Tethys

2timothy1 7

Hi there
I don't know how to send messages to individuals so I had to give you a shout out. I'm going to see a new naturopath the 27th. The other one is just too far of a drive and I am just getting iscador from him. Now that my ca is on the ris(49). I'm ready to try to get on board with this diet stuff. My oncologist is prolly going to want me to start chemo again in jan. I may forgo this a month and give the alternative a chance. Plus ct just showed slightly increase in size of peri aortic lymph nodes. didnt your naturopath have it in her lymph nodes too? My question is what all should I ask this naturopath? They are not going to do the food sensitivity test on me due to gut leak from chemo, like you said. So you think it is wise for me to forgo the chemo a month or not??? Just not sure what to do. Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for your advice. I so appreciate it:)).
Shawnna

Tethys41

Diet
Shawnna,
Deciding whether to forego chemo for a month is a very difficult and personal decision. I will share what I know and you can decide what is best for you.
My naturopath was stage IV at diagnosis, but I don't know whether she had any lymph nodes involved. I would assume so with that late of a stage of cancer.
Each of her patients is treated as an individual, and that includes diet. But they are all on some form of the Paleo diet. That means, organic veggies (ideally 9 cups a day - 3 cups leafy greens, 3 cups cruciferous, and 3 cups colored veggies. No starchy veggies, like potatoes). Yes, this is a lot, and I really think if you get 6 cups, you are doing well. Meat - all organic, grass fed and finished, no hormones or antibiotics, pasure fed poultry or wild caught fish or wild game. Red meat is only recommended to patients whose serum ferratin level is normal and whose HCl content in their stomach acid is adequate to digest it properly. Some low sugar fruit (like organic berries) and nuts. No grains, no beans, no processed foods, no added sugar.
This is a restrictive diet, at first, but becomes an easy habit over time. Is it effective? I've seen numerous women with elevated CA-125s start on this diet and their number drops dramatically in the first few weeks.
Then there is the ketogenic diet, for a hard core push to get things going in the right direction. It's not much different from the Paleo diet, but has even fewer carbs. So, you would eliminate the fruit and limit the nuts. How effective is this diet? My naturopath started seeing an ovarian cancer patient in mid October whose liver was 80% consumed by cancer. Her doctor was out of options for her. Due to her weakened condition, my ND didn't want to do anything too stressful to her body, so she just put her on a very strict ketogenic diet. One month later, NO cancer in her liver.
This approach doesn't work for everyone. It depends on the imbalances in that particular patient's body and what is feeding the cancer. But sugar imbalances are a very common issue in ovarian cancer, and this diet severely restricts sugar intake (even in the form of carbs), so it works for many patients with this disease.
As for recurrances in the lymph nodes, I have a theory, which is only my personal opinion. It seems that recurrances limited to the lymph nodes often occur with no related elevation in CA-125. This tells me that either the cancer is contained and not affecting the rest of the body, or it isn't cancer at all, but just the lymph nodes doing their job. After I completed chemo, a CT scan showed that my thymus was enlarged. This is not unusual after chemo, as it can cause the thymus to rebound. A follow up PET scan showed activity in my thymus (it lit up on the scan), but the radiologist said it was inconclusive because it could be due to increased activity in the thymus cells. So, increased activity in cells will light up on a PET scan, but it may not necessarily mean it is cancer. That is why I believe lymph nodes that light up on a scan may just be doing their job and the cells are more active, not necessarily cancerous, if the CA-125 stays the same.
I would ask your new naturopath what he or she intends to monitor in your body. What tests will he or she run to determine what your body needs. My naturopath sees cancerous activity in a body by monitoring the by products of cancer activity in the following tests:CRP(HS), LDH, and sed. rate. In a patient who is NED, these will show progressing cancer processes long before a rise in CA-125. Then she also does testing to determine the body's terrain and what specifically is contributing to the cancer activity; things such as iron and copper load, estrogen methylation, inflammation, angiogenesis, stickiness of the blood, blood sugar issues, vitamin D level (a very critical measure and too low in all cancer patients), B12 methylation, to name a few.
Let me know if you have more questions. I wish you luck with your decision.

