For those doing or thinking of doing intravenous Vitamin C Tx:

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Comments

  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
    tanstaafl said:

    FDA's Uncle Sham, the predatorial Monopoly Man
    The FDA has been running around attacking cheap, well known foods and generic drugs that have been available for generations for several years now, allowing them back only under expensive, highly restricted competition (prescriptions, exclusive pre-approved brands), if at all. This includes some of the safest versions of oral vitamins, as well as parenteral nutrients (e.g. C, magnesium, B1, B complex), and dried organ stuffs (pancrelipase, thyroid) that are required foods for life itself for some.

    The US price of IV vitamin C from McGuff has doubled after shutdown of McGuff's manufacturing, and many items formerly available directly, are now through doctors only. Unfortunately this appears to be only round one with IV vitamin C, if prior experience with the earlier FDA food attacks repeats.

    Pete, FDA versions often destroy the required qualities
    Pete, often important or even defining, specific qualities deteriorate under FDA "guidance".

    One thyroid compound, the world recognized brand - quality standard for a century, was abstractly re-formulated for "time release", presumably for the highest dose customers who might take it 2-3 times per day, if it mattered. The new FDA approved version appalled many regular users, many of whom promptly moved to unadulterated foreign suppliers, or suffered since the original shut down of suppliers in 2009.

    Parental vitamin B users have been fighting for decades for more pure, "alternative" vitamin B preparations to avoid neuropathy and/or allergy provoking sulfite preservatives in the regulated B versions. Where a major use of B compounds is for neuropathies and neuritis effects. Which means pain and loss of feeling and function for many - back to their past, to a wheelchair and worse.
  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    tanstaafl said:

    Pete, FDA versions often destroy the required qualities
    Pete, often important or even defining, specific qualities deteriorate under FDA "guidance".

    One thyroid compound, the world recognized brand - quality standard for a century, was abstractly re-formulated for "time release", presumably for the highest dose customers who might take it 2-3 times per day, if it mattered. The new FDA approved version appalled many regular users, many of whom promptly moved to unadulterated foreign suppliers, or suffered since the original shut down of suppliers in 2009.

    Parental vitamin B users have been fighting for decades for more pure, "alternative" vitamin B preparations to avoid neuropathy and/or allergy provoking sulfite preservatives in the regulated B versions. Where a major use of B compounds is for neuropathies and neuritis effects. Which means pain and loss of feeling and function for many - back to their past, to a wheelchair and worse.

    John(and all others of course) what is really disturbing about
    the FDA To me, at least) is its strong affiliation with those spreading GMOs on an unsuspecting world. i think it was Dr Mercola's site (even tho he sells stuff)that I recently read about this connection (mercola.com)...Years ago i read a book about the difficulty concerned scientists had persuadung the FDA to act against tobacco companies and their falsified testimony....unfortunately, its the only game in the US when it comes to all the stuff it has authority over....
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    coloCan said:

    John(and all others of course) what is really disturbing about
    the FDA To me, at least) is its strong affiliation with those spreading GMOs on an unsuspecting world. i think it was Dr Mercola's site (even tho he sells stuff)that I recently read about this connection (mercola.com)...Years ago i read a book about the difficulty concerned scientists had persuadung the FDA to act against tobacco companies and their falsified testimony....unfortunately, its the only game in the US when it comes to all the stuff it has authority over....

    fda should stick to its main game
    hi blake, tans, steve

    the paper is to dam complex guys. I hope its not baffelling us with bullchit.

    as a group we cannot change the world even if we could get consesus on the fda stuff. but to see the letter and their direction is eye popping stuff.

    so, lets just look after each other read, listen, share what we know and regrettably give comfort when needed.

    it one mean sucker paper, that certainly separates the men from the boys. I will print it out and decode over the next six months and come back to this post with the english version.

    even in aussie we are not safe, because after a drug is regitered and patented in the us I think it applies here and possibly other countries with reprical patent laws. so some greedy drug company patent iv aa and now most of the world has to pay more. potentially the higher priced legitamite frd approved drug will create a secondary grey illegal market that more difficult to monitor. The fda will not achieve what it wants to in the end.
    these are my suspicions.

    all the best to us all,

    Pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    coloCan said:

    Pete: I'm a thin believer in walking, making it a point to do
    several miles a day if I can and I'm getting back into my exercise, even if its takes all day, five,ten minutes here, ten minutes there, as I can no longer do much more than 15 minutes if I go with what is now for me "heavy".....At times it was taking me three days to do what I use to do in my 40 minute sessions.....I often wonder what the hell is this sixty year old doing lifting weights....But then I always regret not doing more than I did!!!!!

    just lift mate
    don't over or under do it, I think your body will love you for it.

