Sugar <<= the enemy ???

Phil64

See the link for an interesting article...

 

https://idmprogram.com/emerging-hallmarks-of-cancer-cancer-12/

JanJan63

Interesting but he doesn't

Interesting but he doesn't come up with an option for treatment. We can't cut out sugar because our normal cells need it, so what's the solution? I wish he'd have furthered his information and come up with a possible treatment idea. It's about time someone comes up with something new for treating cancer. Enough money has gone into this already.

Jan

Mikenh

I saw a piece by Lustig in

I saw a piece by Lustig in 2008 and cut way back on sugar. No sodas (well, diluted Ginger Ale for nausea) and I track what I eat and drink so I have reports on sugar, carbs, fiber, protein and fat and try to keep the added sugar to well below FDA recommendations (which were cut a few years ago). I think that one soda could equal your RDA requirements for the day.

peterz54

Mikenh said:

I saw a piece by Lustig in

I saw a piece by Lustig in 2008 and cut way back on sugar. No sodas (well, diluted Ginger Ale for nausea) and I track what I eat and drink so I have reports on sugar, carbs, fiber, protein and fat and try to keep the added sugar to well below FDA recommendations (which were cut a few years ago). I think that one soda could equal your RDA requirements for the day.

Sugar - New Lustig book and talk on the sugar fiasco

Sugar comes up a lot in this forum.   My opnion is that sugar and simple carbs are not seen as the threat they really are.  Some of that is due to lack of knowledge or just being immersed in a culture where simple carbs are common place, but some of it is due to addiction, which is one of the points Robert Lustig makes. 

He doesn't really talk about the sugar effects on insulin which potentiates cancer growth or as a direct fuel for cancer.   That topic is covered by other researchers/MDs  (Eugene Fine, MD and Thomas Seyfried PhD are two)

He is Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology at the University of California, San Francisco, where he specializes in neuroendocrinology and childhood obesity

Recent lecture.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sRsb0a30Y&t=946s

OzarkGal

Diet

I just don't get this.  Both my grandmothers died in their late 80's.  They cooked the typical Southern fare.  You had to have meat with every meal.  Everything was fried.  If the vegetables were not fried, then they were seasoned with bacon grease or butter.  They cooked with lard.  They drank whole milk because they believed that skim milk was bad for you.  Supper usually came with dessert.  My grandfrathers died of heart disease and/or diabetes related issues in their 70's.  My mother died in her 70's from heart disease.  What did I do?  I watched my weight.  Low fat, low refined sugar intake.  I always said no to dessert.  I mostly ate chicken, very little red meat.  I ate a lot of salads.  And here I am at age 50 dealing with cancer.  I just cannot make sense out of it.

peterz54

Sugar <<= the enemy ??? YES!!!</b>
Definitely.  Many disease states are aggravated or caused by too many simple carbs and too much refined sugar in our diet.  
Cancer patients need to have zero-tolerance all simple carbs, especially during the therapy phase.   
 

peterz54

OzarkGal said:

Diet

I just don't get this.  Both my grandmothers died in their late 80's.  They cooked the typical Southern fare.  You had to have meat with every meal.  Everything was fried.  If the vegetables were not fried, then they were seasoned with bacon grease or butter.  They cooked with lard.  They drank whole milk because they believed that skim milk was bad for you.  Supper usually came with dessert.  My grandfrathers died of heart disease and/or diabetes related issues in their 70's.  My mother died in her 70's from heart disease.  What did I do?  I watched my weight.  Low fat, low refined sugar intake.  I always said no to dessert.  I mostly ate chicken, very little red meat.  I ate a lot of salads.  And here I am at age 50 dealing with cancer.  I just cannot make sense out of it.

Sorry

But that's why looking at popuation studies can be helpful.   The example of a handful of people will not shed light on the problem or solution.    

You could have been exposed to toxins or have a bad gene that skipped generations.   Or there could be something else epigenetically going on which overides your lifestyle.

Look at the Blue Zone studies where people live a lot longer and live longer disease free - the reasons appear to multifactorial, with diet (most plant based) and physical activity playing a role, bu tnot being the only factors. They still get disease, just at a lower rate and usually, but not always, at a later age.

 

 

 

kyolcu

peterz54 said:

Sugar <<= the enemy ??? YES!!!</b>
Definitely.  Many disease states are aggravated or caused by too many simple carbs and too much refined sugar in our diet.  