2timothy1 7

Tethys41 said:

Diet
Shawnna,
Deciding whether to forego chemo for a month is a very difficult and personal decision. I will share what I know and you can decide what is best for you.
My naturopath was stage IV at diagnosis, but I don't know whether she had any lymph nodes involved. I would assume so with that late of a stage of cancer.
Each of her patients is treated as an individual, and that includes diet. But they are all on some form of the Paleo diet. That means, organic veggies (ideally 9 cups a day - 3 cups leafy greens, 3 cups cruciferous, and 3 cups colored veggies. No starchy veggies, like potatoes). Yes, this is a lot, and I really think if you get 6 cups, you are doing well. Meat - all organic, grass fed and finished, no hormones or antibiotics, pasure fed poultry or wild caught fish or wild game. Red meat is only recommended to patients whose serum ferratin level is normal and whose HCl content in their stomach acid is adequate to digest it properly. Some low sugar fruit (like organic berries) and nuts. No grains, no beans, no processed foods, no added sugar.
This is a restrictive diet, at first, but becomes an easy habit over time. Is it effective? I've seen numerous women with elevated CA-125s start on this diet and their number drops dramatically in the first few weeks.
Then there is the ketogenic diet, for a hard core push to get things going in the right direction. It's not much different from the Paleo diet, but has even fewer carbs. So, you would eliminate the fruit and limit the nuts. How effective is this diet? My naturopath started seeing an ovarian cancer patient in mid October whose liver was 80% consumed by cancer. Her doctor was out of options for her. Due to her weakened condition, my ND didn't want to do anything too stressful to her body, so she just put her on a very strict ketogenic diet. One month later, NO cancer in her liver.
This approach doesn't work for everyone. It depends on the imbalances in that particular patient's body and what is feeding the cancer. But sugar imbalances are a very common issue in ovarian cancer, and this diet severely restricts sugar intake (even in the form of carbs), so it works for many patients with this disease.
As for recurrances in the lymph nodes, I have a theory, which is only my personal opinion. It seems that recurrances limited to the lymph nodes often occur with no related elevation in CA-125. This tells me that either the cancer is contained and not affecting the rest of the body, or it isn't cancer at all, but just the lymph nodes doing their job. After I completed chemo, a CT scan showed that my thymus was enlarged. This is not unusual after chemo, as it can cause the thymus to rebound. A follow up PET scan showed activity in my thymus (it lit up on the scan), but the radiologist said it was inconclusive because it could be due to increased activity in the thymus cells. So, increased activity in cells will light up on a PET scan, but it may not necessarily mean it is cancer. That is why I believe lymph nodes that light up on a scan may just be doing their job and the cells are more active, not necessarily cancerous, if the CA-125 stays the same.
I would ask your new naturopath what he or she intends to monitor in your body. What tests will he or she run to determine what your body needs. My naturopath sees cancerous activity in a body by monitoring the by products of cancer activity in the following tests:CRP(HS), LDH, and sed. rate. In a patient who is NED, these will show progressing cancer processes long before a rise in CA-125. Then she also does testing to determine the body's terrain and what specifically is contributing to the cancer activity; things such as iron and copper load, estrogen methylation, inflammation, angiogenesis, stickiness of the blood, blood sugar issues, vitamin D level (a very critical measure and too low in all cancer patients), B12 methylation, to name a few.
Let me know if you have more questions. I wish you luck with your decision.

Diet
Tethys
Thanks! I'm making notes right now based on your info. I will know more about my plan of action after I get my ca125 drawn again at end of month.
Have a good day!
Shawnna

Tethys41

2timothy1 7 said:

Diet
Tethys
Thanks! I'm making notes right now based on your info. I will know more about my plan of action after I get my ca125 drawn again at end of month.
Have a good day!
Shawnna

Good Luck
Let me know how it goes and what you decide.

