Neanderthal medicine

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Hard12Find
Hard12Find Member Posts: 218 Member
Does it amaze you all as much as it does me, that in this age of incredible medical discoveries, microscopic surgeries, lasers, robots, medication, gene therapy etc, that treatment for cancer is like beating your body with a huge club, until nothing would want to live in it? How and who would have ever expected a toxic mess of chemicals and searing radiation to work, and why......just rambling night time thoughts.
Jim

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  • katenorwood
    katenorwood Member Posts: 1,912
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    Ramble away !
    Jim,
    I think that most of the world poulation, including all of our medical proffession would agree with your statememnts. Trials are going on all over the world to improve things for all of us. Life seems pretty tough right now, but it's still the cards we've been dealt. I'm a star trek fan, and as Bones use to say Barbarian...wouldn't it be wonderful if the day comes when medicine and scifi catch one another. Stick with things and keep your head up ! Will be thinking of you ! Katie
  • luvofmylif
    luvofmylif Member Posts: 344
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    I have been having the same
    I have been having the same thought. To me, radiation just seems so barbaric, especially to the head and neck where the lifelong consequences are so harsh.
  • D Lewis
    D Lewis Member Posts: 1,581 Member
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    Ya i've wondered this too.
    Cut, burn and poison. My daughter and I have discussed this a few times. Cancer isn't a single disease, its many diseases. And, its different from all other diseases, because it's kind of like 'cell reproduction gone crazy.' We can't stop cell reproduction, because we'd be stopping life. It's like we have to fix it on a case by case basis, and reinvent a cure for every single individual who gets cancer.

    Deb
  • blackswampboy
    blackswampboy Member Posts: 341
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    mouse antibodies
    understand what you're saying...but some cancer tx has moved up to at least the bronze age. ;-)
    I'm thinking of erbitux, which is a mouse/human antibody. the short version is that the antibody binds to cancer cell receptors and blocks the cell divide signal. clever stuff.
    neanderthals preferred to eat mice, didn't use their DNA.

    now if we could just get rid of radiation.
  • Greend
    Greend Member Posts: 678
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    Didn't work with ex-wife
    I tried to make it so painful that she would leave but noooooo - I too wonder why? :>)
  • osmotar
    osmotar Member Posts: 1,006
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    Agreed
    ...but big club beating me, poison going thru my body,not sure of the how's and why's, just know that for now it's worked for me.

    Linda
  • fisrpotpe
    fisrpotpe Member Posts: 1,349 Member
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    doc said
    doc said to me the day i was told i have cancer, "cancer may not kill you but the radiation and treatment will" that was 16 plus years and and the gift keeps on giving

    john
  • Skiffin16
    Skiffin16 Member Posts: 8,305 Member
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    Speaking of Which....
    Like mentioned, I too have said, "If the cancer doesn't kill you, the treatment will come close".

    Have you looked at the origins of many of the chemo drugs?

    Taxotere

    •In the early 1960s scientists at Research Triangle Institute (RTI) in North Carolina observe anticancer activity in bark samples of the Pacific yew tree

    •In 1971 RTI researchers identify paclitaxel as the active ingredient in Pacific yew tree bark and publish structural data

    •In 1986 scientists use a semi-synthetic conversion from precursors of paclitaxel to develop docetaxel out of European yew needles

    •In 1996 docetaxel, now called Taxotere®, is approved by the FDA

    Cisplatin

    •Cisplatin is platinum-based and was the first medicine developed in that drug class. Other drugs in this class include carboplatin, a drug with fewer and less severe side effects introduced in the 1980s.

    •Cisplatin was actually first created in the mid 19th Century and is also known as Peyrone's chloride. (The disoverer was Michel Peyrone.) It wasn't until the 1960s that scientists started getting interested in its biological effects, and cisplatin went ito clinical trials for cancer therapy in 1971. By the late 1970s it was already widely used and is still used today despite the many newer chemotherapy drugs developed over the past decades.

    •Cisplatin is called the “penicillin of cancer” because it is used so widely and it was the first big chemotherapy drug. Cisplatin also plays an interesting role in the history of chemistry. First synthesized in the 1800s, long before anyone thought of using it against cancer, cisplatin is a target compound chemists use to prove their moxie in inorganic synthesis. The shape and symbols of the molecule as represented in that discipline's iconography is aesthetically pleasing which is another reason people like to talk about cisplatin.

