for my Dad - need some advise

Tao

My Dad was diagnosed stage 1b lung cancer in 2010. He had a surgery and remove the cancer in August 2010 and removed ¼ of his lung. The surgery was good. And he had good recovery. However, in August 2011, CT found another cancer in his adrenal gland. The size was 3 cm x 2 cm and there was no other places. Doctor suggest to have another surgery. We are concern if the surgery will affect the spread. Therefore we did not take the surgery immediately at that time. But he is taking some Chinese herbal medicine and he is also changed his food to include many anti-cancer food. In Jan 2012, my dad did another CT, the cancer size becomes 3.9 cm, and still one place. Our question now is:

1. should we continue the non-surgery treatment until we have to do the surgery?
2. Is it better to remove or live with cancer if the growth is stopped or controlled?
3. Any one had good results by using Chinese herbal medicine and anti-cancer food?

My dad is 70 year old now and in general, he has good health. Thanks for any suggestion

iola_s_mom_is_so_brave

Listen to the doctor
everybody is different, it would be much better to listen to your doctor even we all know this is hard for him. Don't leave the tumor aside, as I know it grows fast...
May I know what kinda Chinese medicine he took?
Thank you a lot. I wish you and your dad all the best.

Ex_Rock_n_Roller

Amen to "Listen to the doctor"
If the doctor says surgery is indicated, it would be unwise in the extreme to ignore him, in my opinion. The odds are not great with surgery but worse without it, and many of us never had the option.

Also, going with totally unproven "treatments" (alternative "medicine," "anti-cancer" food) as a substitute for medically-accepted treatment is in my opinion irresponsible. Along WITH real treatment, OK. But if there were any compelling evidence that alternative treatments did anything at all, we'd all be living a lot longer and spending a lot less money, and the person who invented the treatment would have the Nobel prize.

Unless your intention and Dad's wishes are to put Dad in comfort care and let nature take his course, which is what going with alternative treatment alone would amount to, I'd highly recommend following the doctor's advice (even getting a second opinion if you need to).

dennycee

You have had excellent
You have had excellent advice here. I did the math, a tumor that went from 3.0 to 3.9 has grown 23% in 5 months. This is NOT a cancer that has been stopped or controlled. By all means continue your diet along with the surgery. 70 is young by today's standards. You and your dad can make many more special memories and that is my wish for you.

kado4

If the doctor thinks surgery is the answer,I would listen to him
I think that if your dad is in good shape,lab work is good, eating/drinking well,I certainly would strongly consider listening to the doctors advise. Sure, surgery is not always something wants,but looks like its going to be necessary to prevent further growth and metastasis.

Don't wait.Talk to the doctor again.I think it is excellent that your dad is using the herbal medicine and anti-cancer food. it should help him in is health and recovery. I would make sure you tell the doctor everything he takes too.

Stay strong, and good luck to your dad

Kado.

Tao

iola_s_mom_is_so_brave said:

Listen to the doctor
everybody is different, it would be much better to listen to your doctor even we all know this is hard for him. Don't leave the tumor aside, as I know it grows fast...
May I know what kinda Chinese medicine he took?
Thank you a lot. I wish you and your dad all the best.

Thank you all so much for
Thank you all so much for the comments. It is definitely not our intention to ignore doctor’s advice. What we are worry about is that, also as Ex_Rock_n_Roller mentioned in the comment, “the odds are not great with surgery”. Our logic is that if now he can still get non-surgical treatment, why we do not give a try. If later showing the non-surgical treatment does not work, we still can get surgery. Is our thinking wrong?

The medicine he is using contains 10 - 15 herbals. The names are all in Chinese.

iola_s_mom_is_so_brave

Tao said:

Thank you all so much for
Thank you all so much for the comments. It is definitely not our intention to ignore doctor’s advice. What we are worry about is that, also as Ex_Rock_n_Roller mentioned in the comment, “the odds are not great with surgery”. Our logic is that if now he can still get non-surgical treatment, why we do not give a try. If later showing the non-surgical treatment does not work, we still can get surgery. Is our thinking wrong?

The medicine he is using contains 10 - 15 herbals. The names are all in Chinese.

I can read Chinese...
Well...I am a Chinese. lol
My mom is only 58, she was diagnoised on 6th.Jan 2012, stage IV. I still believe she will be fine as I found some many miracles happened here. I pray for her everyday which can keeps me stay peaceful. In this case I can make her smile, cheer her up all the time. So maybe pray for you dad.
I truly think Chinese medicine helps since my dad got cancer 3 years ago and was cured by herbals. I know how it works, actually no need to know the exact name, I would just like to know which Chinese doctor your dad went to see and which hospital.

p.s. I am living in Shanghai. Maybe we are nearby :-)

Ex_Rock_n_Roller

Tao said:

Thank you all so much for
Thank you all so much for the comments. It is definitely not our intention to ignore doctor’s advice. What we are worry about is that, also as Ex_Rock_n_Roller mentioned in the comment, “the odds are not great with surgery”. Our logic is that if now he can still get non-surgical treatment, why we do not give a try. If later showing the non-surgical treatment does not work, we still can get surgery. Is our thinking wrong?

The medicine he is using contains 10 - 15 herbals. The names are all in Chinese.

With all due respect ...
"If later showing the non-surgical treatment does not work, we still can get surgery. Is our thinking wrong?"

Yes, I believe your thinking is wrong. The way I would phrase it is, "If he can have surgery now, now is the time to get surgery." If you wait, there is absolutely no guarantee that surgery will continue to be an option. The goal would be to remove the cancer ASAP to prevent further spread. If you wait, that may not be possible.

It doesn't make sense to me not to follow the doctor's recommendation, unless you are really opting for no treatment. That's a valid decision, but it doesn't sound like that is what you intend.

