Anybody tried maple syrup/baking soda (Na Bicarb)?
Tedd
Comments
-
Tedd -
Re:
"The explanation for how it works is that cancer cells take up 15X
more sugar than normal cells (why PET scans work), and then the
Na Bicarb causes the cells pH to get really high which kills the cancer cells."
Normal cells that are in the process of healing, uptake as much,
or more glucose than a cancer cell. Cancer -tumors- may more often
uptake more glucose, but that is not always the case. The higher
uptake of glucose is not a "test", or qualifier for the identification
of cancer.
A cancer cell that has metastasized to an area where normal cells
grow faster than the area where the cancer cell came from, often
makes addressing the cancer cell nearly impossible using methods
that rely on glucose uptake for it's targeting means.
Understanding that fact, should cause one to question the reasoning
of that initial statement! Under most normal circumstances, using
"Na Bicarb" in the manner suggested would cause the death of
more good cells than cancer cells. A little counterproductive,
I'd say....
Our bodies work very hard to keep our PH level within a very tight
tolerance, since a small change can cause severe health problems,
including death. Attempting to change one's PH level only taxes
our renal system and immune system, neither of what we should
be looking to do when we're already fighting to stay alive.
There are other safer options to most of these unproven "alternative remedies".
Please don't allow fear to drive you down the wrong path.
Better health to you!
John0 -
Carrie & Tedcarrieh said:Cath the Only Way?
Can you just eat it or does it have to be a cath? I'm new to this whole cancer thing. I worked in sales and about a year ago a man was telling me about baking soda/cancer..before I knew I had cancer.
First thing to be wary of is claims like the soda, many people will tell you about the latest thing they've heard that works. A lot of times it's a myth, may have started from a cancer trial that failed, or what one would call an old wives tales, so and so said that this works "it's on the internet", just remember because it's on the internet, doesn't make it true. Be wary of claims, and ask your onc about it Baking soda with the maple syrups is just one of many myths out there.
Winter Marie0 -
Maybe....John23 said:Tedd -
Re:
"The explanation for how it works is that cancer cells take up 15X
more sugar than normal cells (why PET scans work), and then the
Na Bicarb causes the cells pH to get really high which kills the cancer cells."
Normal cells that are in the process of healing, uptake as much,
or more glucose than a cancer cell. Cancer -tumors- may more often
uptake more glucose, but that is not always the case. The higher
uptake of glucose is not a "test", or qualifier for the identification
of cancer.
A cancer cell that has metastasized to an area where normal cells
grow faster than the area where the cancer cell came from, often
makes addressing the cancer cell nearly impossible using methods
that rely on glucose uptake for it's targeting means.
Understanding that fact, should cause one to question the reasoning
of that initial statement! Under most normal circumstances, using
"Na Bicarb" in the manner suggested would cause the death of
more good cells than cancer cells. A little counterproductive,
I'd say....
Our bodies work very hard to keep our PH level within a very tight
tolerance, since a small change can cause severe health problems,
including death. Attempting to change one's PH level only taxes
our renal system and immune system, neither of what we should
be looking to do when we're already fighting to stay alive.
There are other safer options to most of these unproven "alternative remedies".
Please don't allow fear to drive you down the wrong path.
Better health to you!
John
"Bicarbonate Increases Tumor pH and Inhibits Spontaneous Metastases"
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/69/6/2260.full.pdf+html0 -
MWNA -manwithnoname said:Maybe....
"Bicarbonate Increases Tumor pH and Inhibits Spontaneous Metastases"
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/69/6/2260.full.pdf+html
MWNA -
Re:
"Bicarbonate Increases Tumor pH and Inhibits Spontaneous Metastases"
Yes, if it is injected directly into the tumor, or directly into it's blood supply.
What happens in a test-tube is not proof of much of anything.
Remember back in the 60s, when they found that "Coca Cola" killed
the AIDS virus? You bet! In a test-tube (They forgot the important part).
It ended up that anything can kill the virus in a test tube.
Reality may be a PITA, but if we don't face it, we can't fight the
real enemy with any success.
Be well,
John0 -
We use CokeJohn23 said:MWNA -
MWNA -
Re:
"Bicarbonate Increases Tumor pH and Inhibits Spontaneous Metastases"
Yes, if it is injected directly into the tumor, or directly into it's blood supply.
What happens in a test-tube is not proof of much of anything.