    Fluorouracil (5-FU or f5U)

    •In 1954 Abraham Cantarow and Karl Paschkis found liver tumors absorbed radioactive uracil more readily than normal liver cells. Charles Heidelberger, who had earlier found that fluorine in fluoroacetic acid inhibited a vital enzyme, asked Robert Duschinsky and Robert Schnitzer at Hoffman-La Roche to synthesize fluorouracil.[16] Some credit Heidelberger and Duschinsky with the discovery that 5-fluorouracil markedly inhibited tumors in mice.

    JG
  • fisrpotpe
    fisrpotpe Member Posts: 1,349 Member
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    Skiffin16 said:

    Speaking of Which....
    Like mentioned, I too have said, "If the cancer doesn't kill you, the treatment will come close".

    Have you looked at the origins of many of the chemo drugs?

    Taxotere

    •In the early 1960s scientists at Research Triangle Institute (RTI) in North Carolina observe anticancer activity in bark samples of the Pacific yew tree

    •In 1971 RTI researchers identify paclitaxel as the active ingredient in Pacific yew tree bark and publish structural data

    •In 1986 scientists use a semi-synthetic conversion from precursors of paclitaxel to develop docetaxel out of European yew needles

    •In 1996 docetaxel, now called Taxotere®, is approved by the FDA

    Cisplatin

    •Cisplatin is platinum-based and was the first medicine developed in that drug class. Other drugs in this class include carboplatin, a drug with fewer and less severe side effects introduced in the 1980s.

    •Cisplatin was actually first created in the mid 19th Century and is also known as Peyrone's chloride. (The disoverer was Michel Peyrone.) It wasn't until the 1960s that scientists started getting interested in its biological effects, and cisplatin went ito clinical trials for cancer therapy in 1971. By the late 1970s it was already widely used and is still used today despite the many newer chemotherapy drugs developed over the past decades.

    •Cisplatin is called the “penicillin of cancer” because it is used so widely and it was the first big chemotherapy drug. Cisplatin also plays an interesting role in the history of chemistry. First synthesized in the 1800s, long before anyone thought of using it against cancer, cisplatin is a target compound chemists use to prove their moxie in inorganic synthesis. The shape and symbols of the molecule as represented in that discipline's iconography is aesthetically pleasing which is another reason people like to talk about cisplatin.

    Fluorouracil (5-FU or f5U)

    •In 1954 Abraham Cantarow and Karl Paschkis found liver tumors absorbed radioactive uracil more readily than normal liver cells. Charles Heidelberger, who had earlier found that fluorine in fluoroacetic acid inhibited a vital enzyme, asked Robert Duschinsky and Robert Schnitzer at Hoffman-La Roche to synthesize fluorouracil.[16] Some credit Heidelberger and Duschinsky with the discovery that 5-fluorouracil markedly inhibited tumors in mice.

    JG

    for me
    for me it was Cisplatin and 5-FU

    great information John

    oh ya and for me back in dinasor years i was given both 24 hours per day for 4 1/2 days in hospital every three weeks 3 times
  • Tim6003
    Tim6003 Member Posts: 1,514 Member
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    fisrpotpe said:

    for me
    for me it was Cisplatin and 5-FU

    great information John

    oh ya and for me back in dinasor years i was given both 24 hours per day for 4 1/2 days in hospital every three weeks 3 times

    John...what about some history on Erbitux ????
    Come on now ..don't leave that one out .... ???


    Tim ;)
  • CivilMatt
    CivilMatt Member Posts: 4,723 Member
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    no joking here
    Hi Jim,

    I took a wrong turn and opened the wrong door at the cancer center the other day and low-n-behold I stumbled on a meeting of the cancers. They were all smoking, drinking, laughing and comparing notes on the different forms of treatments being tried on them. Since I didn’t want any part of it I quickly departed, but did come away with the sense that while not “on the ropes” they are taking a beating and their plenty afraid of DNA and nanotechnology coming down the road.

    While some of us may not benefit from the future we will have to get by with a toxic mess of chemicals and searing radiation. By-the-way, during the first two weeks of radiation (before losing my taste buds) I would sneak a couple of wieners in under my mask and they turned out perfect.

