Dad met with Oncologist today. Not the greatest news. When is it time to recognize that sometimes ho

Hi EC forum friends,

I'm having a sad day. My dad just phoned me and updated me on his first appointment today with Dr. Noble (an Oncologist) here at Sudbury's Northern Cancer Centre. Back in early December my dad went for his PET Scan in Toronto, ON. The PET scan showed that there was cancer in the Esophegus (which we knew) and that there looked to be some activity in the hip, but they were not convinced it was cancer, and didn't seem concerned. They (the Thoracic Surgeon who first saw my dad) said that it could have been from a previous fall, accident, or even from when he had Polio as a child. Anyways, he has since had the MIE surgury on the 14th of December, followed by another surgery as he experienced internal leaking, and is now in recovery. He always assumed that chemo and radiation were next in his battle against this beast, but was informed today that the Oncologist (Dr. Noble) thinks it could be cancer in the hip and if so, then doing the chemo and radiation is likely not the answer as he (The MD) would have to weigh the pros against the cons and decide whether they are fighting a lost battle. I know this all sounds so strange, my step mother is attending all of the appointments with my dad, and it seems as though we are getting the 'dumbed down' summary.

I asked my dad if his continuation with treatment depends on this one Oncologists opinion, and that it seems that this ONE Doctor determines whether we fight or not, and my dad said (in a round about way) yes. That from what he learned today, it is the Oncologists call on whether we go ahead with treatment or not if it is infact in his hip now. He is having an MRI done to see if it is infact cancer in the hip on Feb.1 (I didn't know an MRI could detect that as I am really knew to all of this).

My sisters and I have been talking, and we're not really thrilled with not getting actual facts from the Doctor. My stepmom said that the Oncologist said that the chemo and radiation my dad would need to fight this is incredibly toxic, my stepmom said she asked how toxic, and the nurse in the room said it could be fatally toxic and that is why the Oncologist may rule out chemo and radiation if it is infact in the hip.

Does any of this make sense? I am frustrated that I don't have better information, but like I said, this is all information passed down to me. I'm not there with them to get the information first hand. I'm on the verge of intervening as I feel so uninformed.

My sister and I both recommended he get a 2nd and possibly a 3rd opinion, and my step mom and dad said they would consider it, but really hadn't given it much thought.

I just want to SCREAM! I'm sad, I'm angry...I feel defeated. I've been so positive, especially after reading your posts. My sister has said that she has felt much better, and more optimistic after reading your posts (she is too shy to write on here, but she reads! and collects information). I want to remain positive, but I'm starting to feel ...defeated.

Sorry for such a long post. I just had to write out my thoughts, perhaps I should get a diary ;)
Thanks for listening,

Jennifer

Comments

  • jgwright
    jgwright Member Posts: 242
    I know how you feel.
    My first oncologist only ordered an MRI after I told him I was getting a second opinion. Though the PET scan noticed possible mets to the spine and brain, the MRI said NOPE. PETs are good for finding activity, but aren't detailed enough. MRIs can find where to look to find detailed structures. And the radiologists can then understand what's up.

    Y'know... It was my SURGEON who actually gave me my staging after my endoscopic ultrasound, although my second oncologist agreed with him, and sent the info to the first oncologist.

    I'm surprised and saddened they didn't do the MRI first, and put your dad on chemo and radiation. As I said earlier, "All oncologists are NOT created equal".

    --Jerry
  • froggerjen
    froggerjen Member Posts: 28
    It's like I am writing your post
    Jennifer,

    This is Jen, and my Dad has EC as well. What you are writing is so similar to what my sister and I have experienced, it's almost scarey! We experienced the "dumbed down" thing as well. So we made sure we are allowed to call the doctor ourselves and have permission to receive any information. I think my parents were and are still in denial, shock, whatever else you want to call it, and just simply don't hear and remember everything being said in medical appointments. When we ask them questions, simple questions,they don't know. They give some vague answer that doesn't make sense. Or, say for example, I go with to a doctor's appointment. Then my Mom will tell my sister completely incorrect information relating to that doctor's visit. I mean, you have to respect your parents as adults, but also want to be the best informed you can.

    My dad put off his chemo/radiation for months because they were moving into a new house, then this and that excuse..... eventually he had to face it, though, which he is now. Hang in there, I know exactly how you are feeling right now. The first time my Dad started chemo , the stupid nurse(sorry, that's how I feel) said to my parents that my Dad was getting the "big guns" of chemo. That scared the crap out of my Mom.. geez. See if your dad will put you on the medical chart as someone who has permission to receive information. Then call the doctor yourself and ask ask ask, as many questions as you want. That's what they are there for. My sister calls my Dad's doctor at the Mayo every week or more just to ask questions. They are more than willing to answer and take time to talk to her. Hang in there, you can msg me privately if you want to talk more.

