Suggestions for Brendon's nightly vomitting
Brendon finished chemo (5FU) a week ago Friday. He finished radiation (28 treatments) last Wednesday (almost a week ago). He has a feeding tube that pumps 2100 calories into him at night (7 cans) at a rate of 160. He wakes up in the middle of the night, every night, and out comes olive green vomit. (I'm sorry this isn't the picture perfect story, just real life) Typically it's around 4:30 in the morning. Last night, it was about 2:00 am. He also had light pink to medium pink blood in it. At 7:00 this morning, he threw up again. This time just slime and a lil more blood. I called the dr. He went in and got some iv fluids and they said the blood was nothing to worry about since there wasn't a lot and it wasn't bright red. They said it was blood vessels just rupturing from the vomitting.
Brendon has not eaten anything in days. Yesterday, he had one bite of jello (gagged and threw it up) and 1 tablespoon of potato soup (gagged and threw it up). He says it hurts to eat. But says that he is not nauscious ever. Just hits him all of a sudden.
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My first theory I tried on Sunday night. I thought perhaps using those wedges that everyone talks about would possibly work. So, I went out at 9:30 p.m. to get one...couldn't remember where people said they got them (DanaM - - this is why I called you so late!)...Anyway, I did find them at Bed Bath and Beyond. However, that was obviously not the issue.
My 2nd theory was too much tube feeding. So, I had Brendon cut the cans down to 4 (1200 calories)... Little did I know, but he didn't decrease the speed.
My 3rd theory (still part of my 2nd theory)
I think the dietician is crazy. I am not sure why she thinks Brendon needs 2100 calories every night. All this does, is make him have NO appetite during the day. He won't try to eat if he gags on anything, because really, he isn't even hungry. I also think that the reason Brendon gets sick every night is because the pump is at too fast of rate and after so long, his intestines cant handle it and he gets sick. I think the reason it hurts to try to eat anything during the day is because the throwing up in the middle of the night has irritated his esophagus. And now he's scared to eat anything.
We lowered the pump down to 140 tonight and I am only going to do 6 cans (1800 calories). I know that if he gets sick tonight he will say my theory was wrong and will want to go back up to 7 cans because now he has lost 25 lbs. He's scared to lose more. He is sooo tired of me asking him if he wants something to eat or how much he weighs but I am scared too. I'm scared he is becoming too dependent on the feeding tube and isn't trying to eat anything at all. I know he's getting his vitamins, nutrients, and stuff...but doesn't he need some good ole fat?!?! (I highly doubt they put that in those lil white cans).
I keep praying that he continues to heal more each and every day from the treatments. I know it hasn't been even a week since his last radiation, but I am so scared. I watched my dad go from 240 lbs down to 130 lbs from cancer and it terrifies me. Brendon can't take much more of me pushing him and I can't take much more of not having him eat.
Any suggestions?
Comments
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I cannot run my pump over
I cannot run my pump over 120. Sometimes I even turn it down to 100. Otherwise, I get very hot and then sick to my stomach. I still try to get the same number of cans. You may have to hook him up earlier.
I would be concerned about the various colors, however.
Call your doctor.
Prayes,
David0 -
You need to get a formula
You need to get a formula with higher calories so you can do fewer cans. There are also lactose-free formulas.0 -
Still throwing up (13 days since radiation)
Hi,
Sorry to hear about yet another trouble. I do not have any suggestion on what to do, but wanted to let you know that we are going through this too. Tom is still throwing up although it's been 13 days since the last radiation. We would have a day or two of no vomiting, but then suddenly he would run to the bathroom again. There is no definite trigger to it: it could be some "new" food that he might try, or some smell, or just out of the blue. The doctors seem to be not concerned, since his stomach lining has been messed up by the radiation and does not take food easily. They say it is a typical reaction and it would gradually go away. I am very worried of course, because unlike Brendon, Tom is not on a tube and he is not even getting his minimum calories some days.