Tethys41

2timothy1 7 said:

Diet
Tethys
Thanks! I'm making notes right now based on your info. I will know more about my plan of action after I get my ca125 drawn again at end of month.
Have a good day!
Shawnna

Ketogenic Diet
Well worth watching and reflects the results my naturopath is seeing.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/OxhNMzIzs3M

KitchenWitch

Tethy41's naturopath says
Tethy41's naturopath says she has had stage 4 ovarian cancer for 21 years. No problem. It's all kept in check with the proper naturopathic techniques.

Stage 4. 21 years. No surgery. No chemo. No oncologist.

I do not believe this story.

Does anyone?

Tethys41

KitchenWitch said:

Tethy41's naturopath says
Tethy41's naturopath says she has had stage 4 ovarian cancer for 21 years. No problem. It's all kept in check with the proper naturopathic techniques.

Stage 4. 21 years. No surgery. No chemo. No oncologist.

I do not believe this story.

Does anyone?

Naturopath
And this is exactly why I have so much faith in her approach.
She's not just my naturopath. She has over 70 patients with an ovca
diagnosis, and they are doing remarkably well under her care.
Even the gyn/oncs who see her patients are contacting her to see
what she is doing to get such good results.

Alexandra

KitchenWitch said:

Tethy41's naturopath says
Tethy41's naturopath says she has had stage 4 ovarian cancer for 21 years. No problem. It's all kept in check with the proper naturopathic techniques.

Stage 4. 21 years. No surgery. No chemo. No oncologist.

I do not believe this story.

Does anyone?

Tethys41's naturopath
Nasha Winters, ND is an ovarian cancer survivor, running her clinic out of Durango, CO.

Namaste Health Center
Tel. 970-247-2043
http://namastehealthcenter.com/staff/nasha.html
email: info@namastehealthcenter.com

Nasha's miraculous recovery and her efforts to help other cancer patients are very impressive.
I did not find any credible statistics on her patients' outcomes outside of her own web-site and a few patients' posts on a couple of boards.
It does not mean that it's not true. She certainly has a following.
But if she helped and gave hope to even one patient without turning it into a cult, I applaud her.

Personally I would not abandon conventional medicine in favor of alternative. Integrative therapy is the happy medium for me.

KitchenWitch

Alexandra said:

Tethys41's naturopath
Nasha Winters, ND is an ovarian cancer survivor, running her clinic out of Durango, CO.

Namaste Health Center
Tel. 970-247-2043
http://namastehealthcenter.com/staff/nasha.html
email: info@namastehealthcenter.com

Nasha's miraculous recovery and her efforts to help other cancer patients are very impressive.
I did not find any credible statistics on her patients' outcomes outside of her own web-site and a few patients' posts on a couple of boards.
It does not mean that it's not true. She certainly has a following.
But if she helped and gave hope to even one patient without turning it into a cult, I applaud her.

Personally I would not abandon conventional medicine in favor of alternative. Integrative therapy is the happy medium for me.

"Nasha's miraculous
"Nasha's miraculous recovery"

Please tell us more about this. What type of ovarian cancer did she have? What grade is it? She says she was stage IV. How many tumors were there? Where were they? Is she NED? Does she ever show anyone her pathology reports or CT scans?

No surgery. No chemo. No oncologist. Who did the diagnosis?

Yes, she is recruiting new patients very aggressively.

Tethys41

KitchenWitch said:

"Nasha's miraculous
"Nasha's miraculous recovery"

Please tell us more about this. What type of ovarian cancer did she have? What grade is it? She says she was stage IV. How many tumors were there? Where were they? Is she NED? Does she ever show anyone her pathology reports or CT scans?

No surgery. No chemo. No oncologist. Who did the diagnosis?

Yes, she is recruiting new patients very aggressively.

