Stage IV Mastasized to Lungs-Newly Diaganosed

spudcat

Hi Everyone,

I am brand new to this board.  I was diagnosed in 2015 with Endometrial Carcinoma FIGO II,G2, treated with TAH-BSO.  On April 26 I was given my results and am now FIGO Stage IV since it has mastasized to my right upper lung lobe.

I have been told by my Radiation Oncologist I will be receiving 5 consecutive rounds of radiation and then see my Gyno Oncologist for chemo treatment.  It has been explained to me that this metastasis is not curable but treatable.

I am finding that the doctors won’t give me any definite answers.  They seem to dance around the subject when asked if this is terminal, or what the mortality rate is for this kind of diagnosis.  I understand they do not like to do this however, I am very realistic and am the type of person who needs to know approximately.  If it’s a year or 10 years.  I also understand it is hard for them to say as we do not know yet how I will respond to treatment.  I have read that the prognosis of this is not favorable, if the mass/tumor is over 2 cm you have less chances of survival past 1 year. My question is, does this go into remission or has it gone into remission?  Has anyone gone into remission?

Anyone willing to talk/share their experience, I would be very appreciative of this. 

To all of you who have survived and are going through this now and perhaps again, kudos to you for being strong courageous women.  I beat it first time and you will too.  I cannot stress how important it is to keep that positive attitude.  It worked for me, yes there were days I was down and out but you must pull up your boots straps from the depth of despair and rage on…YOU CAN DO THIS…YOU ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO BEAT THIS!!  Please take those words to heart.  Surround yourselves with support, be it here, internet, facebook, or in person, home, group therapy, whatever, you need that push.

Thanks for listening and sorry for being preachy.  I am still reeling for my news.  Still very emotional.

TeddyandBears_Mom

spudcat, so sorry for your

spudcat, so sorry for your news. Welcome to our board. You will find loads of support, understanding and information here. There are several ladies that have experienced similar issues as you are facing. I'm sure they will be along soon to share. Stay strong and please come back as you move along this next wave of your journey.

Love and Hugs,

Cindi

cmb

Need to Know...

I can empathize with your desire to have a more definitive understanding of your future with this unfortunate recurrence. But I suspect one reason that your doctors are hedging their answers more than they might have in the past is due to the increased use of new treatments like immunotherapy that have really just begun to enter the mainstream after years in trials.

If someone has the genetic profile to benefit from one of these new treatments, all the prior estimates of life expectancy are off the table for now. As you may have read in the posts originated by "Little_Sister757," her sister is scheduled to start on Keytruda, an immunotherapy as a front-line treatment, instead of her doctors first trying conventional chemotherapy. While other ladies on the Board have also been given Keytruda, this is the first time that I can recall where it's been used as a first-line treatment outside of a trial for someone on (or related to) to a member of this site. 

And if you didn't receive chemotherapy as part of your initial diagnosis in 2015, the conventional chemotherapies may work well for you now as your body hasn't developed a resistance to those drugs.

There are a number of ladies who still post that are/were Stage IVB, some with recurrences. While you wait for some of them to respond, you can also search older posts for terms like "recurrence" "Stage IV" or "metastasis" to read what some of those ladies have gone through and their results – again keeping in mind that they didn't all have the option of trying some of the new treatments now available.

I'm sorry you had to join this site after being NED (no evidence of disease) for several years, but you will find lots of support from those on this site as you embark on the next battle in your own war with cancer.

pattiann45

tell me a bit more

spudcat,

 

I am sorry to hear about his. Can you tell me anymore about the orignial diagnosis.  For example,  did they tell you about myometrial invasion?  Did they take out any lymph nodes?  Regarding your new diagnosis, is the metastasis in one site only?  Have you had a pet scan?

 

spudcat

pattiann45 said:

tell me a bit more

spudcat,

 

I am sorry to hear about his. Can you tell me anymore about the orignial diagnosis.  For example,  did they tell you about myometrial invasion?  Did they take out any lymph nodes?  Regarding your new diagnosis, is the metastasis in one site only?  Have you had a pet scan?

 

Hi Pattiann,

Hi Pattiann,

Thank you so much for responding, I really appreciate it.  This is taken off my medical chart from the doctor, I have access to my chart online. I hope this helps

Endometrial Carcinoma FIGO II,G2, No LVI, treated with TAH-BSO with LND and radiation.  They took out 9 lymph nodes that tested negative.  

