Testing blood to determine best chemo

eightpawz
eightpawz Member Posts: 28
in Colorectal Cancer #1
Hey, anybody ever heard of this? Not sure exactly awhat they call it, I believe it was profiling or something. It's done in Greece. They take a sample of blood and test the cancer markers in the blood to determine the best course of chemo.

I just had a naturopath talk to me about it.

-Dawn

Comments

  • Lovekitties
    Lovekitties Member Posts: 3,364 Member
    #2
    Hi Dawn
    I spent quite a while trying to find current information on the testing that you describe. I beleive it is called Chemo Sensitivity and Resistance Assays.

    Mainstream medicine does not seem to have embraced this testing at least as far as I can tell. The reason seems to be that it does not appear accurate enough and docs are afraid to by-pass any conventional treatment options.

    Pete may know more about this as he has done considerable studying on alternatives.

    It is also my understanding that the testing can be very pricey so you may want to check with your insurance to see if they will or won't cover it.

    I suggest you ask your naturopath for source material which leads him/her to suggest it.

    Please let us know as you learn more.

    Marie who loves kitties
  • Kathryn_in_MN
    Kathryn_in_MN Member Posts: 1,252 Member
    #3
    Tumor testing
    I've known a few people that have done tumor testing, but not blood testing.
  • dmj101
    dmj101 Member Posts: 527 Member
    #4
    yes
    They do this to see if you are a candidate for biological agents..
    That is what the KRAS mutant isyu.. if you carry it bio agents are not good for you .. but if you don't they may be the key to putting you into remission.. I am not a mutant.. so I am doing both Chemo and Bio agents.
    They also test for restistant strains of the disease based on the bio markers in your blood and your pathologies.
    They have been doing this on mine now at my new Onc's.
    Very techy and very exciting.
  • Annabelle41415
    Annabelle41415 Member Posts: 6,742 Member
    #5
    Testing
    Are you from a different country because I'd be surprised if the US sends blood tests out to another country, but I've never had it done so I'm not sure. Good luck to finding out the results.

    Kim
  • dmj101
    dmj101 Member Posts: 527 Member
    #6
    Annabelle41415 said:

    Testing
    Are you from a different country because I'd be surprised if the US sends blood tests out to another country, but I've never had it done so I'm not sure. Good luck to finding out the results.

    Kim

    @ Anna
    They are doing this in the US.. I am in New Jersey and though I am not going to Sloan Kettering my new doc is huge in research and finding the right fits.. she knows one size doesn't fit all.. Also the hospital is a teaching hospital so I think that naturally makes them more agressive.. She is a Sloan veteran..

    And it doesn't hurt that I have some knowledge of whats out there that can be done as I work for the top cancer clinical research - drug trial company in the world... I am not clinical but I have learned alot thru osmosis and reading what my company is doing... I work in HR- Systems - Training and Development and I test allot of the e-trainings that are clincal and business related for techy stuff and you can't help but absorb some of it- if you are living it.. you know what I mean...
    When I was first diagnosis and drs were talking to me they were surprised I didn't glaze over when they got deep into the clinical parts..

    Btw.. tests they do for Thyroid Cancers are sent to specific labs in Germany and California.. no matter where you are located... if you ask you will be surprised what happens with ALL the samples you give up...

    Last year when I had my resection I was contacted by pathology to approve special testing for research purposes.. I had to sign a release that this was ok.. Did you know your pathologies are held for 10 years before disposed .. that means what they take out of you is in a jar somewhere.. I was shocked to hear 10 years - I had thought at the most 3 years. As my new onc is looking at my thyroid and rectum parts for testing to see if there are similarities at all. Which blew me away as I have always been told.. they were 2 totally different cells.. Who knows really what they are capable of doing,.
    They don't really make it public knowledge and it is sad - the reason being is that if they do they loose funding as people will think they have all the answers already...
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    #7
    my onc said it's an expensive piece of poop, the test results
    As I am a bit alternative, I followed the alt recommendations
    I have published my test results on my blog have a read.

    They cost 4600 aid, it's alot for the benefit, but it hooked me into he clutches of focused alternative doctors and naturipaths. I am happy with my journey but it is not easy and no guarantees. But I feel good.