    Jen
  • jss2011
    jss2011 Member Posts: 132
    Dad
    Hi Jennifer,
    I wish you knew exactly what was going on with your Dad. Once you have all the facts it is easier to decide on a plan. Will your Dad give permission for you to talk with the drs?
    Hoping the scan does not show cancer in the hip, in the mean time, stay strong, we are all here for you.

    Hugs,
    Julie
  • sham81
    sham81 Member Posts: 41
    i will pray
    Dear Jenniffer

    I will pray for u n u r dad tht its not a met in hips, which I am sure it aint I can't undertand though how could u r doctor operate on ur dad when he was unsure abt the hips... I think u need to fly down n meet the doctor take a weeks break I think your dad needs u now more than ever ... U have to be the strong one u have to go there and help him make the right decisions
    Love and regards
    Shammi
  • jgwright said:

    I know how you feel.
    My first oncologist only ordered an MRI after I told him I was getting a second opinion. Though the PET scan noticed possible mets to the spine and brain, the MRI said NOPE. PETs are good for finding activity, but aren't detailed enough. MRIs can find where to look to find detailed structures. And the radiologists can then understand what's up.

    Y'know... It was my SURGEON who actually gave me my staging after my endoscopic ultrasound, although my second oncologist agreed with him, and sent the info to the first oncologist.

    I'm surprised and saddened they didn't do the MRI first, and put your dad on chemo and radiation. As I said earlier, "All oncologists are NOT created equal".

    --Jerry

    Thanks Jerry, I thought it
    Thanks Jerry, I thought it was strange how the Thoracic surgeon staged my dad, but now I'm hopeful that he was right all along, and the the Oncologist is wrong about this one. I just pray that there are no mets in his hip. Thanks for your words of encouragment. It helps the heart,

    Jen
  • It's like I am writing your post
    Jennifer,

    This is Jen, and my Dad has EC as well. What you are writing is so similar to what my sister and I have experienced, it's almost scarey! We experienced the "dumbed down" thing as well. So we made sure we are allowed to call the doctor ourselves and have permission to receive any information. I think my parents were and are still in denial, shock, whatever else you want to call it, and just simply don't hear and remember everything being said in medical appointments. When we ask them questions, simple questions,they don't know. They give some vague answer that doesn't make sense. Or, say for example, I go with to a doctor's appointment. Then my Mom will tell my sister completely incorrect information relating to that doctor's visit. I mean, you have to respect your parents as adults, but also want to be the best informed you can.

    My dad put off his chemo/radiation for months because they were moving into a new house, then this and that excuse..... eventually he had to face it, though, which he is now. Hang in there, I know exactly how you are feeling right now. The first time my Dad started chemo , the stupid nurse(sorry, that's how I feel) said to my parents that my Dad was getting the "big guns" of chemo. That scared the crap out of my Mom.. geez. See if your dad will put you on the medical chart as someone who has permission to receive information. Then call the doctor yourself and ask ask ask, as many questions as you want. That's what they are there for. My sister calls my Dad's doctor at the Mayo every week or more just to ask questions. They are more than willing to answer and take time to talk to her. Hang in there, you can msg me privately if you want to talk more.

    Jen

    Hi Jen,
    I hate to say that

    Hi Jen,

    I hate to say that I'm glad I'm not the only one, but at the same time...it's nice to know that someone can relate. I agree with you, I'm not feeling involved. I feel like everyone on this forum is so well informed, and I feel lost. I wish I knew more. I really should talk to my sisters (I have two)and see what we can do to get more involved. You're right in saying that I don't want to step on their toes, but maybe they aren't hearing all the pertinent information because they are still in shock from it all.

    I think I need to be very sensative with my approach, and let them know that I care, and I want to do whatever I can to help. Even if that means attending the appointments just to take notes. We will see. It's a delicate matter.

    Thanks for your reply. It seems we are very much so in the same boat. Lets pray our dads come through this and we have more time to make happy memories

    Jennifer
  • jss2011 said:

    Dad
    Hi Jennifer,
    I wish you knew exactly what was going on with your Dad. Once you have all the facts it is easier to decide on a plan. Will your Dad give permission for you to talk with the drs?
    Hoping the scan does not show cancer in the hip, in the mean time, stay strong, we are all here for you.

    Hugs,
    Julie

    Thank you Julie
    Thanks Julie, let's just hope! I believe my dad would allow me to attend. Some days I want to just give up being hopeful, but I can't give up on my dad. Thanks for your kind words.

