Tofu

Tethys41 said:

Protein and B12
Jan,
I can ask for more specific informatino regarding the scientific reasoning behind eating meat as a cancer survivor. One thing I'm quite sure weighs in has to do with B12. I just finished a book on autoimmune diseases, and, according to the authors, all autoimmune can be traced to vitamin B12 deficiency, which is a result of improper digestion of proteins and leads to the breakdown of various pathways in our bodies. One pathway that is affected s the body's ability to process vitamin D. Depending on which pathways are affected, determines the type of autoimmune the patient ends up with. The author cites the high occurrance of heart disease and diabetes among the vegetarian populations in India. This breakdown also results in elevated homocystines, which leads to these diseases. I spoke to the author of the book on the phone last week, and she says they are coming out with an updated version, as their rearch has revealed a links between the inability to properly digest protein and some types of cancer.
I do know that my naturopath preaches eating a high protein diet and low carbohydrates. I recently attended a talk given by a doctor from Denver who blames carbs on all of our serious diseases. I might have had difficutly with his position had I not recently read another book that explains the things in our lifestyle that lead to chronic disease. The author of this book tells us that our current environment is very bastardized as compared to the environment of our ancestors. In pre-historic times, carbohydrates were only available to humans in the summer months. Through winter, they ate mostly protein. So our bodies evolved to survive a feast and famine cycle every year. Now that carbs are available to us year round, and our bodies are not adapted to this, we develop serious illnesses, including cancer.
The books: "Autoimmune:The Cause and the Cure" by Annesse Brockley and Kristin Urdiales
"Lights Out" by T.S. Wiley
Both of thes books are filled with references that support the authors' position. The autoimmune book lines out a diet to resolve the inability to digest protein. I tried it and have to say, for me, it worked swimningly.
Kate

China Study & B12
B12 helps formation of red blood cells and maintaining of central nervous system. Vitamin found in --
. Fish
. Poultry
. Meat
. Dairy

RDA of B12 per day is 2.4 mcg (ex; polluck 3.68, Cod 1.05, salmon 3.05, etc.)

Per China Study - pg 230-232 (parts quoted from the book)
Plant foods have dramatically more antioxidants, fiber and minerals than animal foods. In fact, animal foods are almost completely devoid of several of these nutrients. Animal foods,m on other hand, have much more cholesterol and fat. They have slightly more protein than plant foods, along with more B12 and Vit D, although the vit D is largely due to artificial fortification from milk. Since nutrients are primarily responsible for the healthful effects of foods and because of these major differences in nutrient composition between animal and plant based foods, isn't it therefore, reasonable to assume that we should expect to see distinctly different effects on our bodies depending on which variety of foods we consume?

By definition, for a food chemical to be an essential nutrient, it must meet two requirements:

. the chemical is necessary for healthy human functioning
. the chemical must be something our bodies cannot make on their own, and therefore, must be obtained from an outside source.

One example of a chemical that is not essential is cholesterol, a component of animal-based food that is nonexistent in plant based food. While cholesterol is essential for health, our bodies can make all that we require; so we do not need to consume any in food. Therefore, not an essential nutrient.

There are four nutrients which animal based foods have that plant based foods, for the most part, do not ---

cholesterol
Vit A
Vit D
B12

Three are non-essential nutrients. Cholesterol (discussed above) is made by our bodies naturally. Vit A can be readily made by our bodies from beta-carotene and vit D can be readily made by our bodies simply by exposing our skin to about 15 minutes of sunshine each day. Both of these vitamins are toxic.

