looking for some objective opinions

yoga
yoga Member Posts: 87
in Colorectal Cancer #1
Hello fellow CC survivors,

I having been doing some naturopathic things for about a year now . . . . on top of loads of exercise, and continually changing/modifying my diet. Now I am looking into mistletoe injections and/or Vitamin C IV. My naturopathic doctor is open to doing both or either with me. I don't know the cost yet - I brought up the subject, so I know she isn't trying to sell me something. Does anyone have any experience with either of these? Also, what about experience with sauna detox?

I am just looking for some new avenues and things to try and would like some objective opinions from those who have tried any of the above. So far I have had some wonderful and thoughtful help and hopefully will find some more.

The research never ends . . . . thanks for all of your continued help!
yoga jo

Comments

  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
    #2
    Jo -

    A lot depends on where you are as far as the cancer...
    Do you presently have no signs of cancer, and are looking to
    keep it that way, or are there tumors that are about to take your
    life if not unchecked?

    All alternatives take time to work, whereas the toxic chemo or
    deadly radiation may work very quickly to stop a tumor from
    killing you. I personally prefer surgery to either above, but the
    order for me, would be:
    1 TCM
    2 surgery
    3 chemo

    I would not choose radiation unless it was the only way to
    kill a tumor in the last seconds prior to it killing me. And
    even then, I might choose the .45 instead.

    Without knowing your specific circumstance, it's difficult to
    type out an "opinion".

    But if you haven't yet considered Traditional Chinese Medicine,
    please take some time to research some of it?

    Google: TCM and Cancer

    It's been around a long, long time!

    Best hopes for good health,

    John
  • sharpy102
    sharpy102 Member Posts: 368 Member
    #3
    Vitamin C IV
    @Yoga: we tried Vitamin C IV (1000mg/day)...I cannot really say it worked...maybe it did slow the progression of cancer? I cannot say a definite answer to that either...I'm sorry. Our outcome was of negative one and that's why I am not sure how Vitamin C IV helped, or didn't help...We used b17 IV along with Vitamin C as well as daily dose of DCA (calculated to the weight of the person) as well as Avemar everyday, Flavin (also everyday). Like John mentioned...it really depends on what stage the person in and what is the progression of the cancer...I guess for a "last minute" life saving...none of these work, but like I said, they may helped a little (or a lot). The best to you and let us know how you are doing.
    - Sophie
  • yoga
    yoga Member Posts: 87
    #4
    John23 said:

    Jo -

    A lot depends on where you are as far as the cancer...
    Do you presently have no signs of cancer, and are looking to
    keep it that way, or are there tumors that are about to take your
    life if not unchecked?

    All alternatives take time to work, whereas the toxic chemo or
    deadly radiation may work very quickly to stop a tumor from
    killing you. I personally prefer surgery to either above, but the
    order for me, would be:
    1 TCM
    2 surgery
    3 chemo

    I would not choose radiation unless it was the only way to
    kill a tumor in the last seconds prior to it killing me. And
    even then, I might choose the .45 instead.

    Without knowing your specific circumstance, it's difficult to
    type out an "opinion".

    But if you haven't yet considered Traditional Chinese Medicine,
    please take some time to research some of it?

    Google: TCM and Cancer

    It's been around a long, long time!

    Best hopes for good health,

    John

    where I'm at
    Thanks.

    I was diagnosed Stage IV CC with aprox. 20 liver mets in July 2010 - inoperable. I started chemo in August 2010 and have completed 26 chemo. Ten chemo with Avastin, Irenotican and 5FU; the rest without Avastin as oncologist was concerned with some bleeding. I have been taking 20mg of Melatonin, Ave Ultra, Fractionated Pectin Powder, am presently at 3000 of Vit D, Omega 3 Salmon Oil. First oncologist gave me 2.2 years but my new one says there is no way to predict . . . . like second oncologist's thought process! Saw surgeon a couple of months ago - still inoperable, but says there is a slim chance that it might be a possibility . . . . I'll take that. Last CT showed no shrinkage but stable disease - until now there has always been shrinkage.