And again, with all due respect, herbals are not medicine (at least not so far as cancer is concerned).

iola_s_mom_is_so_brave

Ex_Rock_n_Roller said:

With all due respect ...
"If later showing the non-surgical treatment does not work, we still can get surgery. Is our thinking wrong?"

Yes, I believe your thinking is wrong. The way I would phrase it is, "If he can have surgery now, now is the time to get surgery." If you wait, there is absolutely no guarantee that surgery will continue to be an option. The goal would be to remove the cancer ASAP to prevent further spread. If you wait, that may not be possible.

It doesn't make sense to me not to follow the doctor's recommendation, unless you are really opting for no treatment. That's a valid decision, but it doesn't sound like that is what you intend.

And again, with all due respect, herbals are not medicine (at least not so far as cancer is concerned).

dont get me wrong
I didn't mean 'dont listen to the doctor' if you check back you would see my first post 'pls listen to your doctor'
My dad is a doctor in hospital as well, his surgery was successfully done by the best doctor in China.
I might used some non-accurate words and skipped some parts of the whole story. Sorry for my English too.
In fact after surgery, dad has been taking herbals for 3 years, CT scan or X-ray all showed his is fully recovered. Herbals can reduce the pain, some people use it as second line medicine.
I would never give any suggestions based on nothing and of course people have their rights to listen to others. I know and understand as my mom is also suffering from lung cancer, stage IV.
Hopefully above all those things I said didn't offend you.

Ex_Rock_n_Roller

iola_s_mom_is_so_brave said:

dont get me wrong
I didn't mean 'dont listen to the doctor' if you check back you would see my first post 'pls listen to your doctor'
My dad is a doctor in hospital as well, his surgery was successfully done by the best doctor in China.
I might used some non-accurate words and skipped some parts of the whole story. Sorry for my English too.
In fact after surgery, dad has been taking herbals for 3 years, CT scan or X-ray all showed his is fully recovered. Herbals can reduce the pain, some people use it as second line medicine.
I would never give any suggestions based on nothing and of course people have their rights to listen to others. I know and understand as my mom is also suffering from lung cancer, stage IV.
Hopefully above all those things I said didn't offend you.

Iola,
I tacked my response onto your last post by mistake. I was specifically addressing Tao's "Is our thinking wrong" (regarding delayed surgery) question. I also agree there is no problem with alternative medicines along with first-line treatment.

No harm, no foul.

iola_s_mom_is_so_brave

Ex_Rock_n_Roller said:

Iola,
I tacked my response onto your last post by mistake. I was specifically addressing Tao's "Is our thinking wrong" (regarding delayed surgery) question. I also agree there is no problem with alternative medicines along with first-line treatment.

No harm, no foul.

no problem :-)
haha. no problem then. I wondered if you know Tarceva? It's so expensive in China, I just asked a friend in NY to ask for the price in U.S.

Tao

Ex_Rock_n_Roller said:

With all due respect ...
"If later showing the non-surgical treatment does not work, we still can get surgery. Is our thinking wrong?"

Yes, I believe your thinking is wrong. The way I would phrase it is, "If he can have surgery now, now is the time to get surgery." If you wait, there is absolutely no guarantee that surgery will continue to be an option. The goal would be to remove the cancer ASAP to prevent further spread. If you wait, that may not be possible.

It doesn't make sense to me not to follow the doctor's recommendation, unless you are really opting for no treatment. That's a valid decision, but it doesn't sound like that is what you intend.

And again, with all due respect, herbals are not medicine (at least not so far as cancer is concerned).

That is our dilemma. Does
That is our dilemma. Does removing necessary means "prevent further spread"? We are not sure. We see so many cases that, after the surgery, the cancer is coming back more aggressively.

Tao

iola_s_mom_is_so_brave said:

I can read Chinese...
Well...I am a Chinese. lol
My mom is only 58, she was diagnoised on 6th.Jan 2012, stage IV. I still believe she will be fine as I found some many miracles happened here. I pray for her everyday which can keeps me stay peaceful. In this case I can make her smile, cheer her up all the time. So maybe pray for you dad.
I truly think Chinese medicine helps since my dad got cancer 3 years ago and was cured by herbals. I know how it works, actually no need to know the exact name, I would just like to know which Chinese doctor your dad went to see and which hospital.

p.s. I am living in Shanghai. Maybe we are nearby :-)

Hi, we use to live in
Hi, we use to live in Shanghai. But now both my parents have moved to the States. My father had first lung surgery in US. But he made a trip to China after CT finding in August last year. He wants to check with some Chinese medicine doctors. But, the answers we received are more confusion. Maybe we put too much faith on the Chinese medicine.

I know he went to one hospital in Shanghai and couple in Beijing. I need to get the names from him if you like to know.

Thanks for the encouragement, and wish your mom the best as well.

Ex_Rock_n_Roller

Tao said:

That is our dilemma. Does
That is our dilemma. Does removing necessary means "prevent further spread"? We are not sure. We see so many cases that, after the surgery, the cancer is coming back more aggressively.

It is not really a dilemma
There is no treatment that is guaranteed to prevent further spread, but surgery is the best option for that. Statistically, all other therapies have worse outcomes than surgery. And having surgery does not mean that you can't have the other options, too. But if you wait until surgery is impossible, then you will have thrown away what has shown to be the most effective option.

This disease does tend to spread and come back aggressively in a lot of cases, so it doesn't make sense to bypass good options that are available.

Just my opinions based on what I understand of the facts.

snowdancer

One more thing
I agree with all the comments on listening to the doctor, but would like to add one thing. By all means have him eat the cancer fighting foods, but also stop eating the cancer causing foods. Unfortunetly what foods those are will probably bring up lots of opinions and arguements.

Bruce