But as I said, it is getting better every day. Although he still has occasional puke days, he is starting to eat a bit more every day and can tolerate more types of food.0 -
sounds too much too fastArchTB said:Still throwing up (13 days since radiation)
Hi,
Sorry to hear about yet another trouble. I do not have any suggestion on what to do, but wanted to let you know that we are going through this too. Tom is still throwing up although it's been 13 days since the last radiation. We would have a day or two of no vomiting, but then suddenly he would run to the bathroom again. There is no definite trigger to it: it could be some "new" food that he might try, or some smell, or just out of the blue. The doctors seem to be not concerned, since his stomach lining has been messed up by the radiation and does not take food easily. They say it is a typical reaction and it would gradually go away. I am very worried of course, because unlike Brendon, Tom is not on a tube and he is not even getting his minimum calories some days.
But as I said, it is getting better every day. Although he still has occasional puke days, he is starting to eat a bit more every day and can tolerate more types of food.
Hi,
I am no expert but I had a j tube for 3months post surgery and I just feel like that is way too much and way too fast. You are supposed to build up and I was not even offered that speed, it can make you sick. I would definitely talk to someone else other than the dietician. This just doesn't sound right. As someone mentioned there are other supplements that are high calorie. It can cause dumping too. Wish he could eat something. Hope things get better and you find a solution. take care,
Donna700 -
I agree with Donna70, thatDonna70 said:sounds too much too fast
Hi,
I am no expert but I had a j tube for 3months post surgery and I just feel like that is way too much and way too fast. You are supposed to build up and I was not even offered that speed, it can make you sick. I would definitely talk to someone else other than the dietician. This just doesn't sound right. As someone mentioned there are other supplements that are high calorie. It can cause dumping too. Wish he could eat something. Hope things get better and you find a solution. take care,
Donna70
I agree with Donna70, that does sound like too much too fast. Post-surgery I had my pump set to 100. Any more than that and I didn’t feel well.
Good luck,
Joel0 -
so far so good...
Night number two with the pump set at 140 and Brendon didn't get sick!! So very thankful!
Last night he did try eating some soup... Said it tasted so good that he ate too fast..and then yet again, ended up getting sick. But I was proud of him for trying!!
He also started rehab yesterday to regain some muscles..he said it went well and he was good and worn out afterwards.
Thank you everyone for all of your thoughts and suggestions! I told him that ya all said to TURN THE PUMP DOWN!!! :-)
Those of you that suggested different tube formula... We tried a higher calorie product to start with, but it made Brendon break out in a rash...so we had to switch and we are now on the next highest calorie they had....0 -
I wish you well with theSusie_Brendon said:so far so good...
Night number two with the pump set at 140 and Brendon didn't get sick!! So very thankful!
Last night he did try eating some soup... Said it tasted so good that he ate too fast..and then yet again, ended up getting sick. But I was proud of him for trying!!
He also started rehab yesterday to regain some muscles..he said it went well and he was good and worn out afterwards.
Thank you everyone for all of your thoughts and suggestions! I told him that ya all said to TURN THE PUMP DOWN!!! :-)
Those of you that suggested different tube formula... We tried a higher calorie product to start with, but it made Brendon break out in a rash...so we had to switch and we are now on the next highest calorie they had....
I wish you well with the eating endeavor. It does getbetter, but don't expect it to happen overnight. I will be at 5 years this December (esophagectomy Dec. 2006). I still have to be really careful beacuse of nausea. I understand from talking to others that I seem to be more extreme.
I'm curious, what formula are you using right now?
Best wishes,
David0 -
Nauseadwhite0002 said:I wish you well with the
I wish you well with the eating endeavor. It does getbetter, but don't expect it to happen overnight. I will be at 5 years this December (esophagectomy Dec. 2006). I still have to be really careful beacuse of nausea. I understand from talking to others that I seem to be more extreme.
I'm curious, what formula are you using right now?
