Alternative Treatments in addition to traditional?

Dmiehl

Good evening everyone.  My dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer a couple of months ago.  He had a prostatectomy 3 weeks ago and his pathology report indocated ECE and positove margins.  He is scheduled for radiation in 10 months.  I know there is absolutely no medical validation or acceptance, but has anyome experienced complete success in terms of remission with sono photo dynamic therapy and/or mega dose vitamin c and/or rigvir and/or cannibis oil?

Thanks so much.

Dave

VascodaGama

Better chances with traditional therapies

Hi Dave,

I am sorry for your dad’s case of PCa. You did not shared details on his age and about his initial diagnosis or symptoms but the findings reported in the pathologist’s report are suggestive of the need in continued treatment which is what his doctor is recommending. Typically it is followed with adjuvant radiation or a combination of hormonal plus radiation. Protocols vary depending on the case and patient’s status.

I have no experience and have never read any article (scientifically or experiences) on successes with the treatments you question. They are sort of holistic which usually are recommended as a psychological mean to guys with other illnesses or reasons that may prohibit the administration of the more traditional ones. “Mega dose vitamin c and/or Rigvir (virotherapy) and/or cannabis oil, etc” have cured nobody. In the site of the NHS they also negatively comment about the SPDT;

“…Clinics promoting these so-called "advanced" versions of PDT, called "next-generation PDT" (NGPDT) and "sonodynamic therapy" (SDT) claim they can treat deep or widespread cancers, but these claims aren't supported by scientific evidence and these treatments aren't recommended…”

You can also read about the SPDT in the MAIL on line here;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588224/Doctor-offering-unconventional-900-hour-cancer-treatment-desperate-patients-misled-effectiveness.html

I believe you are doing your best in finding the right way to assist your dad but I think he would benefit more from therapies well established. The traditional adjuvant RT got proven outcomes in terms of biochemical free rates in five and ten years. The treatment done in ten months past RP assures proper healing from surgery and will provide time to verify if a salvage therapy is in fact needed.

The existing “extracapsular extensions” is a bad prognosis for late recurrences. “Positive margins” is typical in surgery and may not be related to cancer spread. The skin encasing the prostate is cut in two places, at the urethra and at the colon, when dissecting the gland. In these areas the skin will retreat showing positive margins. The danger for spreading would be if cancer was found in these places.

Here you got some material about Prognostic Factors for Failure after Prostatectomy;

http://www.jcancer.org/v02p0001.htm

Best wishes in his continuing journey.

VGama

Dmiehl

VascodaGama said:

Better chances with traditional therapies

Hi Dave,

I am sorry for your dad’s case of PCa. You did not shared details on his age and about his initial diagnosis or symptoms but the findings reported in the pathologist’s report are suggestive of the need in continued treatment which is what his doctor is recommending. Typically it is followed with adjuvant radiation or a combination of hormonal plus radiation. Protocols vary depending on the case and patient’s status.

I have no experience and have never read any article (scientifically or experiences) on successes with the treatments you question. They are sort of holistic which usually are recommended as a psychological mean to guys with other illnesses or reasons that may prohibit the administration of the more traditional ones. “Mega dose vitamin c and/or Rigvir (virotherapy) and/or cannabis oil, etc” have cured nobody. In the site of the NHS they also negatively comment about the SPDT;

“…Clinics promoting these so-called "advanced" versions of PDT, called "next-generation PDT" (NGPDT) and "sonodynamic therapy" (SDT) claim they can treat deep or widespread cancers, but these claims aren't supported by scientific evidence and these treatments aren't recommended…”

You can also read about the SPDT in the MAIL on line here;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588224/Doctor-offering-unconventional-900-hour-cancer-treatment-desperate-patients-misled-effectiveness.html

I believe you are doing your best in finding the right way to assist your dad but I think he would benefit more from therapies well established. The traditional adjuvant RT got proven outcomes in terms of biochemical free rates in five and ten years. The treatment done in ten months past RP assures proper healing from surgery and will provide time to verify if a salvage therapy is in fact needed.

The existing “extracapsular extensions” is a bad prognosis for late recurrences. “Positive margins” is typical in surgery and may not be related to cancer spread. The skin encasing the prostate is cut in two places, at the urethra and at the colon, when dissecting the gland. In these areas the skin will retreat showing positive margins. The danger for spreading would be if cancer was found in these places.

Here you got some material about Prognostic Factors for Failure after Prostatectomy;

http://www.jcancer.org/v02p0001.htm

Best wishes in his continuing journey.