Remember back in the 60s, when they found that "Coca Cola" killed
the AIDS virus? You bet! In a test-tube (They forgot the important part).
It ended up that anything can kill the virus in a test tube.
Reality may be a PITA, but if we don't face it, we can't fight the
real enemy with any success.
Be well,
John
To clean our toilet.... but this study was oral administration to mice. (did you read it?)
"An equivalent dose in a 70-kg human would be 12.5 g/d" I imagine that dosage would make you quite ill if done too long.
"In the 30-day experiment, pooled data showed that the bicarbonate-treated mice had a total of 147 metastatic lung lesions, whereas the control group had 326 lung lesions"
50% reduction from bicarbonate! lots of protocols don't get that response.
Of course we need double blind yada yada yada never happen trials.
Still, it's interesting. (to me)0 -
As Ted says, if there reallymanwithnoname said:We use Coke
To clean our toilet.... but this study was oral administration to mice. (did you read it?)
"An equivalent dose in a 70-kg human would be 12.5 g/d" I imagine that dosage would make you quite ill if done too long.
"In the 30-day experiment, pooled data showed that the bicarbonate-treated mice had a total of 147 metastatic lung lesions, whereas the control group had 326 lung lesions"
50% reduction from bicarbonate! lots of protocols don't get that response.
Of course we need double blind yada yada yada never happen trials.
Still, it's interesting. (to me)
As Ted says, if there really are doctors doing this via "catheter", then technically they are doing what John says will kill the tumor.....by putting it directly into the blood stream.
Ted....still curious did the article name doctors doing this. Are you able to post a link. Was it an old article?0 -
Im interested toojanie1 said:As Ted says, if there really
As Ted says, if there really are doctors doing this via "catheter", then technically they are doing what John says will kill the tumor.....by putting it directly into the blood stream.
Ted....still curious did the article name doctors doing this. Are you able to post a link. Was it an old article?
I wrote this treatment off as 'woo' a long time ago, but Im open minded, and what made me curious was that 3 serious universities decided to study this.
That to me means the principle is sound, or the university board would have laughed them out of the room.
But what works in mice does not necessarily work in humans, and this will NEVER go to trial.0 -
Anythingmanwithnoname said:Im interested too
I wrote this treatment off as 'woo' a long time ago, but Im open minded, and what made me curious was that 3 serious universities decided to study this.
That to me means the principle is sound, or the university board would have laughed them out of the room.
But what works in mice does not necessarily work in humans, and this will NEVER go to trial.
It seems anything alternative ManWithoutColonCancer is interesting to you, whether it works or not, you like to make sure that colon cancer victims try it to satisfy some need in your mind.0 -
Winter Marieherdizziness said:Anything
It seems anything alternative ManWithoutColonCancer is interesting to you, whether it works or not, you like to make sure that colon cancer victims try it to satisfy some need in your mind.
I pray you never, ever, run out of chemo options. Some of us have and let me tell you it is agony. I am not as strong as you.0 -
I wondered how longherdizziness said:Anything
It seems anything alternative ManWithoutColonCancer is interesting to you, whether it works or not, you like to make sure that colon cancer victims try it to satisfy some need in your mind.
it would take for you to show up with your personal attacks, seems to be when ever your opinion is questioned....it's just your opinion, please don't let science or facts distort it.
Yeah, I forgot to mention I own a bicarbonate factory....0 -
Janiejanie1 said:Winter Marie
I pray you never, ever, run out of chemo options. Some of us have and let me tell you it is agony. I am not as strong as you.
You have to understand, that things like baking soda are not going to fix or cure or stop your cancer, it isn't a method that is going to work, plain and simple. When people purport that something like this should be tried or works, then it is only HURTING those without chemo options. There are alternatives out there that have better chances of helping then baking soda. We all would be on baking soda if it worked, our oncologists aren't evil pharma men, that saw baking soda and maple syrup worked and said, Geez, we better not let out dying cancer patients know about this, and now we only have HONEST people out there feeding us this crap about baking soda and we are to believe. It is a false hope, so Janie, I'm not going to stay silent when something like baking soda is touted as a cure. And dear if I run out of chemo options, I will not be doing baking soda and maple syrup, it is a fallacy. And Janie, anyone with stage IV colon cancer is an agony, whether they have chemo or not, they never know if the chemo will work etc., we are all in agony, but it is no reason for us to spread or go for things that DO NOT work, that only hurts us in the end, there is so much so called "alternative" stuff out there touted as a cure that simply isn't, it's just there to give you false hope or take away your money. There are things that do help, like milkthistle, I think some of John's TCM works, but baking soda curing you? No. Do not shoot the messenger Janie, baking soda isn't going to cure you plain and simple.