Cancer patients need to have zero-tolerance all simple carbs, especially during the therapy phase.   

 

Sugar

I asked my oncologist to cut dessert she said no I don’t have to but eat it in moderation.

peterz54

kyolcu said:

Sugar

I asked my oncologist to cut dessert she said no I don’t have to but eat it in moderation.

She's like most

This is a very important issue and your oncologist is most likely, as are most, uninformed.  If you have low insulin and not subjectc to insulin spikes after eating, them maybe OK, but I'm guessing your metabolic health has not been looked at closely.  Half of American are either diabetic or prediabetic, which is impirtant for cancer.

  You might want to seek at the views of oncologists who have taken the time to inform themselves on diet for cancer pateints.   Two are Colin Champ and Dawn Lemanne.  Links to their talks are have been posted elsewhere if you care.  On Youtube also.  

Here's the view of Dr. Cantly PhD and director of the Weill Cornell's Meyer Cancer Center

For Cantley, the perils of sugar go beyond the diseases of metabolic syndrome. He says that its connection to cancer is becoming increasingly clear, based on analyses showing that people with type 2 diabetes—a state of extreme insulin resistance—have much higher rates of a variety of cancers, including those of the endometrium, breast, pancreas, colon, and brain. "Insulin is the best of all activators of PI3-kinase—and PI3-kinase is arguably the most mutated pathway in all of cancer," he explains. "So if you follow the logic that anything that drives activation of PI3-kinase ultimately results in cancer, and that insulin is the best way to do it, then that suggests that having high levels of insulin is likely to drive your cancer. And what drives insulin levels is sugar."

PamRav

Cancer patients

need to have zero-tolerance all simple carbs, especially during the therapy phase.   !!!

PeterZ I don’t doubt you’re statement   But honestly the only foods I could tolerate during my chemo were the white foods  .  The stuff I knew wasn’t particularly good for me .  Potatoes   Rice   White pasta .   So maybe I’ve set myself up for failure.  Only time will tell.   Post chemo I’m eating very clean so hopefully that will count for something  

pam

ps  cute dog!

 

kyolcu

peterz54 said:

She's like most

This is a very important issue and your oncologist is most likely, as are most, uninformed.  If you have low insulin and not subjectc to insulin spikes after eating, them maybe OK, but I'm guessing your metabolic health has not been looked at closely.  Half of American are either diabetic or prediabetic, which is impirtant for cancer.

  You might want to seek at the views of oncologists who have taken the time to inform themselves on diet for cancer pateints.   Two are Colin Champ and Dawn Lemanne.  Links to their talks are have been posted elsewhere if you care.  On Youtube also.  

Here's the view of Dr. Cantly PhD and director of the Weill Cornell's Meyer Cancer Center

For Cantley, the perils of sugar go beyond the diseases of metabolic syndrome. He says that its connection to cancer is becoming increasingly clear, based on analyses showing that people with type 2 diabetes—a state of extreme insulin resistance—have much higher rates of a variety of cancers, including those of the endometrium, breast, pancreas, colon, and brain. "Insulin is the best of all activators of PI3-kinase—and PI3-kinase is arguably the most mutated pathway in all of cancer," he explains. "So if you follow the logic that anything that drives activation of PI3-kinase ultimately results in cancer, and that insulin is the best way to do it, then that suggests that having high levels of insulin is likely to drive your cancer. And what drives insulin levels is sugar."

Sugar

I had an appointment with my Oncologist  today at MD Anderson, I asked her same question that do I need to restrict sugar or carb intake, she clearly said no I don’t have to but use in moderatation because our good cells need sugar. She also mentioned that certain cancers may be related in hormon levels so insulin level will be important but colon cancer has no relation with hormones therefore no reason to cut sugar or carbs completely.

peterz54

kyolcu said:

Sugar

I had an appointment with my Oncologist  today at MD Anderson, I asked her same question that do I need to restrict sugar or carb intake, she clearly said no I don’t have to but use in moderatation because our good cells need sugar. She also mentioned that certain cancers may be related in hormon levels so insulin level will be important but colon cancer has no relation with hormones therefore no reason to cut sugar or carbs completely.

Understand

My intent in offering up postings of researchers and oncologists was to offer up information that some people here might want to investigate for themselves.  I would certainly not suggest taking my word for anything.   

I'm well aware that it's a lot of work to pull the thread when something new comes along because it takes a time and requires reconciling different professional opinions, who is credible, and learning new technical jargon.  I've spent hundreds of hours at the NIH library of medicine web site and listening to lectures and am aware that this is an approach that most people will not take up.  But a few will.  