    I have seen lots of mention of TCM on this board so I do think it is something I should begin researching.

    Again, thanks . . . . and if you have anything thoughts to type please do!
    yoga yo (who is just finishing up a late night juicing of carrots, apple, lemon and fresh ginger)
  • yoga
    yoga Member Posts: 87
    #5
    sharpy102 said:

    Vitamin C IV
    @Yoga: we tried Vitamin C IV (1000mg/day)...I cannot really say it worked...maybe it did slow the progression of cancer? I cannot say a definite answer to that either...I'm sorry. Our outcome was of negative one and that's why I am not sure how Vitamin C IV helped, or didn't help...We used b17 IV along with Vitamin C as well as daily dose of DCA (calculated to the weight of the person) as well as Avemar everyday, Flavin (also everyday). Like John mentioned...it really depends on what stage the person in and what is the progression of the cancer...I guess for a "last minute" life saving...none of these work, but like I said, they may helped a little (or a lot). The best to you and let us know how you are doing.
    - Sophie

    Thanks Sophie . . . . . I
    Thanks Sophie . . . . . I appreciate what you have to say.
    yoga jo
  • laurettas
    laurettas Member Posts: 372
    #6
    sharpy102 said:

    Vitamin C IV
    @Yoga: we tried Vitamin C IV (1000mg/day)...I cannot really say it worked...maybe it did slow the progression of cancer? I cannot say a definite answer to that either...I'm sorry. Our outcome was of negative one and that's why I am not sure how Vitamin C IV helped, or didn't help...We used b17 IV along with Vitamin C as well as daily dose of DCA (calculated to the weight of the person) as well as Avemar everyday, Flavin (also everyday). Like John mentioned...it really depends on what stage the person in and what is the progression of the cancer...I guess for a "last minute" life saving...none of these work, but like I said, they may helped a little (or a lot). The best to you and let us know how you are doing.
    - Sophie

    DCA
    Hi Sophie,
    You mentioned that someone tried DCA for cancer. Could you talk about that a little bit? How long was the person on it? I assume from your comments that the treatment did not work well for the person using it. I was interested if DCA was helpful for cancer but hadn't seen too much about it lately. You are the only person I know with experience with this drug.
  • geotina
    geotina Member Posts: 2,111 Member
    #7
    yoga said:

    where I'm at
    Thanks.

    I was diagnosed Stage IV CC with aprox. 20 liver mets in July 2010 - inoperable. I started chemo in August 2010 and have completed 26 chemo. Ten chemo with Avastin, Irenotican and 5FU; the rest without Avastin as oncologist was concerned with some bleeding. I have been taking 20mg of Melatonin, Ave Ultra, Fractionated Pectin Powder, am presently at 3000 of Vit D, Omega 3 Salmon Oil. First oncologist gave me 2.2 years but my new one says there is no way to predict . . . . like second oncologist's thought process! Saw surgeon a couple of months ago - still inoperable, but says there is a slim chance that it might be a possibility . . . . I'll take that. Last CT showed no shrinkage but stable disease - until now there has always been shrinkage.

    I have seen lots of mention of TCM on this board so I do think it is something I should begin researching.

    Again, thanks . . . . and if you have anything thoughts to type please do!
    yoga yo (who is just finishing up a late night juicing of carrots, apple, lemon and fresh ginger)

    Hi Yoga:
    No experience here but wanted to let you know that Lisa (Lisa42) recently did the sauna detox stuff so she is a good source for that. If she doesn't see your post send her a personal message via CSN Email. She also wrote about it recently in several of her posts so you could do a search and find her posts.

    Best wishes - Tina
  • Kimo Sabe
    Kimo Sabe Member Posts: 64
    #8
    Vitamin C
    I am in the middle of the fifth round of XELOX treatment, and only recently learned about vitamin C. The toddler son of a friend of mine had a brain tumor which failed treatment with mainstream modalities. He was told there was no chance. He then went to vitamin C as a last resort. Years later his son remains alive and doing well.