Winter Marie0 -
Probably very trueherdizziness said:Janie
You have to understand, that things like baking soda are not going to fix or cure or stop your cancer, it isn't a method that is going to work, plain and simple. When people purport that something like this should be tried or works, then it is only HURTING those without chemo options. There are alternatives out there that have better chances of helping then baking soda. We all would be on baking soda if it worked, our oncologists aren't evil pharma men, that saw baking soda and maple syrup worked and said, Geez, we better not let out dying cancer patients know about this, and now we only have HONEST people out there feeding us this crap about baking soda and we are to believe. It is a false hope, so Janie, I'm not going to stay silent when something like baking soda is touted as a cure. And dear if I run out of chemo options, I will not be doing baking soda and maple syrup, it is a fallacy. And Janie, anyone with stage IV colon cancer is an agony, whether they have chemo or not, they never know if the chemo will work etc., we are all in agony, but it is no reason for us to spread or go for things that DO NOT work, that only hurts us in the end, there is so much so called "alternative" stuff out there touted as a cure that simply isn't, it's just there to give you false hope or take away your money. There are things that do help, like milkthistle, I think some of John's TCM works, but baking soda curing you? No. Do not shoot the messenger Janie, baking soda isn't going to cure you plain and simple.
Winter Marie
" There are alternatives out there that have better chances of helping then baking soda"
Now name them please, with checkable peer reviewed studies behind them. I'll be here anxiously waiting.
Also did ANYONE mention 'cure' or are you making things up? read this thread again and only YOU seem to mention it, be careful with that word...
BTW you need to get a dictionary out and look up the word 'placebo'.
Do you know that in the 1960's doctors that used 'chemo' were called 'the lunatic fringe' look it up dear.0 -
Tedd - are you doing chemo?
Tedd - are you doing chemo? Have you mentioned this to the doctor yet?
My husband is just starting - 4th treatment this Friday, but I think any alternatives, that are not harmful are worth a try. If for no other reason, to make you feel like you've tried everything and have not given up.0 -
Winter Mariemanwithnoname said:I wondered how long
it would take for you to show up with your personal attacks, seems to be when ever your opinion is questioned....it's just your opinion, please don't let science or facts distort it.
Yeah, I forgot to mention I own a bicarbonate factory....
I'll try this one more time. I thought I was halfway intelligent, but maybe I now have chemo brain.
I am only speaking for me........I do NOT plan to treat myself with "baking soda and maple syrup".
I am interested in research. I am a factual person. I was asking Ted if he could perhaps share that link. I do not believe it hurts to read.
At the time of my diagnosis, my first oncologist said "chemo will mop up any cancer cells floating around after surgery".
So, i wasn't quite in the "agony" back then (only 1.7 years ago), that I am in now. I (not talking about anyone else), have been through all the chemo regimes except the last 2 new ones, and, the one that TaraH has been kind enough to say has been working for "her", Gemzar.
Gemzar was also used by Lisa42.
I'm glad you have a good oncologist and they have been perfectly upfront with you, and honest. I have not been that fortunate.
And yes, I know that everyone with stage 4 is in agony, and I shouldn't be so self-centered. I only said it because for me, and me alone, I wasn't AS scared at the time of diagnosis than I am right now. I, in no way, expect anyone to feel exactly the way I do, or "when" I feel like
I do. My apology for being selfish and whiney. I have really tried here to offer more support, than to give a blow by blow what is going on with me.
My hopes for the Kanzius machine that MD Anderson will begin in human clinical trials, either this year yet (or next) is that it will be very successful in treating this hideous disease.
Have you read about it WM? It is quite a fascinating story. It utilizes radiofrequency waves, and gold particles. Sounds bizarre, I know, but every invention, treatment, etc. that is in use, probably seemed bizarre in the early stages. Everything does.
To think.... that a mainstream research hospital will be doing human clinical trials using radiofreqency and gold particles......0 -
Is a wonderful tool, it's saved a lot of lives. And yes, mold and the miracle of penicillin, who would have thought, the research world is fantastic. They find things that work, they find things that don't.janie1 said:Winter Marie
I'll try this one more time. I thought I was halfway intelligent, but maybe I now have chemo brain.
