Disguising Lidocaine

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NoDuck
NoDuck Member Posts: 134
No, I do not have a pediatric cancer patient but I'm at wits end. Hubby got sick on his first dose of Magic Mouthwash and now will not even try it. It makes him gag. We talked to the doctor today and he prescribed lidocaine only and I'm picking that up in a bit. But he is already indicating he KNOWS it will make him sick. Any ideas for disguising it? He is in this 3rd week of rads (stage 3 tonsil) and is exclusive peg feeding as of this weekend because of this throat. He has a yeast infection and is taking diflucaine(sp?)

Doc had me up the tube feedings and dilute 50/50 with water to try to get him hydrated. He's dehydrated, has been for more than a week. Keeps a temp between 99 and 99.6. He says his appetite is good now but he just can't tolerate the swallowing. He says throat is sore all the time but tolerable. When he tries to eat anything, cream of wheat, ice cream, popscile etc, his throat burns and his pain level shoots to 9. He has always had a high pain tolerance so 9 is very significant for him.

I thought about hiding it in some kind of food but guess I gotta get the food in him first. Jello shots? Soak his Popsicles? I have a call in to a hypnotherapist but she's on vacation. Any thoughts appreciated

Deb

Comments

  • meaganb
    meaganb Member Posts: 244 Member
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    Is it the taste that gets
    Is it the taste that gets him or the texture? I lost my sense of taste pretty early on, but the thickness of lidocaine is what bothered me, although it didn't make me throw up. I could be wrong but it might be hard to disguise the lidocaine. The package I had said it had an orange flavor too it though so maybe he won't have such an aversion to the pure Lidocaine vs. the MM. It's the consistency of honey so that's why I think it would be hard to disguise it, but I could definitely be wrong. I'm sorry your husband seems to be having such hard time. I'll be praying things improve soon. :) oh, an he will need much less of the Lidocaine vs the MM to numb himself. My RO prescribed a Tbl of MM, but I only needed a tea of Lidocaine and the numbness usually lasted much longer.
  • NoDuck
    NoDuck Member Posts: 134
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    meaganb said:

    Is it the taste that gets
    Is it the taste that gets him or the texture? I lost my sense of taste pretty early on, but the thickness of lidocaine is what bothered me, although it didn't make me throw up. I could be wrong but it might be hard to disguise the lidocaine. The package I had said it had an orange flavor too it though so maybe he won't have such an aversion to the pure Lidocaine vs. the MM. It's the consistency of honey so that's why I think it would be hard to disguise it, but I could definitely be wrong. I'm sorry your husband seems to be having such hard time. I'll be praying things improve soon. :) oh, an he will need much less of the Lidocaine vs the MM to numb himself. My RO prescribed a Tbl of MM, but I only needed a tea of Lidocaine and the numbness usually lasted much longer.

    Taste and texture
    He says it is both. And then he has it in his head that since the one and only time he used MM he gagged, that he is always going to gag.

    Bullheadedness used to one of his endearing qualities :)

    Deb
  • phrannie51
    phrannie51 Member Posts: 4,716
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    I don't know, Deb, how one would disguise Lidocaine....
    but one thing about plain lidocaine, the numbing would be faster than when it's diluted like it is in MM.

    As for the dehydration...are you pushing a lot of water thru his tube? You could set him up for 8 ozs every hour or hour and a half, and get a LOT of water into him that way. Dehydration is so subtle in how it makes a person feel bad. Weak, tired, nauseated...they don't FEEL thirsty, just crappy. When I was ultra dehydrated, I pushed myself to drink PLUS I was pushing it thru the tube...spent half my life on pot that week, but amazingly the other "feel bad" stuff disappeared. He might find that once he's truly hydrated, the gagging will disappear or modify.

    p
  • CivilMatt
    CivilMatt Member Posts: 4,723 Member
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    painful help
    Hi NoDuck,

    I sound like the spokesman for magic moth wash I liked it (and used it) so much. Week 3 was where my taste buds starting turning off and the mm use picked up. I only used 3, 5 or at the most 10 mls at a time. I put it in my mouth and just swallowed tiny bits at a time. Since my taste buds were off I could not taste it. Now at 12 weeks post I have enough taste buds back to wonder how in the world I could ever have ingested as much magic mouth wash as I did. I am telling you from the heart, any discomfort I had from the taste of mm was far out weighed by the relief it provided.