The metastasis is in my right lung, main bronchi upper right lobe.  I had a stent put in howevery, on the day of my diagnosis and the CT Scan for the tatoos they saw the stent had migrated and I was admitted to hospital to have it removed.  I was released yesterday.  

Upon my check up with the oncologist, ( I go every 6 months and this was my 2 year anniversary) I asked about a dry cough I had had for about a month, she decided to do an x-ray, from there I had a CT SCan where they found the tumor.  I was escalated to the Cancer Assessement Centre where the head of the centre took my case and ordered, Bone test (PET scan), CT of Pelvis, Abdomen, MRI of brain, Endobronchial ultrasound (EBUS) biopsy which is where they found the cells.  My tumor is 3.5 cm.  From what the Oncologist said it was one cell that attached to the bronchi.  Not sure if she said that to make me feel better or not, also I am not sure it really matters if it is one cell or many, it's all the same in the end. 

I truly appreciate this forum.  Looking around, this gives me "hope" not for a cure but the fight to keep going and prolong my life.  I was googling (bad bad idea) about prognosis and mortality and was devastated.  However, I came here and this has opened up so many doors and espcially hope.  Sometimes a little hope is all one needs to get out of the depth of despair.

Also it is so nice to be able to have a place to come and talk to others who are experiencing or have experienced similar situations.

Thank you again!

 

 

 

spudcat

TeddyandBears_Mom said:

spudcat, so sorry for your

spudcat, so sorry for your news. Welcome to our board. You will find loads of support, understanding and information here. There are several ladies that have experienced similar issues as you are facing. I'm sure they will be along soon to share. Stay strong and please come back as you move along this next wave of your journey.

Love and Hugs,

Cindi

TeddyandBears Mom, thank you

TeddyandBears Mom, thank you so very much.  I truly appreciate this forum.  I am ever so grateful to have a place to come and mingle and share and support my fellow sisters

spudcat

cmb said:

Need to Know...

I can empathize with your desire to have a more definitive understanding of your future with this unfortunate recurrence. But I suspect one reason that your doctors are hedging their answers more than they might have in the past is due to the increased use of new treatments like immunotherapy that have really just begun to enter the mainstream after years in trials.

If someone has the genetic profile to benefit from one of these new treatments, all the prior estimates of life expectancy are off the table for now. As you may have read in the posts originated by "Little_Sister757," her sister is scheduled to start on Keytruda, an immunotherapy as a front-line treatment, instead of her doctors first trying conventional chemotherapy. While other ladies on the Board have also been given Keytruda, this is the first time that I can recall where it's been used as a first-line treatment outside of a trial for someone on (or related to) to a member of this site. 

And if you didn't receive chemotherapy as part of your initial diagnosis in 2015, the conventional chemotherapies may work well for you now as your body hasn't developed a resistance to those drugs.

There are a number of ladies who still post that are/were Stage IVB, some with recurrences. While you wait for some of them to respond, you can also search older posts for terms like "recurrence" "Stage IV" or "metastasis" to read what some of those ladies have gone through and their results – again keeping in mind that they didn't all have the option of trying some of the new treatments now available.

I'm sorry you had to join this site after being NED (no evidence of disease) for several years, but you will find lots of support from those on this site as you embark on the next battle in your own war with cancer.

cmb:  also thank you for

cmb:  also thank you for responding.  I am zooming around the board and reading so much.  thank you for the hope and the information.  When I meet my chemo doctor I want to have loads of information and questions to ask.  This info you have given is excellent. 

My goodness, this morning I was sobbing in despair and 12 hours later I feel releived I am not alone, someone is out there willing to offer support.  I truly appreciate everything!!

I hope I will also be able to help a fellow sister with my knowledge, information, education or experience.

Again, thank you

pattiann45

there is always hope

Spudcat,

 

I am sorry that you are going through this.  You are correct in that googling never turns out well.  I have read several studies where a pulomary recurrence, especially when solitary, can be surgically removed.  Can I ask did you have any cts of the lung prior to or after your diagnosis?  Before the one that you just had?

