Depression

gregslovey

Hi everyone, wondering what you all do to fight the dreaded depression that comes with this disease?  My husband is 6 months into Votrient, and his scans are great.  He goes to work everyday and walks the dog three times a day....but he says he has been in this great "funk" the past week.  Doesn't want to go anywhere or do anything, no interest in anything....

Most antidepressants interact with Votrient and he can't use them, so I was wondering if there are any suggestions out there?

thanks

Toni

Footstomper

Have you, or will you,

Have you, or will you, consider councelling? Apart from that I'm sure your doctor or oncolgist can find a drug that doesnt interact with Votrient.

hardo718

My own experience

And I don't claim to have any credentials Toni, but I think it's a perfectly normal response to his diagnosis and treatment plan.  And this time of year tends to throw a lot of people into a bit of a tizzy, for various reasons.  Maybe it's just the wake-up call that we are mere mortals.  The diagnosis alone kind of makes you start questioning things like is this my last ......  fill in the blank with whatever holiday, birthday, celebration, etc.  Kind of sucks, to be blunt.  Has he verbally expressed his thoughts or fears?  I know personally, I tend to feel depressed when I have no control over the situation, but then I tend to be a bit of a control freak....or so I'm told. 

Best wishes to you both,

Donna~

gregslovey

hardo718 said:

My own experience

And I don't claim to have any credentials Toni, but I think it's a perfectly normal response to his diagnosis and treatment plan.  And this time of year tends to throw a lot of people into a bit of a tizzy, for various reasons.  Maybe it's just the wake-up call that we are mere mortals.  The diagnosis alone kind of makes you start questioning things like is this my last ......  fill in the blank with whatever holiday, birthday, celebration, etc.  Kind of sucks, to be blunt.  Has he verbally expressed his thoughts or fears?  I know personally, I tend to feel depressed when I have no control over the situation, but then I tend to be a bit of a control freak....or so I'm told. 

Best wishes to you both,

Donna~

thanks

yes, he talks to me thank heaven.  I have told him it's prob his newly (relatively) diagnosed mets and the holidays.  I also have reassured him that it is NOT his last Christmas! I think it has a lot to do with the whole thing....the treatment, the side effects of the nausea, fatigue, weakness, and his hair has always been thick and brown and it's white and VERY thin so that takes it's toll, seeing his siblings over the holiday....

I did tell him we are going OUT this weekend to do something fun : )

I am also going to send him to his doc for an antidepressant....did some drug checking and wellbutrin looks to be a likely candidate.  He has always been a very active man, and I think slowing has something to do with it too.  Wellbutrin is good for giving you the oomph to get back into life.

thank you for your insight

gregslovey

Footstomper said:

Have you, or will you,

Have you, or will you, consider councelling? Apart from that I'm sure your doctor or oncolgist can find a drug that doesnt interact with Votrient.

thank you, we certainly would

thank you, we certainly would consider it.  The antidepressants mostly interact with the anti-nausea meds more than the Votrient.  I did some checking and think Wellbutrin will work.  I am going to have him go to the doc to see what can be done.

thanks for your advice. 

NewDay

Antidepressants

Hi Toni,

Not all antidepressants are contraindicated.  Some do need a dosage adjustment.  I have been on Wellbutrin for many years and it has worked very well for me, but everybody is different so if one doesn't work, you try another.  Also, see if the cancer center can refer him to someone for counseling.  It helps if you can find one with experience counseling cancer patients.  Even if he confides in you, it helps for the patient to see someone for counseling, because they may limit what they say to loved  ones for fear of worrying them.  I took Votrient until my liver enzymes were too high.  My fatigue and brain fog was pretty bad.

I really hope that the Votrient works well for him.  Do be sure he gets blood work often because liver enzymes can spike suddenly.

Kathy

 

foxhd

Everyone deserves

to hit a funk when dealing with cancer. He has to remember that he has cancer. Cancer doesn't have him. Besides, he's living with cancer not dieing from it. And if he doesn't want to die, he better believe it and practice it.

As for anti depressant medicine, I'm a proponet of medical maryjane.

JerzyGrrl

Great ideas -- plus...

Great ideas, especially the counselor-who's-familiar-working-with-cancer-patients. Also, realize that it may take 4 to 6 weeks for meds to kick in, so there is the whole patience thing. 

