Why do chemo or radition if they believe they got it all?

katyjoyce
katyjoyce Member Posts: 3
in Breast Cancer #1
New to this forum, or any forum. Just had both of my girls removed on Dec. 30th. Because of my family history (4 women, including my mom passed from breast cancer) I insisted on them taking both breast which turn out to be a good thing as they found not one but two tumors in the left breast, and then found abnormal cells in the right so it was only a matter of time before it had cancer in it also. I was very blessed that it was not yet in my nodes nor had it metastasized.

I will be seeing the oncologist on Jan. 30th. The surgeon believes that they will recommend chemo and possibly hormone therapy, but he also truly believes he got it all so why would I accept the misery of chemo? Yes of course I know that no one "wants" chemo and/or radiation, but I mean that I really don't think I will. In my heart of hearts I truly believe I entered the new year cancer free.

Has anyone one else felt this way and what did you decide?

Katy
«1

Comments

  • Frankie Shannon
    Frankie Shannon Member Posts: 457
    #2
    Hi Katy i had Bil.mastectomy
    Hi Katy i had Bil.mastectomy with out chem or rad.was just put on hormone therapy which is Tamoxifen for 5 years also had 2 lymph nodes from each side taken no cancer.It will be up to you and your oncologist on you what treatment is best for you.Strength,Courage and Hope your attitude is one of your best coping skills.Keep us posted.Hugs Frankie
  • roseann4
    roseann4 Member Posts: 992 Member
    #3
    Frankie Shannon said:

    Hi Katy i had Bil.mastectomy
    Hi Katy i had Bil.mastectomy with out chem or rad.was just put on hormone therapy which is Tamoxifen for 5 years also had 2 lymph nodes from each side taken no cancer.It will be up to you and your oncologist on you what treatment is best for you.Strength,Courage and Hope your attitude is one of your best coping skills.Keep us posted.Hugs Frankie

    Ask about the OncoTypeDX test.
    There is a test that can be done on the cells of your bc to see if chemo will help. It is for node negative bc that is early stage. It is done in only one lab in the world and is usually covered by insurance. I did not have chemo but radiation was recommended. They wanted to be sure that there were no stray cells left in the breast. So many unpleasant decisions!

    Roseann
  • SIROD
    SIROD Member Posts: 2,194 Member
    #4
    Give Yourself The Best Odds!
    There is no guarantee that malignant cells haven't escape via the blood or lymph nodes. You want to give yourself the best odds in beating cancer when it is at Stages 0-3, it's curable.

    Don't do everything then it might come back as stage IV. This stage is treatable and some live many years but in the end the disease with kill you. With all the pink rah, rah, rah, breast cancer remains a deadly disease. Never doubt that and do some research on this topic. Read books, go to good web sites, read forums, discussion boards on breast cancer.

    My opinion is to give yourself the best odds,

    Best wishes on this journey,

    Doris
  • TraciInLA
    TraciInLA Member Posts: 1,994 Member
    #5
    SIROD said:

    Give Yourself The Best Odds!
    There is no guarantee that malignant cells haven't escape via the blood or lymph nodes. You want to give yourself the best odds in beating cancer when it is at Stages 0-3, it's curable.

    Don't do everything then it might come back as stage IV. This stage is treatable and some live many years but in the end the disease with kill you. With all the pink rah, rah, rah, breast cancer remains a deadly disease. Never doubt that and do some research on this topic. Read books, go to good web sites, read forums, discussion boards on breast cancer.

    My opinion is to give yourself the best odds,

    Best wishes on this journey,

    Doris

    Because there's no way to know for sure
    Katy,

    Cancer cells can be too tiny for a scan or surgeon to detect, and unfortunately they don't always "behave" and stay inside a tumor -- sometimes they decide to go on a little trip to see what other parts of your body look good to them.

    The purpose of chemo is to destroy any microscopic cancer cells that may be cruising around in your bloodstream. The purpose of radiation is to destroy any cancer cells that may be left behind at the site of surgery (often not recommended with mastectomy, but always recommended with lumpectomy). The purpose of hormone therapy is to cut off the "food supply" (i.e., estrogen) to any estrogen-positive cancer cells that might be left behind.

