IV VITAMIN C WITH CHEMOTHERAPY

atlanticcanada

is anyone else out there doing or has done iv vitamin c with chemotherapy?

my daughter is doing both , just started it with her first 2 treatments. 

interested in hearing if anyone else is or has,

pete43lost_at_sea

thanks atlanticcanada

i have done vit c over a year, recently in with some low dose chemo and chemo embolisation.

lots of interesting approaches to dosages and scheduling as well as supportive supplements like gsh and ala and selenium and many many more.

i would say good vit c is an art rather than a science and should be personalised. see my blog for the argument against too much which actually may shut down some cells dna repair mechanisms. so all these arguments are conflicting and then you got conventional medicine.

what is great is your daughter is looking out side the square, that something i admire, something that i have done and i wish her the best of health.

the science of vit c and how its close to sugar in chemical structure and that it gets absorbed into cancer cells sounds great. it apparently works well for some and not for others. i  am going to make some liposmal vit c myself this arvo.

google the mary hardy protocol as a good starting point. i am also on the verge of doing my own vit c infusions, but  i am heading back to germany and risk of infection is not worth the benefit for me.

google away, lots written about vit c. most of the onc here hate vit c with a passion that defies belief, they are so insecure about their authority being questioned. heck we are only fightling for our lives, who are we to question the onc's in their ivory towers.

I would google alpha lipoic acid, selenium and glutathione. if your getting an infusion who should get the most bang for your buck. so ask your doctor.

I have not researched this since 12 months ago, so if you find any really current exciting studies, post them here. the stuff a year ago was pretty convincing for me. ask you doctor about the source of vit c, even thats up for debate, the best being organic beetroot apparently. in the german clinic they keep the vitc shielded from light so that it does not oxidise by putting it in a green light proof bag. they don't do that here in sydney. so everywhere i see different standards and dosages. 

some forms of selenium are incompatible with vit c, so hopefully your alt doc will cover these issues fully, if not it might be a warning. I have met a few doc who dish out vit c without enough care for the patients entire health, ie a good wholistic workup.

some vit c seems to be a part of all the various clinics protocols. i am  doing 2 x weekly 30grams over an hour. i used to try 4 x 60 grams before going to german clinics.

feel free to share your protocol precisely, i would be curious, as I maybe starting a form of light chemo on a regular basis, and I wonder how your daughter doctor would work that into the fortnightly chemo regime that routinely offered to colorectals. which in itself is not optimal.

this is a really interesting subject thanks and worth discussing. its great that a few doctors in the states make this available to US patients.

hugs,

Pete

pete43lost_at_sea

everyone atlanticcanada please read this

this is a very very complex paper but full of interesting stuff about vit c benefits.

http://www.translational-medicine.com/content/pdf/1479-5876-9-25.pdf  I reread this paper, its still heavy.

I tried to raise this issue along while ago here

http://csn.cancer.org/node/215094 some of this replies in this post are from dear friends resting in peace, they cared enough to argue which is good.

its largely not been accepted because most friends here follow our doctors advice, a few more these days are pushing the envelope of conventional care.

it might be interesting to see the history of the vit c issue on this forum over time.

the consesus from german doctors is vit c is important but not the be all and end all. its an important part of the puzzle.

hugs,

Pete

ps and thanks for asking these great questions, just search the archives next time , you will find all these issues asked before. that said its good to ask again as it raises others awareness that we have many treatment therapies available beyond conventional medicine.

luvinlife2

Yes!

For over 2 years now and I can't do without them.  They make all the difference in how I feel and really help in keeping any chemo sice effects to a bare minimum (if at all).   I'm on the chemo for life plan ...surgery isn't an option for me anymore so this has greatly helped in my body's ability to  tolerate  the continuous bashing it takes from the chemo.

atlanticcanada

luvinlife2 said:

Yes!

For over 2 years now and I can't do without them.  They make all the difference in how I feel and really help in keeping any chemo sice effects to a bare minimum (if at all).   I'm on the chemo for life plan ...surgery isn't an option for me anymore so this has greatly helped in my body's ability to  tolerate  the continuous bashing it takes from the chemo.

how often do you do iv

how often do you do iv vitamin c ? my daughter is doing hers twice every other week,  she is thinking of going with one every other week, Do you feel it helps the chemo work?or just for minimizing side effects? She hasn't had any side effects yet but she is just on third treatment.

tanstaafl

atlanticcanada said:

how often do you do iv

how often do you do iv vitamin c ? my daughter is doing hers twice every other week,  she is thinking of going with one every other week, Do you feel it helps the chemo work?or just for minimizing side effects? She hasn't had any side effects yet but she is just on third treatment.