    I know. I know. I can hear the skeptics: "That is just anecdotal testimony. How do you know it was really cancer? How do you know he didn't get better from his medical treatments instead of the vitamin C?" Well, skepticism is good. However, I've heard enough of similar stories to at least suggest there might be something to it.

    I know if I were starting over, or were to have treatment failure, I would give serious thought to it.

    What I have learned about vitamin C is its advocates use a dose much higher than discussed here (~10,000 units or more). Also, titration seems to be important in finding the right dose. I have more information on this, so let me know if you want it and I will e-mail it. (I think my e-mail is available on this site to participants, or you can get it at the bottom of the first page on my own website normponders. If there is additional interest, I'd be glad to simply put it on a temporary webpage.

    Best wishes. Please let us know how things go.

    Norm
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625 Member
    #9
    My experience
    Hi Yoga,

    Yes, I've done the sauna detox therapy. I did two and a half weeks of it back in May. I did it because my naturopath highly recommended it for detoxing heavy metals and pesticides, which I was found to have in me. I must say that when I was retested after each week of sauna detox, my metal and pesticide levels definitely did come down, so I know that can only be a good thing.
    I have not continued on with the sauna therapy, however, because lately I have just been feeling nauseated and ill a lot. When I'd come out of the sauna, I did have a hard time with my blood pressure and feeling faint. They do give you supplements before and after to help and to replace lost minerals through the sweating. I am actually that I did it, as getting the metals and pesticides out of me was a good thing. I probably could have benefited from one more week of it, but just couldn't do it. I don't think most people who do it have such a hard time (as other people who were there also had cancer & they did fine with it).

    I did have a few IV vitamin C infusions while I was there (as well as glutathione). I haven't continued it mainly due to the cost & my husband wasn't very supportive of me doing it. It's been a few months now & I'd like to go back and do some IV's. I have continued taking several supplements under the guidance of the naturopathic dr. there & I do believe they help. I am currently also now taking cesium chloride to help alkalinize the body at a cellular level. I had to reduce the original dosage given to me, however, because it was causing some neurological symptoms like buzzing lips and flashing lights in my vision field. I now take some, but less, & my body does seem more alkaline (I test it with alkaline strips- they can test the urine and saliva, but not the cells).
    I also take apricot kernals (you start out slowly and build up the amount over a few days).
    I take turmeric daily and I also take chlorella and spirulina, which both help my red blood cell counts now stay in the normal range even while on chemo (my oncologist is amazed at that). Recently in July, I went on a week long cruise- left my supplements at home and ate lots of rich foods and desserts & a week later when my CEA was tested, I discovered that it had gone way up (mid 300's). So, after that, I got back to my healthy eating and my supplements & within those 4 weeks my CEA dropped a whopping 80 points, which is huge for me! The next CEA draw in a few more weeks again will be more telling, to see if it drops even more or not. I'm sure hoping and praying so & I will be continuing the good eating and supplements.

    Definitely talk to the naturopath about various supplements that can help your immune system, blood counts, and the cancer itself, of course.

    Best wishes for it all-
    Lisa
  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
    #10
    We've used IV vitamin C amongst many therapeutic and nutritional components, both approved and alternative. Vitamin C critics often grossly overstate the medical proponents' claims while spuriously "testing" inadequate doses, modes and regimens that one shouldn't even claim for hayfever.

    My wife typically uses 60-90 grams of IV ascorbate (vit C) per day's infusion(s) for post surgical wound healing, infection control, 5FU-folate toxicity, allergies, reduction of histamine fed VEGF angiogenesis, general robustness (feels more energetic several hours later into next day), and as part of a chemotherapy regimen. Her chemo regimen (including 5FU, vit C, vit K2 as MK4) was directly lab tested against her fresh tumor cells with better kill results than any other chemo combination tested [actual 5FU chemo is UFT + leucovorin]. Yes, 60,000-90,000 mg of vit C per infusion. Since she only takes 8-10 grams (vs 12-100 grams, up to gastric or bowel tolerance) orally across the day, she typically gets 3-4 infusions per week (vs 1-2/wk medium term, a year later, with larger oral doses). 2-3 weeks following surgery or for 5FU toxicity, she took the ascorbate infusions up to every day.