    I hope that helps explain why one or more of these may be recommended for you after your surgery. Roseann's suggestion to ask about the Oncotype DX test is a good one -- many oncologists feel it's a helpful decision-making tool.

    Traci
  • AMomNETN
    AMomNETN Member Posts: 242
    #6
    Chemo
    Katy,
    My situation is very similar to yours except no family history. I always had to be first. My onc. told me that chemo was my choice but that even tho there was no lymph node involvement there was no guarentee that there wasn't any of those nasty little buggers hiding in my blood. Chemo should make sure there aren't any lurking. Before you decide ask what your CTC score is. CTC is circulationg tumor. It measures the number of cancer cells in your blood. You want 0. There are other tests. It is a decision only you can make. I was lucky and didn't need radition. I'm also on hormone therapy. Tamoxfen for 5 years, about 18 months down. I hope this helps. Good Luck no matter what option you decide.

    Janie
  • Rague
    Rague Member Posts: 3,653 Member
    #7
    Never felt that way
    There io way of knowing where all cells are and breast cancer is one that likes to metastisize. Some types more than others - that's part of why different types have different survival rates.

    Chemo works throughout the entire body to attack any cancer cells 'floating' around anywhere. Radiation is limited to the area where it was. There are times that Chemo has to be done before surgery so that the surgeon has a chance of 'getting' it and there can be more Chemo after surgery before Rads.

    Hormone Therapy is to deny cancer cells what they feed off of if yours are ER/PR/HER2 positive.

    Didn't you already discuss your potential TX with Chemo and Rads?

    Remember at this time - there is no Cure for cancer. Now, the best we can get is NED (No Evidence of Disease) once cancer has been DX'd. I can only speak for myself but no way could I have faced my Hubby, Son, and G-daughter IF I hadn't done everything possible to fight and stay 'here' with them and a reoccurance/mets happened.. There is no 'guarantee' that you will not get reoccurance if you do all that is possible to do. Just as there is no 'guarantee' that you will get a reoccurance if you do nothing. You are the only one who can make your decisions based on what you think is 'right' for you.

    Susan
  • MAJW
    MAJW Member Posts: 2,510 Member
    #8
    AMomNETN said:

    Chemo
    Katy,
    My situation is very similar to yours except no family history. I always had to be first. My onc. told me that chemo was my choice but that even tho there was no lymph node involvement there was no guarentee that there wasn't any of those nasty little buggers hiding in my blood. Chemo should make sure there aren't any lurking. Before you decide ask what your CTC score is. CTC is circulationg tumor. It measures the number of cancer cells in your blood. You want 0. There are other tests. It is a decision only you can make. I was lucky and didn't need radition. I'm also on hormone therapy. Tamoxfen for 5 years, about 18 months down. I hope this helps. Good Luck no matter what option you decide.

    Janie

    To give you...
    To give you The best odds of not having a recurrence of your breast cancer...it doesn't just happen in your breast...it is sneaky and can reappear ANYWHERE in your body.......contrary to what someone keeps saying...there is NO CURE for cancer...if stages 0-3 were curable then none of us would ever have a recurrence...the best is remission....no evidence of disease.....and stage IV, again, contrary to what has been said isn't an automatic death sentence!

    It's always a personal decision as to what treatment we accept or refuse....I wish you the best in making your decision...
  • sdukowitz
    sdukowitz Member Posts: 250
    #9
    decisions, decisions
    Katy,

    I was told I didn't need either radiation or chemo by my surgeon, but he must have though otherwise deep inside, because he wasn't an oncologist and referred me 3 hrs. away to a medical oncologist. She, in turn, referred me to the radiation oncologist. There is some kind of scale the radiation oncologist uses . . . I was 6 1/2 out of 7 on that scale, so made the decision to do the "Canadian" version of radiation . . . three and a half weeks instead of 6- 8 weeks, due to the travel involved for me.

    I just wanted to make sure I was doing everything possible to prevent a recurrence in the future. I am now on a 5 year plan of tamoxifin for the same reason. It still may all come back some day, but knowing I took all of the drs. precautions makes me feel better overall. Radiation took only a few minutes under a machine, didn't hurt and I had no side effects. But again, everyone is different . . . and each makes his/her own decisions in the long run.

