Glucose restriction to starve cancer - an update

Options
peterz54
peterz54 Member Posts: 341
edited July 2014 in Colorectal Cancer #1

when my wife Patricia was ill I had learned of evidence which strongly suggested that dramatic reductiion in glucose levels could starve cancer cells which rely more heavily on glucose than most normal cells (which is why your cancer lights up on a PET scan - the  radiaoctive glucose which you take is taken up preferentially by the tumors).  In the glucose starved state the cancer cells also seemed more succeptable to chemo.  At the time, it appeared that the only way to do this was to fast for several days prior to treatment.   Last I heard this technique was moving towards clinical trials.  Dr Valter Longo discusses the potential of fasting in this short interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGafhm1cuSI

a July 18th edit:   Here is a fairly detailed 2013 lecture by Dr Longo.   The part most relavent to cancer starts at 23 minutes in.   He also mentions several planned clinical trials which combine a form of fasting using very low calorie foods for 3 to 4 days to assess the effect on various cancers.   

http://fasten.tv/en/vortraege/longo

 

Since then I have become aware of the work of Thomas Seyfried, a professor of biology at Boston College, and a researcher who has done a lot of work to unravel the glucose connection to cancer.  His work is beginning to be put to the test.   Instead of fasting though, which is difficult to some patients, he advocates a ketogenic diet, which is very low in quality carbs, modest in protein, and high in quality fats.  Doing this in a low calorie way, in his opinion, makes sense as most people would find it difficult to fast completely for several days each chemo cycle, or, as was the case with my wife, simply cannot do without nutrition for that long.

Now, I've hear of the work of Dr  D'Agostino who's research uncovered what appears to be an enhancement to Dr Seyfried's approach, and that is the use of hyperbaric oxygen.  Here's a short video in which Dr D'Agostino walks through the basics of this.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fM9o72ykww

Here is a presentation by Dr Seyfried for those who want a technical explanation.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBjnWfT8HbQ 

More on Dr Seyfried   http://www.bc.edu/content/bc/schools/cas/biology/facadmin/seyfried.html

peter

 

 

 

        

 

«1

Comments

  • Lisa2012
    Lisa2012 Member Posts: 142
    Options
    Thanks

    Peter thank you for posting this.   The topic is of interest.  I am diabetic so sugar is an enemy in more ways than one.  

    Lisa

  • gfpiv
    gfpiv Member Posts: 59 Member
    Options
    My two cents:  Based on all I

    My two cents:  Based on all I have read and learned, the sugar/glucose connection to cancer is simply based upon controlling blood glucose spikes in the blood, which result in the body releasing insulin to control these spikes.  Insulin contains IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor), which causes increased growth in cells in the body, both good (normal) and bad (cancerous).  

    IMO it's not about doing away with all sugars entirely, it's about controlling blood glucose spikes.  Among other things, this can be done by adding fiber, healthy fats and protein (which all slow digestion), eating more smaller meals, and exercising regularly.  

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402
    Options
    Pi3k

    Ive talked with Seyfreid and D.Agostino, in principle its a great idea yet both of them seem to be unaware of the Pi3k mutation which makes cancer unresponsive to diet restriction, also the human equivlent of ketogenic diet in mouse models is fasting. Hyperbaric is a great way to target hypoxia and is highly underated IMHO.

  • Helen321
    Helen321 Member Posts: 1,459 Member
    Options
    I have to read up on this.

    I have to read up on this.  My curiousity is does sugar spike play a role in recurrence when no cancer is present?  I have a very serious sugar addiction, I've had it since I was a child, kicked it for a few years and then one tootsie roll and it was all over.  Similar to alcohol, the more you have, the more you want.  I am NED and I want to stay that way so beating my addiction has become a priority although I have not researched enough.  My doctor says sugar is not a concern but I'm not sure I agree.   I would hate to flip that one cell that encourages the others to start flipping as well all because of sugar.

  • Trubrit
    Trubrit Member Posts: 5,800 Member
    Options
    Helen321 said:

    I have to read up on this.

    I have to read up on this.  My curiousity is does sugar spike play a role in recurrence when no cancer is present?  I have a very serious sugar addiction, I've had it since I was a child, kicked it for a few years and then one tootsie roll and it was all over.  Similar to alcohol, the more you have, the more you want.  I am NED and I want to stay that way so beating my addiction has become a priority although I have not researched enough.  My doctor says sugar is not a concern but I'm not sure I agree.   I would hate to flip that one cell that encourages the others to start flipping as well all because of sugar.

    Sugar

    My Oncologist also said that sugars are of no concern, but my gut tells me different, and sometimes, those basic instincts are what should be followed.

    I could never cut out sugar, but I certainly can cut down. 

    I have done a little research over these months since my diagnosis, and again, my gut tells me that I don't need to follow any restricted diet, but use wisdom in all areas. 

    Works for me, but may not work for others. 