IV C forever

My wife has done IV vitamin C (1-7 per week)  for over two and a half years along with oral vitamin C and daily immunochemo. She still needs an IV C recharge after about 5-6 days when she becomes more allergy prone and less energetic.  Her chemo UFT (oral 5FU derivative) + leucovorin simply doesn't work fully (stop / reduce CEA) without the complementary/alternative parts.  Chemosensitivity lab tests on live surgical samples also suggest that she is chemo resistant to Folfiri and folfox. 

pete43lost_at_sea

tanstaafl said:

IV C forever

My wife has done IV vitamin C (1-7 per week)  for over two and a half years along with oral vitamin C and daily immunochemo. She still needs an IV C recharge after about 5-6 days when she becomes more allergy prone and less energetic.  Her chemo UFT (oral 5FU derivative) + leucovorin simply doesn't work fully (stop / reduce CEA) without the complementary/alternative parts.  Chemosensitivity lab tests on live surgical samples also suggest that she is chemo resistant to Folfiri and folfox. 

interesting tans

would you divulge the gory details, how many grams, over what period.

most importantly I guess on everyday, as you are doing xeloda daily.

do you prefer c in the morning, or lunch or dinner ? and what side dishes  in the iv mix ?

just curious, you know me! and of course the actual source of your C.

I get the impression that iv c is flexible based on cea and blood markers and inflamation.

hugs,

Pete

luvinlife2

atlanticcanada said:

how often do you do iv

how often do you do iv vitamin c ? my daughter is doing hers twice every other week,  she is thinking of going with one every other week, Do you feel it helps the chemo work?or just for minimizing side effects? She hasn't had any side effects yet but she is just on third treatment.

Hi Atlantic

Sorry again for the delay in replying.     I was doing them twice a week but now down to only 2x on chemo week and once/week thereafter because I was adding other treatments and it's just too much driving.  Having said that, I'bve really noticed a difference in how I feel going down to once a week so I might start again.  We'll see...I'm starting a very involved treatment regime for the next 9 weeks so I'm not sure if the Dr. wants me to add more Vit C iv's during this time.   I can say without hesitation that for myself, the IV's have played a huge part in my general well being and my body's ability to ward off chemo side effects.  I used to get all the side effects, especially the mouth sores and bad hands/feet before the iv's.  Now, although my mouth is sensitive to heat and spices, I never have a mouth sore and my hands/feet are in pretty good condition.  No peeling etc., just get dry.  Considering I've done 71 infusions of irinotecan/avastin and xeloda I'm in pretty good shape.  I really believe in these treatments and I'm glad to hear how well your daughter is doing! 

atlanticcanada

luvinlife2 said:

Hi Atlantic

Sorry again for the delay in replying.     I was doing them twice a week but now down to only 2x on chemo week and once/week thereafter because I was adding other treatments and it's just too much driving.  Having said that, I'bve really noticed a difference in how I feel going down to once a week so I might start again.  We'll see...I'm starting a very involved treatment regime for the next 9 weeks so I'm not sure if the Dr. wants me to add more Vit C iv's during this time.   I can say without hesitation that for myself, the IV's have played a huge part in my general well being and my body's ability to ward off chemo side effects.  I used to get all the side effects, especially the mouth sores and bad hands/feet before the iv's.  Now, although my mouth is sensitive to heat and spices, I never have a mouth sore and my hands/feet are in pretty good condition.  No peeling etc., just get dry.  Considering I've done 71 infusions of irinotecan/avastin and xeloda I'm in pretty good shape.  I really believe in these treatments and I'm glad to hear how well your daughter is doing! 

Wow! you are amazing 71

Wow! you are amazing 71 treatments and doing well, Do you think the mistletoe is helping alot too?  are you in Canada?

