Are natural remedies snake oil or promising
Comments
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Vitamin C
I myself eat a lot of foods high in vitamin C,just to let you know,did you relize a bell pepper has almost 3 times the vitamin C content compared to an orange,also broccoli has almost twice the amount of vitamin C compared to an orange and both have hardlley any carbs if you are one those people who counts their carb intake,just thought I would share this.0 -
Vitamin C etcLimelife50 said:Vitamin C
I myself eat a lot of foods high in vitamin C,just to let you know,did you relize a bell pepper has almost 3 times the vitamin C content compared to an orange,also broccoli has almost twice the amount of vitamin C compared to an orange and both have hardlley any carbs if you are one those people who counts their carb intake,just thought I would share this.
Ah! but how do they compare with the vitamin C content of limes?!
I go with that - cooked us a mixed bell pepper stir-fry last night, eat broccoli frequently and take a largish dose of vitamin C powder daily at breakfast (in grapefruit juice - makes it nice and sour!) . By the way, did you know that in 'the western diet' the major source of vitamin C intake for many is from potatoes. They are not very high in C but contribute significantly because of the quantity of them many of us eat.
On the general question framed by j_rod, this man's take is that one should seek out natural remedies but exercise [love exercise!] careful judgment on what one believes. Just as Big Pharma has a lot to answer for, so there are plenty of exploitative people in the health food and dietary supplement businesses. There are also many kooks and well-meaning cranks with idees fixes.
I think it's important to recognise that over the centuries of 'modern' science, just as in the ancient Chinese pharmacopeia, the major source of useful medicines has been the plant world. I believe (but will stand correction by anyone better informed) that even in the process of engineering new synthetic drugs, observation of the effects of natural substances is often the inspiration or guide to what we're looking for.
My approach is to entertain all claims for wonder foods, but critically. If many different reputable sources (a value judgment called for here, obviously) are saying the same thing, I follow it up, usually hoping to find a scientific justification for the claims or, at least, some sound vindicating evidence. The medical authorities on both sides of the Atlantic have various websites that contain plenty of useful info on foods and supplements.0 -
Thank youTexas_wedge said:Vitamin C etc
Ah! but how do they compare with the vitamin C content of limes?!
I go with that - cooked us a mixed bell pepper stir-fry last night, eat broccoli frequently and take a largish dose of vitamin C powder daily at breakfast (in grapefruit juice - makes it nice and sour!) . By the way, did you know that in 'the western diet' the major source of vitamin C intake for many is from potatoes. They are not very high in C but contribute significantly because of the quantity of them many of us eat.
On the general question framed by j_rod, this man's take is that one should seek out natural remedies but exercise [love exercise!] careful judgment on what one believes. Just as Big Pharma has a lot to answer for, so there are plenty of exploitative people in the health food and dietary supplement businesses. There are also many kooks and well-meaning cranks with idees fixes.
I think it's important to recognise that over the centuries of 'modern' science, just as in the ancient Chinese pharmacopeia, the major source of useful medicines has been the plant world. I believe (but will stand correction by anyone better informed) that even in the process of engineering new synthetic drugs, observation of the effects of natural substances is often the inspiration or guide to what we're looking for.
My approach is to entertain all claims for wonder foods, but critically. If many different reputable sources (a value judgment called for here, obviously) are saying the same thing, I follow it up, usually hoping to find a scientific justification for the claims or, at least, some sound vindicating evidence. The medical authorities on both sides of the Atlantic have various websites that contain plenty of useful info on foods and supplements.
I guess in my research and in talking with others, I have found much of the studies pointing to diet and exercise. Couple that with the fact that each visit that I have with a doctor they ask at least twice each visit if I am taking any supplements - natural or homeopathic or herbals. I am taking the one that increases the body's immune system - HCCG? Shitake mushroom capsules - I figure it can't hurt.0 -
Please provide a list ?j_rod said:Thank you
I guess in my research and in talking with others, I have found much of the studies pointing to diet and exercise. Couple that with the fact that each visit that I have with a doctor they ask at least twice each visit if I am taking any supplements - natural or homeopathic or herbals. I am taking the one that increases the body's immune system - HCCG? Shitake mushroom capsules - I figure it can't hurt.