    Higher cancer loads with high histamine have been known to require IV vitamin C over 200 grams per day to establish normal vitamin C residuals. Our alternative MD uses IV vit C for end stage cancer pain relief, like pancreatic cancer, as well as some additional walking around time and strength. I do not consider vitamin C "a cure for cancer". We do find it very useful.

    Our general plans revolve around:
    1. immunochemotherapies to prevent metastasis with preservation of WBC, RBC, platelets
    (immuno- includes approved, alternative, experimental applications and could include TCM)
    2. physical removal (surgery) or destruction (e.g. RFA) of isolated macroscopic lesions.

    We have a scheduled registered nurse from nearby and bulk IV supplies at home to keep this economical and convenient. I've heard of ex-military plugging themselves in. Skill with insertions and exact formulation determine vein availability long term. Sometimes she's used a hep lock (IV re-entry point) for frequent infusions every 12-36 hrs. Other supplements can be a must e.g. oral potassium citrate (salts) for potassium washout by high sodium ascorbate loads, or B complex (oral regimen with leucovorin, not folate, because of 5FU!) and a magnesium salt in the IV.

    She's greatly exceeded all doctors' expectations. Vitamin C has been a part of the many reasons why.
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331 Member
    #11
    lisa42 said:

    My experience
    Hi Yoga,

    Yes, I've done the sauna detox therapy. I did two and a half weeks of it back in May. I did it because my naturopath highly recommended it for detoxing heavy metals and pesticides, which I was found to have in me. I must say that when I was retested after each week of sauna detox, my metal and pesticide levels definitely did come down, so I know that can only be a good thing.
    I have not continued on with the sauna therapy, however, because lately I have just been feeling nauseated and ill a lot. When I'd come out of the sauna, I did have a hard time with my blood pressure and feeling faint. They do give you supplements before and after to help and to replace lost minerals through the sweating. I am actually that I did it, as getting the metals and pesticides out of me was a good thing. I probably could have benefited from one more week of it, but just couldn't do it. I don't think most people who do it have such a hard time (as other people who were there also had cancer & they did fine with it).

    I did have a few IV vitamin C infusions while I was there (as well as glutathione). I haven't continued it mainly due to the cost & my husband wasn't very supportive of me doing it. It's been a few months now & I'd like to go back and do some IV's. I have continued taking several supplements under the guidance of the naturopathic dr. there & I do believe they help. I am currently also now taking cesium chloride to help alkalinize the body at a cellular level. I had to reduce the original dosage given to me, however, because it was causing some neurological symptoms like buzzing lips and flashing lights in my vision field. I now take some, but less, & my body does seem more alkaline (I test it with alkaline strips- they can test the urine and saliva, but not the cells).
    I also take apricot kernals (you start out slowly and build up the amount over a few days).
    I take turmeric daily and I also take chlorella and spirulina, which both help my red blood cell counts now stay in the normal range even while on chemo (my oncologist is amazed at that). Recently in July, I went on a week long cruise- left my supplements at home and ate lots of rich foods and desserts & a week later when my CEA was tested, I discovered that it had gone way up (mid 300's). So, after that, I got back to my healthy eating and my supplements & within those 4 weeks my CEA dropped a whopping 80 points, which is huge for me! The next CEA draw in a few more weeks again will be more telling, to see if it drops even more or not. I'm sure hoping and praying so & I will be continuing the good eating and supplements.

    Definitely talk to the naturopath about various supplements that can help your immune system, blood counts, and the cancer itself, of course.

    Best wishes for it all-
    Lisa

    What about vitamin D ?
    Many serious studies agree it works against Colon cancer, I'm talking about serious clinical studies published recently in prestigious magazines!
    Ask your nat.Doc.!

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