NoTimeForCancer

spudcat, when I was first

spudcat, when I was first diagnosed I asked if there was anything to read online and was told:  stay off the internet.  Stats are old and you are statistic of one.  As you see, there are good women here and they are here to lend and ear and tell you what they have experienced.  You are not alone.

spudcat

pattiann45 said:

there is always hope

Spudcat,

 

I am sorry that you are going through this.  You are correct in that googling never turns out well.  I have read several studies where a pulomary recurrence, especially when solitary, can be surgically removed.  Can I ask did you have any cts of the lung prior to or after your diagnosis?  Before the one that you just had?

Unfortunately no. I asked

Unfortunately no. I asked when both my GP and Onco about testing after the first bout of this 2 years ago and the response was, only if you show signs.  It is too expensive to test everyone and what exactly would we test for, there are so many forms of cancer.  I didn't know any better back then and left it as it was.  Then guess what?  Signs showed up and here I am. 

I live in Canada, I know this is a USA site but I have found that the USA has much more information and are more forth coming with information, support and assistance.  I hope by being Canadian that doesn't boot me out of here.

Oh yes with regards to surgery, they have state this is inoperable.  With that said, when I meet with my original surgeon I am going to pose this question.  It could be due to where the tumor is located which is on my main bronchi in the upper right lobe. 

 

ConnieSW

Spudcat, welcome

.Members of this group come from all over the world. We are human beings first here. No borders. Wish that were the way of the world. 

By the way, we are neighbors. I live about 20 miles from the New York/Canadian border. 

derMaus

spudcat said:

Unfortunately no. I asked

Unfortunately no. I asked when both my GP and Onco about testing after the first bout of this 2 years ago and the response was, only if you show signs.  It is too expensive to test everyone and what exactly would we test for, there are so many forms of cancer.  I didn't know any better back then and left it as it was.  Then guess what?  Signs showed up and here I am. 

I live in Canada, I know this is a USA site but I have found that the USA has much more information and are more forth coming with information, support and assistance.  I hope by being Canadian that doesn't boot me out of here.

Oh yes with regards to surgery, they have state this is inoperable.  With that said, when I meet with my original surgeon I am going to pose this question.  It could be due to where the tumor is located which is on my main bronchi in the upper right lobe. 

 

Welcome! We have plenty of

Welcome! We have plenty of people from other countries; as ConnieSW says, no borders! With regard to testing, many members doctors say, post treatment, that they go by "symptoms". I think that is a bunch of crap -- if you wait until you have symptoms then it's often further along when it's caught. I couldn't tell from your previous posts if you were scheduled for stereotactic radiation or not; you refer to tattoos - usually used for external radiation - but I wasn't clear what happened after that. Have they discussed a more focused radiation, such as CyberKnife?

Northwoodsgirl

Spudcat

Welcome to the forum! Wish it was under better circumstances. You have come to a good place for first hand information from your “sisters” in the fight of our lives. Others have provided you with some great suggestion. Many of us have learned what to ask and demand in order to survive. I can tell you are a strong woman and have been through a lot. The uncertainty is so hard to deal with. We just want the BEST plan of ACTION to overcome cancer.  

Look up the NCCN website for the standard of care for your stage/grade and reoccurence. Personally in my case I had 26 lymph nodes removed plus a para aortic node.  I will keep you in my prayers. ((HUG))

Lori

DKK

Pay no attention to numbers

welcome! You will find the kindest and most wonderful support group here.

i just wanted to expand on what cmb  said.  It is absolutely true that the docs no longer feel comfortable saying you have 2 years left, or whatever. It is due to the new targeted and immunotherapies that have skewed all the old results.  

A dear  friend PhD cancer researcher told me the survival charts are FIVE years old!   Five years in medicine, like technology, means the numbers are obsolete.  Moreover,  as an article from the WSJ or NYT recently  noted, docs are even hesitant to recommend hospice. One doc recounts his experience where he placed a patient in hospice but she ended up getting a type of immunotherapy.  She walked out of hospice and has no active disease. So the vaccines and immunotherapis and targeted anti cancer drugs are changing the entire survivalists landscape.  While that is difficult for us living in uncertainty, it’s also the good news.

evolo58

DKK said:

Pay no attention to numbers

welcome! You will find the kindest and most wonderful support group here.

i just wanted to expand on what cmb  said.  It is absolutely true that the docs no longer feel comfortable saying you have 2 years left, or whatever. It is due to the new targeted and immunotherapies that have skewed all the old results.  