    As for the Lidocaine gel, I used it for mouth sores and did not notice the taste at all. I would prefer you did not disguise your husband’s medicines, but if you do make sure it is approved by the doctor.

    If you can, do not let him quit drinking water or some form of liquid. The drinking of fluids is to promote swallowing. If needed, his hydration can be through the PEG, as you mentioned.

    I know he is in pain and I am sorry that he has to go through this ordeal. This is the part it is hard to plan for and harder to get ready for. Best of luck to both of you.

    Partner in pain,

    Matt
  • phrannie51
    phrannie51 Member Posts: 4,716
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    CivilMatt said:

    painful help
    Hi NoDuck,

    I sound like the spokesman for magic moth wash I liked it (and used it) so much. Week 3 was where my taste buds starting turning off and the mm use picked up. I only used 3, 5 or at the most 10 mls at a time. I put it in my mouth and just swallowed tiny bits at a time. Since my taste buds were off I could not taste it. Now at 12 weeks post I have enough taste buds back to wonder how in the world I could ever have ingested as much magic mouth wash as I did. I am telling you from the heart, any discomfort I had from the taste of mm was far out weighed by the relief it provided.

    As for the Lidocaine gel, I used it for mouth sores and did not notice the taste at all. I would prefer you did not disguise your husband’s medicines, but if you do make sure it is approved by the doctor.

    If you can, do not let him quit drinking water or some form of liquid. The drinking of fluids is to promote swallowing. If needed, his hydration can be through the PEG, as you mentioned.

    I know he is in pain and I am sorry that he has to go through this ordeal. This is the part it is hard to plan for and harder to get ready for. Best of luck to both of you.

    Partner in pain,

    Matt

    Ya know....Ingrid got a snow cone machine
    Bed, Bathroom and Beyond....it makes ice so "crushed", he might be able to ingest enough via his mouth to keep his swallower going. That's the one thing from beginning to end, that I promised myself...I would not lose the ability to swallow (way to hard getting it back)...It would be hell going thru all this radiation & surgery....heal up from it to find out you now needed to get lessons on HOW to swallow again.

    p
  • NoDuck
    NoDuck Member Posts: 134
    Options
    CivilMatt said:

    painful help
    Hi NoDuck,

    I sound like the spokesman for magic moth wash I liked it (and used it) so much. Week 3 was where my taste buds starting turning off and the mm use picked up. I only used 3, 5 or at the most 10 mls at a time. I put it in my mouth and just swallowed tiny bits at a time. Since my taste buds were off I could not taste it. Now at 12 weeks post I have enough taste buds back to wonder how in the world I could ever have ingested as much magic mouth wash as I did. I am telling you from the heart, any discomfort I had from the taste of mm was far out weighed by the relief it provided.

    As for the Lidocaine gel, I used it for mouth sores and did not notice the taste at all. I would prefer you did not disguise your husband’s medicines, but if you do make sure it is approved by the doctor.

    If you can, do not let him quit drinking water or some form of liquid. The drinking of fluids is to promote swallowing. If needed, his hydration can be through the PEG, as you mentioned.

    I know he is in pain and I am sorry that he has to go through this ordeal. This is the part it is hard to plan for and harder to get ready for. Best of luck to both of you.

    Partner in pain,

    Matt

    Plan B
    All that effort to try to figure out some way to get the lidocaine down his throat (doc's the one who suggested to be innovative in trying to get it in him) was for naught since our WM pharmacy didn't have any!

    RN friend says there is lidocaine spray and lidocaine lozenges we may try. I got some of the over the counter numbing throat sprays and lozenges. Haven't got those in him yet.

    We are diluting 8 oz. FiberSource with 8 oz. water and feeding every 30 minutes for a few hours. We will see how that goes.

