Turmeric (the spice in curry), curcumin, bioavailability, tinctures (with sublingual [under tongue]

davidp46
davidp46 Member Posts: 11
in Prostate Cancer #1
Hello,
I have prostate cancer, surgery is not an option, right now radiation is not an option. I'm on Lupron which is "controlling" the cancer by shutting off the testorone production in my body.

In looking for "cancer fighting foods", I came across information about curcumin, the active element in turmeric, the spice that colors curries and most Thai food. It is reported to be a powerful fighter against all cancers. I tried consuming lots of turmeric until I check online and found that the liver dumps this stuff and does not let it into the blood stream where it needs to be to kill cancer cells. I check some more and found that it could be ingested sublinqually (under tongue -- like an aspirin when having a heart attack) and some would get into the blood stream.

Next, I found some stuff about "tinctures" which have been around for several thousand years. The idea is that the target ingredient is covered with liquid that
would "absorb" the essential ingredients. The liquid is alchohol (e.g. 100 proof vodka [cheap as possible]). I've been making "SPICE" tincture for about 4 months now. (SPICE was the worm excrement in the Sci-Fi book/movie DUNE).

I have been taken the tincture daily in juices, tea, food, and plain water (SPICE tea). I may be a quack but I believe it is doing some good. (Excuse my negativity) I have not had the best experience with docs who really give a hoot about alternative medicine). If anyone has any interest, let me know.

I up my production tonight because I'm not wary of it anymore and I figure that it may the only way I have to kill the cancer in my body.

God Bless Us All (Tiny Tim)
David Powers

Comments

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,346 Member
    #2
    Diet
    Generally heart healthy is prostate healthy. Since we are more likely to die from heart disease than from prostate disease it is recommended that we eat heart healthy, and exercise. It is hoped that eating this way will help prostate cancer, but it is not known for certain. So eating a heart healthy diet is proven to be heart healthly, and the jury is out on whether or not it will slow or stop the spread of prostate cancer but it can't hurt.

    There have been inclusive discussion about diet at this site.

    Here are some foods that are considered prostate friendly; tumeric, green tea, tomatoes, tomato pastes. pomogranate juices, cayanne peppers, rosmary, garlic and foods with antioxidents.

    Not oonsidered positive are red meats and even dairy products. There is a lower incidence in countries that follow these diets.

    As far as vitamins, d3 is good, do not use mens multivitamins, but instead womens, or child. Do not take vitamin e or selenium.

    I did not give any research finding for any of the above, but you can research each one.

    I was not able to find any studies that were done for turmeric tinctures for prostate cancer. Can you provide research based studies.

    I am curious about the specifis of your prostate cancer. What is your diagnosis information, gleason, psa, rate of change, any diagnostic tests given, age, general health,etc.

    Why are you not able to have surgery or radiation? Other than hormone therapy, have you investigated other treatment options?
  • rch
    rch Member Posts: 79
    #3
    hopeful and optimistic said:

    Diet
    Generally heart healthy is prostate healthy. Since we are more likely to die from heart disease than from prostate disease it is recommended that we eat heart healthy, and exercise. It is hoped that eating this way will help prostate cancer, but it is not known for certain. So eating a heart healthy diet is proven to be heart healthly, and the jury is out on whether or not it will slow or stop the spread of prostate cancer but it can't hurt.

    There have been inclusive discussion about diet at this site.

    Here are some foods that are considered prostate friendly; tumeric, green tea, tomatoes, tomato pastes. pomogranate juices, cayanne peppers, rosmary, garlic and foods with antioxidents.

    Not oonsidered positive are red meats and even dairy products. There is a lower incidence in countries that follow these diets.

    As far as vitamins, d3 is good, do not use mens multivitamins, but instead womens, or child. Do not take vitamin e or selenium.

    I did not give any research finding for any of the above, but you can research each one.

    I was not able to find any studies that were done for turmeric tinctures for prostate cancer. Can you provide research based studies.

    I am curious about the specifis of your prostate cancer. What is your diagnosis information, gleason, psa, rate of change, any diagnostic tests given, age, general health,etc.

    Why are you not able to have surgery or radiation? Other than hormone therapy, have you investigated other treatment options?

    Vitamin E and Prostate Cancer
    I agree with you on Vit E
    Access the link http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/pressreleases/2011/SELECTupdateJAMAOct2011
  • JGS2009
    JGS2009 Member Posts: 2
    #4
    Hello Davidp46
    How are
    Hello Davidp46

    How are things?

    Turmeric is a potent herb and can be used with better effect when used with black pepper tincture (piperine in BP can increase absorption of curcumin by 2000%). apart from the systemic inflammatory lowering effects, Turmeric can be used to help the body excrete excess oestrogens and xeno oestrogens which have a negative impact on Prostate cancer.

    There are lots of things you can do.

    I would like to know how you are getting on. I don't use this forum i just came across your post and signed up to reply. if you would like to contact me please email
    whu-2005@hotmail.co.uk and let me know how you are getting on.

    I hope you are doing well.

