Dietary Approaches to Fighting Cancer

JoAnnDK said:

desserts
I have not seen the chefs make a panna cotta yet, Jill, but Giada often makes them on her show. The clafouti is a recipe from Ina Garten.

Enjoy your margarita. Cheers!

Kefir?
There's been alot of discussion about dairy. I'm wondering if anyone is drinking kefir? This was OK on my alternative doc's diet. The Budwig Protocol also says to use flaxseed oil with cottage cheese or kefir, I believe.

I just brewed some kefir (I purchased culture in health food store).

Mary Ann

daisy366 said:

Kefir?
There's been alot of discussion about dairy. I'm wondering if anyone is drinking kefir? This was OK on my alternative doc's diet. The Budwig Protocol also says to use flaxseed oil with cottage cheese or kefir, I believe.

I just brewed some kefir (I purchased culture in health food store).

Mary Ann

Kefir
I used to. After I finished my long fast I started to make kefir from Tibetian mushroom, but it was too much kefir for me. Nobody at home drink it. Sometimes at the end of July I got that nasty summer cold, cough for 6 weeks, I even started looking for symptoms of lung metastasis.
Milk is milk. One of the worst mucus producing food what we can eat, so I dried that mushroom and for Budwig mix I occasionally by Greek yogurt.

jazzy1 said:

Mary Ann
You on the Budwig Protocol? I remember at beginning of my cancer journey reading up on this and decided to try it. Wow...it took everything in me to get it down twice per day, so I eventually stopped.

Anyone else trying this Budwig concoction? Curious....

Jan
Not now. I was on it last year for a short time. Occasionally I will add the flaxseed oil to cottage cheese or yogurt. Fruit, nuts, and cinnamon helps it go down easier.

JoAnnDK said:

protein
For those looking for more protein for your "buck", try FARRO. I discovered it a few months ago and may never go back to rice.

http://endurancebuzz.com/2011/01/25/farro-a-low-gluten-grain-packed-with-protein/

articles about supplements
I was at my radiation oncologist's office today and found the new copy of CURE, a magazine I really like - I often find interesting articles in it.

The issue I read had three articles about supplements, the first (link below) written by the chief of the Integrative Medicine service at Sloan Kettering.

http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1765

And this one: http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1748

and one more: http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1773

Interesting perspectives, especially the first article.

Tethys41 said:

Overall Misleading
I read these articles today as well. Overall I found them to be biased and vague. Yet the overall message was loud and clear that supplements are not beneficial and my even interfere with your cancer treatment. But, in the same article they said doctors really don't know. There was no mention in this article about the numerous trials that have been conducted in hospitals like MD Anderson, that have shown positive results with the use of supplements in treating cancer. There was no mention of supplement used at cancer hospitals in Mexico and the amazing results these patients experience. In this country, doctors are trained to prescribe pharmeceuticals that go through a review by the FDA. Most are taught not to trust anything that is not FDA approved and they pass this down to their patients.
Naturopaths, on the other hand, learn how the body functions with the use of supplements and how supplements help in fighting and preventing disease. I would certainly trust a reputable naturopath to guide me in the right direction with regard to supplements during cancer treatment, and have. At the end of one of the articles, it states that vitamin D may hold some hope. Naturopaths have known for years that people who get cancer tend to have a deficiency in vitamin D. That is one of the first things they work to rectify with their patients. These articles in this issue of Cure really reduced my faith that this magazine provides accurate, unbiased information.

common sense
Funny, I thought there was a lot of common sense expressed in those articles and gave particular weight to the one by the director of Integrative Medicine at Sloan Kettering. If anyone's opinion carries heft, hers does.

"Supplements are not benign—they affect the body in different ways. They can alter the immune system, change hormone balance or affect the way blood coagulates." ———>>>Well, this certainly makes sense!

"Researchers often favor the position that supplements may be neither good nor bad by themselves, and that it likely depends on how much you take and when.