Vit B12 is more problematic. B12 is made by microorganisms found in the soil and by microorganisms in the intestines of animals, including our own. The amount made in our intestines is not adequately absorbed, so it is recomme3nded that we consume B12 in food. Research has convincingly shown that plants grown in healthy soil that has a good concentration of Vit B12 will readily absorb this nutrient. However, plants grown in "lifeless" soil (non-0rganic) may be deficient in Vib B12. In the US, most of our agriculture takes place on relatively lifeless soil, decimated from years of unnatural pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer use. Plants grown in this soil and sold in our grocery stores lack B12. In addition, we live in such a sanitized world that we rarely come into direct contact with the soil-borne microorganisms that product B12. At one point in our history, we got B12 from vegetables that hadn't been scoured of all soil. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that modern Americans who eat highly cleansed plant products and no animal products are unlikely to get enough vit B12.

If you do not eat any animal products for three years or more, or are pregnant or breastfeeding, you should consider taking a small B12 supplement on occasion, or going to the doc annually to check your blood levels of b12 and homocysteine. Likewise, if you never get sunshine exposure, especially during the winter months, you might want to take a Vit D supplement.

I call these supplements "separation from nature pills" because a health y diet of fresh, organic plant-based foods grown in rich soil and a lifestyle that regularly takes you outdoors is the best answer to these issues. Returning to our natural way of life, in the small way provides innumerable other benefits as well.

--------------------------------

Tethys, What I'm reading, if I stick with my normal fish (mainly Wild fish such as Salmon) a few times per week, you're telling me this will increase my B12...per the RDA? I'm not a VEGAN as still eat fish and eggs on occasion.

Trying to wrap my arms around all this insight...very interesting if nothing else!!

Hugs,
Jan

jazzy1 said:

China Study & B12
B12 helps formation of red blood cells and maintaining of central nervous system. Vitamin found in --
. Fish
. Poultry
. Meat
. Dairy

RDA of B12 per day is 2.4 mcg (ex; polluck 3.68, Cod 1.05, salmon 3.05, etc.)

Per China Study - pg 230-232 (parts quoted from the book)
Plant foods have dramatically more antioxidants, fiber and minerals than animal foods. In fact, animal foods are almost completely devoid of several of these nutrients. Animal foods,m on other hand, have much more cholesterol and fat. They have slightly more protein than plant foods, along with more B12 and Vit D, although the vit D is largely due to artificial fortification from milk. Since nutrients are primarily responsible for the healthful effects of foods and because of these major differences in nutrient composition between animal and plant based foods, isn't it therefore, reasonable to assume that we should expect to see distinctly different effects on our bodies depending on which variety of foods we consume?

By definition, for a food chemical to be an essential nutrient, it must meet two requirements:

. the chemical is necessary for healthy human functioning
. the chemical must be something our bodies cannot make on their own, and therefore, must be obtained from an outside source.

One example of a chemical that is not essential is cholesterol, a component of animal-based food that is nonexistent in plant based food. While cholesterol is essential for health, our bodies can make all that we require; so we do not need to consume any in food. Therefore, not an essential nutrient.

There are four nutrients which animal based foods have that plant based foods, for the most part, do not ---

cholesterol
Vit A
Vit D
B12

Three are non-essential nutrients. Cholesterol (discussed above) is made by our bodies naturally. Vit A can be readily made by our bodies from beta-carotene and vit D can be readily made by our bodies simply by exposing our skin to about 15 minutes of sunshine each day. Both of these vitamins are toxic.

Vit B12 is more problematic. B12 is made by microorganisms found in the soil and by microorganisms in the intestines of animals, including our own. The amount made in our intestines is not adequately absorbed, so it is recomme3nded that we consume B12 in food. Research has convincingly shown that plants grown in healthy soil that has a good concentration of Vit B12 will readily absorb this nutrient. However, plants grown in "lifeless" soil (non-0rganic) may be deficient in Vib B12. In the US, most of our agriculture takes place on relatively lifeless soil, decimated from years of unnatural pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer use. Plants grown in this soil and sold in our grocery stores lack B12. In addition, we live in such a sanitized world that we rarely come into direct contact with the soil-borne microorganisms that product B12. At one point in our history, we got B12 from vegetables that hadn't been scoured of all soil. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that modern Americans who eat highly cleansed plant products and no animal products are unlikely to get enough vit B12.