    The main problem I am having after the tamoxifin for six weeks so far is hot flashes, but am learning to deal with them. Back to work and everything and feeling great!

    Again, go with what you feel is right . . . there are no guarantees with any of this stuff!
  • laughs_a_lot
    laughs_a_lot Member Posts: 1,368 Member
    #10
    Hedged my bets
    I did all reccomended treatments to hedge my bets. Here is what I told the grandkids about cancer after the operation.

    The doctor thinks he got all the cancer with the operation. Just to make sure the other doctor wants to do chemo. Chemo is like vigilantes running all over your body hunting for run away cancer cells. You see cancer cells like to get out of the place they started like run away teenagers. They party far away from thier parents. Then they might start having kids out there that will give me cancer somewhere else. They are scared of chemo as it is so strong it will make granma's hair fall out.

    Needless to say the 9 year old grandtwins were laughing thier kiester's off with the story I gave them. Oversimplified for an adult for sure but they got the idea. They had heard about chemo and how sick people get. I wanted them to know that there was an important reason I would make myself sick by doing it. They were glad I did it. We didn't have a conversation about the radiation.
  • SIROD
    SIROD Member Posts: 2,194 Member
    #11
    laughs_a_lot said:

    Hedged my bets
    I did all reccomended treatments to hedge my bets. Here is what I told the grandkids about cancer after the operation.

    The doctor thinks he got all the cancer with the operation. Just to make sure the other doctor wants to do chemo. Chemo is like vigilantes running all over your body hunting for run away cancer cells. You see cancer cells like to get out of the place they started like run away teenagers. They party far away from thier parents. Then they might start having kids out there that will give me cancer somewhere else. They are scared of chemo as it is so strong it will make granma's hair fall out.

    Needless to say the 9 year old grandtwins were laughing thier kiester's off with the story I gave them. Oversimplified for an adult for sure but they got the idea. They had heard about chemo and how sick people get. I wanted them to know that there was an important reason I would make myself sick by doing it. They were glad I did it. We didn't have a conversation about the radiation.

    To Laughs_a_lot
    Excellent, excellent way to express it. Made me smile.

    Thanks,

    Doris
  • Kylez
    Kylez Member Posts: 3,761 Member
    #12
    TraciInLA said:

    Because there's no way to know for sure
    Katy,

    Cancer cells can be too tiny for a scan or surgeon to detect, and unfortunately they don't always "behave" and stay inside a tumor -- sometimes they decide to go on a little trip to see what other parts of your body look good to them.

    The purpose of chemo is to destroy any microscopic cancer cells that may be cruising around in your bloodstream. The purpose of radiation is to destroy any cancer cells that may be left behind at the site of surgery (often not recommended with mastectomy, but always recommended with lumpectomy). The purpose of hormone therapy is to cut off the "food supply" (i.e., estrogen) to any estrogen-positive cancer cells that might be left behind.

    I hope that helps explain why one or more of these may be recommended for you after your surgery. Roseann's suggestion to ask about the Oncotype DX test is a good one -- many oncologists feel it's a helpful decision-making tool.

    Traci

    Traci explained it all
    Traci explained it all perfectly!
  • Lynn Smith
    Lynn Smith Member Posts: 1,264 Member
    #13
    SIROD said:

    To Laughs_a_lot
    Excellent, excellent way to express it. Made me smile.

    Thanks,

    Doris

    I was told
    I was told no chemo or radiation soon after my DCIS dx.I accepted what the surgeon said.I trust him but I still asked my oncologist and my family doctor what they thought. They agreed with my dx(non invasive) and the very tiny tumor I didn't need chemo or radiation.The cancer was confined to the milk duct. A second surgery(margin surgery) was done 3 weeks later to make sure all cancer cells were gone.Glad because I found a tumor(benign)2 days prior to that surgery.

    I might have gone a bit farther like sdukowitz.There is always that wonder"Did I do the right thing by not getting a second opinion" but I did talk to my family doctor and oncologist. I PRAY now.My mom lived 60 years.She made it without chemo or radiation but she had her breast removed. That was a long time ago before all the treatments they do today.

    I think I might have liked to have just a few radiation treatments like sdukowitz. You know that security thing.