Vegetarian - i.e. no meat, no eggs, no fish, no cheese with animal rennet/enzymes - so can I get a list guys ? More ambiguity leads to confusion for the simple minded here..
I caught peppers and broccoli, potatoes come with starch, I do a glass of carrot and kale in the morning, wheatgrass if it's grown, have an old 15 year juicer which refuses to give up, so I could get one of those cold press ones...
Also, my post, on trials, etc. I know is long, but if you'll can please write some thoughts, it's not going to be easy spending time on that one...but if you would ?
1 List
2 Thoughts on my post..
In gratitude,
Raj.0 -
Hi Rajlivealive said:Please provide a list ?
Vegetarian - i.e. no meat, no eggs, no fish, no cheese with animal rennet/enzymes - so can I get a list guys ? More ambiguity leads to confusion for the simple minded here..
I caught peppers and broccoli, potatoes come with starch, I do a glass of carrot and kale in the morning, wheatgrass if it's grown, have an old 15 year juicer which refuses to give up, so I could get one of those cold press ones...
Also, my post, on trials, etc. I know is long, but if you'll can please write some thoughts, it's not going to be easy spending time on that one...but if you would ?
1 List
2 Thoughts on my post..
In gratitude,
Raj.
I am no dietician ,but for me I am a carb counter,You mentioned you juice carrots,for me the carbs in carrots out weigh the benefits,the foods I go for ate high in vitamin C and vitamin A with both green peppers and broccoli being high in both.Also I recommend green beens and asparagus but then again it is the approach I have taken as far as this being the silver bullet i don't know ,but my new diet is so much better than my eating habits before my cancer dx.0 -
Carbs, Carrots - FoodLimelife50 said:Hi Raj
I am no dietician ,but for me I am a carb counter,You mentioned you juice carrots,for me the carbs in carrots out weigh the benefits,the foods I go for ate high in vitamin C and vitamin A with both green peppers and broccoli being high in both.Also I recommend green beens and asparagus but then again it is the approach I have taken as far as this being the silver bullet i don't know ,but my new diet is so much better than my eating habits before my cancer dx.
Hey Limelife, thank you. I have not even thought of carbs in carrots, rather, I thought, when hungry, eat a carrot, or, 2, or 4, i.e. it's a low calorie snack, you make me rethink what I presumed.
We do bell peppers, I like the orange and yellow ones, so are these as good as the green ? Asparagus is good, my wife stir fries or steams this...green beans are cooked Indian style..
I guess I can try and get the basics right, the rest is not in my control anyway, as one doctor put it "I am sorry, you are not in control".
Thank you.
R0 -
Healthy dietlivealive said:Carbs, Carrots - Food
Hey Limelife, thank you. I have not even thought of carbs in carrots, rather, I thought, when hungry, eat a carrot, or, 2, or 4, i.e. it's a low calorie snack, you make me rethink what I presumed.
We do bell peppers, I like the orange and yellow ones, so are these as good as the green ? Asparagus is good, my wife stir fries or steams this...green beans are cooked Indian style..
I guess I can try and get the basics right, the rest is not in my control anyway, as one doctor put it "I am sorry, you are not in control".
Thank you.
R
R, I'm going to respond to you elsewhere also but here I'll just say that I would guess you have had an excellent diet for years and don't have anything to worry about on that front it's one less thing you need to fret about.
Limelife, it's great to hear you've got yourself a top-class diet now, which will tip the odds further in your favour. I don't agree about the carrots but that's a trivial matter. I am interested, though, to know why you count carbs. Have you had a weight problem or is there some other reason?0 -
Diet and exercise
Hi j_rod,
I can't speak to natural remedies but I can speak to diet and exercise. I am a very athletic person (weekly power yoga, dance, Pilates, daily dog walks, hiking/skiing on weekends) and cook all my food from scratch using fresh ingredients. I am also something of a wine connoisseur (but my doctor says that's okay ;-).
