touchy subject

0626june
0626june Member Posts: 73

6 months post-treatment and I'm plagued by bouts of diahrrea. They come with no warning so, as you can imagine, totally affect my activities. Anyone else had something similar?  Never thought I'd put so much thought into comparing panty-liners! I'm sure my diet contributes as I'm trying to re-boot my immune system with nutrition. Plenty of organic veggies.

any help?

June

Comments

  • nicotianna
    nicotianna Member Posts: 209
    touchy subject

    June - For me it depends on the veggies I eat.  It seems lettuce will cause this for me.  Probably keep a little diary to figure out the culprit/s.  I often go ahead & eat the veggies & stick close to the bathroom:)

    Nic

  • qv62
    qv62 Member Posts: 434 Member
    o626june

    Christmas Eve will be my 6 monyh mark and I don't leave home without an extra pair of underwear and baby wipes. I also eat lots of fruits and veggies but seem to have more accidents lately than I ddi earlier on. I feel the rumble but can't always make it to the restroom on time, especially at work, I am going back on the psyllium fiber to see if thst helps, I will let you know.

  • Ouch_Ouch_Ouch
    Ouch_Ouch_Ouch Member Posts: 508 Member
    A different tack.

    Increased fiber and fluids are good additions if what you are dealing with is constipated stool.

    However, for diarrhea, in addition to Immodium, please consider a low-residue or at least a low fiber diet. This will reduce the amount of fecal matter you have to pass, reduce the number of times a day you have to go, reduce the amount of fluids and electrolytes you are loosing to diarrhea, and will help your bowels to rest.

    These threads mention a low-residue diet:

    http://csn.cancer.org/node/255548
    http://csn.cancer.org/node/257428

    It's basically a white, cooked diet, so I'm sure you will miss your raw fruits and veggies. It doesn't need to be forever, though, just long enough to help your guts re-boot. Visit a Registered Dietician for help in achieving a balance. Here are several info sources; be sure to look at several as they each seem to stress different aspects of the diet:

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/patientinstructions/000200.htm
    http://www.webmd.com/ibd-crohns-disease/low-residue-diet-foods
    http://www.med.nyu.edu/content?ChunkIID=199396

    All the best luck!

  • Lorikat
    Lorikat Member Posts: 681 Member
    Three years out and same

    Three years out and same problems!  I know I cannot eat lettuce or other salad greens.  I order salads with no lettuce at my fav restaurants.  NO Milk products.  Unless I'm constipated and then a cup of coffee with cream soves THAT problem!  Just get out of my way as I head to the bathroom!  And yes, I still have accidents...  I carry what I call my diaper bag with extra everythings!  

    I have days when my guts cramp so bad I am bent over in pain and break out in cold sweat......not pleasant..  If I ask the Doc I get "exercise more", lose weight, watch your diet, etc......   Hummmmm...

     

  • TraceyUSA
    TraceyUSA Member Posts: 316
    Try a probiotic

    I'm almost 2 years post treatment and still have BM issues (mostly frequency and urgency).  Like Martha has said in the past, "radiation is the gift that keeps on giving!"  My radiology oncologist recommended a probiotic and I think it helps.   (I still carry and extra pair of underwear and pad in my purse everywhere I go but thankfully have not had to use them in quite some time.   Baby wipes will always be my friend.)

    I was on the low residue diet during treatment and when I finished up my dietician told me to reintroduce one food a day to see how my body reacted.  I am fortunate to have no issues with any foods and eat all the same things I did before treatment (lots of vegi's included.)   

    I also eat a greek yogurt every morning.

     

  • mp327
    mp327 Member Posts: 4,440 Member
    June

    Ah veggies--they can be both our friend and our foe.  Even at over 6 years out of treatment, I still have bouts of diarrhea or very loose stools, along with the occasional accident.  Most of the time I can trace those episodes back to what I've eaten.  I remember right after my treatment ended, I was trying so hard to get back on a healthy diet.  I ate lots of fresh fruits and veggies--the diarrhea was relentless.  For months I continued to eat the same foods with no let up of the bowel issues.  I finally cut way back on the produce and things drastically improved.  I would suggest that you try that and see if it helps.  If so, after a period of time, you can introduce those foods back into your diet in small amounts to see how it goes.  Also, my radiation oncologist told me there was no harm in taking a dose of Imodium daily to stay out of diarrhea mode. 

    I just think it takes some time for our intestinal tracts to recover after being so brutally traumatized.  I hope you find a healthy balance. 

  • mp327
    mp327 Member Posts: 4,440 Member
    TraceyUSA said:

    Try a probiotic

    I'm almost 2 years post treatment and still have BM issues (mostly frequency and urgency).  Like Martha has said in the past, "radiation is the gift that keeps on giving!"  My radiology oncologist recommended a probiotic and I think it helps.   (I still carry and extra pair of underwear and pad in my purse everywhere I go but thankfully have not had to use them in quite some time.   Baby wipes will always be my friend.)