    I have felf some dumbbells next to the front door, as I enter or leave I do a set of 10 on each arm. its not much but its a start.

    Steve, I think regrets are for people without cancer, i don't have time or energy for regrets , just lessons.

    Pete
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member

    fda should stick to its main game
    hi blake, tans, steve

    the paper is to dam complex guys. I hope its not baffelling us with bullchit.

    as a group we cannot change the world even if we could get consesus on the fda stuff. but to see the letter and their direction is eye popping stuff.

    so, lets just look after each other read, listen, share what we know and regrettably give comfort when needed.

    it one mean sucker paper, that certainly separates the men from the boys. I will print it out and decode over the next six months and come back to this post with the english version.

    even in aussie we are not safe, because after a drug is regitered and patented in the us I think it applies here and possibly other countries with reprical patent laws. so some greedy drug company patent iv aa and now most of the world has to pay more. potentially the higher priced legitamite frd approved drug will create a secondary grey illegal market that more difficult to monitor. The fda will not achieve what it wants to in the end.
    these are my suspicions.

    all the best to us all,

    Pete

    "some greedy drug company..."
    From the Med News article:


    Scientists at the Riordan Clinic were the first to publish, and patent, that intravenous, but not oral vitamin C, can achieve significant concentration in the blood in order to selectively kill tumor cells.

    Who is the Riordan Clinic?

    http://www.riordanclinic.org/

    We are a not-for-profit 
    501(c)(3) corporation specializing in nutrition-based health services. Based in Wichita, KS, for 35 years, our treatment philosophy helps to identify the underlying causes of your illness.

    A big greedy Alt medicine clinic.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    Buckwirth said:

    What may have set FDA on this track
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2898816/

    Very little jargon and an interesting read. I only think that this alerted the FDA because it was published in Pubmed and the timeline would fit.

    thanks blake
    very good read
    Pete
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member

    this is too important to let slide
    Hi Blake,

    Sorry a little drama, yes. I hope your correct that I don't have metastatasis yet. I don't know have not had a scan for 6 months, onc would not give me until chemo finsihed. I will find out soon, its just common for stageIII to have a met popup and you get a ticket for another roller coaster ride.

    At this stage of my illness I feel I have the greatest opportunity to take effective action with alternative supports. My TCM onc said this as well. When its spread its a whole different ball game, as we all so sadly know.

    Your reply made me feel frustrated, the paper covered so many areas benefical to us all, not just sepsis. I hope to some analysis from others here that verified my hope for end of life care. we have some friends who could benefit right now I feel.

    I did expect you to be quiet for a while, this paper is one heavy duty sucker, I felt its such a complex paper that you need a degree in cell biology and medicine to fully comprehend it, to be honest I tried and failed. I thought it would be right down your scientific ally and some other board members.

    I am still looking for other opinion's.

    I don't agree with your comments and they may stop others from reading the paper.
    March 28, 2011 - 3:18pm
    "Yours is on the treatment of Sepsis" no its about IV ascorbic acid and how it may produce better health outcomes.
    "In other words, a rampant infection in patients with advanced disease." no, its also about quality of life at end of life, its about so much more.
    "Interesting, but I don't think this is what Steve was posting." wrong this is the source of the news.
    "Btw, I am a fast reader, with great comprehension." Almost always and I enjoy and learn alot from you but not on this occaision and this paper is important in itself and what it represents.
    "Takes more than this to keep me quiet. " I know I was wrong LOL, but I this paper would get anyone quiet except I could hear the gears in my brain grinding in protest.

    I call it informed positive thinking now. We share this journey together with so much sorrow and joy. That the life we have.

    Thanks for replying, the reading the paper and your comment "this may be a standard for end of life treatment".

    hugs,

    Pete

    Originally sent as a PM
    Abstract on Pubmed:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18544557

    Intravenous ascorbic acid to prevent and treat cancer-associated sepsis?

    ABSTRACT: The history of ascorbic acid (AA) and cancer has been marked with controversy. Clinical studies evaluating AA in cancer outcome continue to the present day. However, the wealth of data suggesting that AA may be highly beneficial in addressing cancer-associated inflammation, particularly progression to systemic inflammatory response syndrome (SIRS) and multi organ failure (MOF), has been largely overlooked. Patients with advanced cancer are generally deficient in AA. Once these patients develop septic symptoms, a further decrease in ascorbic acid levels occurs. Given the known role of ascorbate in: a) maintaining endothelial and suppression of inflammatory markers; b) protection from sepsis in animal models; and c) direct antineoplastic effects, we propose the use of ascorbate as an adjuvant to existing modalities in the treatment and prevention of cancer-associated sepsis.