Since you asked....
Her diagnosis was stage IV papillary serous adenocarcinoma. Can't tell you the grade, as I've never asked her this question. The cancer had spread throughout her abdomen and into her liver. She has never been NED, as a dormant tumor remains on her liver. That is why she is such a good test subject for what works in her body. If she does something that supports cancer, her CA-125 will rise. If she does something that is detrimental to cancer, it falls. I can only speak to the conversations I've had with her, I have never asked to look at her medical records, nor would I. I don't know whether anyone else has. Her diagnosis came from pathology on ascites that was drained and her staging came from the CT, which show tumors in her liver. She was in medical school at the time, and when her doctor told her she had no chance of survival, she struck out on her own to find a way to manage her disease. I'd say she has been quite successful.
The point is, her patients show a very high success rate. She takes the time to teach her patients what cancer is, what causes it and what reduces it, as well as how to keep your body inhospitable to cancer. She is not the only person who has talked along these lines. Dr. David Servan-Scheriber discussed these concepts in his book "Anti-Cancer." Another resource that reflects many of Dr. Winters' prespective is "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease," by Thomas N. Seyfried. It is just that Dr. Winters' personal investment in ovarian cancer has driven her to research it to the max, and to continually expand her knowledge. She works closely with each patient to identify and manage the imbalances in each person that contribute to their cancer. I've been her patient for nealy three years and ask a lot of questions. I understand the science behind her approach and am repeatedly impressed at how dynamic her knowledge is.
In actuallity, she is not recruiting new patients at all. Her current patients are sharing their experiences and referring those who are interested. She has been in practice as a naturopath for a very long time and has never been in need of more patients. As a general practitioner, her schedule was always full. Just recently she has changed her practice to oncology only, to accomodate the number of patients who want to see her, through word of mouth.
Her husband is a biochemist, who used to work at Merck and became very disenchanged with the pharmecutical approach to cancer. He and Dr. Winters are working together to design products to support cancer patients. They have a new product out that is being used at Cancer Treatment Centers of America that takes the place of unhealthy protein drinks, like Boost and Ensure. Their product not only supplies the patient with the necessary protein to reduce risk of cachexia, but also contains supplements to reduce the risk of side effects of treatment, such as chemo brain and neuropathy.
I've been a patient of other integrative practitioners and I went for two weeks of treatment in Mexico before meeting Dr. Winters. Although I have appreciated the treatment I've received from all of my healthcare practitioners, my personal opinion is that Dr. Winters is head and shoulders above anyone else I've worked with when it comes to supporting ovarian cancer patients. I feel priviledged and unmeasurabley lucky to be her patient.

da1955

Tethys41 said:

Since you asked....
Her diagnosis was stage IV papillary serous adenocarcinoma. Can't tell you the grade, as I've never asked her this question. The cancer had spread throughout her abdomen and into her liver. She has never been NED, as a dormant tumor remains on her liver. That is why she is such a good test subject for what works in her body. If she does something that supports cancer, her CA-125 will rise. If she does something that is detrimental to cancer, it falls. I can only speak to the conversations I've had with her, I have never asked to look at her medical records, nor would I. I don't know whether anyone else has. Her diagnosis came from pathology on ascites that was drained and her staging came from the CT, which show tumors in her liver. She was in medical school at the time, and when her doctor told her she had no chance of survival, she struck out on her own to find a way to manage her disease. I'd say she has been quite successful.
The point is, her patients show a very high success rate. She takes the time to teach her patients what cancer is, what causes it and what reduces it, as well as how to keep your body inhospitable to cancer. She is not the only person who has talked along these lines. Dr. David Servan-Scheriber discussed these concepts in his book "Anti-Cancer." Another resource that reflects many of Dr. Winters' prespective is "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease," by Thomas N. Seyfried. It is just that Dr. Winters' personal investment in ovarian cancer has driven her to research it to the max, and to continually expand her knowledge. She works closely with each patient to identify and manage the imbalances in each person that contribute to their cancer. I've been her patient for nealy three years and ask a lot of questions. I understand the science behind her approach and am repeatedly impressed at how dynamic her knowledge is.
In actuallity, she is not recruiting new patients at all. Her current patients are sharing their experiences and referring those who are interested. She has been in practice as a naturopath for a very long time and has never been in need of more patients. As a general practitioner, her schedule was always full. Just recently she has changed her practice to oncology only, to accomodate the number of patients who want to see her, through word of mouth.
Her husband is a biochemist, who used to work at Merck and became very disenchanged with the pharmecutical approach to cancer. He and Dr. Winters are working together to design products to support cancer patients. They have a new product out that is being used at Cancer Treatment Centers of America that takes the place of unhealthy protein drinks, like Boost and Ensure. Their product not only supplies the patient with the necessary protein to reduce risk of cachexia, but also contains supplements to reduce the risk of side effects of treatment, such as chemo brain and neuropathy.
I've been a patient of other integrative practitioners and I went for two weeks of treatment in Mexico before meeting Dr. Winters. Although I have appreciated the treatment I've received from all of my healthcare practitioners, my personal opinion is that Dr. Winters is head and shoulders above anyone else I've worked with when it comes to supporting ovarian cancer patients. I feel priviledged and unmeasurabley lucky to be her patient.

