onc doctors bedside manner

Pamela123
Pamela123 Member Posts: 12
edited May 2011 in Colorectal Cancer #1
Has anyone come across a onc doctor that has a poor bedside manner, I just met one that
came in the room and the first thing he said was your stage 2 colon cancer had spread to a stage four colon cancer. They foumd a spot on your bowel during surgery, he said that you have stage 4 and have 20% chance to live for 6 months. Since you had the surgery you will have a better pronocis since and they removed the cancer We will know more after we get the path report. We could probably to chemo and walked out. I would have chased him if i could have gotton out of bed.


Do people jump from 2 to 4. without lumphnodes?ks I am so upset I could scream, this also was at 5:00 in morning after surgery,sill drugged.


Thanks for your thoughts!!

Comments

  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625 Member
    #2
    Grrrr!
    Hi Pamela,

    I'm sorry you experienced a doctor with such a lousy, insensitive bedside manner. I want to go smack him for you! It's really angering for me to realize that so many doctors just throw those statistics out to their patients and don't give them hope. I've been fortunate to never have dealt with a doctor like that. I'm stage IV (have been for 3 yrs, 9 months now), and my onc (three oncs I've dealt with, actually) have never done that to me. So... don't listen to it!! I'm still here almost four years after my initial colorectal cancer diagnosis, in which I was stage IV right at diagnosis- don't know how long I actually had cancer before then or how long I was already stage IV before even knowing anything. Several folks on this board have been stage IV for years longer than that even. Nanab was stage IV with mets to her liver and is now NED (no evidence of disease) and I know Scouty was also stage IV w/ mets to liver (maybe lungs too, I don't remember for sure), but has been cancer free for at least 5 years now, maybe it was even 7 years. So, that's why I want to smack your doctor for you! They should give patients the facts, but spare the lousy statistics! My onc says he doesn't tell statistics or prognosis unless the patient directly asks him & even then he also tells them "but all patients are different- some do better than others & only God knows what will happen to each individual & we will do all we can".

    On your other question about can someone jump from a stage II to a stage IV. I don't think it's that common, but I know it's possible because I am an example of that. I said I was stage IV at diagnosis, but at first they thought I was a stage II. That's because when they did the ultrasound colonoscopy, no lymph nodes showed up at all as being involved. When they did my CT scan a few days later as "routine" (I was told they weren't expecting to see anything anywhere, but always did it just to be sure), all the doctors were surprised to see that I had "innumerable" lung nodules and 12 visible tumors in my liver. In fact, no lymph nodes ever showed up in me as being involved until a year and a half after my diagnosis, when one started lighting up on the PET scan in my lungs. I was told that sometimes in colorectal cancer, the cancer can metastasize/spread straight through the blood, bypassing the lymphatic system. Makes me think that it's probably more common than we think, since nothing shows up or lights up in the blood stream. So maybe that's what happened in your case. I'm sorry to hear it, but I would seriously recommend finding another doctor, if that doctor is your regular oncologist. Find someone else not related to that office- hopefully someone that will give you hope!

    I will be thinking of you- please keep in touch!

    Hugs,
    Lisa
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
    #3
    Pam -

    Re:
    "this also was at 5:00 in morning after surgery,sill drugged."

    Before you burn bridges......

    I could tell you stories about what I thought I heard and saw
    while still under the lingering influence of anesthetics and pain killers,
    but you'd probably just laugh.

    Wait awhile, let the drugs wear down... It took me a few months
    (believe it or not), before I was straight enough to realize that
    my neighbor was not one of the nurses that were trying to kill me,
    and my wife was not part of the conspiracy. (but if it happens again,
    I'm getting a divorce)

    Now don't go feeling insulted, I didn't feel compelled to go
    through the trouble to type this out just to be a pain in your
    tail-pipe; I felt the need to let you know, that not everything you
    see and hear while drugs are doing what they're doing to you,
    is anything close to real.

    That aside? I have had two friends die within a few weeks of the
    other. Both had stage one colon cancer, and both were told about
    a year or so later, that they were stage four and only had months
    to live. One did chemo, radiation, etc, The other went to a local
    herbalist who compounded "tinctures" and other substances for him.

    Both made it known, that they couldn't understand how or why,
    they got worse with stage one, and I was still healthy with
    what I thought was a stage 3C (I found out recently I had been
    a 4 all along).

    I don't know "why", I only know that they both said prayers,
    they both had great happy feelings, both had friends around
    and in a friendly atmosphere. They both ate well; neither smoked,
    and they only drank socially on occasions.

    Me? None of the above (please pass the gravy and white sugar).

    Cancer stinks. The damage from cancer isn't limited to the
    cancer itself, but extends to all the irreversible damage to our
    body from surgical procedures, radiation and chemotherapy.

    Cancer changes our life, and no matter how much we tell our
    friends and loved ones that we don't even think about it.. We do.

    To go from stage two to stage four is nothing unusual; cancer
    is funny that way. Single cancer cells, and/or small clusters of
    cancer cells aren't easily detected. So getting a report of
    "No Evidence of Disease" really means very little in the scheme
    of things. It only means that nothing has been detected using the
    procedures at hand.