Adopting this lifestyle (>10 years ago) has helped me successfully battle a chronic illness, so that I no longer require medication. Although it did not prevent my kidney cancer, I believe it may have saved my life. I am highly attuned to any changes in my fitness level. Although my tumour was very small (1.9 cm), the fatigue I was feeling just wasn't normal. This led to early detection and I hope my doctors are right when they say it's highly unlikely to return.
Last but not least, my fitness level has really helped in my recovery from surgery. I am already walking every day and am looking forward to gradually easing back into my routine.
I wish you all the best with your upcoming surgery.0 -
Yes I was overweightTexas_wedge said:Healthy diet
R, I'm going to respond to you elsewhere also but here I'll just say that I would guess you have had an excellent diet for years and don't have anything to worry about on that front it's one less thing you need to fret about.
Limelife, it's great to hear you've got yourself a top-class diet now, which will tip the odds further in your favour. I don't agree about the carrots but that's a trivial matter. I am interested, though, to know why you count carbs. Have you had a weight problem or is there some other reason?
I am 5foot7 and 4 years ago I weighed 240lbs,I tried for maybe around ten years to lose that weight thru exercise and different diet lifestyles,I for me found that by counting carbs I was able to lose 60 lbs and was able to get to 180 lbs.It is just my own personal belief that myself being overweight and being a semi heavy smoker contributed heavily to my dx of RCC,so because of this thinking it has caused me to be weary of carb intake,by the way I no longer smoke ,the thought of it disgusts me.As far as carrots I am aware of the so called glysemic level in ffoods,I just keep things simple and try to keep my carb intake below 50 carbs a day during the week,a carrot contains about 12 carbs and does not taste very good to me,so I guess it is up to the individual.0 -
OverweightLimelife50 said:Yes I was overweight
I am 5foot7 and 4 years ago I weighed 240lbs,I tried for maybe around ten years to lose that weight thru exercise and different diet lifestyles,I for me found that by counting carbs I was able to lose 60 lbs and was able to get to 180 lbs.It is just my own personal belief that myself being overweight and being a semi heavy smoker contributed heavily to my dx of RCC,so because of this thinking it has caused me to be weary of carb intake,by the way I no longer smoke ,the thought of it disgusts me.As far as carrots I am aware of the so called glysemic level in ffoods,I just keep things simple and try to keep my carb intake below 50 carbs a day during the week,a carrot contains about 12 carbs and does not taste very good to me,so I guess it is up to the individual.
Thanks for the info. I'm one of the lucky people who can keep my weight exactly where I want it all of the time with very little effort. I realise how fortunate that is and how for many folks the most valiant of efforts is required to get to and maintain a healthy weight. I have to say how I admire your success in both giving up smoking and taking off so much excess poundage - that's a monumental double achievement. There's no room for criticism of a method that gave you such results and no hardship on the carrot font if you don't even like them! I wish you the best possible continuing health Limelife.0 -
OverweightLimelife50 said:Yes I was overweight
I am 5foot7 and 4 years ago I weighed 240lbs,I tried for maybe around ten years to lose that weight thru exercise and different diet lifestyles,I for me found that by counting carbs I was able to lose 60 lbs and was able to get to 180 lbs.It is just my own personal belief that myself being overweight and being a semi heavy smoker contributed heavily to my dx of RCC,so because of this thinking it has caused me to be weary of carb intake,by the way I no longer smoke ,the thought of it disgusts me.As far as carrots I am aware of the so called glysemic level in ffoods,I just keep things simple and try to keep my carb intake below 50 carbs a day during the week,a carrot contains about 12 carbs and does not taste very good to me,so I guess it is up to the individual.
Thanks for the info. I'm one of the lucky people who can keep my weight exactly where I want it all of the time with very little effort. I realise how fortunate that is and how for many folks the most valiant of efforts is required to get to and maintain a healthy weight. I have to say how I admire your success in both giving up smoking and taking off so much excess poundage - that's a monumental double achievement. There's no room for criticism of a method that gave you such results and no hardship on the carrot front if you don't even like them!