    Lynn Smith
  • DianeBC
    DianeBC Member Posts: 3,881 Member
    #14
    SIROD said:

    Give Yourself The Best Odds!
    There is no guarantee that malignant cells haven't escape via the blood or lymph nodes. You want to give yourself the best odds in beating cancer when it is at Stages 0-3, it's curable.

    Don't do everything then it might come back as stage IV. This stage is treatable and some live many years but in the end the disease with kill you. With all the pink rah, rah, rah, breast cancer remains a deadly disease. Never doubt that and do some research on this topic. Read books, go to good web sites, read forums, discussion boards on breast cancer.

    My opinion is to give yourself the best odds,

    Best wishes on this journey,

    Doris

    I had a lumpectomy with
    I had a lumpectomy with rads. I didn't need chemo. I, personally, am glad I did rads as the radiation killed any stray cancer cells left behind from my surgery and I don't want any of them moving around my body. So for me, it was a good choice.

    Hugs, Diane
  • SIROD
    SIROD Member Posts: 2,194 Member
    #15
    MAJW said:

    To give you...
    To give you The best odds of not having a recurrence of your breast cancer...it doesn't just happen in your breast...it is sneaky and can reappear ANYWHERE in your body.......contrary to what someone keeps saying...there is NO CURE for cancer...if stages 0-3 were curable then none of us would ever have a recurrence...the best is remission....no evidence of disease.....and stage IV, again, contrary to what has been said isn't an automatic death sentence!

    It's always a personal decision as to what treatment we accept or refuse....I wish you the best in making your decision...

    Some are Cured - Uncertainty Binds Us All Together.
    "contrary to what someone keeps saying...there is NO CURE for cancer...if stages 0-3 were curable then none of us would ever have a recurrence...the best is remission....no evidence of disease.....and stage IV, again, contrary to what has been said isn't an automatic death sentence!

    Dear Nancy,

    From the National Cancer Institute Women only

    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/treatment/breast/healthprofessional/page1

    There are 230,480 case of new cancer each year

    There are 39,520 death from cancer each year

    Do the math!


    Some women will have a local or regional recurrence and then go on to live a normal life. The majority of women diagnose with stage 0-3 will go on and live a cancer free life. So for all practical purposes they are CURED. This stage after treatment doesn’t have a disease, so there is no remission. They will have NED on their charts unless they go on to have a local, regional, or distant recurrence.

    The negative is we don't know who will go on to be diagnose with distant metastasis. One can be stage 0 and morph to what we call stage IV. Some with large cm tumors with many, many malignant lymph nodes will never have another brush with breast cancer.

    Some are diagnose with stage IV at the onset. Other women will be diagnose with distant metastasis or advance cancer.

    True it is not an automatic death sentence in 2011 and hasn't been for many, many years. However, except for that 1% who are suppose to survive metastatic breast cancer, as it stand now, all the others will succumb to the disease in due time. There is always hope that something new will prove to be the magic we have all wanted and have been waiting patiently for so many years.

    Some women have lived 30 years with metastatic disease. In 2009 at the Metastatic Breast Cancer conference sponsored by Dana Farber, a woman named Rita Arditti spoke of living 30 years with distant metastasis. She was diagnose at age 39 and died at age 75 from breast cancer. A friend of mine lived 26 years with metastatic bc, having had the disease for 34 years, dying also in her mid 70's. Some can live a long, long time with quality of life. They are not the norm. Many do go into remission and also have NED on their chart but, it does manage to return at some point.

    This stage has no cure and eventually the cancer learns how to deactivate all treatments.

    What we all share as a sisterhood is the uncertainty of breast cancer. If we are stages 0-3, we are always waiting for the other shoe to drop. If we are stage IV, we dread progression and every scan.

    Doris
  • MAJW
    MAJW Member Posts: 2,510 Member
    #16
    SIROD said:

    Some are Cured - Uncertainty Binds Us All Together.
    "contrary to what someone keeps saying...there is NO CURE for cancer...if stages 0-3 were curable then none of us would ever have a recurrence...the best is remission....no evidence of disease.....and stage IV, again, contrary to what has been said isn't an automatic death sentence!

    Dear Nancy,

    From the National Cancer Institute Women only

    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/treatment/breast/healthprofessional/page1

    There are 230,480 case of new cancer each year

    There are 39,520 death from cancer each year

    Do the math!