Meanwhile (and even afterwards), if you have access to a jacuzzi, that's super.  Soaking in a tub of warm water = great for helping reduce stress and anxiety. BUT! Soaking in a jacuzzi (warm water that's moving) = great for helping reduce stress, anxiety, and depression. 

Sometimes, I make a list of everything I can think of that's going well in life.  This is my Pollyanna approach to a really bummer of a day or time in my life.  Or, just write 'em on a scrap of paper and stick 'em in a jar as you think of them.  Likewise, make a list of insane / weird things encountered in the day, week, etc. But sometimes, during periods of extreme bummed-ness, that's hard to do. 

This time of year, in the Northern Hemisphere, we're in the midst of the whole dark thing, and S.A.D. (Seasonal Affective Disorder) can sneak up on those of us dealing with medical stuff. Lack of sleep (and/or needing more than usual) can be a biggie, too. Our ability to put up with what we see as others' nonsense can be tried on a good rested-up day.  So -- patience, persistence, and (I'm at a loss for another p-word).

Your husband feeling as though he's in a funk makes sense.  There are lots of things that can be contributing to it as well as things that can help it go away.  Hang in there --

Jerzy

PS That he says he's felt this way for a week is interesting. I wonder what's changed...

JerzyGrrl

foxhd said:

Everyone deserves

to hit a funk when dealing with cancer. He has to remember that he has cancer. Cancer doesn't have him. Besides, he's living with cancer not dieing from it. And if he doesn't want to die, he better believe it and practice it.

As for anti depressant medicine, I'm a proponet of medical maryjane.

Definitely

I have a Pity Party kit for when I hit a funk.  Paper hats, the noise things, little paper plates and matching napkins (They're left overs from somebody's birthday, so they're not funk-specific).  So far, the refreshments have yet to include MJ brownies, but I bet they'd be good with vanilla ice cream (and a bag of chips and the box of crackers and...).

rhominator

Time

'Been on Votrient for just about three years now. I have a hard time using the word depression, but I do know I've experienced sinusoidal highs and lows on a 60-90 basis. Based primarily, in my opinion, on the physical limitations the drug has placed on me. Over the course of this drug, I've slowly resigned myself to the role of a desk-jockey and accepted the fact that I can't force myself into shape--for now. Others have kindly picked up the slack for me, which lessens the number "reminders" that I'm incapable of doing what I used to do.

The magnitude of the swings has abated somewhat as time as progressed.

I'm thankful that I've been on a good, long run with Votrient.

Jan4you

First of all, Toni, you are a

First of all, Toni, you are a wonderful wife to seek out answers for him. I suspect he'd not do this on his way, yes?

Not all depressions are psychological, but you know him and his issues best. I know I worked in mental health. Talking therapy helps a lot once the barrier is passed and one tries it. BUT some depressions are clinical and caused by disease/medications or lack of the right chemicals (neurotransmitters). Eventually aniti depressants no longer work, but can help a lot in the beginning. Most doctors who are not trained in mental health (psychiatrists ) are easy to dispense of more meds, like an antidepressants without a full evaluation.

Don't get me wrong many may need an anti depressive and it will work, for awhile. Yes you still have to address any issues that are buried deep inside and not being addressed. FEAR for example. Loss and grief too.

BUT most MDs do not know much about NUTRITION and how the brain/body is depleted of needed nutrients to function efficiently. Medications and disease rob our systems of that  needed nutrition. They may send someone to a Dietician but they are not trained the same as nutritionists trained in NRT. Many chiropractors are trained in evaluating with NRT.

I went to an amazing Nutritionist, who's own father died of Crohn's in his 40s and warned his son to get into the health FOOD business to save lives. He also had a debilitating disease in his 20s. He became a nutritionist has this method of evaluation called NRT=nutritional response testing. Some alternative medicine places are trained in this method. I used it for another disease as I was near organ failure. It worked!

So you can do a search for NRT providers. They will offer you FOODs organically grown in their area, made into tablets/capsules to fEED your body of much needed nutritients. It is much more concentrated than EATING these foods by themselves. It also helps with side effects.

Your are given MORE exact dose and length of time to take these foods, for your body. AND it is soo exact you only get the amount your body can handle at a time. Even if you need, say 4-5 tablets of some foods, your body will say that is too much at once and its customized. It saved me and kept me working when it looked pretty doomed.