I wish you the best possible continuing health Limelife.0 -
Ok - I am changing one thing at a time...One Lucky Girl said:Diet and exercise
Hi j_rod,
I can't speak to natural remedies but I can speak to diet and exercise. I am a very athletic person (weekly power yoga, dance, Pilates, daily dog walks, hiking/skiing on weekends) and cook all my food from scratch using fresh ingredients. I am also something of a wine connoisseur (but my doctor says that's okay ;-).
Adopting this lifestyle (>10 years ago) has helped me successfully battle a chronic illness, so that I no longer require medication. Although it did not prevent my kidney cancer, I believe it may have saved my life. I am highly attuned to any changes in my fitness level. Although my tumour was very small (1.9 cm), the fatigue I was feeling just wasn't normal. This led to early detection and I hope my doctors are right when they say it's highly unlikely to return.
Last but not least, my fitness level has really helped in my recovery from surgery. I am already walking every day and am looking forward to gradually easing back into my routine.
I wish you all the best with your upcoming surgery.
...I am changing my diet to include a lot more fruits and veggies.A lot less sugar.Less meat. It has been good so far. I have more energy. Then, I have cut down on my much adored wine. (I see someone here is a wine connoisseur? In my family, we have shortened it up a little - we just say we are wine sewers:) Anyway, the weather here is getting warmer, so walking outside will help me get into shape. However, like you, one lucky girl, my relatively small tumor - 2.5 - must be zapping my energy. I started going to bed at 9 and getting up at 5. Then I started going to bed at 8, then 7, then had a hard time waking up in the morning. I thought it was odd. Then I heard that even this small buger would have that effect. The other thing that was happening was sweating, sweating, and more sweating. I was sure the temperature in my classroom was too hot, so I would open the windows and the kids would politely raise their hand and ask if I would close the windows because they were cold. (It is cold here in northern ILL, and there has been snow.) I would ask them, "You mean you're not sweating to death?" After several weeks of this, I knew I had a problem - and lo and behold - it is a symptom.But I've never lost weight - I have a hard time losing weight even under the best circumstances. But eating more veggies and less meat (and drinking less wine) is helping. PS - Thanks for all of the suggestions. And, I do eat a ton of green/red peppers and broccoli - so at least I am doing something right.0 -
Sweating?j_rod said:Ok - I am changing one thing at a time...
...I am changing my diet to include a lot more fruits and veggies.A lot less sugar.Less meat. It has been good so far. I have more energy. Then, I have cut down on my much adored wine. (I see someone here is a wine connoisseur? In my family, we have shortened it up a little - we just say we are wine sewers:) Anyway, the weather here is getting warmer, so walking outside will help me get into shape. However, like you, one lucky girl, my relatively small tumor - 2.5 - must be zapping my energy. I started going to bed at 9 and getting up at 5. Then I started going to bed at 8, then 7, then had a hard time waking up in the morning. I thought it was odd. Then I heard that even this small buger would have that effect. The other thing that was happening was sweating, sweating, and more sweating. I was sure the temperature in my classroom was too hot, so I would open the windows and the kids would politely raise their hand and ask if I would close the windows because they were cold. (It is cold here in northern ILL, and there has been snow.) I would ask them, "You mean you're not sweating to death?" After several weeks of this, I knew I had a problem - and lo and behold - it is a symptom.But I've never lost weight - I have a hard time losing weight even under the best circumstances. But eating more veggies and less meat (and drinking less wine) is helping. PS - Thanks for all of the suggestions. And, I do eat a ton of green/red peppers and broccoli - so at least I am doing something right.
j_rod,
The sweating is a symptom of kidney cancer? I had that problem for 2 solid months AFTER the surgery. I even posted here about it. It was maddening! I'd go round the clock 24/7 breaking out in an instant sweat and then 2-3 minutes later, cold chills and I'd be freezing. I didn't sleep for anything and it was terrible. Then it went away. Last month I had to have a colonoscopy for the diverticulitis and now I'm having this sweating/cold chills problem again. I am not sleeping at all because it happens all day and at least 3 times per hour at night.