    Jennifer
  • sham81 said:

    i will pray
    Dear Jenniffer

    I will pray for u n u r dad tht its not a met in hips, which I am sure it aint I can't undertand though how could u r doctor operate on ur dad when he was unsure abt the hips... I think u need to fly down n meet the doctor take a weeks break I think your dad needs u now more than ever ... U have to be the strong one u have to go there and help him make the right decisions
    Love and regards
    Shammi

    Thanks Shammi
    Thanks Shammi, I think I'll do that. Time for me to have a talk with my dad. Thanks for your reply,

    Jennifer
  • sham81 said:

    i will pray
    Dear Jenniffer

    I will pray for u n u r dad tht its not a met in hips, which I am sure it aint I can't undertand though how could u r doctor operate on ur dad when he was unsure abt the hips... I think u need to fly down n meet the doctor take a weeks break I think your dad needs u now more than ever ... U have to be the strong one u have to go there and help him make the right decisions
    Love and regards
    Shammi

    Thanks Shammi
    Thanks Shammi, I think I'll do that. Time for me to have a talk with my dad. Thanks for your reply,

    Jennifer
  • sham81 said:

    i will pray
    Dear Jenniffer

    I will pray for u n u r dad tht its not a met in hips, which I am sure it aint I can't undertand though how could u r doctor operate on ur dad when he was unsure abt the hips... I think u need to fly down n meet the doctor take a weeks break I think your dad needs u now more than ever ... U have to be the strong one u have to go there and help him make the right decisions
    Love and regards
    Shammi

    Thanks Shammi
    Thanks Shammi, I think I'll do that. Time for me to have a talk with my dad. Thanks for your reply,

    Jennifer
  • Thanks Shammi
    Thanks Shammi, I think I'll do that. Time for me to have a talk with my dad. Thanks for your reply,

    Jennifer

    This site keeps kicking me
    This site keeps kicking me off! Sorry for the repeat posts, I think because it's trying to connect it enters it a few times.
  • paul61
    paul61 Member Posts: 1,392 Member
    I would really suggest a second opinion
    Jennifer,

    I am not sure how easy this is to do under the Canadian medical system, but I would suggest that you have your parents inform you Dad's oncologist that you should be given access to all of his medical notes and test results (I have heard from other Canadian patients that this can be a challenge) and I would request a second opinion.

    Post operative chemotherapy is certainly a challenge, I can speak from personal experience. But it is survivable. The chemo drugs are very powerful and depending on your Dad's other medical profile accommodations may have to be made. I know the oncologist does not want to put your Dad through suffering that does not change the final outcome. But if it were me, I would want to hear it from one other oncologist before I accepted it.

    I hope the news improves as things move forward,


    Best Regards,

    Paul Adams
    McCormick, South Carolina

    DX 10/22/2009 T2N1M0 Stage IIB
    12/03/2009 Ivor Lewis
    2/8 through 6/14/2010 Adjuvant Chemo Cisplatin, Epirubicin, 5 FU
    Two year survivor

    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!
  • sandy1943
    sandy1943 Member Posts: 824
    Jen, When I was diagnosed,
    Jen, When I was diagnosed, My daughter went with my husband and I to every appointment. We let her take down notes on what was said . The doctors were very good at directing things to her so she wouldn't miss it. We also got copies of all lab results and kept them with the notes. I would miss a lot of what was said and would have to check the notes. Even though my daughter was also under stress, she did a very good job.
    I really feel if they would allow you or your sister to do this, it would benefit them so much.Three sets of ears is a lot better than two!
    Sandra
  • paul61 said:

    I would really suggest a second opinion
    Jennifer,

    I am not sure how easy this is to do under the Canadian medical system, but I would suggest that you have your parents inform you Dad's oncologist that you should be given access to all of his medical notes and test results (I have heard from other Canadian patients that this can be a challenge) and I would request a second opinion.

    Post operative chemotherapy is certainly a challenge, I can speak from personal experience. But it is survivable. The chemo drugs are very powerful and depending on your Dad's other medical profile accommodations may have to be made. I know the oncologist does not want to put your Dad through suffering that does not change the final outcome. But if it were me, I would want to hear it from one other oncologist before I accepted it.

    I hope the news improves as things move forward,


    Best Regards,

    Paul Adams
    McCormick, South Carolina

    DX 10/22/2009 T2N1M0 Stage IIB
    12/03/2009 Ivor Lewis
    2/8 through 6/14/2010 Adjuvant Chemo Cisplatin, Epirubicin, 5 FU
    Two year survivor

    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!

    I agree Paul, a second
    I agree Paul, a second opinion is a must. Thanks for your reply!

    Jen
  • chemosmoker
    chemosmoker Member Posts: 501
    DP
    DP
  • chemosmoker
    chemosmoker Member Posts: 501
    YES YES YES YES YES
    Jennifer,
    GET those second and third opinions. THAT IS THAT SIMPLE. DO NOT OVERLOOK THIS STEP!!!





    With Love,
    Eric
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