My personal opinion is that metabolic therapies are promissing, but need larger more rigorous trials, more clinical experience, and fine tuning, in addition to more basic reaserch, but that's me and it has taken time and a lot work for me to get here.   It would make no sense for someone unfamilair with these options to take them on face value after one or two exposures-  they are just meant to spark interest, something to consider looking into more deeply.   

Good luck with your therapy.

 

peterz54

PamRav said:

Cancer patients

need to have zero-tolerance all simple carbs, especially during the therapy phase.   !!!

PeterZ I don’t doubt you’re statement   But honestly the only foods I could tolerate during my chemo were the white foods  .  The stuff I knew wasn’t particularly good for me .  Potatoes   Rice   White pasta .   So maybe I’ve set myself up for failure.  Only time will tell.   Post chemo I’m eating very clean so hopefully that will count for something  

pam

ps  cute dog!

 

Thanks Pam

Sophie is my companion these days.  Life would be different, and grayer, without her.  

Sorry about the way I might have come across.   Yes, I know that each person has unique issues (biological and psychological) and a cookie cutter approach will not work across the board.  Oncologist Dawn Lemanne presented data that suggested even a modest reduction in simple carbs/sugars can improve outcome, so it doesn't have to be all or nothing.   

 

peter 

 

 

ThomasH

My humble opinion is that refined sugar isn't good

Once I learned how a PET scan worked, that pretty much convinced me that sugar is like rocket fuel for cancer. Honestly, your regular cells burn fat quite happily. I have a lot of friends who don't have cancer who have chosen a keto diet for either weight loss or just because they feel better eating that way, and they have done so for years without any ill effects. 

Your regular cells can metabolize either sugar or fat. Your Cancer cells exclusively use sugar, so if you have a choice, why do anything that could help the cancer I say?

Everyone will have their own opinion of course. My personal experience with my oncologist has left me with the impression that nutrition just isn't their specialty. Maybe yours is different, but mine really didn't have any useful knowledge on the topic, and didn't feel that nutrition had any impact on things at all.

I believe it has a great impact on things. It isn't the only thing of course, but everything counts in some way certainly. 

I try not to do anything that is helpful to my cancer, and if cutting out sugar seems to be one of those things, then I'm all for that.

Take care all,

Thomas

Mikenh

PamRav said:

Cancer patients

need to have zero-tolerance all simple carbs, especially during the therapy phase.   !!!

PeterZ I don’t doubt you’re statement   But honestly the only foods I could tolerate during my chemo were the white foods  .  The stuff I knew wasn’t particularly good for me .  Potatoes   Rice   White pasta .   So maybe I’ve set myself up for failure.  Only time will tell.   Post chemo I’m eating very clean so hopefully that will count for something  

pam

ps  cute dog!

 

Carbs are easy for the body

Carbs are easy for the body to absorb so I use them during chemo. Vegetables would be nice but they mostly go straight into the bag. A lot of the healthy eating stuff is after the reversal in my opinion.

Robjoe

ThomasH said:

My humble opinion is that refined sugar isn't good

Once I learned how a PET scan worked, that pretty much convinced me that sugar is like rocket fuel for cancer. Honestly, your regular cells burn fat quite happily. I have a lot of friends who don't have cancer who have chosen a keto diet for either weight loss or just because they feel better eating that way, and they have done so for years without any ill effects. 

Your regular cells can metabolize either sugar or fat. Your Cancer cells exclusively use sugar, so if you have a choice, why do anything that could help the cancer I say?

Everyone will have their own opinion of course. My personal experience with my oncologist has left me with the impression that nutrition just isn't their specialty. Maybe yours is different, but mine really didn't have any useful knowledge on the topic, and didn't feel that nutrition had any impact on things at all.

I believe it has a great impact on things. It isn't the only thing of course, but everything counts in some way certainly. 

I try not to do anything that is helpful to my cancer, and if cutting out sugar seems to be one of those things, then I'm all for that.

Take care all,

Thomas

That is pretty much the

That is pretty much the feeling I got as well.   Take out regular ole’ sugar.  It was suggested that natural fruit is a great option and while we’re not trying to be nutso, I’m giving this every option possible, as I research more and more.  my spouse is the one with stage 4 colon mest. To liver, but I decided to chuck the kit Kat’s etc, as it sure can’t hurt me either.