    My chemo results from the test basically echoed standard medical protocols the alt recommendatons well vit c, quercitin, and artemisibnin. Just lookup most of my posts or replies and it echoes issues from these tests.

    Now there are other better tests.

    I would learn to meditate like a monk or pray like a nun because dealing
    Conflicting medical treatments and opinions is not for the faint hearted.

    Hugs,
    Pete

    Ps if you got the dough just do it, I bet yours would be the same. How much
    Were you quoted ? We get shafted here on the price of these tests.
  • eightpawz
    eightpawz Member Posts: 28
    #8
    pete43lost_at_sea said:

    my onc said it's an expensive piece of poop, the test results
    As I am a bit alternative, I followed the alt recommendations
    I have published my test results on my blog have a read.

    They cost 4600 aid, it's alot for the benefit, but it hooked me into he clutches of focused alternative doctors and naturipaths. I am happy with my journey but it is not easy and no guarantees. But I feel good.

    My chemo results from the test basically echoed standard medical protocols the alt recommendatons well vit c, quercitin, and artemisibnin. Just lookup most of my posts or replies and it echoes issues from these tests.

    Now there are other better tests.

    I would learn to meditate like a monk or pray like a nun because dealing
    Conflicting medical treatments and opinions is not for the faint hearted.

    Hugs,
    Pete

    Ps if you got the dough just do it, I bet yours would be the same. How much
    Were you quoted ? We get shafted here on the price of these tests.

    Quote
    I was quoted $3,100 for the test. They said it goes to Greece.

    It has nothing to do with the KRAS mutation, as mentioned, I already had that. Yes, I am KRAS.

    Thanks for all the input.

    -Dawn
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    #9
    eightpawz said:

    Quote
    I was quoted $3,100 for the test. They said it goes to Greece.

    It has nothing to do with the KRAS mutation, as mentioned, I already had that. Yes, I am KRAS.

    Thanks for all the input.

    -Dawn

    when you say i am kras
    does that mean you are a mutant?

    3100 is a better price, my alternative doctor here say their are better tests.

    i know a few alternative doctors here do not send patients blood to greece.

    would i do it again, maybe yes, just.

    goodluck.

    hugs,
    pete
  • dmj101
    dmj101 Member Posts: 527 Member
    #10
    pete43lost_at_sea said:

    when you say i am kras
    does that mean you are a mutant?

    3100 is a better price, my alternative doctor here say their are better tests.

    i know a few alternative doctors here do not send patients blood to greece.

    would i do it again, maybe yes, just.

    goodluck.

    hugs,
    pete

    I guess it all does come down to cost .. how sad:(
    In the US.. most insurance will not cover alternative routines.
    However anything done by an approved dr.. they will consider.. I have really good insurance working in the med/pharma industry.. but even so alternative medicine payments are limited and will cost you out of pocket.
    I have been lucky to have few out of pocket expensives. Except for a tummy tuck I had done for medical purposes to make my colostomy sit properly wasn't paid for so I have $30000USD bill siting over me.. and I get this .. I make just $5000/yr more than the limits to get any public assistance.. I made the right decission go to have the tuck.. but didn't know at the time ir wouldn't be covered as it is a oosmetic procedure.. but it saved the insurance several thousand dollars in all the subsequent surgeries that would have resulted from ulcerations and hernia.. no one thinks..
  • steved
    steved Member Posts: 834 Member
    #11
    dmj101 said:

    I guess it all does come down to cost .. how sad:(
    In the US.. most insurance will not cover alternative routines.
    However anything done by an approved dr.. they will consider.. I have really good insurance working in the med/pharma industry.. but even so alternative medicine payments are limited and will cost you out of pocket.
    I have been lucky to have few out of pocket expensives. Except for a tummy tuck I had done for medical purposes to make my colostomy sit properly wasn't paid for so I have $30000USD bill siting over me.. and I get this .. I make just $5000/yr more than the limits to get any public assistance.. I made the right decission go to have the tuck.. but didn't know at the time ir wouldn't be covered as it is a oosmetic procedure.. but it saved the insurance several thousand dollars in all the subsequent surgeries that would have resulted from ulcerations and hernia.. no one thinks..