It’s usually a function of dose,” says Michael Wargovich, PhD, director of cancer chemoprevention at the Hollings Cancer Center at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. “People jump overboard and think more is better.” ———>>>>And this makes sense too.

For example, if someone came to this discussion board and was desperate to do something besides chemo, it would be possible that she might take the absolute wrong combination of supplements. And who knows how those different supplements/herbs react with each other unless they have been prescribed by someone who knows what they are doing, like your reliable naturopath? I would guess that the vast number of people taking supplements for cancer are not seeing someone like that, but are basing their decisions on what they hear from other people or read online. And we all know there are a lot of charlatans out there selling "voodoo" stuff.

When I first looked at this board, I wrote down the things everyone was taking — and believe me, it was a very long list. Then I started doing some research, and found some suggestions that X and Y should not be taken together, then that Y and Z should not be taken together. So I started doing research on the research that has been done with supplements and it is very sparse and inconclusive. Much of the "evidence" is anecdotal rather than research-based scientific evidence. And yes, I realize that the companies that produce supplements do not have the vast resources that pharmaceutical companies do.

Besides curcumin, what supplements have come out of MD Anderson trials? I know one of their trial is with Vitamin D, so they must still be trying to see if it prevents cancer. Here is an article from their newsletter about one trial:

http://www.mdanderson.org/publications/conquest/issues/2009-spring/conquest-sping-2009-supplements-don-t-hold-the-answers.html

JoAnnDK said:

common sense
Funny, I thought there was a lot of common sense expressed in those articles and gave particular weight to the one by the director of Integrative Medicine at Sloan Kettering. If anyone's opinion carries heft, hers does.

"Supplements are not benign—they affect the body in different ways. They can alter the immune system, change hormone balance or affect the way blood coagulates." ———>>>Well, this certainly makes sense!

"Researchers often favor the position that supplements may be neither good nor bad by themselves, and that it likely depends on how much you take and when.

It’s usually a function of dose,” says Michael Wargovich, PhD, director of cancer chemoprevention at the Hollings Cancer Center at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. “People jump overboard and think more is better.” ———>>>>And this makes sense too.

For example, if someone came to this discussion board and was desperate to do something besides chemo, it would be possible that she might take the absolute wrong combination of supplements. And who knows how those different supplements/herbs react with each other unless they have been prescribed by someone who knows what they are doing, like your reliable naturopath? I would guess that the vast number of people taking supplements for cancer are not seeing someone like that, but are basing their decisions on what they hear from other people or read online. And we all know there are a lot of charlatans out there selling "voodoo" stuff.

When I first looked at this board, I wrote down the things everyone was taking — and believe me, it was a very long list. Then I started doing some research, and found some suggestions that X and Y should not be taken together, then that Y and Z should not be taken together. So I started doing research on the research that has been done with supplements and it is very sparse and inconclusive. Much of the "evidence" is anecdotal rather than research-based scientific evidence. And yes, I realize that the companies that produce supplements do not have the vast resources that pharmaceutical companies do.

Besides curcumin, what supplements have come out of MD Anderson trials? I know one of their trial is with Vitamin D, so they must still be trying to see if it prevents cancer. Here is an article from their newsletter about one trial:

http://www.mdanderson.org/publications/conquest/issues/2009-spring/conquest-sping-2009-supplements-don-t-hold-the-answers.html

Yes, Common Sense
JoAnn,
I don't think we are on opposite sides of the fence. I do agree that when addressing a disease like cancer, you can't just randomly pick supplements off the shelf and hope that you will get positive results. You definitely have to be aware of interactions and how the supplements will affect traditional treatment. I would no more recommend that patients choose their own supplement regimine as choose their own chemotherapies, without the guidance of a professional.
What was lacking in these articles, however, is that there is a lot of research and practical experience out there that indicates that supplements can acutally augment the effects of chemo drugs. I spend most of my time on the ovarian cancer board, as that is where my history lies. I find it sad the number of women who do not attain remission or have recurrances. I've learned, through personal experience and research, that using an integrative approach to this disease yields better outcomes. And I look forward to the day when the medical community can embrace that instead of being threatened by it. The current position does not serve patients well.

