Good site compares PC treatments - surprising results

Steve1961

site comparison

sorry i just looked at the donors and contributors  to the site  most of them are radiologist and one of them is Steven Kurtzman, M.D. OMG i couldnt believe it..i saw trhis guy for a consoltation what a complete A HOLE..this guy needs to be reported...he bad mouthed stanford  saying it is the worst palce any one shopuld ever go for surgery..he bad mouthed the surgeon i saw saying he isnt even an ocologist..he said he has done over 6000 brachtherapies..he said he can do it in 25 min utes blindfolded,, OMG what a ****  he even dropped the f bomb in  front of my wife..the sacarey thing is people actually use this guy...sorry after seeing his name and seeing that radiation is at the top of aall treatments..i give this site ABSOLUTELY NOP CREDIBILITY AT ALL

hopeful and optimistic

The Founder of PCFF, Dr. Peter Grimm, is a radiation oncologist.

I attended a lecture and spoke with Dr. Grimm before he passed away. He was a renown radiologist who did brachy. He was probably the very best in the world.  At the time, when I considered brachy, and believed if this became my treatment choice, I would travel to Seattle from So CA. where I live to have it done.  I believed Dr. Grimm to be highly ethical.

Of course most doctors from each specialty advocate their specialty.

 

 

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3

hopeful and optimistic said:

The Founder of PCFF, Dr. Peter Grimm, is a radiation oncologist.

I attended a lecture and spoke with Dr. Grimm before he passed away. He was a renown radiologist who did brachy. He was probably the very best in the world.  At the time, when I considered brachy, and believed if this became my treatment choice, I would travel to Seattle from So CA. where I live to have it done.  I believed Dr. Grimm to be highly ethical.

Of course most doctors from each specialty advocate their specialty.

 

 

I said as much...

Hopeful and Optimistic,

I said what you wrote above:  I do not doubt that all are great, respected doctors, prominent in their field.  I have never met any of them, and also have never researched any of them.  My analysis was drawn completely from the PCFF website exclusively.

The website is a collection of radiation oncologists, mostly Brachytherapy guys, who now brag about how what they do is the best thing available in the world.  No shocker there.   They just need to stop pretending to be objective.   I would never grant any credibility to anything they published.  In the books I have read regarding PCa, Brachytherapy is not highly regarded, even among radiation oncologists themselves.

max

Clevelandguy

Objective study?

Hi All,

Have to agree with Max, seems kind of biased towards seeds.  I would feel better if it came from the American Cancer Society or another noted cancer center or college.

 

Dave 3+4

Old Salt

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3 said:

Objective ?

grahambda,

I read your link from the Prostate Cancer Free Foundation (PCFF) that compiled the results....thank you.  Folks here routinely complain that, when a surgeon recommends R.P. it is because of "bias."   Given that common observation, I submit the following for your consideration.

The first two questions to ask before reading any study on any subject are:(1) Who wrote it? and (2) Who paid for it ?

The Founder of PCFF, Dr. Peter Grimm, is a radiation oncologist.

On the site's Study Group, which is presumably who submits papers, there are 36 doctors.  Their specialty breakdown, from the site itself, is as follows:  

28 are Radiation Oncologist  (!!).   Of these, while some are cross-trained in medical oncology, most have spent most of their careers in R.O.  Most have been department heads of radiation oncology or similiar positions of prominence.

Four or five from The Group are trained in surgery, but most of these use surgery to perform Brachytherapy. In effect, they too are radiation oncologists in practice.

A very high percentage of the Group overall states specialization in Brachytherapy generally. One (Dr. Merrick) is past President of the American Brachytherapy Society.  Dr. Jeremy Millar is "head of brachytherapy services" at Alfred Health.

About four doctors in The Group could not be identified as to career specialty with the data provided on the site, except for being oncologists and researchers.  I could not identify one (1) member who is straightforwardly focused on R.P.

I do not doubt that every one of these doctors is stellar, and a leader in curing PCa.   But the composition of the Group as a whole screams "Radiation Cheering Section !"

You say the results are "surprising."  Hardly so.

max

 

Thanks Max

For doing some serious homework, beyond the call of duty. You deserve an A+ for that post.

hopeful and optimistic

max,

At various posts that you make at this board, you often quote from a book biased toward surgery, written by Patrick Walsh, a respected SURGEON from Johns Hopkins....Is that one of the  sources  that you just mentioned that desparages Brachytherapy?

Dr Grimm is to Brachy as DR. Walsh is to surgery.

Each professional , as you can realize drinks their own kool-aid.

I'm sure that there is information tnat is relevant from Dr. Walsh, as from Dr. Grimm in their writtings. 

We have to be informed to select what is relevant from each source.

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3

Nope

hopeful and optimistic,

I have never read anything by a Dr. Patrick Walsh....never heard of him in fact.  I have also never read any book by anyone "biased toward surgery."

As I've stated twice above, I am sure that everyone at the PCFF is excellent.  Just don't assemble 36 radiation oncologists and then be surprised that what they find most effective is...radiation.   When doctors submit to professional journals, they are required to disclose any fiducary or professional links they have to the study or what it espouses.  It would be much more honest if people just stated their obvious orientation, that's all I recommend.

Actually, many times, I have stated that I do not buy in to the notion that doctors "recommend what they sell."  My view of MDs is higher than that.  Surgeons and radiation oncologists will all remain millionaires, regardless of what this or that patient decides.  The doctors I all spoke with were very charatible and generous in their assessments of treatments different than what they offered themselves, and I would suspect this to be true generally.  Personally, I have never stated dislike or low appreciation of RT, and in fact have more often recommended RT to men than RP.

Also, I never said that anyone I had read "disparaged" Brachytherapy, but rather that even many radiation oncologists find it less appealing than other forms of radiation.  Surgery was not part of their conculsions or even discussion.  I will dig up the reference for you,

 

 

hopeful and optimistic

Patrick Walsh, Johns Hopkins

Sorry, I thought that it was you who always quote from Patrick Walsh's book. At any he wrote the book, " surviving prostate cancer", that I recommend, eventhough he is a urologist, and the book is somewhat slanted toward surgery (LOL)

https://www.google.com/search?authuser=0&ei=kWRyWuCmOtHIjwPl9b3ACA&q=patrick+walsh+md+johns+hopkins+books&oq=patrick+walsh+md+johns+hopkins,+book&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.33i21k1j33i160k1l2.26504.27803.0.31061.6.6.0.0.0.0.149.710.1j5.6.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.707...0i22i30k1.0.kf0OByktWFQ