Merry Christmas, Tethys

I wanted to just take a moment and thank you for telling your story on these boards. When I was diagnosed with Stage III ovca I was looking for integrative therapies. You talked about yours, never mentioning who your naturopath was. I researched and found Nasha's name on my own then asked you about her. My daughter helped me make the trek from Illinois to Durango just to meet with her and I was lucky enough to have dinner with you as well. It is very difficult changing your lifestyle and giving up sugar, eating "clean" meat and giving up carbs. I fall off the wagon sometimes, but I am recommitting myself because my last CA 125 was 5. The one before that was 4. I am not saying to rely soley on naturopathy, but I do think diet plays a major role in keeping cancer at bay. Thank you so much Tethys for all of your helpful information this last year and I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Deb

Tasgirl

I am also a patient of

I am also a patient of Nasha's. I have only been her patient since September and her attitude is that she is looking after your body!! Not trying to destroy it with chemo. BUT if  you are on chemo or going on chemo she has suggestions as to what to do to help your body. If your body is not strong enough to handle the chemo then you are in deep trouble.

Did I ask to see her medical report before seeing her. NO. Did I ask my surgeon and oncologist to see all their medical qualifications and experiences. NO. Did I question any of the treatment they were giving me. NO.

If her treatment is based on the proper diet WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT???? Is it working for me? I do not know yet as I am only new to her plan but after years of eating all the wrong things I think it is going to take a while for me.

da1955

Tasgirl said:

I am also a patient of

I am also a patient of Nasha's. I have only been her patient since September and her attitude is that she is looking after your body!! Not trying to destroy it with chemo. BUT if  you are on chemo or going on chemo she has suggestions as to what to do to help your body. If your body is not strong enough to handle the chemo then you are in deep trouble.

Did I ask to see her medical report before seeing her. NO. Did I ask my surgeon and oncologist to see all their medical qualifications and experiences. NO. Did I question any of the treatment they were giving me. NO.

If her treatment is based on the proper diet WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT???? Is it working for me? I do not know yet as I am only new to her plan but after years of eating all the wrong things I think it is going to take a while for me.

chemo

Very true, Tasgirl. I followed Nasha's recommendations for what to eat during chemo and I believe it was the reason I did well during the process. I had 6 rounds of carbo/taxol and continued to work full time. I had my last treatment in March of 2012. I am still in the process of changing my lifestyle and feel sometimes it would be best if I got an apartment on my own so I would not be tempted by the food required of two teenagers in the house but, I do feel better when I eat the way I should. Deb

gardenxeric

da1955 said:

chemo

Very true, Tasgirl. I followed Nasha's recommendations for what to eat during chemo and I believe it was the reason I did well during the process. I had 6 rounds of carbo/taxol and continued to work full time. I had my last treatment in March of 2012. I am still in the process of changing my lifestyle and feel sometimes it would be best if I got an apartment on my own so I would not be tempted by the food required of two teenagers in the house but, I do feel better when I eat the way I should. Deb