lindaprocopio said:

One other consideration that must be kept in mind in all this...
We mustn't forget that our cancer cells aren't some foreign parasite that entered our body from the outside; our cancer cells are US, as much as all of our other cells. In fact our cancer cells are US at our most adaptible, mobile, and strong, our evil Doppledanger perhaps, but still a part of our own body as much as any other cells within us. I cannot see how we can hope to assume that the things we eat and the supplements we take aren't affecting our cancer cells,too.

And without a lot of independent scientific study, I wouldn't personally feel equipped or well-educated enough to make those kinds of judgement calls on supplement combinations and dosage amounts. So I rely on a registered dietician that specialzes in cancer. She's very 'anti-supplements' unless a blood test proven deficiency requires emergency intervention that a change in diet can't accomplish fast enough. I believe my oncology team when they assure me that there is nothing I could have eaten or not eaten, nothing more whatsoever that I could have done, that could have prevented my SOOOOO powerful 'Doppledanger Linda' Grade 3 cancer cells from prevailing over their less adaptable and less mobile cousin cells. And I assure you that women who have had a recurrence don't take kindly to any insinuation that they have done less than they could. Please, everyone, be sensitive to that.

Not arguing
Sorry JoAnn and Linda, not trying to start an argument here. Linda, I certainly meant no offense by my comment and even after re-reading it, I don't see that I indicated anyone has not done everything they felt necessary to fight their disease. I'm sorry if you interpreted anything in that way. Just expressing my views and frustration with the system. Still don't like the mainstream position, still don't like the articles in CURE magazine. Nothing personal.

JoAnnDK said:

common sense
Funny, I thought there was a lot of common sense expressed in those articles and gave particular weight to the one by the director of Integrative Medicine at Sloan Kettering. If anyone's opinion carries heft, hers does.

"Supplements are not benign—they affect the body in different ways. They can alter the immune system, change hormone balance or affect the way blood coagulates." ———>>>Well, this certainly makes sense!

"Researchers often favor the position that supplements may be neither good nor bad by themselves, and that it likely depends on how much you take and when.

It’s usually a function of dose,” says Michael Wargovich, PhD, director of cancer chemoprevention at the Hollings Cancer Center at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. “People jump overboard and think more is better.” ———>>>>And this makes sense too.

For example, if someone came to this discussion board and was desperate to do something besides chemo, it would be possible that she might take the absolute wrong combination of supplements. And who knows how those different supplements/herbs react with each other unless they have been prescribed by someone who knows what they are doing, like your reliable naturopath? I would guess that the vast number of people taking supplements for cancer are not seeing someone like that, but are basing their decisions on what they hear from other people or read online. And we all know there are a lot of charlatans out there selling "voodoo" stuff.

When I first looked at this board, I wrote down the things everyone was taking — and believe me, it was a very long list. Then I started doing some research, and found some suggestions that X and Y should not be taken together, then that Y and Z should not be taken together. So I started doing research on the research that has been done with supplements and it is very sparse and inconclusive. Much of the "evidence" is anecdotal rather than research-based scientific evidence. And yes, I realize that the companies that produce supplements do not have the vast resources that pharmaceutical companies do.

Besides curcumin, what supplements have come out of MD Anderson trials? I know one of their trial is with Vitamin D, so they must still be trying to see if it prevents cancer. Here is an article from their newsletter about one trial:

http://www.mdanderson.org/publications/conquest/issues/2009-spring/conquest-sping-2009-supplements-don-t-hold-the-answers.html

Get your nutrition from food
I have to agree with the first link:

http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1765

Vitamin E IS a complex rather than an isolated substance. So that explains why the smoking studies didn't show any benefit from taking "vitamins."

Unfortunately, the food is only as good as the soil that it is grown on.