    Keep strong

    John
  • JGS2009
    JGS2009 Member Posts: 2
    #5
    Hello Davidp46 How are
    Hello Davidp46

    How are things?

    Turmeric is a potent herb and can be used with better effect when used with black pepper tincture (pipperine in BP can increase absorbsion of curcumin by 2000%). aparrt from the systemic inflammatory lowering effects, Turmeric can be used to help the body excrete excess oestrogens and xeno oestrogens which have a negative impact on Prostate cancer.

    There are lots of things you can do.

    I would like to know how you are getting on. I don't use this forum i just came across your post and signed up to reply. if you would like to contact me please email
    whu-2005@hotmail.co.uk and let me know how you are getting on.

    I hope you are doing well.

    Keep strong

    John
  • barry2468
    barry2468 Member Posts: 9
    #6
    Hello David, Sorry to deflate your experiences with additional herbs and spices to combat your cancer but I have been taking many of those regularly for the past 10 years when my PSA reached 4.5 (in those days over 2 it was considered time to remove the prostate). I never agreed with the doctors on that point and instead got into natural remedies to contain it. In hindsight they may have helped who knows otherwise I would not have bothered to take them as it did take 10 years for the PSA to rise to 116 before I took on ADT. My PSA hovered from between 4.5 to 9.60 for 9 of those 10 years until 2010 when it suddenly took off. From 9.6 to 116 in less than 9 months. Now we may say that all the minerals and vitamins I took was keeping the PSA down between 4 & 9 all those years but that is up for grabs. I have never had a biopsy and believe that is half the problem of getting cancer in the first place. Getting back to the subject of additional supplements here is most of the ones I tried: Cinnamon, Selenium, Epilobium, seeds of the apricot(contains Arsenic and cannot have too many at one time), Livertone ( for the liver in case they affect it), Flaxseed oil & cottage cheese, Saw Palmetto, Grape seed, and I have forgotten some of the ones I took early on. You will never defeat it, at least not in my generation anyway. Progress is being made in this direction but it's a slow game. All the best David and God Bless. Barry
  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,346 Member
    #7
    barry2468 said:

    Hello David, Sorry to deflate your experiences with additional herbs and spices to combat your cancer but I have been taking many of those regularly for the past 10 years when my PSA reached 4.5 (in those days over 2 it was considered time to remove the prostate). I never agreed with the doctors on that point and instead got into natural remedies to contain it. In hindsight they may have helped who knows otherwise I would not have bothered to take them as it did take 10 years for the PSA to rise to 116 before I took on ADT. My PSA hovered from between 4.5 to 9.60 for 9 of those 10 years until 2010 when it suddenly took off. From 9.6 to 116 in less than 9 months. Now we may say that all the minerals and vitamins I took was keeping the PSA down between 4 & 9 all those years but that is up for grabs. I have never had a biopsy and believe that is half the problem of getting cancer in the first place. Getting back to the subject of additional supplements here is most of the ones I tried: Cinnamon, Selenium, Epilobium, seeds of the apricot(contains Arsenic and cannot have too many at one time), Livertone ( for the liver in case they affect it), Flaxseed oil & cottage cheese, Saw Palmetto, Grape seed, and I have forgotten some of the ones I took early on. You will never defeat it, at least not in my generation anyway. Progress is being made in this direction but it's a slow game. All the best David and God Bless. Barry

    "The Select Study"
    was a major study involving about 30,000 men to measure the effects of increased doses of selenium and vitamin e on prostate cancer expecting positive results, however the reverse was found to be true so the study was stopped midway.
  • davidp46
    davidp46 Member Posts: 11
    #8
    barry2468 said:

    Hello David, Sorry to deflate your experiences with additional herbs and spices to combat your cancer but I have been taking many of those regularly for the past 10 years when my PSA reached 4.5 (in those days over 2 it was considered time to remove the prostate). I never agreed with the doctors on that point and instead got into natural remedies to contain it. In hindsight they may have helped who knows otherwise I would not have bothered to take them as it did take 10 years for the PSA to rise to 116 before I took on ADT. My PSA hovered from between 4.5 to 9.60 for 9 of those 10 years until 2010 when it suddenly took off. From 9.6 to 116 in less than 9 months. Now we may say that all the minerals and vitamins I took was keeping the PSA down between 4 & 9 all those years but that is up for grabs. I have never had a biopsy and believe that is half the problem of getting cancer in the first place. Getting back to the subject of additional supplements here is most of the ones I tried: Cinnamon, Selenium, Epilobium, seeds of the apricot(contains Arsenic and cannot have too many at one time), Livertone ( for the liver in case they affect it), Flaxseed oil & cottage cheese, Saw Palmetto, Grape seed, and I have forgotten some of the ones I took early on. You will never defeat it, at least not in my generation anyway. Progress is being made in this direction but it's a slow game. All the best David and God Bless. Barry

    anti-cancer supplements
    Thanks for your replies.

    I just finished IMRT (42 courses/fractions over 10 weeks; 78Gy/185.7cGy/day).

