Fluoride Trays & Toothpaste Help Request
I'm going to start chemo and radiation in a few weeks. I got a referral list of dentists in my area to go to for the fluoride trays From the hospital. What a mistake. The list is patient referrals. Not necessarily from the hospital.
I picked a dentist from the list who is near my home, called and explained my situation and got an appointment for the trays.
While I was there, it was suggested that wisdom teeth be removed prior to radiation. Went to an oral surgeon who removed one wisdom tooth he believed would be in the field. Done.
After I had them cast the trays, Dental assistant started telling me they rarely get cancer patients in their office. She started calling their dental supply rep who made some suggestions regarding the gel to use in the trays. finally, I settled on a product called DentiCare Pro-Gel 1.1% sodium fluoride for topical applications. I believe this is the correct product for the trays.
Then I asked what toothpaste to use. I called Colgate about prevident RX toothpaste and they thought that using both the fluoride and an RX toothpaste would be too much fluoride. Refer refer me back to this dentist who is completely clueless.
Can anyone help? I'm going to use the trays (oh yes, they have to remake them because they are not right) with the gel. What other toothpaste should I use? Can I just brush with my regular non-fluoride toothpaste, then use the trays? I want to get started ASAP before my treatment starts with approval from the oral surgeon. I'm determined to keep my teeth in the best shape possible.
Too late to change dentists now!
Thanks so much!!
BunnyMom
Comments
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My husband had radiation for
My husband had radiation for jaw cancer 2 years ago. He had trays made prior to treatment. The prosthedontist we use is a specialist in oral cancer and has recommended a toothpaste called Clinipro 5000. He also uses Prevident RX in his trays (I think that's the brand). The Clinipro didn't burn his mouth like the other toothpastes. He hasn't had any problems so far with using both products and hasn't had a cavity or any other dental issues since (knock on wood).
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To Tray or Not To Tray that is the Question
BunnyMom,
This is a subject that I have been very concerned about since my Sugery and Radiation treatments that ended in Jan 2005. I was given the instructions by the Cancer Dentist that I should use the Trays, which can cost a person roughly $400 for the set. I used a product called Perio-Check, 1.1 Stannous Fluoride for roughly 5 years in my trays. The Trays started to wear out more or less as they became stiff/ non flexable.
At the same time, I switched to another Dentist that stated as soon as he saw me that I was using the Perio-Check as my teeth were brownish. He switched me to the Colgate Previ-Dent 5000 Brush on Gel which is 1.1 Sodium Fluoride. I don't use the Trays and I brush with the Gel after eating as well.
What we need to do in order to try and save our teeth is this, at least once a day, apply the Fluoride and allow it to set on our teeth with or without the tray, whichever method we use. Then spit out any extra fluid we have in our mouth. Do Not Rinse Yet...Allow the Flouride to set another 30 minutes, then we can rinse our mouth out.
I have been conducting my own unofficial study on the Tray verse no Tray and so far the results have been the same, no cavities. First 5 years I used the Trays, I am now at 4 1/2 years without the Trays and using the Toothbrush to apply the Gel with the same results, no cavities.
So, I feel at least in my own little study, as long as we allow the Flouride to set for 30 minutes each day, we have a fighting chance to have minor problems. Allot has to also do with the number of Rad's we receive and the number of Treatments play a huge part in this as well. So far, I have been very good with not skipping days these 9 1/2 years, yes I have missed the Fluoride treatment a day here and there, but I get right back to it. I, like many want to keep our teeth.
My teeth according to the 1st Dentist were border line as to have all removed or keep them, I told him I would like to keep them and he said that it meant that I had to make that commitment to do the flouride daily.
I hope this all made sense and was helpful.
My Best to You and Everyone Here
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MarineE5MarineE5 said:To Tray or Not To Tray that is the Question
BunnyMom,
This is a subject that I have been very concerned about since my Sugery and Radiation treatments that ended in Jan 2005. I was given the instructions by the Cancer Dentist that I should use the Trays, which can cost a person roughly $400 for the set. I used a product called Perio-Check, 1.1 Stannous Fluoride for roughly 5 years in my trays. The Trays started to wear out more or less as they became stiff/ non flexable.
