Metformin, EC, Solid Tumor Panels---oh my!

Harmanygroves

Ah, Road Trip...

You are a rather adventurous soul!And I certainly hope you are going someplace where people love you tremendously, and wait on you hand and foot, serving you delicious plates of turkey and cranberries (don't fast again quite yet, if you can enjoy a feast).

I have a really fun adventure going on right now, and am so happy to report I'm on the Oregon Coast at our beach house. I planned for the entire extended family to convene here this weekend so as to take the pressure off those who have other family obligations. I grew up being tug-of-warred between divorced parents, and as the stepmom of thirty-something year old adults, I never wanted to impose that type of pressure. We're going to make chicken enchiladas tomorrow, drink wine, play board games, and just be in the same space. I'm happy about that! I don't share DNA with anyone here, but it has never, ever mattered. We are family. 

Deb 1, thanks so much for sharing information about your fasts. It sounds like it has been a fairly successful regime for you. I have a friend from E. India who has stared me in the face and said, "Eat once every 24 hours, and make it count. Healthy food in moderation." I'm not going to make any hasty decisions, but I watch and listen. I also have a nutritionist, although I'm considering working with a naturopath who specializes in oncology. 

I'm so glad to hear you are on an adventure, and very curious about what environmental hazards you were exposed to. Sidenote: I had a very bad exposure incident with Round Up in my 30s. I won't elaborate, but I got soaked with it. Not good.

MAbound

I've been a lot less

I've been a lot less concerned with modifying my diet in any dramatic fashion, but rather changed things for myself by going organic starting before I got cancer. That's eliminated a lot of the junk that I used to eat and I weigh less now than I used to, but I am by no stretch of the imagine thin like I was when I was younger.

I'm more concerned by the environmental factors, like endocrine disruptors (also known as obeseogens btw), that we are constantly assaulted with in our daily lives and aren't necessarily made aware of. It takes a lot of effort and time to find out what they are and take some steps to reduce exposure. It's a process that doesn't happen overnight.

There is no complete magic list anywhere that I have found that names them and where they are found that I can share for avoiding them. Producers are allowed by our laws to bring new ones to market without first proving they are safe. They have to be proven that they are unsafe to be taken off the market and that generally takes many, many years. Think about all the articles in the news these days about PFOS and PFOAS everywhere in our environment and drinking water as examples about just two of them. Remember BPA? It's just as important to be concerned about the packaging of what we ingest as what is in them because a lot of plastic and can packaging that says it is now BPA free to make you feel safer now use similar, but differently named chemicals that are still endocrine disrupters. It's like drug dealers cutting drugs with things like fentynal and other substance to alter them enough to make prosecuting them more difficult because they are no longer chemically what's illegal. 

A list I have found helpful (but by no means is complete) is known as the Dirty Dozen list of endocrine disruptors. It's like the one for deciding which organic foods to spend your money on. They are: BPA (and similar iterations), Dioxin, Atrazine, Pthalates (anything with fragrance as an ingredient has them), Perchlorate, Fire retardants, lead, arsenic (it's in rice and chicken feed for example), mercury, PFCs (PFOS & PFOAS-also referred to as forever chemicals), organophosate pestisides (who wants to eat Roundup ready corn and other foods, anyway?), and glycol ethers. There are many more, but this is a good starting place to learn about endocrine disruptors.

I know it can feel hopeless to avoid all of these chemicals we are unwittingly exposed to these days and that the damage has already been done to many of us. I guess this is how I fight back for myself and for my other family members, especially my daughter and granddaughter. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to reduce exposure where it's possible and so, for me, this is where I focus my post treatment efforts to improve my health.

SF73

I feel like a complete fraud

I feel like a complete fraud writing about my experiences with pseudo-ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting since I have not been on any dietary restrictions for over 2 years now and it definitely shows. I am now 146 lbs - 3 pounds heavier than I was at the time of my diagnosis. Weight cycling (yo-yo dieting) is even more dangerous than being slightly overweight consistently. I am aware. But sustainable weight loss is an elusive goal even for someone like me who is super motivated because of the threat of recurrence. 