Differing perspectives
We all come on here to share what we have learned, with others, so that they have as much information as they can to choose from to make their decisions in regards to their treatment. Just as I don't assume that the person talking about chemo, radiation or any other of the typical treatments is directing their comments at myself, or any of the others here who choose to add nutrient based components to their regimens, I am surprised that anyone feels that sharing nutritional based information means that if they don't use it they are therefor not doing everything they can to help themselves, or that it is directed at some person in particular.

Maybe I'm naive. Probably am. Are all of you directing your chemo uses and talks at me? Do you all mean to imply that by my not doing what you are doing, I am not doing everything I can to help myself? Geeze Loiuse, I certainly hope not. Cause if you have been, I have totally missed that missive. I just assume you are sharing your experiences and knowledge, as am I and the others here --to help one another.

Shared information from me is just and only that, shared information. Please don't ever, any of you feel like you have to do something just because I've mentioned it. I hear what you all are doing. Okay. that's you and your decision. Fine by me. I often suggest that you take a particular study to your own physician to see if they would think it might be of use to you in your particular situation.

So, what if----wait. I did rather feel like the articles on anti supplementation was an attempt to dissuade some of those that take supplements. But again, I didn't take it personally, just thought, huh, that's ah, --well actually I thought of the source of the article, CURE mag, and looked at the ad revenue and thought, well what you might think, should you choose to think about it, since it was all chemo realted. But, again, didn't take it personally. And, as I said previously, I happen to like CURE mag, finding many of the articles very informative.

So, what I started to say up there was, let's just share what we have, knowing some will use the info and some won't, but whatever their choice, it's their choice. I mean, you can say what you feel about the info, but if it's not directed at someone, let it go. If I tried to defend my non chemo approach every time someone mentioned chemo or radiation, I would be very tired indeed.

The whole field is in flux. New ideas are being added. New ideas meeting old established ideas usually brings with it some resistance. Antiangiogenesis was met with such outright derision and hostility by the doctors who only wanted to do surgery chemo and radiation, it's a wonder the poor guy continued in his research. He was still being slammed in the press and by his peers after the NIH had given him the go ahead for clinical trials.This after nearly thirty years of investigation and lab trials. Newness is a hard row to hoe. And while I know that dietary treatment is not new, and is fact an anciently based treatment approach, it has just gotten lost in the drug, and surgery approach to curing disease and is simply trying to make a comeback, in the Western part of the world where it has gotten over ridden. Some of us are more on board than others. That's perfectly alright.

You know, maybe if someone is laughing at you and calling you a fool, it may just be a sign you are on the right track, and they are on a different train. And I'm saying that in regard to Folkman, not anyone here.

So, chemo and radiation works swimmingly for some. Chemo and radiation and additional adjustments to lifestyle, work swimmingly for others. Adjustments to lifestyle work swimming for still others. Obviously, do what works, that's do what works, for you. And if it's not working, why not try something else? I'm just saying. If my choices should fail me any time in the future, I will absolutely try other things, even chemo and or radiation if I feel that that has the best chance of giving me the best chance for survival at that point. Can't be much clearer than that.

And now, there was this absolutely beautiful man on the X Factor, whose eyes touched something in me, and I am off to see if I can't get a preliminary sketch done.

My love to you all, take a cleaning, cancer disturbing long deep, deep breath and relax, while thinking of Rodney King's message, if you can,

Claudia

california_artist said:

Differing perspectives
We all come on here to share what we have learned, with others, so that they have as much information as they can to choose from to make their decisions in regards to their treatment. Just as I don't assume that the person talking about chemo, radiation or any other of the typical treatments is directing their comments at myself, or any of the others here who choose to add nutrient based components to their regimens, I am surprised that anyone feels that sharing nutritional based information means that if they don't use it they are therefor not doing everything they can to help themselves, or that it is directed at some person in particular.

Maybe I'm naive. Probably am. Are all of you directing your chemo uses and talks at me? Do you all mean to imply that by my not doing what you are doing, I am not doing everything I can to help myself? Geeze Loiuse, I certainly hope not. Cause if you have been, I have totally missed that missive. I just assume you are sharing your experiences and knowledge, as am I and the others here --to help one another.