VGama

VGarma,
Thank you very kindly

VGarma,

Thank you very kindly for your thorough response.  I apologize for omitting that information.  My father was on Avodart when his most recent PSA was taken so it is kind of difficult to say what the value was.  We have been told the Avodart halves the PSA so we would estimate it to be around 9.  His Gleason score was 7 (4+3) which essentially is an 8 from all of the research that I have done.  He is 67 years old.

Thanks very much.

Dave

hopeful and optimistic

Dmiehl said:

VGarma,
Thank you very kindly

VGarma,

Thank you very kindly for your thorough response.  I apologize for omitting that information.  My father was on Avodart when his most recent PSA was taken so it is kind of difficult to say what the value was.  We have been told the Avodart halves the PSA so we would estimate it to be around 9.  His Gleason score was 7 (4+3) which essentially is an 8 from all of the research that I have done.  He is 67 years old.

Thanks very much.

Dave

Screening; life style

Dave, 

Since family members, sons, brothers, etc are more likely to be diagnosed than the rest of the population, early screening is advisable, so if you will, a baseline PSA at 35, and regular screenings at 40 to include a digital rectal exam (finger wave). The right thing  is to notify family members.

Many of us who  post here, are more aware now, and have changed our life style habits, "heart healthy is prostate healthy" Some experts advocate a Mediterranean ; others a vegetarian diet, along with a regular exercise program. I personally do not eat any dairy or  meat with the exception of fish such as salmon on occasion.

Best,

stoniphi

hopeful and optimistic said:

Screening; life style

Dave, 

Since family members, sons, brothers, etc are more likely to be diagnosed than the rest of the population, early screening is advisable, so if you will, a baseline PSA at 35, and regular screenings at 40 to include a digital rectal exam (finger wave). The right thing  is to notify family members.

Many of us who  post here, are more aware now, and have changed our life style habits, "heart healthy is prostate healthy" Some experts advocate a Mediterranean ; others a vegetarian diet, along with a regular exercise program. I personally do not eat any dairy or  meat with the exception of fish such as salmon on occasion.

Best,

1 study found that cannabis

1 study found that cannabis extract killed some mouse prostatic cancer cells in a petri dish. To my knowledge there has as yet been no followup study done. Otherwise, I am aware of several cancer patients who died during cannabis oil treatments. It does not appear to be effective in killing cancer at this time, sorry.

Dmiehl

stoniphi said:

1 study found that cannabis

1 study found that cannabis extract killed some mouse prostatic cancer cells in a petri dish. To my knowledge there has as yet been no followup study done. Otherwise, I am aware of several cancer patients who died during cannabis oil treatments. It does not appear to be effective in killing cancer at this time, sorry.

Thank you for that

Thank you for that information.  It is hard to believe that of all the people that claim holistoc or alternative treatment is successful, not a single person will come forward and speak with me.

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3

Dmiehl said:

Thank you for that

Thank you for that information.  It is hard to believe that of all the people that claim holistoc or alternative treatment is successful, not a single person will come forward and speak with me.

Holistic

Dmiehl,

"Holistic" alternatives are also common online against lymphoma and leukemia.

I am all for healthy eating, but these things do not work generally against cancers. They are best avoided, or, if used, use with low expectations, and with the concent of an oncologist.  They absolutely are not curative.

My oncologist is Ivy-trained and has five (5) US Board Certifications (Hematology, Internal Medicine, Medical Oncology, Pallitative Care, and Geriatrics).

His advice when I began chemo ? Eat what you feel like eating. Because many chemos cause aneoxeria and extreme weight loss, many lymphoma patients develope various food adversions and fetishes, and have to take whatever calories they can get. Many, like me, loose (temporarily) all sense of taste. I survived two months on breakfast drinks and french fries. A friend who had stage 4 disease decades earlier said he had an adversion for four months to anything but pot pies. He was a football player at the time, and went from 250 to 110 pounds.  A next-door neighbor with stage 4 lymphoma six years ago went from 275 to 150.  

Times like those are no time for trendy nutritional concerns.   The holistic route does not work.

 

max

hopeful and optimistic

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3 said:

Holistic

Dmiehl,

"Holistic" alternatives are also common online against lymphoma and leukemia.

I am all for healthy eating, but these things do not work generally against cancers. They are best avoided, or, if used, use with low expectations, and with the concent of an oncologist.  They absolutely are not curative.