Best wishes,
David
David, I am so glad to read this. I'm NOT glad that you suffer nausea, but I, too, suffer from nausea if I eat the wrong thing or overeat. I'm only 14 months out of surgery, but it's nice to know I'm not so "strange". Again, thanks for sharing this. It makes me feel more normal, I guess!0 -
Hi Daviddwhite0002 said:I wish you well with the
I wish you well with the eating endeavor. It does getbetter, but don't expect it to happen overnight. I will be at 5 years this December (esophagectomy Dec. 2006). I still have to be really careful beacuse of nausea. I understand from talking to others that I seem to be more extreme.
I'm curious, what formula are you using right now?
Best wishes,
David
Brendon is on Iso Source High Nutrition formula. The first one he was on was Iso Source somthing else... haha.
Just curious, did you have the Ivor Lewis surgery back in '06? What stage were you?
Sorry to hear that the nausea is still there for you at times. However, I'm sure after almost 5 years, you know what will affect you the worst.
Thanks for the info.
Susie0 -
Hello
Hubby had some bleeding after rad also. Its scary when it happens.
Your rate does seem high. Steve usually runs around 75. You are getting alot of calories in a short amount of time. Just wondering why it all has to go in at night? Can he feed during the day also? We have used several different formulas. I mix them to get the calories I want. You can also add to the formula to add calories.
Jevity 1.5 has 375 a can.
Carnation VHC has 560 a can.
Less volume that way. Another thing we have done is push formula with a syringe. Anything you can liquify can go in the tube. If hubby doesnt feel like eating during the day, he will run some formula.
I know everyone does thing different, but just thought I would share some things we have tried.
Take care
Nancy0 -
Brendon
Hello Susie
Sorry to hear Brendon is having such a hard battle with vomiting. I do agree with you and your thoughts.
He is getting too much liquid, too fast through his feeding tube. His stomach can not handle all of this. Plus...the tumor is in his esophagus, that is blocking the way. Once his surgery is performed, the tumor will be removed. But then....a new chapter will begin. Same idea as now though. Small meals, frequently throughout the day. His new stomach will only hold so much. Cross that bridge when you get to it! Thanks for the update, hope things get better.
Tina in Va0 -
It also is about the rateTina Blondek said:Brendon
Hello Susie
Sorry to hear Brendon is having such a hard battle with vomiting. I do agree with you and your thoughts.
He is getting too much liquid, too fast through his feeding tube. His stomach can not handle all of this. Plus...the tumor is in his esophagus, that is blocking the way. Once his surgery is performed, the tumor will be removed. But then....a new chapter will begin. Same idea as now though. Small meals, frequently throughout the day. His new stomach will only hold so much. Cross that bridge when you get to it! Thanks for the update, hope things get better.
Tina in Va
It also is about the rate "food" hits the intestines. Everything changes after surgery. Your body digests things differently. I highly recommend the VHC by Carnation. I still rely on 3 cans a night, which gives me 1860 calories a night. I then can eat as much or little throughout the day and I do NOT GET sick!
Night rate should be only as high as it is comfortable. If he wakes up sick or hot, turn it down.
-David0 -
Feeding tube?dwhite0002 said:It also is about the rate
It also is about the rate "food" hits the intestines. Everything changes after surgery. Your body digests things differently. I highly recommend the VHC by Carnation. I still rely on 3 cans a night, which gives me 1860 calories a night. I then can eat as much or little throughout the day and I do NOT GET sick!
Night rate should be only as high as it is comfortable. If he wakes up sick or hot, turn it down.
-David
You still have your feeding tube in after 5 years?? I'm confused??0 -
feeding tube speed
Hi Susie,
Jim always had his speed at 115 and broke up the feeding during the day and at night. He never vomited from just the tube feeding. He really didn't want food until he was out about two weeks after chemo. That chemo stays in your system, so have him stay on his nausea meds 24/7. I am sorry he is going through this. I think this is the toughest stage; Jim was hospitalized he was so ill. Hang in there!
