new here, well new to this board :(

scareddaughter24

Hi all,

 

I am usually posting on CRC board as my mum battled advacned bowel cancer for three years, she lost her battle in July this year.

My dad has just been diagnosed with prostate cancer,

 

PSA- 8.9

Gleason -7

 

CT clear,

Bone scan...Small spot on one side that they are going to scan to see what is going on....Does this seem strange???

We were originally told a less than 10% chance it could have gone anywhere else with these types of readings, now it seems we are going to be dealing with a bone met...

Has anyone had success with this???? or more knowledge....My poor family has had enough of this disease, he is only 50 years old

Any help much appreciated

Carla

Old Salt

Condolences, but there's hope for your Dad

Very sorry to read about your Mom and Dad. It's too early to tell what the future will hold for your Dad, but in the meantime, keep the faith.

A lot can be done these days to fight prostate cancer and from the information you have provided, it's quite possible that your Dad's prostate cancer can be controlled. Please provide us with more information about his biopsy results and the follow-up. There are others on this forum who are knowledgeable and who are likely to provide input. For instance, some will recommend a second reading of the biopsy samples by a specialist such as Dr. Epstein at Johns Hopkins.

Reading as much as you can digest will also be helpful towards mapping out the best treatment for your Dad. You will find that there often are many options in the treatment of prostate cancers and that it's important for the patient (and his family) to be involved in choosing the best option.

hopeful and optimistic

Dear Carla,

I am sorry for the loss that you have experienced.

There was a study done among Askenozi Jews at Albert Einstein Medical Center which showed some correlation between breast and prostate cancer so please do the screenings for breast cancer, managram , etc and eat heart healthy, Heart heathy is Breast Cancer and Prostate Cancer Healthy.

Blood relatives of your father, say one of your uncles are more likely to be diagnosed than the rest of the population, so please notify his relatives so they can be screened.

It is a good idea for your father to post directly at this site.

Now about the specifics of your fathers case.

In order to provide advise about your fathers case, more information is needed, specifically

In the biopsy that he had , how many cores were taken?

How many were positive.

The gleason score: you mentioned a gleason 7...there are two other numbers, so your fathers score can be a 4+3=7 or a 3+4-7, there is a difference--the first number is the most predomint finding in the core, a 4+3=7 is more serious than a 3+4=7

Of each of the core(s) that were positive what was the gleason number

For each core that was positive , what was the involvement, that is what percent of the core was cancerous (all this information is found in the pathology report...your father needs to have a copy of the report and all report that were done for him, so he can bring to other docs for consults.

 

What is the history of his PSA's

What did the digital rectal exam (finger wave) indicate?

What promted your father to get a biopsy?

................

The American Medical Association does not recommend a bone scan for patients with a Gleason under 8, since most times Gleasons underi 8, will not indicate metasis to the bones. the spot that they found can be anything, to include trama, degenerative conditions.

There is a much better test called a MRI with a Tesla 3.0 magnet (click my name to read about the details of the test) Basically this test may show if there is extracapsular extension, where suspicious lessions are in the prostate, and how extensive they are.

At any rate prostate cancer is slow growing and highly treatable.

It is important for your father to do research,read books , internet,  attend support group(s) ......USToo.com is an international organization . You can google to find a local chapter that your father, and if he wishes for you to attend. There are also other local  support group chapters available; Some are knowledge based , other emotional based.

.I mentioned a lot, but please get back to us...we can help

Best

Hopeful

 

scareddaughter24

hopeful and optimistic said:

Dear Carla,

I am sorry for the loss that you have experienced.

There was a study done among Askenozi Jews at Albert Einstein Medical Center which showed some correlation between breast and prostate cancer so please do the screenings for breast cancer, managram , etc and eat heart healthy, Heart heathy is Breast Cancer and Prostate Cancer Healthy.

Blood relatives of your father, say one of your uncles are more likely to be diagnosed than the rest of the population, so please notify his relatives so they can be screened.

It is a good idea for your father to post directly at this site.

Now about the specifics of your fathers case.

In order to provide advise about your fathers case, more information is needed, specifically

In the biopsy that he had , how many cores were taken?

How many were positive.

The gleason score: you mentioned a gleason 7...there are two other numbers, so your fathers score can be a 4+3=7 or a 3+4-7, there is a difference--the first number is the most predomint finding in the core, a 4+3=7 is more serious than a 3+4=7

Of each of the core(s) that were positive what was the gleason number

For each core that was positive , what was the involvement, that is what percent of the core was cancerous (all this information is found in the pathology report...your father needs to have a copy of the report and all report that were done for him, so he can bring to other docs for consults.