    Here is how it was reported at Medical News Today:

    Peer Reviewed Publication Supporting Intravenous Vitamin C For Cancer Patients

    The rationale is provided that intravenous, but not oral, vitamin C may be capable of addressing issues in cancer patients such as wasting (cachexia), immune suppression, and improving quality of life. Citing 246 references, the paper synthesized existing knowledge regarding the use of intravenous vitamin C for numerous medical conditions and seeks re-evaluation of the place of intravenous vitamin C in the context of conventional oncology practice.

    Based on the title (which was all we had) I was expecting something more like this:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18544557
    Phase I clinical trial of i.v. ascorbic acid in advanced malignancy.

    I think the issue is that Medical News Today reported on Riordan's press release, not on the paper itself, so title and purpose were less than clear in the article.


    Now, to your comments on my comments:

    "I don't agree with your comments and they may stop others from reading the paper."

    The length and complexity will keep them from reading it, which is why Steve was pointing you to abstracts.

    "March 28, 2011 - 3:18pm
    "Yours is on the treatment of Sepsis" no its about IV ascorbic acid and how it may produce better health outcomes."

    Title of the paper:

    Intravenous ascorbic acid to prevent and treat cancer-associated sepsis.

    Based on the title, and the title only, I expected something different from the Medpage article, which I expressed above.

    ""In other words, a rampant infection in patients with advanced disease." no, its also about quality of life at end of life, its about so much more."

    I expect it to be understood that "advanced disease" is a euphemism for end of life, and anything that reduces suffering at EOL is also about quality of life.  We said the same thing.  Based on your response it may be that I should have taken more time with my response.

    ""Interesting, but I don't think this is what Steve was posting." wrong this is the source of the news."

    Which I pointed out in a later post, which preceded this one.  Not sure why you let this push your buttons.  I was pretty quick to pull that one back.

    ""Btw, I am a fast reader, with great comprehension." Almost always and I enjoy and learn alot from you but not on this occaision and this paper is important in itself and what it represents."

    Not questioning the importance of the paper, but it was about sepsis and advanced disease.  Everything else you mention is an argument for further study and potential government approval.  Think of it as the answer to this question:  why should we invest more dollars in study/treatment for a group that will die anyway, and where pain can be managed with opiates?

    ""Takes more than this to keep me quiet." I know I was wrong LOL, but I this paper would get anyone quiet except I could hear the gears in my brain grinding in protest."

    Rather than laying into me, you could summarize the paper and quote the portions you find important, particularly when what you are posting is this complex.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    Buckwirth said:

    "some greedy drug company..."
    From the Med News article:


    Scientists at the Riordan Clinic were the first to publish, and patent, that intravenous, but not oral vitamin C, can achieve significant concentration in the blood in order to selectively kill tumor cells.

    Who is the Riordan Clinic?

    http://www.riordanclinic.org/

    We are a not-for-profit 
    501(c)(3) corporation specializing in nutrition-based health services. Based in Wichita, KS, for 35 years, our treatment philosophy helps to identify the underlying causes of your illness.

    A big greedy Alt medicine clinic.

    thanks for the clarification about riordan
    Hi Blake,

    A not for profit alt clinic doing very good deeds.
    This is goodnews.

    I never knew you guys had not for profit drug companies.
    Maybe these riordan will on sell or licence the patent.
    I expect for the aa drug to be marketed nationally in the us only a hand full of companies
    could do it. I expect they all want their margin.

    But its still good to know.

    thanks,
    Pete
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member

    thanks for the clarification about riordan
    Hi Blake,

    A not for profit alt clinic doing very good deeds.
    This is goodnews.

    I never knew you guys had not for profit drug companies.
    Maybe these riordan will on sell or licence the patent.
    I expect for the aa drug to be marketed nationally in the us only a hand full of companies
    could do it. I expect they all want their margin.

    But its still good to know.

    thanks,
    Pete

    Just once
    I wish you all would speak English for us blonds. I'm not going to read the article, shoot, too long, too complicated. So I've been waiting for the quick synopsis from you all, and you still haven't given it. And what the heck is aa, been waiting for that to be clarified. My dear scientific ones, I'm studying political science, not biology or science. Be dears and give a bit of a synopsis of this please?
  • Just once
    I wish you all would speak English for us blonds. I'm not going to read the article, shoot, too long, too complicated. So I've been waiting for the quick synopsis from you all, and you still haven't given it. And what the heck is aa, been waiting for that to be clarified. My dear scientific ones, I'm studying political science, not biology or science. Be dears and give a bit of a synopsis of this please?

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