A dear  friend PhD cancer researcher told me the survival charts are FIVE years old!   Five years in medicine, like technology, means the numbers are obsolete.  Moreover,  as an article from the WSJ or NYT recently  noted, docs are even hesitant to recommend hospice. One doc recounts his experience where he placed a patient in hospice but she ended up getting a type of immunotherapy.  She walked out of hospice and has no active disease. So the vaccines and immunotherapis and targeted anti cancer drugs are changing the entire survivalists landscape.  While that is difficult for us living in uncertainty, it’s also the good news.

And in many cases, survival rates go back further.

We look at survival rates for Stages III and IVs and shudder ... until we look more carefully at the numbers.

Take this site itself: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/endometrial-cancer/detection-diagnosis-staging/survival-rates.html

Fifteen percent for Stage 4B! Scary! And it is. Survival rates for Stages III and IV ARE scary. But another look at the text shows that these include people diagnosed between 2000 and 2002! Treatment and medical knowledge have  changed siginficantly in the last 16 years or so.

Well, then, if's off to another site:  https://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/corp.html. The rate is so, so much higher at 16.3! (A little sarcasm there.) But a look at that data shows that data was collected between 2008 and 2014. A little more of a cause of concern because the data seems closer to 2018, but again, things have changed a whole lot in ten years!  Admittedly, though, the 2008 data might be useful for 10-year suvival rates ... for now. 

It does concern me that suvival rates are inching up, rather than going up significantly. I can't lie there. But the more I look into this cancer, including various studies. the more contradictory and confusing the results are. 

These survival rates, by the way, include women who refused treatment, women who unfortunately did not have access to good medical care for their cancer, women who were much older at age of diagnosis, women with co-morbitiies that severely affected treatment, etc. The cancer.gov site allows you to enter some variables, such as race and age of diagnosis, but there are so many others. 

And here is the punchline ... there are some women who have the most dire prognosis who beat the odds and suvive for many years! It is no wonder that doctors are reluctant to provide survival rates. This is a caprcious, unpredictable disease that I think can even confound oncologists. 

pattiann45

spudcat said:

Unfortunately no. I asked

Unfortunately no. I asked when both my GP and Onco about testing after the first bout of this 2 years ago and the response was, only if you show signs.  It is too expensive to test everyone and what exactly would we test for, there are so many forms of cancer.  I didn't know any better back then and left it as it was.  Then guess what?  Signs showed up and here I am. 

I live in Canada, I know this is a USA site but I have found that the USA has much more information and are more forth coming with information, support and assistance.  I hope by being Canadian that doesn't boot me out of here.

Oh yes with regards to surgery, they have state this is inoperable.  With that said, when I meet with my original surgeon I am going to pose this question.  It could be due to where the tumor is located which is on my main bronchi in the upper right lobe. 

 

Yes, the follow-up model for EC

makes me so angry!  Escpecially for early stage 1-2 EC's.  THEY DO NOTHING!!!!!  I could go on and on about this, but will save for another time.  Radiation can really do a lot!  Keep in mind that some 50 percent of EC cancer can be treated with radiation alone. As I have said to others:  I would request next generation sequencing of the tumor tissue.  Potential immunotherapy coupled with radiation and chemo could be very effective.  I have been thinking about you a whole lot, and sending positive thoughts and prayers your way.  Please keep us updated, and feel free to PM if you ever need to vent to someone.  I would be happy to listen.

Warmly,

Patrice

spudcat

Thanks so much ladies, I

Thanks so much ladies, I really appreciate all of you!!

I had my first radiation treatment today on my lung.  I am tired as it was a busy day, treatment and calibration the machine, meeting with the nurse to go over side effects, then meeting with my Rad Onco. which wasn't planned, they sprung that on me when I arrived. 

What I found out from her, (when she told me the original diagnosis I had a hard time listening to anything after) my tumour is in operable due to it being on the main bronchus on my right lung.  The tumor is also wrapped around the bronchus which is what was causing the narrowing of my airway. 

DerMaus: I had external radiation on my pelvis first time, this time it is my chest.  I do not know what CyberKnife is and not sure I would be eligible due to where the tumor is situated. 

I am in radiation until May 8 and I also visit with the chemo team to discuss if chemo is the right course for me or what would be.  This, is what .  radiation oncol told me today.  I hope not wish, no pray they can do another course of action instead of chemo.  But I am afraid with my luck and from what I have researched it looks like it will be chemo.

