Anyone with SCC HPV+ NOT have chemo or had alternative treatment

riveter

corleone said:

Alternative treatment

I hesitated for a long time to reply to this thread (and in particular to Riveter), because I don’t know to a great degree of certainty what the truth is.

Nevertheless, I feel compelled to also present what I think, maybe that will help others to decide.

First of all, you are not alone, thinking how damaging the standard treatment for cancer is, and to be much more afraid that the treatment might kill you, before the cancer does. That’s certainly true.

There are a few things to consider, in my view:

Firstly, there is a well-known fact, that early stages (like in your case T1N2) SCC +HPV Base of Tongue is highly treatable, with a very high success rate. If the treatment is done correctly, and if the staging is indeed correct (i.e. it did not spread above loco-regional), the cure rate is very high (around 90% or even higher, depending on the treatment center). The treatment itself is very tough, with permanent side effects, fact.

Secondly, the fact that the tumor did not spread (even if decreased a bit) is not in itself a good thing. The tumor in the primary location is continuously shedding “free” cancer cells in the lymph and blood. These cells went through many division cycles, and suffered many mutations. Given the opportunity, they can home in a very different area, (i.e. metastasize), and start growing a micro tumor. These are not visible with the current imaging technology, and they need time to grow (probably a couple of years) to a volume that allow to be “visualized”.

Thirdly, the Gerson (or any other alternative) therapy is not proven (in controlled clinical trials) to be effective. Whereas the standard treatment is proven, with known failure and success rates. It doesn’t matter how “scientific” the mechanism of action (of the alternative treatment) is explained, if that has not been proven in a controlled environment.  

Fourthly, if the standard treatment would have failed, or the staging would have been much higher, the discussion would have been perhaps very different.

And to a final note, addresed to Riveter: you have already decided to go through this path. It was your choice, I respect that (I was very close to follow this path myself) and some of the above thoughts are no longer applicable to you. I wish you good luck with your current treatment, and I hope you keep us posted.

Thank you

Thank you for adding to this topic. I was hesitant to jump back in with a defensive comment because this is not about ego and I know I am taking a chance on something that has not had actual Clinical Trials. But Dr. Gerson's cases are well documented. In fact, Clinical Trials would be impossible to do for Gerson Therapy as it is a lifestyle, not a drug that one takes. It is two years of 15 hour treatment days and is done in one's own home.

I guess for me I am not about extending my life by some percentage and adapting to or accepting the side effects of treatment. I'm about improving the quality of my life. And with my sleep apnea and being a mouth breather who wakes up with a dry mouth frequently, I did not think I could afford any damage to my salivary glands and the impact it may have had on my sleep. That and living alone and having no emotional support. That led me to a natural medicine approach.

I respect everyone's Cancer treatment choice; it is hard whichever way we chose.

Here is what a typical Gerson Therapy day looks like:https://youtu.be/R6hnqUliErM

 

OKCnative

For me, I was in very good to

For me, I was in very good to excellent health prior to my diagnosis for SCC BOT. My diet or physical exercise did not contribute to my cancer diagnosis. My cancer was HPV+, a virus that virtually every person contracts at some point. Fortunately, most people fight it off. 

When I was first diagnosed my wife asked my oncologist if I should eliminate sugar, go vegan or only buy organic. My oncologist just smiled, took my wife's hand and said, "Your husband has cancer. Nothing you can do with his diet or exercise is going to change that. Everything he eats eventually turns to sugar. Chemicals on food didn't cause this, HPV did."

Chemo was given to me as an option. However, my oncologist said she recommended chemo because it would destroy any straggler cancer cells that may be traveling through my body and possibly cause cancer somewhere far less treatable. She also said that radiation would probably be more grueling than the chemo, so if I could tolerate the chemo I should take it also.

I did, and 4.5 months later my life is back to normal.


A healthy lifestyle is crucial to overall good health and critical in getting through treatment and back to normal. That said, no amount of healthy eating or coffee enemas was going to cure me without medical treatment.

I can't tell you the number of people I met or learned of who later died of cancer because of one simple reason - they refused to accept their diagnosis and seek traditional medical treatment. There is no vast conspiracy to hide a natural cure from the public. That's fatal nonsense.

johnsonbl

I was Stage 4 SCC HPV+...

And had surgery and radiation, no chemo.  Whether you can have surgery depends on tumor size and whether or not they think they can get good margins.  If they can and you don't have any other high risk features then you can get away with radiation only.  If they can't get it out w/ surgery then the standard is usually radiation plus chemo.