At the same time, I switched to another Dentist that stated as soon as he saw me that I was using the Perio-Check as my teeth were brownish. He switched me to the Colgate Previ-Dent 5000 Brush on Gel which is 1.1 Sodium Fluoride. I don't use the Trays and I brush with the Gel after eating as well.
What we need to do in order to try and save our teeth is this, at least once a day, apply the Fluoride and allow it to set on our teeth with or without the tray, whichever method we use. Then spit out any extra fluid we have in our mouth. Do Not Rinse Yet...Allow the Flouride to set another 30 minutes, then we can rinse our mouth out.
I have been conducting my own unofficial study on the Tray verse no Tray and so far the results have been the same, no cavities. First 5 years I used the Trays, I am now at 4 1/2 years without the Trays and using the Toothbrush to apply the Gel with the same results, no cavities.
So, I feel at least in my own little study, as long as we allow the Flouride to set for 30 minutes each day, we have a fighting chance to have minor problems. Allot has to also do with the number of Rad's we receive and the number of Treatments play a huge part in this as well. So far, I have been very good with not skipping days these 9 1/2 years, yes I have missed the Fluoride treatment a day here and there, but I get right back to it. I, like many want to keep our teeth.
My teeth according to the 1st Dentist were border line as to have all removed or keep them, I told him I would like to keep them and he said that it meant that I had to make that commitment to do the flouride daily.
I hope this all made sense and was helpful.
My Best to You and Everyone Here
Thank you so much for your post. My experience in trying to find a dentist who knows what they are talking about has been an exercise in frustration.
I really appreciate what you have done to help save your teeth and for your post detailing your experience. It will help me and others as well.
I am getting the trays even though they have to remake them because they don't hit the gum line correctly. I did see that Colgate Prevident makes a Gel that can be brushed on. Since I'm already committed to the trays ($180) so I guess that's a deal compared to your cost, I use them and see how long they last.
What I'm thinking I need to do is to brush and floss with my regular toothpaste, then apply the gel like you said including the wait times. My teeth are in very good condition now and I've worked hard to keep them that way. I hate to suffer problems down the road. I know that at least some of this is within my control with disipline, conscientious brushing and daily application of the gel. I already brush a couple of times a day so I don't see it being a problem.
Thanks for your insight and response.
BunnyMom
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Great Newstraceyd1 said:My husband had radiation for
My husband had radiation for jaw cancer 2 years ago. He had trays made prior to treatment. The prosthedontist we use is a specialist in oral cancer and has recommended a toothpaste called Clinipro 5000. He also uses Prevident RX in his trays (I think that's the brand). The Clinipro didn't burn his mouth like the other toothpastes. He hasn't had any problems so far with using both products and hasn't had a cavity or any other dental issues since (knock on wood).
Taceyyd1
Thank you so much for your post and the information concerning your husband. It is very helpful to know this is working for him.
BunnyMom
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You are CorrectBunnymom said:MarineE5
Thank you so much for your post. My experience in trying to find a dentist who knows what they are talking about has been an exercise in frustration.
I really appreciate what you have done to help save your teeth and for your post detailing your experience. It will help me and others as well.
I am getting the trays even though they have to remake them because they don't hit the gum line correctly. I did see that Colgate Prevident makes a Gel that can be brushed on. Since I'm already committed to the trays ($180) so I guess that's a deal compared to your cost, I use them and see how long they last.
What I'm thinking I need to do is to brush and floss with my regular toothpaste, then apply the gel like you said including the wait times. My teeth are in very good condition now and I've worked hard to keep them that way. I hate to suffer problems down the road. I know that at least some of this is within my control with disipline, conscientious brushing and daily application of the gel. I already brush a couple of times a day so I don't see it being a problem.
Thanks for your insight and response.
BunnyMom
BunnyMom,
You are correct when you state that you continue to do your routine with the regular brushing and flossing. The trays at first seemed to be an issue with me as far as the time of day I thought I had to use them, then I realized that for me it was just before I took my daily shower no matter what time of the day it was. I would use the trays just before getting in the shower which normally takes 10 minutes anyway, so time management worked for me here
I was instructed to use one drop of Fluoride for each tooth spot in the trays as any more then that would be a waste of fluoride. If the flouride is squeezing out allot on to your gums and overflowing per say. You may be using too much which was my case for awhile and I questioned my Dentist as how much I should be using.