I also wanted to ask you ladies...have any of you tried a holistic approach?  I am curious because I saw a few videos on youtube and a couple articles where people opted out of the traditional chemo -radation and cured themselves or maintained their health (for uncured/advanced cancer) with a holistic approach.  I do not know much about this area and was just curious.  There is SO much information out there that is can be quite overwhelming and my head starts to spin.  I am curious and have made it a part of research to find out more.

Pleae feel free to share.

ConnieSW:  I'm in Ottawa Ontario so we are neighbors!!

 

derMaus

spudcat said:

Thanks so much ladies, I

Thanks so much ladies, I really appreciate all of you!!

I had my first radiation treatment today on my lung.  I am tired as it was a busy day, treatment and calibration the machine, meeting with the nurse to go over side effects, then meeting with my Rad Onco. which wasn't planned, they sprung that on me when I arrived. 

What I found out from her, (when she told me the original diagnosis I had a hard time listening to anything after) my tumour is in operable due to it being on the main bronchus on my right lung.  The tumor is also wrapped around the bronchus which is what was causing the narrowing of my airway. 

DerMaus: I had external radiation on my pelvis first time, this time it is my chest.  I do not know what CyberKnife is and not sure I would be eligible due to where the tumor is situated. 

I am in radiation until May 8 and I also visit with the chemo team to discuss if chemo is the right course for me or what would be.  This, is what .  radiation oncol told me today.  I hope not wish, no pray they can do another course of action instead of chemo.  But I am afraid with my luck and from what I have researched it looks like it will be chemo.

I also wanted to ask you ladies...have any of you tried a holistic approach?  I am curious because I saw a few videos on youtube and a couple articles where people opted out of the traditional chemo -radation and cured themselves or maintained their health (for uncured/advanced cancer) with a holistic approach.  I do not know much about this area and was just curious.  There is SO much information out there that is can be quite overwhelming and my head starts to spin.  I am curious and have made it a part of research to find out more.

Pleae feel free to share.

ConnieSW:  I'm in Ottawa Ontario so we are neighbors!!

 

CyberKnife is stereotactic

CyberKnife is stereotactic radiation. It's high dose - much higher than external beam - directed at a very small target area. It's used w/brain tumors, prostate cancer, lung cancer, etc., to treat tumors that are in otherwise inoperable locations. Definitely ask about it. While there are a few people on this board who've done 'holistic' treatment instead of chemo/radiation, you'll find many more who've combined the two using supplements and other approaches to support their body before, during and after traditional treatment. I'm sure you'll hear from many members on this topic. What chemo combination did you have previously? 

barnyardgal

spudcat said:

Thanks so much ladies, I

Thanks so much ladies, I really appreciate all of you!!

I had my first radiation treatment today on my lung.  I am tired as it was a busy day, treatment and calibration the machine, meeting with the nurse to go over side effects, then meeting with my Rad Onco. which wasn't planned, they sprung that on me when I arrived. 

What I found out from her, (when she told me the original diagnosis I had a hard time listening to anything after) my tumour is in operable due to it being on the main bronchus on my right lung.  The tumor is also wrapped around the bronchus which is what was causing the narrowing of my airway. 

DerMaus: I had external radiation on my pelvis first time, this time it is my chest.  I do not know what CyberKnife is and not sure I would be eligible due to where the tumor is situated. 

I am in radiation until May 8 and I also visit with the chemo team to discuss if chemo is the right course for me or what would be.  This, is what .  radiation oncol told me today.  I hope not wish, no pray they can do another course of action instead of chemo.  But I am afraid with my luck and from what I have researched it looks like it will be chemo.

I also wanted to ask you ladies...have any of you tried a holistic approach?  I am curious because I saw a few videos on youtube and a couple articles where people opted out of the traditional chemo -radation and cured themselves or maintained their health (for uncured/advanced cancer) with a holistic approach.  I do not know much about this area and was just curious.  There is SO much information out there that is can be quite overwhelming and my head starts to spin.  I am curious and have made it a part of research to find out more.

Pleae feel free to share.

ConnieSW:  I'm in Ottawa Ontario so we are neighbors!!