HPV+ is very curable so I wouldn't screw around and try weird things.  Hit it hard according to guidelines...

Curlyn

OKCnative said:

For me, I was in very good to

For me, I was in very good to excellent health prior to my diagnosis for SCC BOT. My diet or physical exercise did not contribute to my cancer diagnosis. My cancer was HPV+, a virus that virtually every person contracts at some point. Fortunately, most people fight it off. 

When I was first diagnosed my wife asked my oncologist if I should eliminate sugar, go vegan or only buy organic. My oncologist just smiled, took my wife's hand and said, "Your husband has cancer. Nothing you can do with his diet or exercise is going to change that. Everything he eats eventually turns to sugar. Chemicals on food didn't cause this, HPV did."

Chemo was given to me as an option. However, my oncologist said she recommended chemo because it would destroy any straggler cancer cells that may be traveling through my body and possibly cause cancer somewhere far less treatable. She also said that radiation would probably be more grueling than the chemo, so if I could tolerate the chemo I should take it also.

I did, and 4.5 months later my life is back to normal.


A healthy lifestyle is crucial to overall good health and critical in getting through treatment and back to normal. That said, no amount of healthy eating or coffee enemas was going to cure me without medical treatment.

I can't tell you the number of people I met or learned of who later died of cancer because of one simple reason - they refused to accept their diagnosis and seek traditional medical treatment. There is no vast conspiracy to hide a natural cure from the public. That's fatal nonsense.

Hi OKC- It is interesting

Hi OKC- It is interesting that your oncologist stated that chemo- Cisplatin- wasn't just a radiosensitizer, but could kill cancer cells elsewhere. I was told by my oncologist that it would not- that it is only a radiosensitizer to enhance the effect of radiation and help kill cells locoregional, where the radiation field is aimed.. And perhaps I misunderstood. If it did kill other cancer cells then there wouldn't be the concern with brain, lung and bone mets. I certainly hope that's true because it would make up for some of the suffering that the platinum based drugs put us through. Thanks for mentioning this.

corleone

Curlyn said:

Hi OKC- It is interesting

Hi OKC- It is interesting that your oncologist stated that chemo- Cisplatin- wasn't just a radiosensitizer, but could kill cancer cells elsewhere. I was told by my oncologist that it would not- that it is only a radiosensitizer to enhance the effect of radiation and help kill cells locoregional, where the radiation field is aimed.. And perhaps I misunderstood. If it did kill other cancer cells then there wouldn't be the concern with brain, lung and bone mets. I certainly hope that's true because it would make up for some of the suffering that the platinum based drugs put us through. Thanks for mentioning this.

Cisplatin based chemo does

Cisplatin based chemo does kill tumor cells anywhere in the body, not just acting synergistically with radiation. The issue is that tumor cells are very heterogeneous, some are very sensitive to chemo (die quickly), others not at all. In general, the treatment is much more effective the first few cycles, and the intent is to kill all of them during the first rounds of treatment (hence the higher doses used, at the limit of tolerability and toxicity). However, if administered for longer time, or during following rounds, those cancer cells that escape continue to divide, and the offspring cells become more resistant to drug (kind of natural selection at the cellular level, if you will). 

Although I had a different type of cancer (Nasopharyngeal carcinoma), I had a similar concurrent treatment: chemo (cisplatin) and radiation. I can attest that the cisplatin was highly effective in my case; after each cycle (even the first one, before the radiation was given), the enlarged lymph nodes on my neck (easily palpable) decreased significantly in volume (by almost half of previous size, during the first and second day after chemo).

Curlyn

corleone said:

Cisplatin based chemo does

Cisplatin based chemo does kill tumor cells anywhere in the body, not just acting synergistically with radiation. The issue is that tumor cells are very heterogeneous, some are very sensitive to chemo (die quickly), others not at all. In general, the treatment is much more effective the first few cycles, and the intent is to kill all of them during the first rounds of treatment (hence the higher doses used, at the limit of tolerability and toxicity). However, if administered for longer time, or during following rounds, those cancer cells that escape continue to divide, and the offspring cells become more resistant to drug (kind of natural selection at the cellular level, if you will). 

Although I had a different type of cancer (Nasopharyngeal carcinoma), I had a similar concurrent treatment: chemo (cisplatin) and radiation. I can attest that the cisplatin was highly effective in my case; after each cycle (even the first one, before the radiation was given), the enlarged lymph nodes on my neck (easily palpable) decreased significantly in volume (by almost half of previous size, during the first and second day after chemo).

Thank you for responding.

Thank you for responding. Makes me feel better that I had the chemo now. 