I am only speaking for me........I do NOT plan to treat myself with "baking soda and maple syrup".
I am interested in research. I am a factual person. I was asking Ted if he could perhaps share that link. I do not believe it hurts to read.
At the time of my diagnosis, my first oncologist said "chemo will mop up any cancer cells floating around after surgery".
So, i wasn't quite in the "agony" back then (only 1.7 years ago), that I am in now. I (not talking about anyone else), have been through all the chemo regimes except the last 2 new ones, and, the one that TaraH has been kind enough to say has been working for "her", Gemzar.
Gemzar was also used by Lisa42.
I'm glad you have a good oncologist and they have been perfectly upfront with you, and honest. I have not been that fortunate.
And yes, I know that everyone with stage 4 is in agony, and I shouldn't be so self-centered. I only said it because for me, and me alone, I wasn't AS scared at the time of diagnosis than I am right now. I, in no way, expect anyone to feel exactly the way I do, or "when" I feel like
I do. My apology for being selfish and whiney. I have really tried here to offer more support, than to give a blow by blow what is going on with me.
My hopes for the Kanzius machine that MD Anderson will begin in human clinical trials, either this year yet (or next) is that it will be very successful in treating this hideous disease.
Have you read about it WM? It is quite a fascinating story. It utilizes radiofrequency waves, and gold particles. Sounds bizarre, I know, but every invention, treatment, etc. that is in use, probably seemed bizarre in the early stages. Everything does.
To think.... that a mainstream research hospital will be doing human clinical trials using radiofreqency and gold particles......
My greatest hero's are those brave souls that participate in clinical trials, not knowing if they receive the placebo or the real thing, not knowing if the "real" thing is going to work, and yet they bravely go on.
Look at Jonas Salk and the polio vaccine, countless lives saved. May they some day find some scientific miracle for those of us with cancer.
And Janie, we're all in this together, we all have hope of living, we all have moments of hopelessness and why me, we dust ourselves off, and we all do the best we can, we keep moving forward, hoping for that NED or at least an extension of our lives, hope is really a good part of our lives once we're diagnosed with Stage IV colon cancer. It's making sure that we don't go off the abyss in searching for quackery cures that should keep us wary of baking soda and maple syrup claims.
And Janie, my first post titled "Janie" was ONLY in response to your "praying" for me not to run out of chemo options, you know, the one above my first post, not anything else you posted, just that one, I apparently forgot to mention how kind of you that was, to pray for me not to run out of options. So one chemo head to another, I have no idea what most of your post was in response to, but that's probably as I said, just my chemo head not understanding.
Winter Marie0 -
The adding Baking Soda came
The adding Baking Soda came from a Max Gerson, MD diet. There are many addendums to the Original Gerson Diet that added a lot of studies and a lot of science.
The lowering of the bodies Ph is actually the reduction of SALT and the addition of Potassium. This will change the Intestinal Ph to more alkali. It is not a great variance, yet less sugar and salt in the intestinal tract promotes good bacteria, so, less bad bacteria and better digestion. (Also Potassium is for good brain and nervous system health. Anyone whom has done Chemo, Potassium is a good thing.)
This is thought to help the body heal itself. The Maple syrup and baking soda is in the Juicing Diet to promote good bacteria health and is not recommended for cancer because of the sugar. Worse case the food you add the baking soda will be spritzy and taste bitter, best you will have better health. Kind of a low risk thing to try.
I am still reading about juicing and doing it at home. I have learned a lot and still have a lot to learn I am sure. If someone has different or additional information, I would love to read it.
Best Always, mike0 -
Be careful
It is simple and cheap and I do believe an increased Ph will kill cancer but will your body let you pull it off? The body constantly strives for optimal Ph. Its not a very negotiable number. Arterial Ph is 7.35-7.45. Your body will keep restoring your Ph to this number. You may be able to get it up for a short time but a working body will get it back to normal. I too have tried the Ph thing but I am cautiously skeptic. I have used cesium Chloride under the care of a doctor to do this. I only do this during chemo breaks. Chemo and cesium do not mix for me. I hope it works for you but just be careful and let your Dr. know. He may think the stress on your body as it tries to restore you to normal may be too much. Good Luck. Simple sodium bicarb ( pure baking soda) will raise your Ph but for how long? Please keep us posted. I will be very interested to see if this works.
Lori0
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