    The first step in the fight against cancer, is accepting the real
    facts about cancer; ignoring the facts and statistics only lulls
    one into complacency.

    We can't afford to sit idle and do nothing, but we shouldn't
    be in a rush to try things, either. Time should be spent weighing
    all the options, and even all the alternatives. We don't want to
    take medicines, alternatives, or get procedures, that will end
    up leaving us in a permanent sorry state, even if it cures the cancer.

    So take your time, and look into all the details of any medication
    or alternative that you might be considering.....

    And do not put so much weight into the "stage" of the cancer;
    don't allow yourself to be lulled into idle complacency.

    Be well,

    John
  • tootsie1
    tootsie1 Member Posts: 5,044 Member
    #4
    Oh, dear
    I'm sorry you got news like that in such a rough way.

    *hugs*
    Gail
  • abrub
    abrub Member Posts: 2,174 Member
    #5
    I've had that when I wasn't drugged
    Tho I do agree with John, that drugs may have re-created the event to some extent.

    However, when I was going for consults to pick an onc for my very rare cancer (appendix), one of the MSK drs I met with (fortunately the second one; the first had been very encouraging) wouldn't reveiw my chart, asked me why I was taking meds that I had never taken in my life, and then turned to me and stated: "You have garden-variety Stage 4 colon cancer, median life expectancy 2 years. However, with your unusual presentation, I can probably get you 2-5." (Btw, no lymph node involvement.)

    He then had the nerve to write in his report that "patient showed undue distress, even when given encouraging information" [about "getting" 3-5 years instead of 2, when 3 weeks earlier, I didn't even know I had cancer.]

    He ignored everything I said in the consult, and didn't review the reports from my initial diagnosis; just spouted in his "infinite wisdom".

    I chose the OTHER MSK dr, and at 4 years out, am doing great, with an excellent long-term prognosis.

    Alice
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
    #6
    abrub said:

    I've had that when I wasn't drugged
    Tho I do agree with John, that drugs may have re-created the event to some extent.

    However, when I was going for consults to pick an onc for my very rare cancer (appendix), one of the MSK drs I met with (fortunately the second one; the first had been very encouraging) wouldn't reveiw my chart, asked me why I was taking meds that I had never taken in my life, and then turned to me and stated: "You have garden-variety Stage 4 colon cancer, median life expectancy 2 years. However, with your unusual presentation, I can probably get you 2-5." (Btw, no lymph node involvement.)

    He then had the nerve to write in his report that "patient showed undue distress, even when given encouraging information" [about "getting" 3-5 years instead of 2, when 3 weeks earlier, I didn't even know I had cancer.]

    He ignored everything I said in the consult, and didn't review the reports from my initial diagnosis; just spouted in his "infinite wisdom".

    I chose the OTHER MSK dr, and at 4 years out, am doing great, with an excellent long-term prognosis.

    Alice

    Alice -
    There are probably more thoughtless docs than ones that
    actually think before speaking!

    In 2006, and my first ever visit to the ER, they took scans
    and assigned me a surgeon.

    On the way back to the room after the initial scan, the surgeon
    stopped my gurney in the middle of a crowded hallway, and
    told me in a voice loud enough to be heard above the ambient
    noise: YOU HAVE COLON CANCER AND IT'S GOING
    TO KILL IF I DON'T OPERATE RIGHT NOW - YOU HAVE
    PAPERS TO SIGN.

    People, just visitors to other patients, were staring at me in horror.

    Almost as fast as I was returned to my room, I was brought back
    down for another ct scan. The said that they were trying to determine
    the exact location of the tumor.

    And again on the way back to my room, the same surgeon stopped
    us in the hallway (and again in front of a hallway full of people), told
    me that I had cancer in both small and large intestines, and he would
    bring papers for me to sign; I needed to be operated on, immediately.

    When he returned, I told him that he should operate in the
    operating room using a scalpel, not in a hallway using words.

    He took himself off my case. He was the head of the department.

    They assigned me another surgeon, but they were now telling me
    that they no longer had an OR for the new surgeons to use.

    Three days later, I was transported to a different hospital.
    (The cancer tumor was in my large intestine, btw)

    So yeah.... there are some really stupid physicians out there.

    Real quick:
    My last visit to the ER was in May for dehydration. The ER Physician
    initially refused to provide hydration, telling me that I was not
    dehydrated - instead, he said, I was suffering from a very bad
    heart condition that was causing my kidneys to shut down,
    making it appear that I was dehydrated.

    Say what? Idiot! My dehydrated state was causing a kidney
    malfunction, and my heart to race, not the other way around.

    I refused all heart meds, and demanded IV hydration, or to be
    released if he refuses to provide that. I told him that I would
    go home, and his attorney can tell my widow's attorney why
    he felt I wasn't dehydrated.

    After two hours of IV hydration, my heart returned to normal.

    I never heard another word from him, and I now have a
    PICC line and home hydration.

    It's truly amazing how much incompetence and lack of concern
    there is in a profession designed to save lives.

    Best wishes for great health!

    John

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