    Some women will have a local or regional recurrence and then go on to live a normal life. The majority of women diagnose with stage 0-3 will go on and live a cancer free life. So for all practical purposes they are CURED. This stage after treatment doesn’t have a disease, so there is no remission. They will have NED on their charts unless they go on to have a local, regional, or distant recurrence.

    The negative is we don't know who will go on to be diagnose with distant metastasis. One can be stage 0 and morph to what we call stage IV. Some with large cm tumors with many, many malignant lymph nodes will never have another brush with breast cancer.

    Some are diagnose with stage IV at the onset. Other women will be diagnose with distant metastasis or advance cancer.

    True it is not an automatic death sentence in 2011 and hasn't been for many, many years. However, except for that 1% who are suppose to survive metastatic breast cancer, as it stand now, all the others will succumb to the disease in due time. There is always hope that something new will prove to be the magic we have all wanted and have been waiting patiently for so many years.

    Some women have lived 30 years with metastatic disease. In 2009 at the Metastatic Breast Cancer conference sponsored by Dana Farber, a woman named Rita Arditti spoke of living 30 years with distant metastasis. She was diagnose at age 39 and died at age 75 from breast cancer. A friend of mine lived 26 years with metastatic bc, having had the disease for 34 years, dying also in her mid 70's. Some can live a long, long time with quality of life. They are not the norm. Many do go into remission and also have NED on their chart but, it does manage to return at some point.

    This stage has no cure and eventually the cancer learns how to deactivate all treatments.

    What we all share as a sisterhood is the uncertainty of breast cancer. If we are stages 0-3, we are always waiting for the other shoe to drop. If we are stage IV, we dread progression and every scan.

    Doris

    I do quite well with math!
    My only comment in return.....the word is diagnosed! Not diagnose....
  • survivorbc09
    survivorbc09 Member Posts: 4,374 Member
    #17
    MAJW said:

    To give you...
    To give you The best odds of not having a recurrence of your breast cancer...it doesn't just happen in your breast...it is sneaky and can reappear ANYWHERE in your body.......contrary to what someone keeps saying...there is NO CURE for cancer...if stages 0-3 were curable then none of us would ever have a recurrence...the best is remission....no evidence of disease.....and stage IV, again, contrary to what has been said isn't an automatic death sentence!

    It's always a personal decision as to what treatment we accept or refuse....I wish you the best in making your decision...

    Chemo was not recommended
    Chemo was not recommended for me but rads was since I had a lumpectomy. I think having rads after a lumpectomy is very common. There are also some pink sisters on this board that had a mastectomy and had rads also.

    This is such a personal choice to do what your doctors recommend or not. I just knew I wanted to live and to fight with all that I could.


    Good luck to you,


    Jan
  • Rague
    Rague Member Posts: 3,653 Member
    #18
    SIROD said:

    Some are Cured - Uncertainty Binds Us All Together.
    "contrary to what someone keeps saying...there is NO CURE for cancer...if stages 0-3 were curable then none of us would ever have a recurrence...the best is remission....no evidence of disease.....and stage IV, again, contrary to what has been said isn't an automatic death sentence!

    Dear Nancy,

    From the National Cancer Institute Women only

    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/treatment/breast/healthprofessional/page1

    There are 230,480 case of new cancer each year

    There are 39,520 death from cancer each year

    Do the math!


    Some women will have a local or regional recurrence and then go on to live a normal life. The majority of women diagnose with stage 0-3 will go on and live a cancer free life. So for all practical purposes they are CURED. This stage after treatment doesn’t have a disease, so there is no remission. They will have NED on their charts unless they go on to have a local, regional, or distant recurrence.

    The negative is we don't know who will go on to be diagnose with distant metastasis. One can be stage 0 and morph to what we call stage IV. Some with large cm tumors with many, many malignant lymph nodes will never have another brush with breast cancer.

    Some are diagnose with stage IV at the onset. Other women will be diagnose with distant metastasis or advance cancer.

    True it is not an automatic death sentence in 2011 and hasn't been for many, many years. However, except for that 1% who are suppose to survive metastatic breast cancer, as it stand now, all the others will succumb to the disease in due time. There is always hope that something new will prove to be the magic we have all wanted and have been waiting patiently for so many years.