gardenxeric

I just joined, and hope I did everything right! Quick background: 9 and (almost) 3/4 year survivor, with 3 recurrences, 3 surgeries and lots of research. I won't go through my entire history, but after chemo failed me in July, 2011, my CA-125, for the first time ever, continued rising. My oncologist said I was into a fourth recurrence. However, I heard of the naturopath mentioned here, and went to her the last of October, 2011. I began her diet, took supplements that finally matched what my body needed, and my CA-125, a reliable marker, went down from 51.3 to 39.3 in three weeks. I actually called the lab because I knew this was not mine. I've gone to 3 support groups since 2006 to help the newbies, and had never heard of it. Imagine my shock when, yes, it was truly mine! It continued its downward journey, and from May onward it has stayed between 11-13. I also did Iscador (mistletoe shots), and know that the Iscador, the diet (organic meat, organic veggies), plus supplements suggested from a wide variety of tests that looked at my entire body's terrain, have arrested my unruly little aliens. What else could it have been? I use the same yardstick of CA-125 that every oncologist I have ever seen uses, including the ones at my clinical trial at MD Anderson, so if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

So, I am very much on the bandwagon, after all these years, and all those recurrences. The interesting thing is that it's not just me, or Tethys or Tasgirl, or da1955.

It's also my friend of 3+ years, who was beginning her third recurrence in as many years. She began with Nasha in July, with a visible tumor on her para-aortic lymph node not conducive to radiation or surgery, and a rising CA-125, a good marker for her. In a couple of months, her CA-125 went from 59 to 32, and recently was at 27. Her tumor was steady, and lately is showing diminished activity, according to her oncologist. 

It's also my other friend from our central group, who is super-sensitive to all drugs, and who had to quit chemo for awhile because her oncologist said continuing with chemo could kill her. So for 5 months, she did the diet, Iscador, and personal supplements. When she could restart chemo, her CA-125 had risen only a few points, and her tumors had grown only slightly. 

Another woman, and these are all women I personally know, was experiencing  rising CA-125 after her first experience with our lovely aliens, but after she did the diet and individualized supplements, with not even Iscador, her CA-125 went from 52 to 42, and her scans continue to be clean. She's absolutely ecstatic, of course!

Another woman has been in constant chemo for two years, and currently her CA-125 is the lowest it's been in that time. I really could go on and on. What I have seen is amazing, and not anything I had seen in all the years I've been on this journey. She is one of those people you rarely meet, but when you do, you realize what an interesting mind she has. With her background in a variety of mainstream/complementary/alternative areas, she can pull together the best of each, and I have seen her do it with me. Now, the idea that cancer can only be treated with chemo/surgery is not what I believe. None of us are saying that you should not use mainstream medicine. None of us are telling other intelligent women what they should or shouldn't do. We are just laying out results that might seem impossible, except that we know these women. It's all based on science, because I don't do woo-woo at all. There is simply more to this than what most women do,I believe, and keeping an inner terrain that is inhospitable to cancer is paramount. It can be done, it is being done, and it has already worked for many of us. 

She is not wanting for patients. I think she's booked through April now. So she's  not out there doing anything to bring new patients in. We are just so elated and amazed at what has happened that we'd like everyone to know and be able to take advantage of this. I get nothing out of this at all. But when something has worked for you, it's my old schoolteacher instincts coming to the fore—who else can I help? : )

The news is generally so depressing with our disease that when you hear of CA-125 decreasing w/o chemo/suery, it's like a breath of fresh air. I always check out everything, naturally. There are horrible scam artists out there, preying on women at their most vulnerable time, and they are beyond despicable in my opinion. This is based on science and simple common sense. Chemo decimates your body. There are ways to strengthen it that don't involve chemo-like side effects. I see it working in my friends. I have experienced it myself, and have the CA-125 readouts to prove it. I now am getting to know what tests will tell me if there are areas in my immune system that are weak, whether or not inflammation is feeding cancer, etc. The complex body system is connected, and what happens in one area affects everything else. So that is why for me it's important to treat all of me so that all of me is well! 

I noticed there is not a spell check, or I have missed it. It's awful how dependent we become on it! Good luck!

 

Tethys41

2timothy1 7 said:

Diet
Tethys
Thanks! I'm making notes right now based on your info. I will know more about my plan of action after I get my ca125 drawn again at end of month.
Have a good day!
Shawnna

More on the Ketogenic Diet

http://www.askthelowcarbexperts.com/2012/10/31-dr-colin-champ-ketogenic-diets-and-cancer/