My oncologist is Ivy-trained and has five (5) US Board Certifications (Hematology, Internal Medicine, Medical Oncology, Pallitative Care, and Geriatrics).

His advice when I began chemo ? Eat what you feel like eating. Because many chemos cause aneoxeria and extreme weight loss, many lymphoma patients develope various food adversions and fetishes, and have to take whatever calories they can get. Many, like me, loose (temporarily) all sense of taste. I survived two months on breakfast drinks and french fries. A friend who had stage 4 disease decades earlier said he had an adversion for four months to anything but pot pies. He was a football player at the time, and went from 250 to 110 pounds.  A next-door neighbor with stage 4 lymphoma six years ago went from 275 to 150.  

Times like those are no time for trendy nutritional concerns.   The holistic route does not work.

 

max

Healthy eating should not be avoided.

 

 

Please be aware, that those with prostate cancers , believe it or not live longer than the rest of the population, since they are more aware, and eat heart healthy......(we are more likely to die from heart disease than prostate cancer) , and die less often from heart disease than the rest of the population... 

Heart healthy strategies to deter or change prostate cancers, even if not successful for prostate cancers will have a positive effect on ones health . ie heart disease, diabetics, etc. etc. so it is appropriate to recommend for prostate cancer whether or not it is effective.

But be aware. Studies have shown that life style  strategies  defer or reduce the seriousness of prostate cancer.

 Eating heart healthy does affect Prostate Cancers.  Here are numerous studies that you can read that come from pubmed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=does+diet+have+an+effect+on+prostate+cancer

Additonally a prominent physician Dean Ornish, did a study about prostate cancer and nutrition among those who were on active surveillance.....the small group of subjects ate a veggie diet, limited stress and did exercise for a year....their PSA's declined during this year.

There is a physician Mark A Moyad, MD MPH who writes regularly about effects of nutrition on prostate cancer....I suggest that one reads his articles and books.

There is a book , The China Study...T. Colin Campbell  that discuss nutrition and disease that is worth reading

Suggest a DVD FORKSoverKNIVES available at Net Flicks or the library.

 

stoniphi

hopeful and optimistic said:

Healthy eating should not be avoided.

 

 

Please be aware, that those with prostate cancers , believe it or not live longer than the rest of the population, since they are more aware, and eat heart healthy......(we are more likely to die from heart disease than prostate cancer) , and die less often from heart disease than the rest of the population... 

Heart healthy strategies to deter or change prostate cancers, even if not successful for prostate cancers will have a positive effect on ones health . ie heart disease, diabetics, etc. etc. so it is appropriate to recommend for prostate cancer whether or not it is effective.

But be aware. Studies have shown that life style  strategies  defer or reduce the seriousness of prostate cancer.

 Eating heart healthy does affect Prostate Cancers.  Here are numerous studies that you can read that come from pubmed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=does+diet+have+an+effect+on+prostate+cancer

Additonally a prominent physician Dean Ornish, did a study about prostate cancer and nutrition among those who were on active surveillance.....the small group of subjects ate a veggie diet, limited stress and did exercise for a year....their PSA's declined during this year.

There is a physician Mark A Moyad, MD MPH who writes regularly about effects of nutrition on prostate cancer....I suggest that one reads his articles and books.

There is a book , The China Study...T. Colin Campbell  that discuss nutrition and disease that is worth reading

Suggest a DVD FORKSoverKNIVES available at Net Flicks or the library.

 

A bit more on suppliments...

I should add that I use a couple of suppliments that seem to have some scientific basis. I take grape seed extract for resveritol, which is supposed to jam the mis-shapen nutrient intake ports in cancer cells and starve them. I take a tumeric/curcumin suppliment as that is supposed to prevent prostate cancer stem cells from becoming refractive. I also take a pomegranite extract suppliment as it has been shown to kill cancer cells in a petri dish like cannabis.

 

I must note that I eat very healthy and have done so for many years. I exercise for several hours daily including a daily 7 mile run, dropped to 6 miles a day for 2 years after surgery but back up to 7 now.

 

I must also note that I have an aquiantance who is head-over-heels over that Chinese study, claims that eating meat is the source of all of our problems and a strict vegan diet will cure cancer. I do not believe that, however. A well - balanced diet and a serious exercise program are a sound basis for anyone's life. There is no magic bullet against cancer yet.

 

A glass of good wine and/or a vaporizer bowl of fine cannabis make a fine adition to a good diet too, in my humble opinion at least.