  • gfpiv
    gfpiv Member Posts: 59 Member
    Options
    Helen321 said:

    I have to read up on this.

    I have to read up on this.  My curiousity is does sugar spike play a role in recurrence when no cancer is present?  I have a very serious sugar addiction, I've had it since I was a child, kicked it for a few years and then one tootsie roll and it was all over.  Similar to alcohol, the more you have, the more you want.  I am NED and I want to stay that way so beating my addiction has become a priority although I have not researched enough.  My doctor says sugar is not a concern but I'm not sure I agree.   I would hate to flip that one cell that encourages the others to start flipping as well all because of sugar.

    I'm sure we could all benefit

    I'm sure we could all benefit from eating a little healthier; it's probably a given that most of us eat more sugar than we need to.  That said, I haven't heard any evidence that sugar can actually cause cancer to appear in an otherwise healthy person.  But Helen, that's a great question...I have no idea if, or to what extent, insulin/IGF-1 spikes are detrimental for folks that are NED or in remission from cancer but may well have microscopic cancer cells in their body still.  

  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
    Options

    Pi3k

    Ive talked with Seyfreid and D.Agostino, in principle its a great idea yet both of them seem to be unaware of the Pi3k mutation which makes cancer unresponsive to diet restriction, also the human equivlent of ketogenic diet in mouse models is fasting. Hyperbaric is a great way to target hypoxia and is highly underated IMHO.

    asa?

    Great to see you Tony.  So one might infer 81 mg aspirin + ketogenic diet as a possible improvement for patients with PI3K overexpressed?

    (81 mg is 1/4 of standard 325 mg aspirin tablet in the US)

  • lp1964
    lp1964 Member Posts: 1,239 Member
    Options
    The cells can make sugar...

    ...out of everything: your own fat, your own muscles, whole wheat, meat, vegetables, everything. If you don't supply it, it will turn whatever into glucose, which is the fuel of every cell in the world. Having said that, we eat way too much carbs.

    Laz

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402
    Options
    tanstaafl said:

    asa?

    Great to see you Tony.  So one might infer 81 mg aspirin + ketogenic diet as a possible improvement for patients with PI3K overexpressed?

    (81 mg is 1/4 of standard 325 mg aspirin tablet in the US)

    Hi Tans

    Google alert brought me here Laughing you are correct about the asprin, however it seems eventually the cells will mutate to run off lactate, phenybutrate can block that if it occurs. Quite a few articles on Pi3k and CRC with asprin.

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402
    Options
    lp1964 said:

    The cells can make sugar...

    ...out of everything: your own fat, your own muscles, whole wheat, meat, vegetables, everything. If you don't supply it, it will turn whatever into glucose, which is the fuel of every cell in the world. Having said that, we eat way too much carbs.

    Laz

    True, but still...

    "Preliminary data demonstrate that an insulin-inhibiting diet is safe and feasible in selected patients with advanced cancer. The extent of ketosis, but not calorie deficit or weight loss, correlated with stable disease or partial remission"

     

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22840388

  • lp1964
    lp1964 Member Posts: 1,239 Member
    Options

    True, but still...

    "Preliminary data demonstrate that an insulin-inhibiting diet is safe and feasible in selected patients with advanced cancer. The extent of ketosis, but not calorie deficit or weight loss, correlated with stable disease or partial remission"

     

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22840388

    Ok, I understand now.

    I think we have to be concerned about the blood sugar spikes, not necessarily the sugar in the cells. Blood sugar spikes induce insulin spikes that contain the IGF-1 that promotes cell growth as one member said it above.

    Good to know.

    Laz

  • schnauzerheads
    schnauzerheads Member Posts: 53 Member
    Options
    Thank you...

    ...for sharing this... There's never too much information, it's nice to see links like this on the site.

    Kevin

  • peterz54
    peterz54 Member Posts: 341
    Options

    Thank you...

    ...for sharing this... There's never too much information, it's nice to see links like this on the site.

    Kevin

    you're welcome

    I hope I did not give the impression that I though that glucose control or fasting were magic bullets.  Trials are moving a lot slower than I would prefer, which is usually the case unless it's a drug with multi-billion dollar potential, such as Avastin.    There have been trials that point to a number of lifestyle changes as being beneficial, maybe at least as much as indvidual chemo drugs, these being exercise, a good diet, sleep, and stress control, all of which are vital.  

    It's also been shown, in a lung cancer trial I believe, that having a good medical team which addresses symtoms/side effects immediately as they arise also makes a large difference.  

    Of course, in all of this is patient participation assuming he or she is well enough or has a loved one who can help guide the process beyond blind obedience to whatever the oncologist directs, which in my experience falls woefully short.     

    peter

  • YoVita
    YoVita Member Posts: 590 Member
    Options
    peterz54 said:

    you're welcome

    I hope I did not give the impression that I though that glucose control or fasting were magic bullets.  Trials are moving a lot slower than I would prefer, which is usually the case unless it's a drug with multi-billion dollar potential, such as Avastin.    There have been trials that point to a number of lifestyle changes as being beneficial, maybe at least as much as indvidual chemo drugs, these being exercise, a good diet, sleep, and stress control, all of which are vital.  