    Getting THE HAIRCUT tomorrow. Cancer Center has a salon. His hair is not falling out but the texture has drastically changed so he is ready for the really short cut.

    I told them at work this afternoon that they would probably only talk with me from now on via technology. Thank goodness I can't get fired -- I'm the boss! Fighting Cancer is a full time job.

    Deb
  • NoDuck
    NoDuck Member Posts: 134
    Options
    CivilMatt said:

    painful help
    Hi NoDuck,

    I sound like the spokesman for magic moth wash I liked it (and used it) so much. Week 3 was where my taste buds starting turning off and the mm use picked up. I only used 3, 5 or at the most 10 mls at a time. I put it in my mouth and just swallowed tiny bits at a time. Since my taste buds were off I could not taste it. Now at 12 weeks post I have enough taste buds back to wonder how in the world I could ever have ingested as much magic mouth wash as I did. I am telling you from the heart, any discomfort I had from the taste of mm was far out weighed by the relief it provided.

    As for the Lidocaine gel, I used it for mouth sores and did not notice the taste at all. I would prefer you did not disguise your husband’s medicines, but if you do make sure it is approved by the doctor.

    If you can, do not let him quit drinking water or some form of liquid. The drinking of fluids is to promote swallowing. If needed, his hydration can be through the PEG, as you mentioned.

    I know he is in pain and I am sorry that he has to go through this ordeal. This is the part it is hard to plan for and harder to get ready for. Best of luck to both of you.

    Partner in pain,

    Matt

    Plan B
    All that effort to try to figure out some way to get the lidocaine down his throat (doc's the one who suggested to be innovative in trying to get it in him) was for naught since our WM pharmacy didn't have any!

    RN friend says there is lidocaine spray and lidocaine lozenges we may try. I got some of the over the counter numbing throat sprays and lozenges. Haven't got those in him yet.

    We are diluting 8 oz. FiberSource with 8 oz. water and feeding every 30 minutes for a few hours. We will see how that goes.

    Getting THE HAIRCUT tomorrow. Cancer Center has a salon. His hair is not falling out but the texture has drastically changed so he is ready for the really short cut.

    I told them at work this afternoon that they would probably only talk with me from now on via technology. Thank goodness I can't get fired -- I'm the boss! Fighting Cancer is a full time job.

    Deb
  • NoDuck
    NoDuck Member Posts: 134
    Options
    CivilMatt said:

    painful help
    Hi NoDuck,

    I sound like the spokesman for magic moth wash I liked it (and used it) so much. Week 3 was where my taste buds starting turning off and the mm use picked up. I only used 3, 5 or at the most 10 mls at a time. I put it in my mouth and just swallowed tiny bits at a time. Since my taste buds were off I could not taste it. Now at 12 weeks post I have enough taste buds back to wonder how in the world I could ever have ingested as much magic mouth wash as I did. I am telling you from the heart, any discomfort I had from the taste of mm was far out weighed by the relief it provided.

    As for the Lidocaine gel, I used it for mouth sores and did not notice the taste at all. I would prefer you did not disguise your husband’s medicines, but if you do make sure it is approved by the doctor.

    If you can, do not let him quit drinking water or some form of liquid. The drinking of fluids is to promote swallowing. If needed, his hydration can be through the PEG, as you mentioned.

    I know he is in pain and I am sorry that he has to go through this ordeal. This is the part it is hard to plan for and harder to get ready for. Best of luck to both of you.

    Partner in pain,

    Matt

    Plan B
    All that effort to try to figure out some way to get the lidocaine down his throat (doc's the one who suggested to be innovative in trying to get it in him) was for naught since our WM pharmacy didn't have any!

    RN friend says there is lidocaine spray and lidocaine lozenges we may try. I got some of the over the counter numbing throat sprays and lozenges. Haven't got those in him yet.

    We are diluting 8 oz. FiberSource with 8 oz. water and feeding every 30 minutes for a few hours. We will see how that goes.