CivilMatt

I got to be me.

Curlyn,

Whenever life calls for alternate and controversial therapy I opt for Doctor Nestles and Doctor Hershey intensive self-indulgence that is a BIG glass of chocolate milk and a candy bar or two or three.   Since implementing this therapy I have never been happier, I climb trees faster and higher and I can throw a Frisbee a football field’s length and I sleep like a bear hibernating.

I feel the need coming on.

Peace,

Matt

Andy13460

Cisplatin and Radiation

I took whatever they had to throw at me and would do exactly the same again. Until I see a survey that shows good survival at 5 years for lower dose treatments I'm for the max chance of surviving every time. If you make the wrong choice that wooden box is waiting for you, anyway the radiation is cancer causing and that is the main treatment the Cisplatin is mainly used as a radiation sensatizer. If you are diagnosed HPV+ you have made a massive stride towards cure and surviving.

 

OKCnative

Curlyn said:

Hi OKC- It is interesting

Hi OKC- It is interesting that your oncologist stated that chemo- Cisplatin- wasn't just a radiosensitizer, but could kill cancer cells elsewhere. I was told by my oncologist that it would not- that it is only a radiosensitizer to enhance the effect of radiation and help kill cells locoregional, where the radiation field is aimed.. And perhaps I misunderstood. If it did kill other cancer cells then there wouldn't be the concern with brain, lung and bone mets. I certainly hope that's true because it would make up for some of the suffering that the platinum based drugs put us through. Thanks for mentioning this.

From Chemocare website -

From Chemocare website - "Cisplatin is classified as an alkylating agent. Alkylating agents are most active in the resting phase of the cell. These drugs are cell cycle non-specific." 

I was told that while Cisplatin works extremely well in conjunction with radiation, that it is also good at killing cancer cells on it's own (and non cancer cells - it doesn't discriminate).

Curlyn

OKCnative said:

From Chemocare website -

From Chemocare website - "Cisplatin is classified as an alkylating agent. Alkylating agents are most active in the resting phase of the cell. These drugs are cell cycle non-specific." 

I was told that while Cisplatin works extremely well in conjunction with radiation, that it is also good at killing cancer cells on it's own (and non cancer cells - it doesn't discriminate).

Thanks, I have to admit that

Thanks, I have to admit that it was a difficult time to retain information, so much pain...my husband couldn't remember what he was told about it but I think it was my or my oncologist's misunderstanding of the question.

Curlyn

CivilMatt said:

I got to be me.

Curlyn,

Whenever life calls for alternate and controversial therapy I opt for Doctor Nestles and Doctor Hershey intensive self-indulgence that is a BIG glass of chocolate milk and a candy bar or two or three.   Since implementing this therapy I have never been happier, I climb trees faster and higher and I can throw a Frisbee a football field’s length and I sleep like a bear hibernating.

I feel the need coming on.

Peace,

Matt

Matt, Crack me up! You are so

Matt, Crack me up! You are so right, " got to be me".

Ron Silver

"Gerson" is Quakery-Plain, Simple, Nonsense

riveter:  I wish you well, but you continue to post disinformation regarding "Gerson Therapy."  In your last post you write that "Gerson cases are well documented."  NO.  You write that "Gerson" is a "natural" alternative for cancer treatment.  NO.  Please stop.  Please anyone reading this thread do not consider "Gerson Therapy" to be anything more that quakery, a sure and painful death.  It is the work of a disreputable con man.  H&N Cancer is cureable even at a diagnosis of Stage 4, with chemoradiation, unlike many if not most other cancers.  Please who are just diagnosed read this forum and I fear they will be influenced by riveter's posts.  That would be tragic and it turns my stomach to think that even one person will be swayed by riveter's posts.  Yes, a coffee enema is more attractive than the utter horror of what chemoradition will do/has done to us.  Riveter I sincerely hope you are well and live a long life-but please no more praises for this debunked quakery (Gerson Therapy).  Readers please choose life.  This cancer is curable even at stage 4. 

Klingels

Chemo and Radiation

Seven months ago my husband had chemo and 7 weeks of radiation for stage 4 squamous cell carcinoma of the right tonsil. As of December, according to throat scopes, a CT scan, and a PET scan he is cancer free. The key term here is he is cancer free. He continues to be under doctors' care every 3 months for the first year, and then every 6 months for 5 years. He chose to hit the cancer hard in hopes there would be no recurrence. His treatment is done, and he does not need to continue with any other treatment, homeopathic or otherwise.