During my chemo treatment, I chose to go on a pseudo-ketogenic diet because of the studies that suggest fasting or fast mimicking diets increase the efficacy of chemo treatments.  I eventually got a ketone meter and measured my ketone and blood glucose levels religiously. At the time I was on Megace (something that increase Blood Glucose levels) and Metformin (reduces Fasting BG) and my Fasting BG values were all over the place which scared me. The appeal of both ketone and BG measurements were so that I feel in control (I do X, the measurement changes Y) and when numbers acted in an unpredictable way it defeated the purpose. I eventually bought a Continuous Glucose Measuring device to understand my BG levels and found out I have something called "adaptive glucose sparing" so having the highest BG levels in the morning may not be unhealthy. But I figured I was doing too many things at once and stopped all medication and obsessing over my diet and just exercised which we know for sure is good for you:) Until COVID I got at least 10K steps a day and did yoga for 3 times a week. I maintained 125-130 lbs during that time. 

Metabolic Health is very complex and I dont understand all the intricacies. I strongly believe the connection between metabolic disfunction and cancer. By focusing on a single number of BG I may have scared myself needlessly. The thought of what I was doing to help my odds was actually harming me was too scary. I wish we knew more. I wish there were guarantees. What I want to do now is to get back to being active. I also know grazing does not work for me. I will go back to some form of Intermittent Fasting (18:6 maybe or at least stop snacking between meals) I will not obsess over a single health outcome and instead enjoy the process. Thanks again for starting this thread and forcing me to think about my strategies Wishing you all the best on your journeys!

MAbound

This cancer is complicated

I think a lot of us focus on diet and exercise influences on our hormones and this cancer because they seem to be within our ability to have some control over. Control over something relevant when we feel we have lost control is a coping mechanism. There's got to be some magic diet, right? If only we had exercised more! The list of risk factors is longer than that and there are a good number of those that we have no control over. A healthy diet is in our own best interest, but it won't guarantee anything. Still, picking and choosing what things work and are actually better for us is not a waste, but nothing is ever one-size fits all.

I don't think it pays to pays to be obsessive about any of the things we have some control over for our health, but it doesn't hurt to put some effort into getting rid of the less healthy habits we may have engaged in without it taking over the life we have or impeding our ability to enjoy it.  A moderate, gradual approach would be so much easier without the yo-yoing. It's unrealistic to try to keep everything at ideals all of the time. That holds true for anyone whether they've ever had cancer or not, so it's important to not go to extremes. It feels good, like any other accomplishment, to conquer what bothers us. We should be all about making ourselves feel good about our lives following what treatment puts us through.

Don't beat yourself up for anything that you've been doing. I tried to not gain weight while on Megace and that was an exercise in futility. It impedes cancer, but it has those unavoidable side effects on weight, BP, and BS. It's a really difficult trade-off and takes a long time to recover from. There just are no shortcuts to losing that weight because Megace induces the production of fat cells. With everything you've been doing and trying, you have learned a lot along the way. That's a positive and your sharing your journey matters and helps, so in no way should you think yourself a fraud for having gone down this path and shared it with us. 

There will always be new diets to try and people will attempt them and swear by them because of all the books and other marketing for them. You can't stop anything where there's money to be made. There's a lot of good information and science that can be learned from them, but I think it's a mistake to rigidly adhere to just about all of them for any length of time. It sets you up for failure you really don't need to deal with. I'm not much for mint chocolate chip ice cream, but life isn't worth living if I could never have a chocolate chip cookie again!

jan9wils

This has been a very

This has been a very interesting and informative thread.  I have some research to do. Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

Jan

Forherself

Anti inflammatories

I remember a discussion about anti inflamatories reducing recurrence too.

Afoste3

Agree, interesting discussion

To follow to Forherself's comment, my mom is seeing an integrative doctor that specializes in oncology patients.  Her focus is reducing inflammation and boosting the immune response.  She recommended metformin, melatonin, magnesium powder, turkey tail mushroom and resveratrol as supplements.  Nothing crazy diet-wise, just focused on eating whole (as opposed to processed) foods.  She is not currently on chemo; I don't know if the suggestions would change if that's the case (of course every person is different and supplements need to run by the dr).  She still recurred while taking the supplements, but the cancer was squashed back down pretty quickly for the time being, so maybe they still are doing something (?) I don't think there is any way to outgame the cancer, but seems worth taking steps if the supplements aren't affecting quality of life.  Aside from needing to keep track of all these pills, she has noticed an improvement in how she feels energy-wise and hair, skin, nails etc.     