If you do not eat any animal products for three years or more, or are pregnant or breastfeeding, you should consider taking a small B12 supplement on occasion, or going to the doc annually to check your blood levels of b12 and homocysteine. Likewise, if you never get sunshine exposure, especially during the winter months, you might want to take a Vit D supplement.

I call these supplements "separation from nature pills" because a health y diet of fresh, organic plant-based foods grown in rich soil and a lifestyle that regularly takes you outdoors is the best answer to these issues. Returning to our natural way of life, in the small way provides innumerable other benefits as well.

--------------------------------

Tethys, What I'm reading, if I stick with my normal fish (mainly Wild fish such as Salmon) a few times per week, you're telling me this will increase my B12...per the RDA? I'm not a VEGAN as still eat fish and eggs on occasion.

Trying to wrap my arms around all this insight...very interesting if nothing else!!

Hugs,
Jan

Fish and Eggs
Jan,
Yes, the fish and eggs should give you adequate vitamin B12 to help keep you healthy. It might be interesting to see if you don't eat any animal protein for a few days, do you feel a bit better after you eat it? This is an indication that you need it. My naturopath says that the vegetarian patients who she convinces to include eggs in their diets a few days a week, feel good after eating the eggs and not as good after a few days. Vitamin B12, I have learned, is so essential to a whole slew of processes in our bodies. The book I mentioned before, "Autoimmune: The Cause and The Cure" presents research that indicates the inability to digest proteins properly leads to vitamin B12 deficiency, which leads to vitamin D deficiency, elevated homocystines, and a whole breakdown of various systems in our bodies, all linked to vitamin B12 deficiency. The author believes the reason women are more prone to autoimmune than men is because of the B12 deficiency that occurs during preganacy. She also believes that vegetarianism, due to the lack of B12, also predisposes people to autoimmune.
I'm actually working with my naturopath and the author of the book to get to the bottom of supplemental vitamin D. The author believes it is detrimental, my naturopath believes it is essential. So, the jury is out, but the questions and research continues. Right now, I'm still taking mine. The downfall to getting all of our vitamin D from sunlight is that if we bathe within 72 hours of receiving the sunlight, we interrupt the process that incorporated the vitamin D into our system. That is why my naturopath says that our daily wash should be just "pits and parts" and every few days we should have a full blown bath.

Tethys41 said:

Fish and Eggs
Jan,
Yes, the fish and eggs should give you adequate vitamin B12 to help keep you healthy. It might be interesting to see if you don't eat any animal protein for a few days, do you feel a bit better after you eat it? This is an indication that you need it. My naturopath says that the vegetarian patients who she convinces to include eggs in their diets a few days a week, feel good after eating the eggs and not as good after a few days. Vitamin B12, I have learned, is so essential to a whole slew of processes in our bodies. The book I mentioned before, "Autoimmune: The Cause and The Cure" presents research that indicates the inability to digest proteins properly leads to vitamin B12 deficiency, which leads to vitamin D deficiency, elevated homocystines, and a whole breakdown of various systems in our bodies, all linked to vitamin B12 deficiency. The author believes the reason women are more prone to autoimmune than men is because of the B12 deficiency that occurs during preganacy. She also believes that vegetarianism, due to the lack of B12, also predisposes people to autoimmune.
I'm actually working with my naturopath and the author of the book to get to the bottom of supplemental vitamin D. The author believes it is detrimental, my naturopath believes it is essential. So, the jury is out, but the questions and research continues. Right now, I'm still taking mine. The downfall to getting all of our vitamin D from sunlight is that if we bathe within 72 hours of receiving the sunlight, we interrupt the process that incorporated the vitamin D into our system. That is why my naturopath says that our daily wash should be just "pits and parts" and every few days we should have a full blown bath.

Tethys
One thing about eggs, have B12 and vit D...see below listing with 2 eggs as serving size....