Chilinily

SCC - HPV-OPC

Aug 2016: Discovered lump in right node just under jaw.  Biopsy proved SCC with HPV 16.  Johns Hopkins wanted to take out node, do a TORS on the back of the tongue, along with 7 weeks radiation and chemo once each week. After second opinion (highly recommended) Dr.Paul Read, UVA Hosp, recommended low-dose radiation for 6 weeks, 5 days weekly.  Early Nov - December 2016.  Clear after that treatment.   Finished radiation Dec 23 2016.  Then the radiation damage to throat tissue became the main problem.  Jan & Feb 2016 very sick and weak.  Drank Orgain chocolate mix and Aleo Vera juice. Eggs cooked in butter only food that would ‘slide’ down.   Could not eat reg foods and lost 35 pounds.  Took 45 mgs of CBD oil from the beginning to end of radiation treatment.  Currently able to eat most foods, but nothing spicy or acid.  Need water to swallow bread and dry foods.  Tongue and throat still sensitive. Dry mouth still a huge problem.  Still feeling tired all the time.   I use Xylamelts all day and all night, plus lots of water.  So far scans and check ups have been clear.  Wishing everyong help and wellness with this type of cancer. 

armana

My Experience

I was diagnosed with stage III Tonsil cancer HPV 16+ september of 2014 with a single node involvement.  Had surgery to remove the tonsil

but they told me not remove the lymph node since I was going to have radiation. I finished 6 1/2 weeks of IMRT with no chemo Nov 2014 and been

cancer free since. The only side effect 40 months later is some dry mouth. Everyone is different and their reaction to treatment could be totally

different. I do not know how your cancer is staged but my oncologist told me if my cancer was stage 4, he would have also included some chemo

with the radiation. Let me know if you need any other information.

Arman

AnotherSurvivor

Chilinily said:

SCC - HPV-OPC

Aug 2016: Discovered lump in right node just under jaw.  Biopsy proved SCC with HPV 16.  Johns Hopkins wanted to take out node, do a TORS on the back of the tongue, along with 7 weeks radiation and chemo once each week. After second opinion (highly recommended) Dr.Paul Read, UVA Hosp, recommended low-dose radiation for 6 weeks, 5 days weekly.  Early Nov - December 2016.  Clear after that treatment.   Finished radiation Dec 23 2016.  Then the radiation damage to throat tissue became the main problem.  Jan & Feb 2016 very sick and weak.  Drank Orgain chocolate mix and Aleo Vera juice. Eggs cooked in butter only food that would ‘slide’ down.   Could not eat reg foods and lost 35 pounds.  Took 45 mgs of CBD oil from the beginning to end of radiation treatment.  Currently able to eat most foods, but nothing spicy or acid.  Need water to swallow bread and dry foods.  Tongue and throat still sensitive. Dry mouth still a huge problem.  Still feeling tired all the time.   I use Xylamelts all day and all night, plus lots of water.  So far scans and check ups have been clear.  Wishing everyong help and wellness with this type of cancer. 

And your account is in my

And your account is in my mind the only legitimate counter argument to the current Standard of Care.  We get to live, but at what cost.  Still, I am young enough to still be resiliant, and fortunate enough to be adaptive.  I now live in a world where it is not just about how I feel, but more importantly how I feel about how I feel.  We are coming on to Spring, optimism gets easier for a while.

lindab4

CivilMatt said:

which way to fix this

RW,

I was stage IVa, scc, bot, 1 lymph node, hpv+ (surgery, rads, erbitux).

In some circles Erbitux does not count as true chemo as it is unlike traditional platinum based chemo.  It helps prepare the cancer cells for destruction as does the platinum chemo, but are very different.

The inclusion of chemo in the treatment is an important part of a positive outcome, but everything we take can play havoc on our systems. It is a delicate (even though it doesn’t seem so) balance of just the right amount of rads, chemo or surgery.  You only want to go down this road once, if possible.  Many of us decide to throw everything at it. Some people have only surgery, rads or chemo and follow a path of great success.  Others do everything and it turns sour.  Most of us (not all) have lifetime scars from treatment side effects, but most are very livable.

Getting started the decision making can be mined numbing.  You are required to give yes or no answers to the experts.  They truly do not make it easy.

For the most part, a good doctor will steer you in the correct direction and in 3 months you will have this behind you and the days will be warmer and longer.

Good luck,

Matt

 

our cancer

Hi Matt 

My cancer sounds the same as yours.  I also had Erbitux because Cisplaten can cause deafness; and I already wore a hearing aid. Oncologist decision.

Mine was discovered in January, 2011 and I am happy to say I am still here!!   

Linda