    Best,

    Matt
  • Skiffin16
    Skiffin16 Member Posts: 8,305 Member
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    Tim6003 said:

    John...what about some history on Erbitux ????
    Come on now ..don't leave that one out .... ???


    Tim ;)

    My Four
    Sorry, LOL... I had just zeroed in on the four that I had;

    Cisplatin
    Taxotere
    5FU
    Carboplatin

    But since you asked, I forgot about this;

    Erbitux

    Erbitux may be best known in the general population as the drug that sent Martha Stewart to jail, but elsewhere, people have moved on. Since the insider-trading scandal that roped in the doyenne of domesticity.

    JG
  • D Lewis
    D Lewis Member Posts: 1,581 Member
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    CivilMatt said:

    no joking here
    Hi Jim,

    I took a wrong turn and opened the wrong door at the cancer center the other day and low-n-behold I stumbled on a meeting of the cancers. They were all smoking, drinking, laughing and comparing notes on the different forms of treatments being tried on them. Since I didn’t want any part of it I quickly departed, but did come away with the sense that while not “on the ropes” they are taking a beating and their plenty afraid of DNA and nanotechnology coming down the road.

    While some of us may not benefit from the future we will have to get by with a toxic mess of chemicals and searing radiation. By-the-way, during the first two weeks of radiation (before losing my taste buds) I would sneak a couple of wieners in under my mask and they turned out perfect.

    Best,

    Matt

    marshmallows for me
    Nice fluffy padding to start... perfectly browned and melted at the end. Of course, getting them unstuck from my face was a daily issue.

    :) Deb
  • blackswampboy
    blackswampboy Member Posts: 341
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    Tim6003 said:

    John...what about some history on Erbitux ????
    Come on now ..don't leave that one out .... ???


    Tim ;)

    Martha Stewart doesn't love Erbitux
    I'm not John, but I nevertheless have some of Erbitux's scandalous and juicy history:

    --Developed by Dr. John Mendelsohn (Director of M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, TX) and Dr. Gordon H. Sato (University of California at San Diego, CA).

    --Approval rejected by the FDA in December 2001, due to deficiencies in the design of the clinical trial.
    Martha Stewart obtained inside info that ImClone sales were going to drop due to the Erbitux approval rejection and she sold all shares of her ImClone stock on December 27, 2001. The next day, the stock value fell 16%.

    --Approved by the FDA in the USA and in Europe for metastatic colorectal cancer in 2004.

    --Approved by the FDA in 2006 for locally advanced Squamous Cell Carcinoma of the head and neck.
  • Tonsil Dad
    Tonsil Dad Member Posts: 488
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    D Lewis said:

    marshmallows for me
    Nice fluffy padding to start... perfectly browned and melted at the end. Of course, getting them unstuck from my face was a daily issue.

    :) Deb

    MD Anderson
    Have already started there research into DNA and Nanotechnology. They have
    just been given $3 billion to research each persons individual dna and "immune
    system" to repond better to threats that invade the body, the nanotechnology
    "programs" the immune system to act and remember for future invaders.
    Now I've said this many posts and please I'm am not here to solicite or get
    people to be in my wifes business or anythiing like that, I am telling you about
    a product that is already here and yes it is in the "PDR, Phyicians Desk Referance"
    but a doctor will never tell you about this as they don't make any money from
    natural products. This product was discovered in 1949 by Dr H Sherwood Lawrence,
    he transfered one persons immunity to another. The best start you can give a baby
    is to breast feed them, thus the "collostrum" or first milk contains Transfer Factors
    which are the building blocks to your immune system. Transfer Factor Plus not only
    elevates the Immune system but it Educates it, it's the three R's (Recognize, Reponds
    and Remembers).

    I am a cancer " surviver" the same as everyone of us on this board and people get
    put in your life for a reason and I got put on this board for a reason to tell people
    about this product " Transfer Factor Plus" .
    Please don't condem me for this post but we all seem to agree that treatment is
    brutal and if this product can save or help anyone going through this well it
    should be shouted from the rooftops. The FDA and Big Pharma don't want you to
    know about this as there is nothing in it for them, that is why MD Anderson is trying
    to come up with something "chemically" made so there will be.

    I can be contacted through the CSN emil or my presonell email on
    my profile page for more info.

    God bless
    Tonsil dad,

    Dan.