It was many years ago and I think it was on this site that another person posted that his trays had basically done the same as mine. Anyway, he mentioned instead of paying the $400 again, he went to a sports store and bought the mouth guards there, took them home put them in fairly warm water so they would fit to his teeth. He used them as his trays and didn't pay that large some of money. I had thought about it, but decided on doing this little experiment on myself to give a report when I reached the 10 year mark so I had equal time with both methods.
My Best to You and Everyone Here
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UKMarineE5 said:You are Correct
BunnyMom,
You are correct when you state that you continue to do your routine with the regular brushing and flossing. The trays at first seemed to be an issue with me as far as the time of day I thought I had to use them, then I realized that for me it was just before I took my daily shower no matter what time of the day it was. I would use the trays just before getting in the shower which normally takes 10 minutes anyway, so time management worked for me here
I was instructed to use one drop of Fluoride for each tooth spot in the trays as any more then that would be a waste of fluoride. If the flouride is squeezing out allot on to your gums and overflowing per say. You may be using too much which was my case for awhile and I questioned my Dentist as how much I should be using.
It was many years ago and I think it was on this site that another person posted that his trays had basically done the same as mine. Anyway, he mentioned instead of paying the $400 again, he went to a sports store and bought the mouth guards there, took them home put them in fairly warm water so they would fit to his teeth. He used them as his trays and didn't pay that large some of money. I had thought about it, but decided on doing this little experiment on myself to give a report when I reached the 10 year mark so I had equal time with both methods.
My Best to You and Everyone Here
IN UK it it recomended that specialist flueride toothpaste is used morning and evening. In addition normal brushing after each meal and dental check up each 3 months. Regards. G.
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Hi Bunny
I don’t use the tray I use only the Colgate tooth paste I get from my dentist. I use it twice a day in the morning and at night I also brush with Sensodyne & Oregano oil right before and I have never had a problem. I agree that you should get all your wisdom teeth removed as in my case I have problems opening my jaw and that makes getting to all my teeth a big problem.
Hondo
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i use
i wish anyone who has to go thru head and neck radiation would consider having the two back teeth on the bottom both sides and same for the top. I also believe this should be a recomendation from the doctors and dentist. most all who i know locally have had problems with those teeth post radiation.
my new experience dentist told me many years ago to ditch the trays. he said the trays work on the teeth above the gum lines. the biggest problem is the teeth at the gum lines and below. he told me to use a sonic care tooth brush, with tooth tooth paste with focus on gum line, floss and floss more, then us flouride on sonic care tooth brush to apply and do not rinse for 30 min. after doing that i have had no new problems just the problems before where the fillings fall abart and have to be replaced. i believe if i had started this way i would not have the problems i have today.
with the above method i have since added a waterpic to the cleanings. i use the warmest warm i can stand. i figure if dishwashers us hot water to clean then i should also. :-). since i have done this the last 5 years ago the hygenists says my mouth is very clean. on top of that my mouth does not feel as dry and sore. keep in mind that with the mouth sore you will get that i suggest not using the waterpic until several months post treatment.
find a dentist that has alot of experience with radiation treatment. i believe this to be a must just like finding the experienced doctors.
i used to use bioteen toothpaste until they sold the company and the new company changed the mix and now it burns my mouth. i now use sensodyne pronamel.
john
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NHSfisrpotpe said:i use
i wish anyone who has to go thru head and neck radiation would consider having the two back teeth on the bottom both sides and same for the top. I also believe this should be a recomendation from the doctors and dentist. most all who i know locally have had problems with those teeth post radiation.
my new experience dentist told me many years ago to ditch the trays. he said the trays work on the teeth above the gum lines. the biggest problem is the teeth at the gum lines and below. he told me to use a sonic care tooth brush, with tooth tooth paste with focus on gum line, floss and floss more, then us flouride on sonic care tooth brush to apply and do not rinse for 30 min. after doing that i have had no new problems just the problems before where the fillings fall abart and have to be replaced. i believe if i had started this way i would not have the problems i have today.
with the above method i have since added a waterpic to the cleanings. i use the warmest warm i can stand. i figure if dishwashers us hot water to clean then i should also. :-). since i have done this the last 5 years ago the hygenists says my mouth is very clean. on top of that my mouth does not feel as dry and sore. keep in mind that with the mouth sore you will get that i suggest not using the waterpic until several months post treatment.
find a dentist that has alot of experience with radiation treatment. i believe this to be a must just like finding the experienced doctors.
i used to use bioteen toothpaste until they sold the company and the new company changed the mix and now it burns my mouth. i now use sensodyne pronamel.
john
provide a high flueride one free for life and recomend you leave it on 30 min. You cant buy it in shops but will post its name. Whats a waterpic John? Regards, G.