LivinginNH

pete43lost_at_sea said:

thanks atlanticcanada

i have done vit c over a year, recently in with some low dose chemo and chemo embolisation.

lots of interesting approaches to dosages and scheduling as well as supportive supplements like gsh and ala and selenium and many many more.

i would say good vit c is an art rather than a science and should be personalised. see my blog for the argument against too much which actually may shut down some cells dna repair mechanisms. so all these arguments are conflicting and then you got conventional medicine.

what is great is your daughter is looking out side the square, that something i admire, something that i have done and i wish her the best of health.

the science of vit c and how its close to sugar in chemical structure and that it gets absorbed into cancer cells sounds great. it apparently works well for some and not for others. i  am going to make some liposmal vit c myself this arvo.

google the mary hardy protocol as a good starting point. i am also on the verge of doing my own vit c infusions, but  i am heading back to germany and risk of infection is not worth the benefit for me.

google away, lots written about vit c. most of the onc here hate vit c with a passion that defies belief, they are so insecure about their authority being questioned. heck we are only fightling for our lives, who are we to question the onc's in their ivory towers.

I would google alpha lipoic acid, selenium and glutathione. if your getting an infusion who should get the most bang for your buck. so ask your doctor.

I have not researched this since 12 months ago, so if you find any really current exciting studies, post them here. the stuff a year ago was pretty convincing for me. ask you doctor about the source of vit c, even thats up for debate, the best being organic beetroot apparently. in the german clinic they keep the vitc shielded from light so that it does not oxidise by putting it in a green light proof bag. they don't do that here in sydney. so everywhere i see different standards and dosages. 

some forms of selenium are incompatible with vit c, so hopefully your alt doc will cover these issues fully, if not it might be a warning. I have met a few doc who dish out vit c without enough care for the patients entire health, ie a good wholistic workup.

some vit c seems to be a part of all the various clinics protocols. i am  doing 2 x weekly 30grams over an hour. i used to try 4 x 60 grams before going to german clinics.

feel free to share your protocol precisely, i would be curious, as I maybe starting a form of light chemo on a regular basis, and I wonder how your daughter doctor would work that into the fortnightly chemo regime that routinely offered to colorectals. which in itself is not optimal.

this is a really interesting subject thanks and worth discussing. its great that a few doctors in the states make this available to US patients.

hugs,

Pete

The only suppliment that all

The only suppliment that all of Rick's oncs agreed on him taking was D3.  He did about 4000 iu every day.  Dana Farber had found that reaserch on D3 showed that it slowed the rate of tumor spread.  Myself, I now take 2000 iu every day, and an aspirin to reduce inflammation in the colon.

Take care,

Cyn

 

 

 

 

tanstaafl

pete43lost_at_sea said:

interesting tans

would you divulge the gory details, how many grams, over what period.

most importantly I guess on everyday, as you are doing xeloda daily.

do you prefer c in the morning, or lunch or dinner ? and what side dishes  in the iv mix ?

just curious, you know me! and of course the actual source of your C.

I get the impression that iv c is flexible based on cea and blood markers and inflamation.

hugs,

Pete

C

She does 10 - 21 days of daily IV C after surgery, 21 days is kind of pushing it on easy vein sites.  After that, 5-4-3-2x per week, slowing down over several months.  After initial ramp up, with G6PD testing and 15  - 25 - 40 grams per infusion steps, she's used 60 - 80 grams per infusion with lot's of magnesium chloride/sulfate added to reduce vein irritation.  Ever impatient, she runs fast, probably too fast, 45 min -70 min for ca 65 grams of C, increasing risk of vein collapse.   Her vitamin C has no commercial preservatives (e.g. bisulfite or benzyl alcohol) and is really a sodium ascorbate - dehydroascorbate solution due to some oxidation, about 1 gram C per 11-14 milliliters of solution in sterile water. We think some dehydroascorbate, ugly brown in concentrated solutions vs clear for ascorbate, yellow in the IV bag, may be advantageous for killing cancer cells.   90 grams delivered fast was too much for her comfort.    

She's running about 5 days between infusions, 3x per 2 weeks right now.  Entirely her choice by how she feels, mostly energized for several days after an IV and prone to allergic reactions when it's time to reload. Once a week just doesn't hack it even though she's tired of the needle sticks.  Infusions are flexible , 7-8 am, 1-2pm or 5-6pm depending on schedule.

Source? Like most, a high quality China USP.