Anne-Marie

MoeKay

Make sure to thoroughly research if aspirin is right for you

I know there has been mention on this thread and others of using the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory aspirin for cancer prevention (initial and recurrence).  I knew that recommendations had recently changed on the use of aspirin for prevention of heart attacks and strokes, so I did a quick search to see what, if anything, was new on aspirin use with respect to cancer prevention. 

Here are a few links to recent articles on aspirin as it relates to cancer prevention.  Please make sure to do your own thorough research if this is something you are considering and also discuss with your doctor whether in your particular case the benefits of taking aspirin outweigh the risks. 

From the National Cancer Institute (NCI) (October 2020):  "Can Taking Aspirin Help Prevent Cancer?"  https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/research/aspirin-cancer-risk

Also from the NCI (August 2020): "Regular Aspirin Use May Increase Older People's Risk of Dying from Cancer"  https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2020/aspree-aspirin-increases-advanced-cancer

From the American Cancer Society, "Regular Use of Aspirin May Help Improve Survival After a Diagnosis of Colorectal Cancer"  https://www.cancer.org/research/acs-research-highlights/colon-and-rectal-cancer-research-highlights/regular-use-of-aspirin-may-help-improve-survival-after-a-diagnos.html

From the Cleveland Clinic (November 2021): "Should You Take Daily Aspirin"  https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-you-need-daily-aspirin-for-some-it-does-more-harm-than-good/

From the Mayo Clinic (October 2021): "Daily Aspirin Therapy: Understand the Benefits and Risks"  https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/daily-aspirin-therapy/art-20046797

 

 

Forherself

Interesting links

Interesting article from the NCI.  Maybe the thinner blood allows cells to travel easier.  I also wonder if Ibuporofen would be the same. I don't think it has the blood thinning effect Aspirin does.

 

Harmanygroves

COC Adjuvant Therapy?

Has anyone here worked with or researched the Care Oncology Cancer team? I was cruising around looking at a book mentioned by Deb 1, and viewing some of the "Truth About Cancer" videos (you know, just kinda binge watching cancer stuff, lol, typical free time activity), and I came across a book by Jane McLelland, a British woman. The title as follows: "How to Starve Cancer Without Starving Yourself." She has survived cancer four times, including a stage 4 B cancer (forget what kind, sorry), and she referenced COC and the combination of drugs they use to "starve cancer." Metformin, a statin, an antibiotic, and something else (sorry, it's getting late). Anyway, I don't have a dog in the fight here, but I feel like someone in this site recommended them at some point [edited to add that I feel like it could have been CMB? also changed spelling of sight to site]. 

I viewed quite a lot of an online course McLelland offers, and she seems to have some good reviews. I was impressed with explanations and the science, and would be interested to know if anyone else has read or viewed her research and work. 

I am grateful for the discussion here, and have learned a lot. Thanks, everyone! 

 

BluebirdOne

I have taken a baby aspirin for many years.

My internist wants me to stop because of the increased risk of internal bleeding as I am 71. I started taking it due to the early stroke history in my family. The study cited in the NCI was very interesting as I had never read about the increased cancer risk taking aspirin over 70, and I will talk to my doctors next visit.

Thanks for the links, MoeKay!

Denise

Harmanygroves

I wonder?

Hey Denise!

When they asked my dad to dwindle down on his baby aspirin, I think they took him to one a day for quite a while. I wonder if that will be the case for you?

Deb

BluebirdOne

I have only ever taken the single 81 mg

dose so I don't think that will be an issue, thanks! For surgery they advised to stop taking the aspirin one week prior to clear the system.

xxoo

Denise

Harmanygroves

Thank you for sharing that, Blue!

Thanks so much, Denise!

Hugs, Deb