    I was on the low residue diet during treatment and when I finished up my dietician told me to reintroduce one food a day to see how my body reacted.  I am fortunate to have no issues with any foods and eat all the same things I did before treatment (lots of vegi's included.)   

    I also eat a greek yogurt every morning.

     

    Low Residue Diet

    I had to follow a low residue diet for a few weeks after my hospitalization for a small bowel obstruction.  This type of diet allows the bowels to rest and output is much less in frequency and amount.  But like Ouch stated in her post, it is a diet that should only be followed for a certain amount of time and not be a permanent switch as to how we eat, as it lacks many nutrients that our body needs.  When re-introducing foods, I would suggest cooking all fruits and veggies.  I got really good at zapping apples and other fruits in the microwave with a little cinnamon.  Just cut them up in bite-size pieces into a pyrex measuring cup, cover, and zap for a couple of minutes.  They will be much easier on your system that way.  Unfortunately, it is common for some of us to have a lot of trouble with salads.  My husband was trying to lose some weight, so we were eating a lot of salads for awhile and my guts went simply wonky on me.  Cry  I am finding that greasy or fatty foods are not so kind to me anymore either.

    Like Tracey, I eat Greek yogurt every day--one in the morning and one in the evening.  Plain is the best (I like Fage) if you can stomach it.  Add a little honey or cooked fruit that has been cooled for flavor.  Be wary of all of the yummy flavored yogurt.  I used to enjoy Oikos, but realized it does not even list the type of yogurt cultures it contains.  The label just says that it contains yogurt cultures.  Also, it is marketed as a "Dairy Snack" as per its label.  Hmmmm.  Activia now has a Greek style and I have found that to be good and it does have the types of cultures it contains listed.

    I was taking Culturelle tablets, but noticed no difference in my bathroom habits, so as soon as I finish the supply I have, I will stop taking those.

    This is definitely a balancing act--what to eat, what not to eat, trying to get enough fluids and fiber (without getting too much).  We are all "Flying Wallendas" now, trying not to take that one wrong step. 

    Martha

  • Ouch_Ouch_Ouch
    Ouch_Ouch_Ouch Member Posts: 508 Member
    Lorikat said:

    Three years out and same

    Three years out and same problems!  I know I cannot eat lettuce or other salad greens.  I order salads with no lettuce at my fav restaurants.  NO Milk products.  Unless I'm constipated and then a cup of coffee with cream soves THAT problem!  Just get out of my way as I head to the bathroom!  And yes, I still have accidents...  I carry what I call my diaper bag with extra everythings!  

    I have days when my guts cramp so bad I am bent over in pain and break out in cold sweat......not pleasant..  If I ask the Doc I get "exercise more", lose weight, watch your diet, etc......   Hummmmm...

     

    Tummy troubles with cramping and loose poos.

    Have you seen a gastroenterologist about this problem?

    I visited the gastroenterologist last week to see if he had any suggestions on controlling my loose stools (I had irritable bowel syndrome, IBS, loooonnnggg before I had cancer and radiation). This is what he advised for me, though your mileage will vary due to your constipation:
    * He said to stay on the low-residue diet (it has helped reduced the shear volume I pass daily). For constipated stool, though, consider adding fiber.
    * He told me to add the over-the-counter probiotic called "Align". It has different bacteria than the other probiotics on the shelf.
    * He perscribed Levsin for times when I have hyperactive bowel cramping. It dissolves under the tongue and begins working to relax hyperactive gut muscles within minutes.
    * He advised daily psyllium (but it gives me cramps and watery stools).
    * If these measures don't work, he will perscribe a low-dose anti-depressant called Pamelor which will increase serotonin levels in muscle cells and thereby relax the gut. (This measure can increase your constipation, however.)

    For those who may also have IBS and closely related conditions:
    * I asked the gastro about the FODMAP diet, designed several years ago to mitigate the pain of IBS. It eliminates certain carbohydrates that are known to cause fermentation in the gut, draw large amounts of water from the intestines, and produce cramps, bloating, and bulky stools. After about 8 weeks or so, once the bowel problems are soothed, one begins to add foods back slowly to see which ones they can tolerate and which ones they are reacting to. He said of the patients he tried it on, it wasn't very successful, but he suspects compliance issues. Monash University in Australia is the place that began this line of research. They are frequently testing new foods to see if they are high-FODMAP and to be avoided or low-FODMAP and supply a free smart phone app for people to use.

    Regarding gluten and the rage for gluten-free diets in persons without celiac disease, one of the Monash University researches says this: "Thus, what the science tells us is that wheat can trigger symptoms, that it is the FODMAP content that causes most of the problem, and that gluten cannot currently be blamed as a major player in generating those problems."