 

pete43lost_at_sea

tanstaafl said:

C

She does 10 - 21 days of daily IV C after surgery, 21 days is kind of pushing it on easy vein sites.  After that, 5-4-3-2x per week, slowing down over several months.  After initial ramp up, with G6PD testing and 15  - 25 - 40 grams per infusion steps, she's used 60 - 80 grams per infusion with lot's of magnesium chloride/sulfate added to reduce vein irritation.  Ever impatient, she runs fast, probably too fast, 45 min -70 min for ca 65 grams of C, increasing risk of vein collapse.   Her vitamin C has no commercial preservatives (e.g. bisulfite or benzyl alcohol) and is really a sodium ascorbate - dehydroascorbate solution due to some oxidation, about 1 gram C per 11-14 milliliters of solution in sterile water. We think some dehydroascorbate, ugly brown in concentrated solutions vs clear for ascorbate, yellow in the IV bag, may be advantageous for killing cancer cells.   90 grams delivered fast was too much for her comfort.    

She's running about 5 days between infusions, 3x per 2 weeks right now.  Entirely her choice by how she feels, mostly energized for several days after an IV and prone to allergic reactions when it's time to reload. Once a week just doesn't hack it even though she's tired of the needle sticks.  Infusions are flexible , 7-8 am, 1-2pm or 5-6pm depending on schedule.

Source? Like most, a high quality China USP.

 

thanks tans

i got 3 x 30grams c in 100ml and  2 iv bags in my car fridgr.

so a toal 90 grams

i will split it over w2 bags and run then in over over  w2p hours.

sharing how easy vit v is, taking the mystery out. heck i am doing while away

with at this small beachside village, just need to find a doctor to puncture the viens.

each days vit  45grams costs me 50$

hugs,

pete

JanJan63

Sorry nobody has responded.

Sorry nobody has responded. This is an old post. I think it has to be prescribed and the IV done by a medical person. I don't think you can just do it at home. Maybe where you live its different from me, though. I just read an article the other day about how they think vitamin C might reduce the effectiveness of chemo, though, so I'm not sure it's of benefit. I take a vitamin c pill every day for my immune system but my immune system isn't fighting the cancer because it doesn't even know it's there. I take it to try to prevent picking up something. 

If you start a new post/thread I'm sure you'll get more responses. Good luck to your family member!

Jan

feckcancer

VIT C

Hi, when i had chemo my oncologist advised me not to take vit c because some studies are showing that it heals to well as in the chemo is trying to kill your tumour but then the vit c heals it. he advised me to not take it while in treatment so i didn't. 

hope this is helpful

tanstaafl

IV vitamin C forever

We have used IV vitamin C for ~8 1/2 years with my wife's stage IVb colon cancer; 8 of those years with an oral 5FU chemo drug.   A number of papers since 2000 clearly show (IV) high levels of vitamin C killing KRAS and BRAF mutant RC cells.  Tests on my wife's living cancer tissues, from her para aortic lymph node mets, performed well with 5FU + vitamin C and K2, better than anything else.  Along with a number of supplements and off label drugs, for years longer than is typical with Folfox-Folfiri-Avastin, especially with her CA199 and (later) AFP biomarkers.  CEA is a mixed lot, apparently divided between KRAS mutant and wild patients.

Typical oncologists simply dont know much about supplements and off label drugs for CRC, as others have witnessed over the last 8+ years.  You should report your use to them, but I'd find better experienced helpers to recommend, detail and guide the use of non standard stuff.

Others here have improved their Folfiri + Avastin survival time with IV vitamin C and K3.  Folfox has less experience and follow up, although several have done it but without much data and followup coments. 

IV vitamin C is a much different proposition than oral C, cancer treatment wise.

One has to look around for help and supplies.  McGuff may have restarted viable (affordable) supplies of injectable vitamin C concentrated solution by now.  Otherwise  injectable C concentrate is bought from compounding pharmacies, as licensed in a particular state rather than the FDA's nationwide approvals. 

esther_aich

Vitamin C infusion

It is very difficult to find Vitamin C IV nowadays. I wasted days and nights looking for Vitamin C for the infusion.

Finally, the doctor administers the Vitamin C IV protocol from PharmaLife Laboratories.

I hope to have results using this therapy.

Esther