    This is quite interesting
    This is quite interesting and would like to hear more (though for me is a moot point as they never got enough tumour to even do KRAS on). IfI understand the concept right they use part os the tumour to gorw 'colonies' - new cell groups of teh tumour. They then expose them to high concentrations of chemotherapy agents and look at which are resistant (those that grow umimpeded) and those that are sensitive (are killed off) and different studies look at different things - resistance/ sensitivity. Through this you develop a better cocktail of drugs to fight your tumour. It seems fairly new in colorectal cancer and more has been done in ovarian cancer.

    Have had a brief look at some literature and most suggests that on balance there is not enough evidence for its use regularly as its benefits above normal regimes are not consistent in studies. The only decent quality study Ifound with positive results was this in teh British Journal of CAncer:

    Adenosine triphosphate-based chemotherapy response assay-guided chemotherapy in unresectable colorectal liver metastasis
    Background: This study aims to evaluate the effectiveness of adenosine triphosphate-based chemotherapy response assay (ATP-CRA)-guided neoadjuvant chemotherapy for increasing resectability in patients with unresectable colorectal liver metastasis.

    Patients and methods: Patients were randomised into two groups: Group A was treated by conventional chemotherapy regimen and Group B was treated by chemotherapy regimen according to the ATP-CRA. Three chemotherapeutic agents (5-fluorouracil, oxaliplatin and irinotecan) were tested by ATP-CRA and more sensitive agents were selected. Either FOLFOX or FOLFIRI was administered. Between Group A and B, treatment response and resectability were compared.

    Results: Between November 2008 and October 2010, a total 63 patients were randomised to Group A (N=32) or Group B (N=31). FOLFOX was more preferred in Group A than in Group B (26 out of 32 (81.3%) vs 20 out of 31 (64.5%)). Group B showed better treatment response than Group A (48.4% vs 21.9%, P=0.027). The resectability of hepatic lesion was higher in Group B (35.5% vs 12.5%, P=0.032). Mean duration from chemotherapy onset to the time of liver resection was 11 cycles (range 4–12) in Group A and 8 cycles (range 8–16) in Group B.

    Conclusion: This study showed that tailored-chemotherapy based on ATP-CRA could improve the treatment response and resectability in initially unresectable colorectal liver metastasis.


    However,I also found several others that were negative in their findings and found an interesting description of a debate among leading oncologists that encouraged further research into it as a potential for teh future but didn't recommend its use now.

    Would like to hear more of people's knowledge of this and what they are specifically having done if possible.

    steve
  • steved
    steved Member Posts: 834 Member
    #12
    steved said:

    This is quite interesting
    This is quite interesting and would like to hear more (though for me is a moot point as they never got enough tumour to even do KRAS on). IfI understand the concept right they use part os the tumour to gorw 'colonies' - new cell groups of teh tumour. They then expose them to high concentrations of chemotherapy agents and look at which are resistant (those that grow umimpeded) and those that are sensitive (are killed off) and different studies look at different things - resistance/ sensitivity. Through this you develop a better cocktail of drugs to fight your tumour. It seems fairly new in colorectal cancer and more has been done in ovarian cancer.

    Have had a brief look at some literature and most suggests that on balance there is not enough evidence for its use regularly as its benefits above normal regimes are not consistent in studies. The only decent quality study Ifound with positive results was this in teh British Journal of CAncer:

    Adenosine triphosphate-based chemotherapy response assay-guided chemotherapy in unresectable colorectal liver metastasis
    Background: This study aims to evaluate the effectiveness of adenosine triphosphate-based chemotherapy response assay (ATP-CRA)-guided neoadjuvant chemotherapy for increasing resectability in patients with unresectable colorectal liver metastasis.

    Patients and methods: Patients were randomised into two groups: Group A was treated by conventional chemotherapy regimen and Group B was treated by chemotherapy regimen according to the ATP-CRA. Three chemotherapeutic agents (5-fluorouracil, oxaliplatin and irinotecan) were tested by ATP-CRA and more sensitive agents were selected. Either FOLFOX or FOLFIRI was administered. Between Group A and B, treatment response and resectability were compared.