Potassium - 168 mg
Phosphorus - 207 mg
Calcium - 87 mg
Magnesium - 15 mg
Iron - 1.46 mg
Sodium - 342 mg
Manganese - 0.027 mg
Zinc - 1.22 mg
Copper - 0.017 mg
Selenium - 27.4 mcg
Vitamin C - 0.2 mg
Vitamin B1 (thiamine) - 0.063 mg
Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) - 0.533 mg
Niacin - 0.096 mg
Pantothenic Acid - 1.229 mg
Vitamin B6 - 0.144 mg
Folate - 37 mcg
Vitamin B12 - 0.94 mcg*****
Vitamin A - 642 IU
Vitamin E - 1.33 mg
Vitamin K - 4.9 mcg
Vitamin D - 59 IU*****
Contains some other vitamins in small amounts.

You posted "vegetarian patients who she convinces to include eggs in their diets a few days a week, feel good after eating the eggs and NOT AS GOOD AFTER A FEW DAYS...?? Is this what you wished to convey...feel worse later?

You've convinced me to purchase the Autoimmune book as I do have osteoarthritis and know this will be of great help for my aches and pains...more side affects from my chemo and external radiation.

I'm a huge advocate for Vitamin D...check out the link www.grassroots.com...wonderful information. We simply cannot get enough of this vitamin during winter months, and if you look at ratings for less sunshine in the northern US population....more disease. Let me know what you find during your journey with this new research. Never read or heard about bathing within 72 hrs. after being in sunlight...where was this published?

You ask how I feel with only vegies for a few days, then add fish or eggs? Yes I do feel a bit sluggish, in fact, my body does crave some type of protein to keep my energy level up, even with my organic whey twice per day.

One interesting side note, my mother in law who's 87 yrs eats whatever falls before her...meat, fish, bologna, butter, eggs, mush, etc, etc, Her doc does blood work on her every month and her B12 has been very low for a long time. Doc put her on a monthly B12 shot which seems to be helping and without it, she's sluggish, showing low iron. Interesting as she eats so much fish, poultry, meat and dairy. Note, she does take quite a few meds for everything from high blood pressure to cholesterol....thinking these meds with all the side affects challenge her proper daily vitamin levels.

Hugs,
Jan

Tethys41 said:

Fish and Eggs
Jan,
Yes, the fish and eggs should give you adequate vitamin B12 to help keep you healthy. It might be interesting to see if you don't eat any animal protein for a few days, do you feel a bit better after you eat it? This is an indication that you need it. My naturopath says that the vegetarian patients who she convinces to include eggs in their diets a few days a week, feel good after eating the eggs and not as good after a few days. Vitamin B12, I have learned, is so essential to a whole slew of processes in our bodies. The book I mentioned before, "Autoimmune: The Cause and The Cure" presents research that indicates the inability to digest proteins properly leads to vitamin B12 deficiency, which leads to vitamin D deficiency, elevated homocystines, and a whole breakdown of various systems in our bodies, all linked to vitamin B12 deficiency. The author believes the reason women are more prone to autoimmune than men is because of the B12 deficiency that occurs during preganacy. She also believes that vegetarianism, due to the lack of B12, also predisposes people to autoimmune.
I'm actually working with my naturopath and the author of the book to get to the bottom of supplemental vitamin D. The author believes it is detrimental, my naturopath believes it is essential. So, the jury is out, but the questions and research continues. Right now, I'm still taking mine. The downfall to getting all of our vitamin D from sunlight is that if we bathe within 72 hours of receiving the sunlight, we interrupt the process that incorporated the vitamin D into our system. That is why my naturopath says that our daily wash should be just "pits and parts" and every few days we should have a full blown bath.

Fascinating, but ...

Thanks again for riveting information, Tethys.

I agree with your naturopath that we bathe far too often in this nation ("cleanliness is next to Godliness" is an old mantra that Europeans laugh at) and although I showered most of my adult life every day or every OTHER day--and shampooed nearly that often--it's curoius how, instinctively, after starting chemo I did instead what your naturopath recommends. I had also read, of course, how toxic our flouridated showers are--and the steam from them that we inhale--and didn't want to subject my body to it nearly as often.