I was put to sleep for the colonoscopy, too so now I'm beginning to think it has something to do with the anesthesia in my body after these procedures. I hope that's all it is and that it goes away soon. My husband is sleeping in another room right now because I am sleeping with the window open at night when it's in the 20's and 30's. He thinks I'm crazy, but I can't stand this sweating!
Blessings,
Lisa0 -
SweatingLISAinTN said:Sweating?
j_rod,
The sweating is a symptom of kidney cancer? I had that problem for 2 solid months AFTER the surgery. I even posted here about it. It was maddening! I'd go round the clock 24/7 breaking out in an instant sweat and then 2-3 minutes later, cold chills and I'd be freezing. I didn't sleep for anything and it was terrible. Then it went away. Last month I had to have a colonoscopy for the diverticulitis and now I'm having this sweating/cold chills problem again. I am not sleeping at all because it happens all day and at least 3 times per hour at night.
I was put to sleep for the colonoscopy, too so now I'm beginning to think it has something to do with the anesthesia in my body after these procedures. I hope that's all it is and that it goes away soon. My husband is sleeping in another room right now because I am sleeping with the window open at night when it's in the 20's and 30's. He thinks I'm crazy, but I can't stand this sweating!
Blessings,
Lisa
I sweated and had to change every hour for 2 weeks after the surgery, my clothes were drenched..then as I dropped the vicodin, the sweating got better. Flip side, the body needs to expel the toxins somehow, if not the kidney is not 100%, then maybe the body finds another way...that's my own theory, usually wrong :-)
But, what meds are you one ? If you don't enough salt, water retention does not happen and you sweat more...but most importantly, identify the meds...ask if you see a relationship.
Thanks.0 -
sweatinglivealive said:Sweating
I sweated and had to change every hour for 2 weeks after the surgery, my clothes were drenched..then as I dropped the vicodin, the sweating got better. Flip side, the body needs to expel the toxins somehow, if not the kidney is not 100%, then maybe the body finds another way...that's my own theory, usually wrong :-)
But, what meds are you one ? If you don't enough salt, water retention does not happen and you sweat more...but most importantly, identify the meds...ask if you see a relationship.
Thanks.
Yes - I was told the non-stop sweating was a symptom of the tumor. But it is different for everyone. The Dr. is surprised I don't have blood in my urine or flank pain (where is the flank anyway?). To answer the question on meds - I take nothing. I have never been in the hospital (I never had children) and have never been ill - I have never even called in sick to work. I have a regular annual check up every year and my vitals and everything has always been great. So this whole thing has been a complete surprise to me. The doctor said that maybe it was a wake up call. It might be - in the last few years I have not been working out like I used to - if at all - have been drinking more - and have been eating out more....met a man a few years ago...and have been changing my regular routine - but seeing that I need to go back to the old me. Thanks everyone for being here.0 -
Don't beat yourself upj_rod said:sweating
Yes - I was told the non-stop sweating was a symptom of the tumor. But it is different for everyone. The Dr. is surprised I don't have blood in my urine or flank pain (where is the flank anyway?). To answer the question on meds - I take nothing. I have never been in the hospital (I never had children) and have never been ill - I have never even called in sick to work. I have a regular annual check up every year and my vitals and everything has always been great. So this whole thing has been a complete surprise to me. The doctor said that maybe it was a wake up call. It might be - in the last few years I have not been working out like I used to - if at all - have been drinking more - and have been eating out more....met a man a few years ago...and have been changing my regular routine - but seeing that I need to go back to the old me. Thanks everyone for being here.