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WaterpicGuzzle said:NHS
provide a high flueride one free for life and recomend you leave it on 30 min. You cant buy it in shops but will post its name. Whats a waterpic John? Regards, G.
it's like a small garden hose with wand that you can use to spray and clean between teeth and gums. it is amazing what i seem come out of my mouth after using it.
it's actually spelle Waterpik, here is the one i have
or you can google it.
i got mine at walgreens but alot ot the stores have them.
I love mine.
john
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Alternative
When the rads started to destroy my mouth, I went to the biotene toothpaste. It was the only thing that didn't burn the heck out of me. Unfortunately, Biotene changed their formulas for the sake of the almighty dollar and some of the beneficial ingrediants have been removed. However, for something with flouride and no burn, it's still good. Rather then trays, my dentists suggested a flouride rinse. The kids Listerine Smart Rinse Bubble Gum. I've been rinsing twice a day since before treatment. No burn and thus far, my teeth are doing well. Flossing and the use of the cleaning brushes for between my teeth has kept things pointed in the right direction. I go every three months for a check and cleaning. My dentist is pleased.
Positive thoughts and prayers
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Colgate Duraphat 5000fishmanpa said:Alternative
When the rads started to destroy my mouth, I went to the biotene toothpaste. It was the only thing that didn't burn the heck out of me. Unfortunately, Biotene changed their formulas for the sake of the almighty dollar and some of the beneficial ingrediants have been removed. However, for something with flouride and no burn, it's still good. Rather then trays, my dentists suggested a flouride rinse. The kids Listerine Smart Rinse Bubble Gum. I've been rinsing twice a day since before treatment. No burn and thus far, my teeth are doing well. Flossing and the use of the cleaning brushes for between my teeth has kept things pointed in the right direction. I go every three months for a check and cleaning. My dentist is pleased.
Positive thoughts and prayers
Is the one used in UK. They also give small red dissolvable tablets which dentists use to rinse. Neither product appears to burn the mouth. Regards,G.
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Ditto!fisrpotpe said:i use
i wish anyone who has to go thru head and neck radiation would consider having the two back teeth on the bottom both sides and same for the top. I also believe this should be a recomendation from the doctors and dentist. most all who i know locally have had problems with those teeth post radiation.
my new experience dentist told me many years ago to ditch the trays. he said the trays work on the teeth above the gum lines. the biggest problem is the teeth at the gum lines and below. he told me to use a sonic care tooth brush, with tooth tooth paste with focus on gum line, floss and floss more, then us flouride on sonic care tooth brush to apply and do not rinse for 30 min. after doing that i have had no new problems just the problems before where the fillings fall abart and have to be replaced. i believe if i had started this way i would not have the problems i have today.
with the above method i have since added a waterpic to the cleanings. i use the warmest warm i can stand. i figure if dishwashers us hot water to clean then i should also. :-). since i have done this the last 5 years ago the hygenists says my mouth is very clean. on top of that my mouth does not feel as dry and sore. keep in mind that with the mouth sore you will get that i suggest not using the waterpic until several months post treatment.
find a dentist that has alot of experience with radiation treatment. i believe this to be a must just like finding the experienced doctors.
i used to use bioteen toothpaste until they sold the company and the new company changed the mix and now it burns my mouth. i now use sensodyne pronamel.
john
Trays and flouride. Based on my continuous reading here over time those reporting serious teeth issues are nearly always root and jawbone (sub gumline) related. Rarely, if ever, do I read posts that a surface cavity or even a root issue could not be adquately addressed with standard procedures (i.e. filling or a root canal and crown).
There are a fair number of posts about HBOT before teeth being removed in order to minimize the damage to the jawbone and ORN related issues. It is a bit unclear why those teeth are being extracted. Is it because of too many cavitites, not using floride? I think not. More likely, the tooth is too far gone, a root canal and crown did not hold, the tooth split, or some other major mechanical reason, not because of surface tooth decay that floride is targeted to help.