 

What is the history of his PSA's

What did the digital rectal exam (finger wave) indicate?

What promted your father to get a biopsy?

................

The American Medical Association does not recommend a bone scan for patients with a Gleason under 8, since most times Gleasons underi 8, will not indicate metasis to the bones. the spot that they found can be anything, to include trama, degenerative conditions.

There is a much better test called a MRI with a Tesla 3.0 magnet (click my name to read about the details of the test) Basically this test may show if there is extracapsular extension, where suspicious lessions are in the prostate, and how extensive they are.

At any rate prostate cancer is slow growing and highly treatable.

It is important for your father to do research,read books , internet,  attend support group(s) ......USToo.com is an international organization . You can google to find a local chapter that your father, and if he wishes for you to attend. There are also other local  support group chapters available; Some are knowledge based , other emotional based.

.I mentioned a lot, but please get back to us...we can help

Best

Hopeful

 

Thanks to all who have posted

Thanks to all who have posted so far,

I guess we will know more with the results from the MRI that look at the suspicious area on the bone, We were going in thinking we would be deciding between surgery or radiation.

 

It just seems so uncommon....even the doctor who gave the results said so, for it to be a 7 and psa of 8 to have gone to the bone, particularly given his age,

Hopefully this means is might be wrong and could be something else...fingers crossed but not too hopeful! The doctor even said if he were her paitent she wouldnt have even ordered the bone scan!

 

I have no records to look at regarding the report , I think 8/12 were positive and i am not sure whether we are a 3+4 or a 4+3

Will know more soon,

Thanks for positive words. Like the Colorectal board it is great to have this support,

Carla

 

hopeful and optimistic

scareddaughter24 said:

Thanks to all who have posted

Thanks to all who have posted so far,

I guess we will know more with the results from the MRI that look at the suspicious area on the bone, We were going in thinking we would be deciding between surgery or radiation.

 

It just seems so uncommon....even the doctor who gave the results said so, for it to be a 7 and psa of 8 to have gone to the bone, particularly given his age,

Hopefully this means is might be wrong and could be something else...fingers crossed but not too hopeful! The doctor even said if he were her paitent she wouldnt have even ordered the bone scan!

 

I have no records to look at regarding the report , I think 8/12 were positive and i am not sure whether we are a 3+4 or a 4+3

Will know more soon,

Thanks for positive words. Like the Colorectal board it is great to have this support,

Carla

 

Dear Carla,

The MRI looks at the prostate and close areas aroung the prostate, not the bone.

Too soon now for you to make a treatment decision, because you do not know where you stand. But a good idea to do some research.

We can review the results of the biopsy after you get a copy of the report from the docs office. Simply make a call, or if close enough , stop by.

Best,

 

scareddaughter24

hopeful and optimistic said:

Dear Carla,

The MRI looks at the prostate and close areas aroung the prostate, not the bone.

Too soon now for you to make a treatment decision, because you do not know where you stand. But a good idea to do some research.

We can review the results of the biopsy after you get a copy of the report from the docs office. Simply make a call, or if close enough , stop by.

Best,

 

so i wonder why they are

so i wonder why they are following the bone scan up with an MRI ...perhaps I have the wrong "scan" and it will be a CT?

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3

scareddaughter24 said:

so i wonder why they are

so i wonder why they are following the bone scan up with an MRI ...perhaps I have the wrong "scan" and it will be a CT?

Also new

Scared Daughter,

I too am brand new here, but not to cancer (like you, I am now a "double-boarder"). I do not even have a prostate biopsy report yet. My biopsy was few days ago, and I have over a week more to wait on that. 

I do not presume to know a lot here, but what the guys so far have been telling you is that it is very unlikely that your dad has prostate cancer in his bone marrow. It is not certain, but quite unlikely, given the limited information you have submitted thus far.  At this point try to not fixate on them ordering the MRI. The picture you have submitte thus far (whie incomplete) does not at all suggests widespread cancer.

Besides getting through Stage 3 lymphoma and needing a prostate biopsy, a lung doctor studying breathing problems that I have had for years found fibrosis in my lungs and a nodule that was not present on my last CT, five years ago.  He said it is very unlikely that it is cancer, and mentioned that all people, by the time they are 50 or so, have various "spots" show up on tests.  The difference in me and the average 58 year old walking the streets is just that THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SCANNED.  He said it is almost certinly benign, but protocol requires that it be scanned periodically for two years.  I told my family doc about it, and he said that the testing is ridiculous, but required by insurance companies and insurance lawyers, who dictate a large part of how medicine is run.  Like your doctor said, he would not even run the scan on himself ! 