Shared information from me is just and only that, shared information. Please don't ever, any of you feel like you have to do something just because I've mentioned it. I hear what you all are doing. Okay. that's you and your decision. Fine by me. I often suggest that you take a particular study to your own physician to see if they would think it might be of use to you in your particular situation.

So, what if----wait. I did rather feel like the articles on anti supplementation was an attempt to dissuade some of those that take supplements. But again, I didn't take it personally, just thought, huh, that's ah, --well actually I thought of the source of the article, CURE mag, and looked at the ad revenue and thought, well what you might think, should you choose to think about it, since it was all chemo realted. But, again, didn't take it personally. And, as I said previously, I happen to like CURE mag, finding many of the articles very informative.

So, what I started to say up there was, let's just share what we have, knowing some will use the info and some won't, but whatever their choice, it's their choice. I mean, you can say what you feel about the info, but if it's not directed at someone, let it go. If I tried to defend my non chemo approach every time someone mentioned chemo or radiation, I would be very tired indeed.

The whole field is in flux. New ideas are being added. New ideas meeting old established ideas usually brings with it some resistance. Antiangiogenesis was met with such outright derision and hostility by the doctors who only wanted to do surgery chemo and radiation, it's a wonder the poor guy continued in his research. He was still being slammed in the press and by his peers after the NIH had given him the go ahead for clinical trials.This after nearly thirty years of investigation and lab trials. Newness is a hard row to hoe. And while I know that dietary treatment is not new, and is fact an anciently based treatment approach, it has just gotten lost in the drug, and surgery approach to curing disease and is simply trying to make a comeback, in the Western part of the world where it has gotten over ridden. Some of us are more on board than others. That's perfectly alright.

You know, maybe if someone is laughing at you and calling you a fool, it may just be a sign you are on the right track, and they are on a different train. And I'm saying that in regard to Folkman, not anyone here.

So, chemo and radiation works swimmingly for some. Chemo and radiation and additional adjustments to lifestyle, work swimmingly for others. Adjustments to lifestyle work swimming for still others. Obviously, do what works, that's do what works, for you. And if it's not working, why not try something else? I'm just saying. If my choices should fail me any time in the future, I will absolutely try other things, even chemo and or radiation if I feel that that has the best chance of giving me the best chance for survival at that point. Can't be much clearer than that.

And now, there was this absolutely beautiful man on the X Factor, whose eyes touched something in me, and I am off to see if I can't get a preliminary sketch done.

My love to you all, take a cleaning, cancer disturbing long deep, deep breath and relax, while thinking of Rodney King's message, if you can,

Claudia

Perhaps Tethys took my
Perhaps Tethys took my comments that were anti-man made vitamins & miscontrued that I am anti-supplement. On the contrary! I take lots of digestive aides, herbs, alpha lipoic acid, resveratrol, ginkgo, etc. I WISH I could get into remission but the best I can do is keep my tumors "quiescent" or dormant. I see the malignant cells that reside in my belly as "confused" and needing to be re-educated rather than the enemy.

I did take B6 when I was going thru chemo but saw it more as drug therapy rather than vitamin therapy. The IV ascorbic acid that I take is so far removed from the natural vitamin C that I see that as more of a drug than a real vitamin. If the ascorbic acid really WAS vitamin C, I don't think I would bruise so easily.

The ONLY thing that I am 100% sure of is that I have been able to mitigate many of the negative long-term effects of carboplatin by taking supplements. I think there are some other women were spared from having residual neuropathy, joint pain or whatever & they didn't even take supplements. But I have a "touchy liver" & needed all the help I could get.

Do I take curcumin? You bet! My gall bladder was removed so I don't have to worry about biliary stasis. I think it would benefit every cancer survivor if oncologists were more open to those integrative therapies that have been shown to have merit. Perhaps that is the way of the future.