    I became real interested in RadioProtectors and RadioSensitizers. Some things can make cells more vulnerable to radiation and some things can help healthy cells recover from the (inadvertent) radiation. Turns out the Curcumin, Gingo Biloba, and Panax Ginseng were in the Protector class, as were Vit E and Vit C. I also continued (with great apprehension) taking my regular/daily antioxidant stuff (fish oil, garlic, CQ10, calcium, D, etc). Overall, I *believe* that I did reduce the short-term (and hopefully long-term) side effect of the RT by taking these things *IN MODERATION*.

    I am completing my 1st year of Lupron (ADT) treatment, and my local uro agreed to help me watch the Lupron per the recommendations of Dr. Myers (Charles, "Snuffy"). I have been getting tests for PSA, T, DHT (dihydrotestosterone) about every 60 to 90 days. The Lupron knocked the PSA down from 60.5 to 2.9 in 2 months time, then it was down to 1.6 after 4 months (T and DHT was less than 20).

    Something happened when I started using the curcumin tinctures without sufficient restraints -- psa went to 3.3, T was ~130, and DHT was ~ 55 === this was a *BIG FLARE*. I reduced curcumin to <180mg/day and noticed that the trademark hotflashes that had been eliminated by the excess curcumin were now back in business [so the Lupron was back on duty]. My translation is that too much curcumin (bio-available through the water soluble tincture) "down regulated" the Lupron [which was NOT good] and that using a more modest dose "up regulated" the Lupron back to what it was suppose to do.

    In any case, since RP is not even a "salvage" option for me, and the RT is done and hopefully successful; my main option as a survivor is to use dietary discretion to finesse this "truce" with the PCa beast.

    I strongly believe that curcumin tincture is very powerful; however, with moderate use it is potent weapon for us survivors passed the first-line treatments.

    Take care.
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,701 Member
    #9
    davidp46 said:

    anti-cancer supplements
    Thanks for your replies.

    I just finished IMRT (42 courses/fractions over 10 weeks; 78Gy/185.7cGy/day).

    I became real interested in RadioProtectors and RadioSensitizers. Some things can make cells more vulnerable to radiation and some things can help healthy cells recover from the (inadvertent) radiation. Turns out the Curcumin, Gingo Biloba, and Panax Ginseng were in the Protector class, as were Vit E and Vit C. I also continued (with great apprehension) taking my regular/daily antioxidant stuff (fish oil, garlic, CQ10, calcium, D, etc). Overall, I *believe* that I did reduce the short-term (and hopefully long-term) side effect of the RT by taking these things *IN MODERATION*.

    I am completing my 1st year of Lupron (ADT) treatment, and my local uro agreed to help me watch the Lupron per the recommendations of Dr. Myers (Charles, "Snuffy"). I have been getting tests for PSA, T, DHT (dihydrotestosterone) about every 60 to 90 days. The Lupron knocked the PSA down from 60.5 to 2.9 in 2 months time, then it was down to 1.6 after 4 months (T and DHT was less than 20).

    Something happened when I started using the curcumin tinctures without sufficient restraints -- psa went to 3.3, T was ~130, and DHT was ~ 55 === this was a *BIG FLARE*. I reduced curcumin to <180mg/day and noticed that the trademark hotflashes that had been eliminated by the excess curcumin were now back in business [so the Lupron was back on duty]. My translation is that too much curcumin (bio-available through the water soluble tincture) "down regulated" the Lupron [which was NOT good] and that using a more modest dose "up regulated" the Lupron back to what it was suppose to do.

    In any case, since RP is not even a "salvage" option for me, and the RT is done and hopefully successful; my main option as a survivor is to use dietary discretion to finesse this "truce" with the PCa beast.

    I strongly believe that curcumin tincture is very powerful; however, with moderate use it is potent weapon for us survivors passed the first-line treatments.

    Take care.</p>

    Could Curcumin be masking the PSA ?
    DPowers

    I read with interest your comment regarding the effect of Curcumin on the “action” of Lupron.
    In fact your findings and descriptions are important to all of us following your thread.

    I am reading your post as you comment that the uncontrolled intake of Curcumin has caused a rise in the PSA, T and DHT. I take it as an increased from (PSA=1.6 and T&DHT of less-than 20) to PSA=3.3, T=130 and DHT=55.

    Hot flashes cannot justify your findings. Can you share more info on the facts?
    How far have the markers been reduced since changing to 180mg/day?

    Theoretically analysing the facts;
    The action of Lupron is to “stop” the testis from producing Testosterone. DHT is produced from T and other androgens. Cancer feeds on T and DHT
    A lower level of T in the body will directly influence a lower DHT and a lower quantity of “food” for cancer. Therefore, lesser activity of cancer equals to lower PSA.

    If the markers (T and DHT) have not changed sufficiently, it means that Curcumin is “killing” the cancer similarly to the effects of ADT or (caution) masking the PSA.

    The only way to verify the above is by giving-up with the Curcumin for a period of six months and compare the markers again clean from the influence of the supplement.

    I wish you complete recovery and that RT hit the bandit fully.

    Reagrds.
    VGama

Discussion Boards