Linda0 -
Very stubborn Hubby!linda1120 said:feeding tube speed
Hi Susie,
Jim always had his speed at 115 and broke up the feeding during the day and at night. He never vomited from just the tube feeding. He really didn't want food until he was out about two weeks after chemo. That chemo stays in your system, so have him stay on his nausea meds 24/7. I am sorry he is going through this. I think this is the toughest stage; Jim was hospitalized he was so ill. Hang in there!
Linda
Hi Linda,
I have to laugh when people tell me again and again to make sure Brendon stays on his nausea med 24/7... I barely could get him to stay on them for 8 hours!!! Brendon is pretty stubborn and says he doesn't feel "sick" so he doesn't need the nausea meds. Ahh, how I love him! I think we are on the downhill slide now... He actually ate some pasta and ice-cream today....like you said....2 weeks after his chemo ended!!! He did get sick again last night, but not too terribly bad. I suggested to him to turn the pump down another 10mL...so we will see... (kind of hard to monitor when I'm not there all the time!) Thank you for your input...if nothing else, it puts my mind at ease that the end is getting closer...and soon he will be able to eat more.
Hugs,
Susie0 -
I am an unusual case. I haveSusie_Brendon said:Feeding tube?
You still have your feeding tube in after 5 years?? I'm confused??
I am an unusual case. I have had extreme difficulties with weight. I have never been able to consistently consume enough calories because of nasea. I end up eating very small meals to avoid the problem. I have had j-tubes on and off. Every time I try to go without it, I end up losing a lot of weight over time. This past summer I gave it a try, once again. By October I weighed 137 lbs...I am 6'4''
So...for me, I function better with the j-tube. I take 3 cans a night, then I eat as much or little as I want during the day. I am floating around 160-165 lbs right now. I want to get up to 170-175.
Some days/meals I eat fairly well, but other times I just don;t feel like it. I take medications to help (which do help). I have seen multiple doctors about this issue and we have agreed that for ME, this is the best solution.
I have survived the cancer, and with the j-tube I actually feel energetic during the day.
I am a high school choral director. This past fall I literally taught, then went home and slept. Now, I actually have enough energy to DO things.
None of this means Brendon will be teh same. I am just telling MY experience. Hopefully something will be helpful. Brendon and I share the fact that we are both youner than most people who go through EC.
Hope some of this helps...I will keep you both in prayers. Do not get discouraged.
-David0 -
Thanks David!dwhite0002 said:I am an unusual case. I have
I am an unusual case. I have had extreme difficulties with weight. I have never been able to consistently consume enough calories because of nasea. I end up eating very small meals to avoid the problem. I have had j-tubes on and off. Every time I try to go without it, I end up losing a lot of weight over time. This past summer I gave it a try, once again. By October I weighed 137 lbs...I am 6'4''
So...for me, I function better with the j-tube. I take 3 cans a night, then I eat as much or little as I want during the day. I am floating around 160-165 lbs right now. I want to get up to 170-175.
Some days/meals I eat fairly well, but other times I just don;t feel like it. I take medications to help (which do help). I have seen multiple doctors about this issue and we have agreed that for ME, this is the best solution.
I have survived the cancer, and with the j-tube I actually feel energetic during the day.
I am a high school choral director. This past fall I literally taught, then went home and slept. Now, I actually have enough energy to DO things.
None of this means Brendon will be teh same. I am just telling MY experience. Hopefully something will be helpful. Brendon and I share the fact that we are both youner than most people who go through EC.
Hope some of this helps...I will keep you both in prayers. Do not get discouraged.
-David
Hi - Wow, after reading this, I do agree...the J-tube is the right choice for you. Thanks for explaining it all to me...it makes much more sense now. Heck even at 170 you are still going to be a bean-pole! I weigh about what you weigh now and I'm only 5'9"...not 6'4". :-)
I'm glad that you are getting some energy back. I bet that makes you feel so much better!
Thanks for sharing a little more about yourself. It's always nice to know something personal about someone.
Enjoy your weekend!
Susie0
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