NRT is same as ART=autonomoic response testing when your physcian presses against your arm, for example and you press back to counter that. Its strength testing. Unlike most RX meds, you don't stay on these "whole foods" for longer than your body says it needs it. Most RX are given indefinitely not really knowing how long you should take them. Nutrition has no side effects, but meds do.

Know that NO USA MDs are trained in nutrition any longer  as its not offered in med school. So they poo poo things they know nothing about. I always mention that they can go to this class and learn. AND its whole FOOD, not chemicals, much kinder and more agreeable to our systems.

Anyway, thought I would share that with you as most folks no nothing about NRT. Keeps us informed ok hon?

Hugs, Jan

mrou50

Toni

I get depressed off and on and I have had this disease for a quite a while now, it is part of the disease and the wondering what is going to happen.  I was seeing a counselor at first when I was diagnosed and that helped me a great deal just talking about.  I was afraid to share with my wife because I did not want to stress her out.  She saw this and insisted I see a counselor and learn to talk to her about it turnes out she had the same worries and feelings as me.  This disease it not just the individuals it is everyone involved with that person and talking helps a lot trust me.  Good luck to both of you.

Mark

gregslovey

thank you all

This site is amazing simply due to all of you here.  thank you for all of your comments and suggestions.  I have assured him that to occasionally get "the blues" is perfectly normal when dealing with life changing events such as we have had this past year.  we are going to sit on it awhile before trying the pharmacological approach...and, yes, Mary Jane is already a part of his life and does help : )

He tells me that just my understanding, support and love has helped immensely and he will continue to have hope and a positive outlook to try to improve his mental health.

Rhominator, I think you have hit the nail on the head.  He is a "doer".....never sat down til after 9pm.  Doing less has him bothered and it will prob take quite awhile for him to adjust to that.

You all help me help him.....I can't thank you enough

Jojo61

Your husband is very lucky to

Your husband is very lucky to have you. I know he is in good hands. Depression, unfortunately, is a part of this journey. I know it is hard to see your husband like this. Lots of great advice was given here, I hope he gets through this soon.

Sending thoughts and prayers your way!

Hugs

Jojo

paula79282

I have the new cancer, my husband is depressed

I have metastized malignant neoplasm in my lung, after 3 years thinking I beat Kidney cancer. We are waiting to see my doctor next week to move on to referrals, testing and what to do next.  The thing is when I had my kidney cancer 3 years ago I reached out to family & friends for support.  They were great.  Now I feel so defeated that I've kept this from most.  My husband is so depressed he just works and sits on the couch.  He's gotten a plan for a second opinion and he say he won't let me die on his watch.  He's amazing in many ways so but I think he's had enough. why am I so depressed?  He does not want me to express fear or cry or talk about how I see the end of my life so clearly.  I also  have two amazing daughters, but they just watched their father's ( my X)  horrible death in April from esophageal cancer.  They can't take much more. I am a strong woman, but I feel like I want to live every moment and enjoy life, my husband can't see that and  it's so hard to do it alone.  My friends don't really understand, in fact when one of them said to me, oh everyone has a 20% chance of getting hit by a car too. It made me realize no one wants to listen to my belly aching, they all have their own problems.  i am forced to find  strength inside myself, to keep working, count my blessings.  Some days I am so exhausted, some days I imagine my whole body is filled with cacncer. I look at each holiday and birthday as the last All in silence all with a smile. I am really struggling inside, questioning every thing.  I feel lonely even surrounded by my love ones.  My Mother is in a Nursing home, she's 85, she has Alzhiemers..I have been her caregiver for 20 years.  I can't even see her..she may outlive me.  I wonder if not knowing is better, but she cries sometime. She doesn't know me.  I am venting with a heavy heart. i feel selfish, so many children, so many so sick, so many abandoned.  I'll have great doctors, medicines...it's realizing  end is in sight knowing life goes on for every one. not being able to tell anyone that truly understands is hard. I wanna cry but I've never shed a tear for myself. Thanks if your reading this,looking for comfort too, I see you,  I'll pray we both find peace. 