The easiest way to know why the MRI was ordered is to call the doctor and ASK. Also, as one of the guys mentioned above, get a paper copy of his pathology report.  Your dad has already paid for it.

Wishing the two of you the easiest path possible,

max 

hopeful and optimistic

scareddaughter24 said:

so i wonder why they are

so i wonder why they are following the bone scan up with an MRI ...perhaps I have the wrong "scan" and it will be a CT?

dear Carla

There are various tests that are availalble

There are various types of diagnostic tests CT scans of the pelvis, different types of PET scans that measure outside the prostate, multiparametric MRI's which look at the prostate and close surrounding areas.

Generally the CT scan does not give much definition and in a study reported in a book that I recommend to all, A Primer on prostate cancer by stephen B. strum md and donna pogliano, among 244 men who presented with a gleason less than 7, a psa equal or less than 15, and a clinical stage lequal or less than T2b none showed incidence of abnormal pelvic ct scan based on these biological conditions.

 

However high Gleason scors man warrant a CT scan. To be honest there is a possibliity that  there is higher grade cancer that have not been detected.

Generally the MRI and PET scans offers the best picture, shows finer definition so one can know what is going on. The definition of the CT scan is less.

Best

VascodaGama

Secure proper diagnosis before anything

Carla

Please accept my condolences. Losing a mother is never easy, and more when they are young.

To add a comment to the ones you received above, I would like recommending you for not rushing in making a decision without having firstly secured proper diagnosis. This will lead to success of whatever treatment your dad chooses later.

I also was diagnosed with prostate cancer at 50 years old. This was 14 years ago, at a time when I could not be and feel healthier. Initially I did not believe in the diagnosis and thought it be a mistake. I thought that someone in the laboratory has mixed up my samples with the ones of another patient. The PSA was high at 22.4 (ng/ml) but all exams (DRE, CT, MRI, X-Rays, etc) were negative with the exception of a tinny spot on bone in the iliac, detected in a traditional bone scintigraphy scan. The biopsy of 6 needles (typical in those times) found cancer in all samples and it were voluminous. Latter they found that 2/3 of my prostate were cancerous.
The spot in bone is still there and it has never changed in shape and size along the many scans done up to date. We image it not to be cancerous.

Diagnosing metastases in bone or at the lymph nodes, in present days it is more accurate, if one does a multiparametric exam, such as the PET/CT or PET/MRI with F-Fluoride or F-choline contrast agents. The traditional bone scintigraphy (BS) or the single contrast-enhanced CT (CeCT) has low specificity which often erroneously diagnosis false negatives.

In your other post you question on the possibility of having bone metastases with negative lymph nodes. In my lay opinion this is possible to occur if we think on the way cancer cells “travel” in our systems. Traditionally, PCa cancer “visits” firstly the local lymph nodes and then it goes to far places settings in bone or organs (lungs, liver, etc) in a “friendly” environment where they manage to create a colony. This is not easy to accomplish and only fewer malignant cells manage to survive, spread and live in its newer “home”. The lymph nodes serve as a barrier filter to the entrance to our circulatory system, the transporter. It allows “free passage” only to what it considers natural and normal. Unfortunately some cancer cells seem natural and manage to “jump” on the wagon for the free ride. One should also consider that the results from the tests on lymph nodes may be a false negative due to CT’s low limitations in sensitivity and specificity.

Your parents surely appreciate your effort in their care. I would suggest you to investigate deeply in the matters of prostate cancer, its treatments, their risks and side effects, because they prejudice the quality of living. Your dad is too young and at the risk of losing what he takes today as granted. Try getting second opinions on every suggestion from his doctors.

It will be helpful to accompany him in his consultations, take notes and prepare a List of Questions, previously, to expose to the doctor. You may get ideas in these links;
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/prostate-cancer/basics/preparing-for-your-appointment/con-20029597

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/ProstateCancer/DetailedGuide/prostate-cancer-talking-with-doctor

http://www.cancer.net/patient/All+About+Cancer/Newly+Diagnosed/Questions+to+Ask+the+Doctor

 

Diet and a change in live tactics have a big role in the fight against cancer. Here is a copy regarding nutrition and PCa;

http://cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_prostate.pdf

Best wishes and luck in his journey.

VGama