    Results: Between November 2008 and October 2010, a total 63 patients were randomised to Group A (N=32) or Group B (N=31). FOLFOX was more preferred in Group A than in Group B (26 out of 32 (81.3%) vs 20 out of 31 (64.5%)). Group B showed better treatment response than Group A (48.4% vs 21.9%, P=0.027). The resectability of hepatic lesion was higher in Group B (35.5% vs 12.5%, P=0.032). Mean duration from chemotherapy onset to the time of liver resection was 11 cycles (range 4–12) in Group A and 8 cycles (range 8–16) in Group B.

    Conclusion: This study showed that tailored-chemotherapy based on ATP-CRA could improve the treatment response and resectability in initially unresectable colorectal liver metastasis.


    However,I also found several others that were negative in their findings and found an interesting description of a debate among leading oncologists that encouraged further research into it as a potential for teh future but didn't recommend its use now.

    Would like to hear more of people's knowledge of this and what they are specifically having done if possible.

    steve

    Useful infor
    There is a very interesting discussion on this topic with some (quite heavy) knowledgable posts from the ovarian ogroup on the linkbelow:

    http://csn.cancer.org/node/216003

    steve
  • dmj101
    dmj101 Member Posts: 527 Member
    #13
    steved said:

    This is quite interesting
    This is quite interesting and would like to hear more (though for me is a moot point as they never got enough tumour to even do KRAS on). IfI understand the concept right they use part os the tumour to gorw 'colonies' - new cell groups of teh tumour. They then expose them to high concentrations of chemotherapy agents and look at which are resistant (those that grow umimpeded) and those that are sensitive (are killed off) and different studies look at different things - resistance/ sensitivity. Through this you develop a better cocktail of drugs to fight your tumour. It seems fairly new in colorectal cancer and more has been done in ovarian cancer.

    Have had a brief look at some literature and most suggests that on balance there is not enough evidence for its use regularly as its benefits above normal regimes are not consistent in studies. The only decent quality study Ifound with positive results was this in teh British Journal of CAncer:

    Adenosine triphosphate-based chemotherapy response assay-guided chemotherapy in unresectable colorectal liver metastasis
    Background: This study aims to evaluate the effectiveness of adenosine triphosphate-based chemotherapy response assay (ATP-CRA)-guided neoadjuvant chemotherapy for increasing resectability in patients with unresectable colorectal liver metastasis.

    Patients and methods: Patients were randomised into two groups: Group A was treated by conventional chemotherapy regimen and Group B was treated by chemotherapy regimen according to the ATP-CRA. Three chemotherapeutic agents (5-fluorouracil, oxaliplatin and irinotecan) were tested by ATP-CRA and more sensitive agents were selected. Either FOLFOX or FOLFIRI was administered. Between Group A and B, treatment response and resectability were compared.

    Results: Between November 2008 and October 2010, a total 63 patients were randomised to Group A (N=32) or Group B (N=31). FOLFOX was more preferred in Group A than in Group B (26 out of 32 (81.3%) vs 20 out of 31 (64.5%)). Group B showed better treatment response than Group A (48.4% vs 21.9%, P=0.027). The resectability of hepatic lesion was higher in Group B (35.5% vs 12.5%, P=0.032). Mean duration from chemotherapy onset to the time of liver resection was 11 cycles (range 4–12) in Group A and 8 cycles (range 8–16) in Group B.

    Conclusion: This study showed that tailored-chemotherapy based on ATP-CRA could improve the treatment response and resectability in initially unresectable colorectal liver metastasis.


    However,I also found several others that were negative in their findings and found an interesting description of a debate among leading oncologists that encouraged further research into it as a potential for teh future but didn't recommend its use now.

    Would like to hear more of people's knowledge of this and what they are specifically having done if possible.

    steve

    comes down to knowing what we are looking for
    unfortunately..you can find answers or rasults that appear positive or negative in either direction.. so it just comes down to what you want to believe sometimes..
    There is so much info and opinions ot there..
    Use your best judgement..

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