Jan4you

paula79282 said:

I have the new cancer, my husband is depressed

I have metastized malignant neoplasm in my lung, after 3 years thinking I beat Kidney cancer. We are waiting to see my doctor next week to move on to referrals, testing and what to do next.  The thing is when I had my kidney cancer 3 years ago I reached out to family & friends for support.  They were great.  Now I feel so defeated that I've kept this from most.  My husband is so depressed he just works and sits on the couch.  He's gotten a plan for a second opinion and he say he won't let me die on his watch.  He's amazing in many ways so but I think he's had enough. why am I so depressed?  He does not want me to express fear or cry or talk about how I see the end of my life so clearly.  I also  have two amazing daughters, but they just watched their father's ( my X)  horrible death in April from esophageal cancer.  They can't take much more. I am a strong woman, but I feel like I want to live every moment and enjoy life, my husband can't see that and  it's so hard to do it alone.  My friends don't really understand, in fact when one of them said to me, oh everyone has a 20% chance of getting hit by a car too. It made me realize no one wants to listen to my belly aching, they all have their own problems.  i am forced to find  strength inside myself, to keep working, count my blessings.  Some days I am so exhausted, some days I imagine my whole body is filled with cacncer. I look at each holiday and birthday as the last All in silence all with a smile. I am really struggling inside, questioning every thing.  I feel lonely even surrounded by my love ones.  My Mother is in a Nursing home, she's 85, she has Alzhiemers..I have been her caregiver for 20 years.  I can't even see her..she may outlive me.  I wonder if not knowing is better, but she cries sometime. She doesn't know me.  I am venting with a heavy heart. i feel selfish, so many children, so many so sick, so many abandoned.  I'll have great doctors, medicines...it's realizing  end is in sight knowing life goes on for every one. not being able to tell anyone that truly understands is hard. I wanna cry but I've never shed a tear for myself. Thanks if your reading this,looking for comfort too, I see you,  I'll pray we both find peace. 

First of all, Paula HUGS!!

First of all, Paula HUGS!! Warm, gentle, caring hugs, for you to know you will NOT be alone with this battle, NEVER EVER as long as WE are here!

I wish that your post  was in a NEW one, but here we are for you!! Always!! In ALL THINGS, cancer related!

NOW, what most do not know, is that they think once you are stage IV its over, done, might as well plan ...for the inevitable, WRONG!

You'll learn here that there ARE new treatments and improvements, as many here are Stage IV and are beating the odds. Yes, its a battle of trials and erroes but all is not lost! Given your ex's experience,  it is understandable you are all reacting to where you are at this moment. Yet you lack of the knowledge of treatments out there.

Now my advice for you, dear Paula, is to sit your family down (AFTER you learn of new treatments and your treatment plan) and let them know what YOU need from them. You may want to practice what you want to say to them, but writing it down. You can read it to them, but tell them from YOUR HEART, what YOU need. Then give them time to digest this with the NEW knowledge that YOUR cancer is different than your ex's.

As I see this, you are at a turning point. Often what we don't know is that OUR battle with the "c" word, will teach us and bring OUT inside of us, our strengths and weakness. We will become the NEW, improved version of who we are, and never knew we could be. We learn to gain information and HOPE from gathering resources, information and NEW SUPPORT!! This can NOT be battled alone!

So, Paula,  get yourself educated on what treatments can offer, (from others here and your doctors of course), THEN educate your family. Tell them what you need from them. Then THEY have to make a decision on how they will work WITH you, in this fight. They will learn how to cope differently. Give them that chance, Paula.

We are not responsible for how others cope, but we CAN ask for the help and support we deserve.

Glad you had the courage to come here and vent. Now on to HOPE with a different future, than your ex husband's.

Warm hugs, Jan

hardo718

Welcome Paula

I can only second what Jan has said.  And don't lose hope. So much new stuff on the horizon.  Yes, there may be dark days ahead but as cancer survivors, we can bounce back, stronger than ever from the challenges it presents.  Hang in there.

You're in my prayers,

Donna~

Steve.Adam

Hi Paula

Of course you know that you are welcome to vent here any time. I think many here will understand or identify with you.

It's always nice to find like minded people online but I wonder if there are any other opportunities for support near where you live.

Steve.

Footstomper

If you cant get depressed

If you cant get depressed when you've cancer, when can you? We're all ready to listen.

Paula, its a shame you didnt start your own thread, it looks like you've a lot to say.

We are here for you

Ed Brabant

Depression

Approching 4 years on Votrient. Durring that time I have stopped for 3-5 days about 9 times. My wife could hear it in my voice when I was due for a break. I would feel depressed not eating not having any interests in anything. The 3-5 day break for me worked great. It was like my body did a reset. It was my doctors idea. You may want to talk to yours.