    It's also been shown, in a lung cancer trial I believe, that having a good medical team which addresses symtoms/side effects immediately as they arise also makes a large difference.  

    Of course, in all of this is patient participation assuming he or she is well enough or has a loved one who can help guide the process beyond blind obedience to whatever the oncologist directs, which in my experience falls woefully short.     

    peter

    Good to see you, Peter

    You've always posted informative, scientific-based topics and links.  I myself have found the lifestyle change articles to be persuasive (plus what's the harm in trying to live a more healthful life?).  In fact, I recently took early retirement (I'm lucky to be able to do that) so I could focus on health, diet, exercise and decreased stress.  I hope you have found some peace.   

  • peterz54
    peterz54 Member Posts: 341
    Options
    Update on Clinical Trial

    I asked Dr Tan, of the VA hospital in Pittsburg, about the status of  clinical trial she is to lead involving advanced cancer patients and testing a ketogenic diet.   She said the trial should finish recruiting by the end of this year.

    In the VA piece about this she indicates that it is her opinion that sugar, while not causing cancer, feeds the cancer once it develops.   Recommend reading this VA piece about her, her remarks, and the trial.

    http://www.pittsburgh.va.gov/features/jocelyn-tan.asp

     

    peter

     

  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member
    Options
    tanstaafl said:

    asa?

    Great to see you Tony.  So one might infer 81 mg aspirin + ketogenic diet as a possible improvement for patients with PI3K overexpressed?

    (81 mg is 1/4 of standard 325 mg aspirin tablet in the US)

    Not doing much for Pete

    All the glucose and ketogenic diets is stuff Pete is doing or has done and didn't seem to make any difference.   His CEA is way way higher then mine(his is 44 mine is 8.1) and he is having side effects from the ketogenic diet. 

    A lot of hassle for little if any benefits. 

    All though a little sugar cut back never hurt anyone, it isn't something I'm going to go crazy over.

    Winter Marie

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402
    Options
    peterz54 said:

    Update on Clinical Trial

    I asked Dr Tan, of the VA hospital in Pittsburg, about the status of  clinical trial she is to lead involving advanced cancer patients and testing a ketogenic diet.   She said the trial should finish recruiting by the end of this year.

    In the VA piece about this she indicates that it is her opinion that sugar, while not causing cancer, feeds the cancer once it develops.   Recommend reading this VA piece about her, her remarks, and the trial.

    http://www.pittsburgh.va.gov/features/jocelyn-tan.asp

     

    peter

     

    Interesting read

    she is one of the pioneers, the tide is slowly turning and hopefully one day oncologists will do nutrition as well as chemicals, still as I pointed out above genetic testing for Pi3k mutation seems essential to see who this will benefit (or not).

    We have just done 3 months Hyperbaric, the head doctor wanted ketogenic diet with it, we said absolutley not, sugar was limited though, multiple tumours have shrank against all expectation, just started another 3 months Hyperbaric.

     

  • annalexandria
    annalexandria Member Posts: 2,571 Member
    Options

    Interesting read

    she is one of the pioneers, the tide is slowly turning and hopefully one day oncologists will do nutrition as well as chemicals, still as I pointed out above genetic testing for Pi3k mutation seems essential to see who this will benefit (or not).

    We have just done 3 months Hyperbaric, the head doctor wanted ketogenic diet with it, we said absolutley not, sugar was limited though, multiple tumours have shrank against all expectation, just started another 3 months Hyperbaric.

     

    That's great news, Tony...

    very glad to hear that you guys have gotten some positive results.

  • janderson1964
    janderson1964 Member Posts: 2,215 Member
    Options

    Interesting read

    she is one of the pioneers, the tide is slowly turning and hopefully one day oncologists will do nutrition as well as chemicals, still as I pointed out above genetic testing for Pi3k mutation seems essential to see who this will benefit (or not).

    We have just done 3 months Hyperbaric, the head doctor wanted ketogenic diet with it, we said absolutley not, sugar was limited though, multiple tumours have shrank against all expectation, just started another 3 months Hyperbaric.

     

    That is great news Tony. I am

    That is great news Tony. I am truly happy for your family.

  • peterz54
    peterz54 Member Posts: 341
    Options
    Dr Longo's 2013 lecture - fasting & cancer

     

    Here's a link to a June 2013 lecture by Dr Valter Longo which includes discussion of the mechanisms by which fasting helps to slow cancer growth and to make cancer cells more susceptable to chemo while strenthening normal cells, resulting in more effective treatment and milder side effects.  He mentions several institutions where clinical trials are planned.

    The cancer part of the lecture starte 23 minutes in.

    http://fasten.tv/en/vortraege/longo

     

    peter