The ONLY question I have re autoimmune disease among vegan cultures is this one: If India has a high rate of diabetes, it has--according to Dr. D Servan Screiber--a far lower incidence of cancer and Alzheimer's, which he attributes, correctly or not, to the vast intake of turmeric/curcumin.

Would be curious to hear this author's response to his claims.

Best,
Rosey

RoseyR said:

Fascinating, but ...

Thanks again for riveting information, Tethys.

I agree with your naturopath that we bathe far too often in this nation ("cleanliness is next to Godliness" is an old mantra that Europeans laugh at) and although I showered most of my adult life every day or every OTHER day--and shampooed nearly that often--it's curoius how, instinctively, after starting chemo I did instead what your naturopath recommends. I had also read, of course, how toxic our flouridated showers are--and the steam from them that we inhale--and didn't want to subject my body to it nearly as often.

The ONLY question I have re autoimmune disease among vegan cultures is this one: If India has a high rate of diabetes, it has--according to Dr. D Servan Screiber--a far lower incidence of cancer and Alzheimer's, which he attributes, correctly or not, to the vast intake of turmeric/curcumin.

Would be curious to hear this author's response to his claims.

Best,
Rosey

And what about B-12 in CHILDLESS women?

Another question I have about this fascinating theory (that even cancer may be an autoimmune disease) is this: If its origin is vested in Vitamin B-12 deficiency that in turn is prompted by pregancy (hence more autoimmune disease in women than men), what do we do with the fact that uterine cancer--and even breast, for that matter--occur in highest rates among women who have NOT borne children? "Nulliparity" again and again shows up as a status strongly associated with rates of gynecological cancers.

In raising this question, I'm hardly dismissing the possible link between B-12 deficiency and autoimmune disease. Just the association with pregnancy.

And by the way: My OWN B-12 status as a childless woman was about 320 when at my own insistence, I had a neurologist test it before starting chemo. (Had read that neuropathy is more likely when you start chemo with low B-12 levels.) Normal in an adult is 200-800 but even my integrative doctor said, "You do NOT want to start chemo at less than 600." (Did my renowned Cancer Treatment Center ever test my B-12 levels before rushing to administer chemo? Of course not!)

Finally: I can't help wonder if low B-12 status (which runs in my family) also explains the MS-like symptoms I eperienced in my early thirties (total loss of sight in one eye--regained, thankfully, in about six weeks) and an episode involving spasms in my upper leg ten years ago. (The MRI was, according to one neurologist, "borderline" i suggesting it could be MS--a notoriously hard disease to diagnose. I resolved these symptoms, which I endured for a few months, believe it or not, with eight capsules of ginger a day; it took just a few days. And thankfully, I've been incredibly "healthy" most of my life, seldom eve catching many colds or flus.

But I suspect you're on to something here, Tethys.

I will look into this book.

Best,
Rosey

jazzy1 said:

Soy
I've got a similar cancer which is just as aggressive.....MMMT. My nutritionist, plus integrative doc suggested only 2 servings of whole soy in food per day. Note, avoid any soy listed with "isolates"...not good at all. The nutritionist who's a breast cancer survivor, recommended watching the soy I add to my diet, as the jury is still out on how soy affects one, especially with hormone type cancers.

One question to you experts on food preparation, what type of "sauce" do you use with any of your vegie saute dishes?

Jill, proud to read about your upcoming 4-year mark....whatever you're doing, keep it up. Love reading your posts.

Hugs,
Jan

Almond butter
I make a sauce with fresh almond butter, coconut aminos (instead of soy sauce), water, garlic, turmeric, salt and pepper.

I pour it on sauteed tofu with onions, string beans, and bell peppers.
Even my husband likes it.

However, I try to stay away from tofu as much as I can.
I eat it probably 1 to 2 times per month.

Felicitaciones to both of you for reaching almost 4 years!