    Some women have lived 30 years with metastatic disease. In 2009 at the Metastatic Breast Cancer conference sponsored by Dana Farber, a woman named Rita Arditti spoke of living 30 years with distant metastasis. She was diagnose at age 39 and died at age 75 from breast cancer. A friend of mine lived 26 years with metastatic bc, having had the disease for 34 years, dying also in her mid 70's. Some can live a long, long time with quality of life. They are not the norm. Many do go into remission and also have NED on their chart but, it does manage to return at some point.

    This stage has no cure and eventually the cancer learns how to deactivate all treatments.

    What we all share as a sisterhood is the uncertainty of breast cancer. If we are stages 0-3, we are always waiting for the other shoe to drop. If we are stage IV, we dread progression and every scan.

    Doris

    Cancer is cured ?
    So you are stating there is a CURE for cancer? My Drs would love to know about it.

    I'm IBC - not the greatest prognosis but I'm 2 1/2 yrs post DX and doing great. Defrinately not 'CURED' but NED. Life is to be lived to be lived to the ultimate.

    Susan
  • SIROD
    SIROD Member Posts: 2,194 Member
    #19
    Rague said:

    Cancer is cured ?
    So you are stating there is a CURE for cancer? My Drs would love to know about it.

    I'm IBC - not the greatest prognosis but I'm 2 1/2 yrs post DX and doing great. Defrinately not 'CURED' but NED. Life is to be lived to be lived to the ultimate.

    Susan

    Most Live a Life Free of Cancer After Treatment
    Dear Susan,

    I read many forums, discussion boards and I am in my 15+ of reading these online. 70% never again experience cancer and die of something else, how would you refer these women and men? I wish it were 100% but, it isn't "YET". There is new hope in the trials going on today.

    IBC is an extremely serious diagnose. One woman who was diagnose IBC on one of the boards that I am reading is now in her 8th year with NED. If she dies of old age, would you not say she was cured of her cancer? I suppose one could say she was in remission for many years but died of heart disease. You may go to stage IV but let's really hope you don't. That is what we don't know about the disease, some with every hope of not recurring do and some who expect to recur never do. The disease holds these stages hostage their entire life or until they recur. Then the fear is progression and how fast.

    On my old forum there was a doctor whose wife had breast cancer, ( he came on when it was one of the only forums for BC on the internet) and his mantra was "Prepare for the worse, hope for the best and live life to the hilt". Whether one is stage 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4, it applies to each of us.

    I can't be pink Susan, I have tumors every where in my lungs and they are good size. Lungs are consider a vital organ, so it is very serious too. I am on the darker side of that color. I see things differently than when your not there yet.

    Wishing you the best,

    Doris
  • jne66
    jne66 Member Posts: 26
    #20
    When my father was diagnosed
    When my father was diagnosed with colon cancer that doctor said cancer cells were like seeds in the wind and you never if or where they may take root.. Those were my first thoughts when I received my diagnosis. Chemo is miserable but it's a short time for the benefit it can give. I want go to heaven but I don't want to go now.
  • camul
    camul Member Posts: 2,537
    #21
    Hi Katy
    Because like most have said, there is no guarantee that they got every cell, or even all the breast tissue. I had a single mastectomy with chemo and still got a recurrence, but do believe that I would not have been 8 1/2 years in remission (or neds) without the chemo. I was given the choice an believed that my cancer is related to Hormone Replacement Therapy, and all the research I had done on HRT induced bc, led me to this decision as did my oncologist and the surgeon. No regrets on having the mastectomy and for me I believe that chemo was my best option. I am now stage iv, but believe I would have gotten to this point sooner without the chemo.

    I do not agree that some are cured. As far as I have learned through research, my onco, and second opinions, there is no cure for breast cancer period. Some have a recurrence and some don't. If I die of something other than bc, it does not mean I was cured just that I died of something else.

    But I also know from research that for the amount of people diagnosed with breast cancer, not everyone has a recurrence, and most don't die from it. So this is really a personal choice and like everything else, you have to do your research and make a decision based on your information and gut feeling on whether or not to have chemo. It is a personal choice and chemo is not for everyone.

    Prayers and good luck to you, this is a difficult decision.

    Carol

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