In consulation with my dentists (4 different ones consulted the past year), it is clear to me that if any teeth I have get to the point of potential extraction, we are going to evaluate alternative treatments such as grinding tooth to gum level and other such options to eliminate any potential interaction with the jawbone. If a tooth were to split down the root, I don't know if this would work and an extraction is the only option left. I'm still relatively new to the longer term post tx side effects.
Ditto John on using a Waterpik. In fact, I believe so strongly in them a daily session with a Waterpik is the most essential and beneficial thing to do. The Waterpik does an AMAZING job at clearing out all food debris and particulates that are the source of many dental issues, from cavities to plaque to gum disease, etc. I'm not a medical professional in any capaicty but it just seems like common sense that if you eliminate this junk, your teeth have the best long term environment to remain healthy.
Flossing a distant second choice. It does clear out food particles but the mechanics of flossing are not nearly as good as a strong jet of water that covers so much more area in addition to rinsing all the nasty bacteria sized stuff too. Floss is just not capable of doing as thorough a job. You can add bacteria fighting solution to the Waterpik if you want extra bacterial removal.
Like everything related to cancer, each of us is unique so we need to evaluate our own situation. In my case, my saliva is back 100% and I experience zero dry mouth that means I'm blessed to not suffer any deficiency of one's natural oral cleansing processes. For those with varying levels of compromised saliva production, trays and floride could very well make a real difference.
Best, Don
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So Many Different ViewsGuzzle said:Colgate Duraphat 5000
Is the one used in UK. They also give small red dissolvable tablets which dentists use to rinse. Neither product appears to burn the mouth. Regards,G.
All good stuff so far. Let me give you my experience.
Lucky for me, when I was first diagnosed by my ENT, she sent me to a team of doctors for treatment. The include my surgeon who removed the BOT cancer and performed a radical neck dissection, a radiation Oncologist who saw me through that nightmare with the proper pain meds, and finally an Oral Surgeon who I was to see before rads. He looked at my teeth and said they were perfect and pulled not a one. The reason for that is simple. 24 years ago I had gum disease and was told to either floss everyday or I'd lose my teeth before hitting 50. At 57 I had only lost one back molar.
My oral surgeon see's hundred's of oral cancer patients. He got me some trays made and sells me the flouride toothpaste from the office at a reduced rate. It is Colgate Gel-Kam .04% Stable Stannous Flouride. Yes, it leave stains on your teeth, it is no problem for my dental hygenist to remove it when cleaning them. I put the flouride in the trays and it stays in my mouth for 5 minutes. I asked about the time thing and was told that after 5 minutes it does no more good. Spit it out several times and go to bed.
If I could use the WaterPic I would but my gum loss is so bad that the sensitivity is way too high. So flossing is the only thing I use right now. After reading the above responses though, I may try again to use a Water Pic with warm water to better get the plaque out.
My routine is this: floss, proxy brush, brush my teeth with Colgate Sensitive Pro-Relief toothpaste, (recommended in my case) and then do the trays. All in all it takes about 15-20 minutes of work but my teeth and gums are healthy.
Flossing only needs to be done once per day, just before bed is best. The reason is because it takes your mouth roughly 24 hours for the plaque to harden and become tartar. Or vice versa, I forget.
All this I learned from my cancer oral surgeon and Periodontist. We are all a little different. I do suggest you to find a dentist who is familar with treating oral cancer patients. Everyone is correct, the cavities appear on the gum line.
Tom
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I tried the Preventident
my dentist said to leave the gel on the teeth overnight and did not think I needed trays. I did that until it seemed to make my gums hurt and I had mouth sores, so just used Biotene toothpaste and brushed 2-3X a day, rinsed with baking soda/salt and water and used the water pick on the low setting to massage the gums and get food out. So far it seems to have worked.
Good luck,
PJ
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Forgot to sayPJ47 said:I tried the Preventident
my dentist said to leave the gel on the teeth overnight and did not think I needed trays. I did that until it seemed to make my gums hurt and I had mouth sores, so just used Biotene toothpaste and brushed 2-3X a day, rinsed with baking soda/salt and water and used the water pick on the low setting to massage the gums and get food out. So far it seems to have worked.
Good luck,
PJ
my dentist gave me several in office flouride treatments before during and after treatment and was very supportive and did not charge me for them! He also did an extra cleaning!
PJ
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