    Getting THE HAIRCUT tomorrow. Cancer Center has a salon. His hair is not falling out but the texture has drastically changed so he is ready for the really short cut.

    I told them at work this afternoon that they would probably only talk with me from now on via technology. Thank goodness I can't get fired -- I'm the boss! Fighting Cancer is a full time job.

    Deb
  • NoDuck
    NoDuck Member Posts: 134
    Options
    CivilMatt said:

    painful help
    Hi NoDuck,

    I sound like the spokesman for magic moth wash I liked it (and used it) so much. Week 3 was where my taste buds starting turning off and the mm use picked up. I only used 3, 5 or at the most 10 mls at a time. I put it in my mouth and just swallowed tiny bits at a time. Since my taste buds were off I could not taste it. Now at 12 weeks post I have enough taste buds back to wonder how in the world I could ever have ingested as much magic mouth wash as I did. I am telling you from the heart, any discomfort I had from the taste of mm was far out weighed by the relief it provided.

    As for the Lidocaine gel, I used it for mouth sores and did not notice the taste at all. I would prefer you did not disguise your husband’s medicines, but if you do make sure it is approved by the doctor.

    If you can, do not let him quit drinking water or some form of liquid. The drinking of fluids is to promote swallowing. If needed, his hydration can be through the PEG, as you mentioned.

    I know he is in pain and I am sorry that he has to go through this ordeal. This is the part it is hard to plan for and harder to get ready for. Best of luck to both of you.

    Partner in pain,

    Matt

    Plan B
    All that effort to try to figure out some way to get the lidocaine down his throat (doc's the one who suggested to be innovative in trying to get it in him) was for naught since our WM pharmacy didn't have any!

    RN friend says there is lidocaine spray and lidocaine lozenges we may try. I got some of the over the counter numbing throat sprays and lozenges. Haven't got those in him yet.

    We are diluting 8 oz. FiberSource with 8 oz. water and feeding every 30 minutes for a few hours. We will see how that goes.

    Getting THE HAIRCUT tomorrow. Cancer Center has a salon. His hair is not falling out but the texture has drastically changed so he is ready for the really short cut.

    I told them at work this afternoon that they would probably only talk with me from now on via technology. Thank goodness I can't get fired -- I'm the boss! Fighting Cancer is a full time job.

    Deb
  • Ingrid K
    Ingrid K Member Posts: 813
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    NoDuck said:

    Plan B
    All that effort to try to figure out some way to get the lidocaine down his throat (doc's the one who suggested to be innovative in trying to get it in him) was for naught since our WM pharmacy didn't have any!

    RN friend says there is lidocaine spray and lidocaine lozenges we may try. I got some of the over the counter numbing throat sprays and lozenges. Haven't got those in him yet.

    We are diluting 8 oz. FiberSource with 8 oz. water and feeding every 30 minutes for a few hours. We will see how that goes.

    Getting THE HAIRCUT tomorrow. Cancer Center has a salon. His hair is not falling out but the texture has drastically changed so he is ready for the really short cut.

    I told them at work this afternoon that they would probably only talk with me from now on via technology. Thank goodness I can't get fired -- I'm the boss! Fighting Cancer is a full time job.

    Deb

    say yes to the Cone
    Deb, you are an amazing caregiver ! you've thought of all the ways you could make the lidocaine work. you're a great nurse.

    Phrannie's right. my cheap little Sno Cone maker saved the day. It kept me in crushed ice and kept my swallowing going. some times I would only "eat" one teaspoonful at a time, but I kept going at it and that also added a lot of water. Hubby would make a whole cupful at a time and worked at it for an hour and I never got hydrated. When you think you've had enough water, get some more.

    I was like your hubby, I could NOT handle the MM either, made me gag just smelling it and it would come up as quick as it went down. So I used the PEG tube and my sno cone maker, and now I am back to eating lots of things-one year past treatment.

    p.s. Bed, Bath & Beyond. Jelly Belly brand Sno Cone Maker.
  • meaganb
    meaganb Member Posts: 244 Member
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    NoDuck said:

    Plan B
    All that effort to try to figure out some way to get the lidocaine down his throat (doc's the one who suggested to be innovative in trying to get it in him) was for naught since our WM pharmacy didn't have any!