 

I was diagnosed last

I was diagnosed last September and I'm 3a. I wasn't thrilled about going through chemo but, while not fun, it is definitely doable. I was allergic to the standard Taxol and carboplatin regime, so I did adriamyacin and carboplatin. I did get sick and I did lose my hair, but after the first few days I felt much better. While I think eating healthy, exercising, etc is an important part of dealing with cancer,  I would not count on it to get rid of or manage cancer without chemo or radiation. Even athletes and really healthy people have gotten cancer. So while I don't want to do chemo or radiation I do it because the odds are better. I had chemo 6 times, and am now getting radiation 25 times. After the doctor would like me to do 1-2 more times of chemo.

I agree that survival rates have increased. When I first looked at the statistics the survival rate is 58% for 3a. After talking with my oncologist (who didn't want to quote statistics) said with chemo and radiation it's now more like70-75%. And that stastic includes people who are older and less healthy than I am according to my doctors.

 

Tamlen

spudcat said:

Thanks so much ladies, I

Thanks so much ladies, I really appreciate all of you!!

I had my first radiation treatment today on my lung.  I am tired as it was a busy day, treatment and calibration the machine, meeting with the nurse to go over side effects, then meeting with my Rad Onco. which wasn't planned, they sprung that on me when I arrived. 

What I found out from her, (when she told me the original diagnosis I had a hard time listening to anything after) my tumour is in operable due to it being on the main bronchus on my right lung.  The tumor is also wrapped around the bronchus which is what was causing the narrowing of my airway. 

DerMaus: I had external radiation on my pelvis first time, this time it is my chest.  I do not know what CyberKnife is and not sure I would be eligible due to where the tumor is situated. 

I am in radiation until May 8 and I also visit with the chemo team to discuss if chemo is the right course for me or what would be.  This, is what .  radiation oncol told me today.  I hope not wish, no pray they can do another course of action instead of chemo.  But I am afraid with my luck and from what I have researched it looks like it will be chemo.

I also wanted to ask you ladies...have any of you tried a holistic approach?  I am curious because I saw a few videos on youtube and a couple articles where people opted out of the traditional chemo -radation and cured themselves or maintained their health (for uncured/advanced cancer) with a holistic approach.  I do not know much about this area and was just curious.  There is SO much information out there that is can be quite overwhelming and my head starts to spin.  I am curious and have made it a part of research to find out more.

Pleae feel free to share.

ConnieSW:  I'm in Ottawa Ontario so we are neighbors!!

 

I'll second barnyardgal

I'm a science geek just out of interest, and I've seen no reliable evidence anywhere that holistic/alternative treatment can cure or extend life for this cancer. I've seen enough good evidence of the value of alternative therapies for supporting our bodies during the fight and to supplement the chemo/radiation treatment, that I am working with a naturopathic oncologist in addition to my traditional docs.

ConnieSW

spudcat said:

Thanks so much ladies, I

Thanks so much ladies, I really appreciate all of you!!

I had my first radiation treatment today on my lung.  I am tired as it was a busy day, treatment and calibration the machine, meeting with the nurse to go over side effects, then meeting with my Rad Onco. which wasn't planned, they sprung that on me when I arrived. 

What I found out from her, (when she told me the original diagnosis I had a hard time listening to anything after) my tumour is in operable due to it being on the main bronchus on my right lung.  The tumor is also wrapped around the bronchus which is what was causing the narrowing of my airway. 

DerMaus: I had external radiation on my pelvis first time, this time it is my chest.  I do not know what CyberKnife is and not sure I would be eligible due to where the tumor is situated. 

I am in radiation until May 8 and I also visit with the chemo team to discuss if chemo is the right course for me or what would be.  This, is what .  radiation oncol told me today.  I hope not wish, no pray they can do another course of action instead of chemo.  But I am afraid with my luck and from what I have researched it looks like it will be chemo.

I also wanted to ask you ladies...have any of you tried a holistic approach?  I am curious because I saw a few videos on youtube and a couple articles where people opted out of the traditional chemo -radation and cured themselves or maintained their health (for uncured/advanced cancer) with a holistic approach.  I do not know much about this area and was just curious.  There is SO much information out there that is can be quite overwhelming and my head starts to spin.  I am curious and have made it a part of research to find out more.

Pleae feel free to share.

ConnieSW:  I'm in Ottawa Ontario so we are neighbors!!

 

Love Ottawa

Beautiful city-love the tulip festival.