Hi j_rod,
I thought I was doing everything right, but I still got kidney cancer. I was also perfectly healthy. I sure wish I knew if I did something to cause it so I could be certain it wouldn't come back. Even if you haven't been working out and have been eating less healthy food, it doesn't mean you did something to cause this tumour. Don't spend time worrying about what you could have done, just invest in your health to help speed your recovery so you feel fit and strong when this is over with.0 -
Past present and futureOne Lucky Girl said:Don't beat yourself up
Hi j_rod,
I thought I was doing everything right, but I still got kidney cancer. I was also perfectly healthy. I sure wish I knew if I did something to cause it so I could be certain it wouldn't come back. Even if you haven't been working out and have been eating less healthy food, it doesn't mean you did something to cause this tumour. Don't spend time worrying about what you could have done, just invest in your health to help speed your recovery so you feel fit and strong when this is over with.
[That picture really gets to me! I can envisage a communal visit from this thread descending on that beautiful place.]
So many of us here had no symptoms for years and never invited this disease via high risk factors, yet here we are. Having always had robust immune responses and enjoyed virtually perfect health for almost 70 years, I asked myself how this cancer had sneaked under my immune radar system and, accordingly, if it's done it before, what could stop it doing it again.
Two answers are apparent to me. The first is increased vigilance by both the medics and myself (sharpened, but not paranoid, focus on messages from the body). The other interests me much more and involves greater control of my own destiny by myself. The notion is of not merely paying closer attention but of actually improving the capacity of my immune system to detect the malaise. If it can detect it, it will surely defeat it. I already have a whiff of evidence that I may be achieving that end.
With this philosophy, there's no point in crying over spilt milk - let the past be. Focus on now and what can be done to optimise the future. That's only a variation on what One Lucky Girl has just said, but perhaps ventures marginally further [can't get away from 'margins' in this game] in terms of concreteness - find ways to improve your immune detection capacity.0 -
Just a two hour flight from the UKTexas_wedge said:Past present and future
[That picture really gets to me! I can envisage a communal visit from this thread descending on that beautiful place.]
So many of us here had no symptoms for years and never invited this disease via high risk factors, yet here we are. Having always had robust immune responses and enjoyed virtually perfect health for almost 70 years, I asked myself how this cancer had sneaked under my immune radar system and, accordingly, if it's done it before, what could stop it doing it again.
Two answers are apparent to me. The first is increased vigilance by both the medics and myself (sharpened, but not paranoid, focus on messages from the body). The other interests me much more and involves greater control of my own destiny by myself. The notion is of not merely paying closer attention but of actually improving the capacity of my immune system to detect the malaise. If it can detect it, it will surely defeat it. I already have a whiff of evidence that I may be achieving that end.
With this philosophy, there's no point in crying over spilt milk - let the past be. Focus on now and what can be done to optimise the future. That's only a variation on what One Lucky Girl has just said, but perhaps ventures marginally further [can't get away from 'margins' in this game] in terms of concreteness - find ways to improve your immune detection capacity.
Hi Tex,
I'm glad you find the picture inspirational. If you have itchy feet, Ibiza's only a two hour flight from the UK (although Scotland's on my list!!!). And thank you so much for the lovely compliment above.0 -
IP6 Gold
I am thinking about taking IP6 Gold as an immune booster I eat lots of fruits & veggies get plenty of exercise & rest but I thought a little extra can't hurt. It also said it is supposed to improve renal function. I am just wondering if anyone has heard of it & what your opinions are?
Thanks0 -
IP6 GoldOlsera said:IP6 Gold
I am thinking about taking IP6 Gold as an immune booster I eat lots of fruits & veggies get plenty of exercise & rest but I thought a little extra can't hurt. It also said it is supposed to improve renal function. I am just wondering if anyone has heard of it & what your opinions are?
Thanks
Olsera, I can't tell you anything about this and will be interested in any info. others here can proffer.
However, on the general topic of food supplements and diet more generally, ACS has lots of material at e.g.
http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/DietarySupplements/dietary-supplements-misconceptions
and the many other pages accessible from there. Also, there are many sites offering info. on foods with angiogenic inhibiting effects
http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=angiogenesis+inhibitors+foods&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=HKJYT-eMH4rw8QOw1Zn1Dg
is a good starting point.
I'm interested to see that green tea is good both for relieving depression and as an anti-cancer food, being anti-angiogenic.0
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