    RN friend says there is lidocaine spray and lidocaine lozenges we may try. I got some of the over the counter numbing throat sprays and lozenges. Haven't got those in him yet.

    We are diluting 8 oz. FiberSource with 8 oz. water and feeding every 30 minutes for a few hours. We will see how that goes.

    Getting THE HAIRCUT tomorrow. Cancer Center has a salon. His hair is not falling out but the texture has drastically changed so he is ready for the really short cut.

    I told them at work this afternoon that they would probably only talk with me from now on via technology. Thank goodness I can't get fired -- I'm the boss! Fighting Cancer is a full time job.

    Deb

    Not sure if this is one that
    Not sure if this is one that you picked up, but my RO recommended a numbing OTC spray called Hurricaine Sprat. My hubby bought it and said it was expensive ($40). We bought it when I had a really bad sore on the side of my tongue. I only used it once because it burned so bad in the 30 seconds before it numbed me. I preferred the MM and Lidocaine, but then again, you've got to go with what he can tolerate. Just wanted to forewarn you that some of those numbing sprays hurt pretty bad before they start working...
  • NoDuck
    NoDuck Member Posts: 134
    Options
    Ingrid K said:

    say yes to the Cone
    Deb, you are an amazing caregiver ! you've thought of all the ways you could make the lidocaine work. you're a great nurse.

    Phrannie's right. my cheap little Sno Cone maker saved the day. It kept me in crushed ice and kept my swallowing going. some times I would only "eat" one teaspoonful at a time, but I kept going at it and that also added a lot of water. Hubby would make a whole cupful at a time and worked at it for an hour and I never got hydrated. When you think you've had enough water, get some more.

    I was like your hubby, I could NOT handle the MM either, made me gag just smelling it and it would come up as quick as it went down. So I used the PEG tube and my sno cone maker, and now I am back to eating lots of things-one year past treatment.

    p.s. Bed, Bath & Beyond. Jelly Belly brand Sno Cone Maker.

    The Cone!
    What a great idea! Will be getting one this weekend.

    And thanks for letting us know you could not tolerate MM either. Dale was beginning to think he was the only one on the face of the earth who could not use it and therefore his recovery was doomed (a slight exaggeration but it's been a long day). He has new hope knowing you made it through without The Magic!

    And sorry all for the multiple posts. When I was submitting my post, it kept saying "Server Not Responding.". So I kept hitting submit, apparently three or four times!

    Deb
  • jim and i
    jim and i Member Posts: 1,788 Member
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    Deb, my hubby had an
    Deb, my hubby had an aversion to the magic mouth wash as well. He just took his pain meds in liquid form and it helped. He is not being hard headed it is just an aversion. My husband loved prune juice but got sick on it and won't touch it. Swallow therapist said it is a real thing. The MMW gagged my hubby just smelling it and I know how he feels since I myself have an aversion to certain foods because I threw up after eating them. Be patient with him, he is going through alot. We probably can't even imagine the pain and misery they are going through. I am prayong for you both.

    Debbie
  • Skiffin16
    Skiffin16 Member Posts: 8,305 Member
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    Disguising Lidocaine
    I don't really see the point so much of trying to disquise the lidocaine in food, since that's what he is trying to get in him minus the pain.

    I had the MM too, and used it most of the time.

    But if I remember correctly, the gave me a liquid hydrocodone prescribtion for the tonsils coming out. I think I used that for pain management as well for taking in calories....mainly Ensure Plus, water and a few sliced peaches for the throat reflexes.

    They also tried Roxanol, a liquid form of morphine. Bur I was with that like your hubby and the MM...plus it did nothing for my pain...

    As a side note, he really needs to stay hydrated...a lot, can't stress that enough.

    If anything will put you in the hospital quick, and delay treatment, it's de-hydration.

    Hope you find the right solution...keep the MD's informed.

    Best,
    John