    F = Fermentable
    O = oligo-saccharides,
    D = disaccharides,
    M = mono-saccharides,
    A = and
    P = polyols.

    http://www.med.monash.edu/cecs/gastro/fodmap/
    http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/072710p30.shtml
    http://www.med.monash.edu/cecs/gastro/education/2013-public-lecture.html

    Meshing a low-residue diet with the FODMAP diet isn't going to be easy for me, but I will try it.

  • Ouch_Ouch_Ouch
    Ouch_Ouch_Ouch Member Posts: 508 Member
    mp327 said:

    Low Residue Diet

    I had to follow a low residue diet for a few weeks after my hospitalization for a small bowel obstruction.  This type of diet allows the bowels to rest and output is much less in frequency and amount.  But like Ouch stated in her post, it is a diet that should only be followed for a certain amount of time and not be a permanent switch as to how we eat, as it lacks many nutrients that our body needs.  When re-introducing foods, I would suggest cooking all fruits and veggies.  I got really good at zapping apples and other fruits in the microwave with a little cinnamon.  Just cut them up in bite-size pieces into a pyrex measuring cup, cover, and zap for a couple of minutes.  They will be much easier on your system that way.  Unfortunately, it is common for some of us to have a lot of trouble with salads.  My husband was trying to lose some weight, so we were eating a lot of salads for awhile and my guts went simply wonky on me.  Cry  I am finding that greasy or fatty foods are not so kind to me anymore either.

    Like Tracey, I eat Greek yogurt every day--one in the morning and one in the evening.  Plain is the best (I like Fage) if you can stomach it.  Add a little honey or cooked fruit that has been cooled for flavor.  Be wary of all of the yummy flavored yogurt.  I used to enjoy Oikos, but realized it does not even list the type of yogurt cultures it contains.  The label just says that it contains yogurt cultures.  Also, it is marketed as a "Dairy Snack" as per its label.  Hmmmm.  Activia now has a Greek style and I have found that to be good and it does have the types of cultures it contains listed.

    I was taking Culturelle tablets, but noticed no difference in my bathroom habits, so as soon as I finish the supply I have, I will stop taking those.

    This is definitely a balancing act--what to eat, what not to eat, trying to get enough fluids and fiber (without getting too much).  We are all "Flying Wallendas" now, trying not to take that one wrong step. 

    Martha

    Not all Greek yogurts are real.

    "I used to enjoy Oikos, but realized it does not even list the type of yogurt cultures it contains."

    Unfortunately, the term "Greek yogurt" is unregulated in the USA. That means that companies can put the term on their label without having to comply with any standards. Oikos, by Dannon, isn't really Greek yogurt at all.

    Greek yogurt comes out natually thick and higher in protein than regular USA-style yogurt. A bunch of companies, including Dannon, use thickeners for make their yogurt appear thick: they use additives like carageenan, pectin, even corn starch. The tell is on the label - look at the ingredients. Real Greek yogurt will not have any thickeners. In addition, check the protein content. Real Greek yogurt will have a higher amount of protein per serving listed on the label than thickened, un-Greek yogurt. Compare Fage or even Chobani with Oikos.

    Get what you pay for - caveat emptor!

     

  • mp327
    mp327 Member Posts: 4,440 Member

    Not all Greek yogurts are real.

    "I used to enjoy Oikos, but realized it does not even list the type of yogurt cultures it contains."

    Unfortunately, the term "Greek yogurt" is unregulated in the USA. That means that companies can put the term on their label without having to comply with any standards. Oikos, by Dannon, isn't really Greek yogurt at all.

    Greek yogurt comes out natually thick and higher in protein than regular USA-style yogurt. A bunch of companies, including Dannon, use thickeners for make their yogurt appear thick: they use additives like carageenan, pectin, even corn starch. The tell is on the label - look at the ingredients. Real Greek yogurt will not have any thickeners. In addition, check the protein content. Real Greek yogurt will have a higher amount of protein per serving listed on the label than thickened, un-Greek yogurt. Compare Fage or even Chobani with Oikos.

    Get what you pay for - caveat emptor!

     

    Yogurt

    I agree!  Once again, the marketing geniuses with the yogurt companies continue to try passing off their products as real Greek yogurt, full of healthy things and America buys it!  While all of those flavors taste really good (my favorite is the lemon meringue, they do not contain much of anything that is going to help our gut.  As you stated, They are full of chemicals or additives to improve their consistency and taste.  I am a fan of Fage, which contains only milk and active yogurt cultures.  I add my own fruit, whatever is in season.  Currently, I have stocked up on cranberries and have a freezer full of the.  I cook them in a batch in the microwave and refrigerate.  Then I can add some to my morning yogurt, along with a little honey.  It's delicious!  Besides, cranberries have numerous health benefits of their own. 

    I must confess that my all-time favorite Greeks are Telly Savalas and John Stamos.  Wink  As for so-called "dairy snacks," I believe that 's what Haagen Dazs is for.  Smile