CEA levels can be extremely high, as with your mother, while for others they have stage 4 and CEA has never been out of the normal range.

    Cancer is never the same for all persons, which is one of the things which makes it difficult to fight.

    Praying that the doctors can begin a treatment for your mother which will give her much more time with your family.

    Hugs,

    Marie who loves kitties
  • sjm1965
    sjm1965 Member Posts: 2
    #12
    Lovekitties said:

    One can never be sure
    With a cancer diagnosis, one can never be sure how much time is left. Hope is something we must hold in our hearts.

    Has her medical team made any recommendations for treatment?

    For some the CEA levels can be extremely high, as with your mother, while for others they have stage 4 and CEA has never been out of the normal range.

    Cancer is never the same for all persons, which is one of the things which makes it difficult to fight.

    Praying that the doctors can begin a treatment for your mother which will give her much more time with your family.

    Hugs,

    Marie who loves kitties

    Her chemo started on Friday
    I have been pleading for her to get up and walk around as I have read nutrition and exercise is really important, but she is already on walking stick, she keeps saying she will walk when she feels better but she may never feel better I am soooo frustrated!!! I am constantly putting food out for her to pick at, and trying to get her to eat... this is way too hard... she knows what she needs to do but I cant get her to do it.

    Everything is organic and healthy raw vegetables and juices and I am trying to make it as nice as possible but I am not very good at it. I know its not great but I tell her to consider it as medicine.I am struggling to get anything with calories into her. Its a mind problem as she is worried about putting on weight, but from what I understand that would be a bonus.

    She is in pain, I understand that, but it may improve with more activity and the nutrients building her up.

    How do people do this?
  • march15
    march15 Member Posts: 12
    #13
    sjm1965 said:

    Her chemo started on Friday
    I have been pleading for her to get up and walk around as I have read nutrition and exercise is really important, but she is already on walking stick, she keeps saying she will walk when she feels better but she may never feel better I am soooo frustrated!!! I am constantly putting food out for her to pick at, and trying to get her to eat... this is way too hard... she knows what she needs to do but I cant get her to do it.

    Everything is organic and healthy raw vegetables and juices and I am trying to make it as nice as possible but I am not very good at it. I know its not great but I tell her to consider it as medicine.I am struggling to get anything with calories into her. Its a mind problem as she is worried about putting on weight, but from what I understand that would be a bonus.

    She is in pain, I understand that, but it may improve with more activity and the nutrients building her up.

    How do people do this?

    eating healthy
    The only thing I could handle when I was so sick was Ensure. Not organic but it kept enough weight on me so I could have surgery. And yes some weight on is good I think. It keeps you going when you can't keep things down or can't eat. I am now 2 years cancer free and my CEA is 1.2. Hang in there..........being a caregiver is hard, but there is always hope when someone loves you enough to take care of you and you are special! Also, I wasn't always cooperative with my husband, or so he says. I';; be praying for you and your Mom.

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