"I'll discuss the possibility of the existence of god when someone can define the term"

soccerfreaks

(Paraphrase of a John Lloyd quote)

An interesting notion, wouldn't you say? The man was actually providing a lecture to some very bright folks about that which is invisible to us and doing so in a serio-comic way. But it IS an interesting notion: When we discuss a deity or deities we are clearly not on the same page, and I am certain that even applies within a specific religion, a specific branch of a religion, even within a specific physical church. The person sitting next to you in the pew probabaly has at least some difference in view regarding what god is (gods are), the same sort of problem we have with expressing ourselves: what I say, you take meaning from within your own context, which is apt to be at least somewhat different than what I meant, given my personal history with the words I use, the shading I provide through my memories and experiences.

Just an out-of-the-blue thought.

Take care,

Joe

PhillieG

I Hear You Knocking...
But don't understand the penalty flag at all...
I've been watching shows on the History channel (I don't mean ancient aliens) and one dealt with the priests who are scientists and astronomers. They were making references to how (some) people try to compare the Bible and the stories inside of it to science books. You can't.
There are many interpretations of various Holy books. We each experience things differently as you said Joe. Two people can view an event together yet explain it totally differently...Same planet, different worlds? People will take what they want from things even if it's not how it was intended.

orgonemind

Is there a god
There are many pathways towards that Question, the Sumerian texs in refering to the Anankai suggest that we are as a result of IVF, whereas if you seach the internet 'Russion Boy recals past life as a Martian, our souls come through many different pathways, that leaves us in many blank spaces.
We only see us in our current belief pattens and not able to step out of those belief pattens, So is there a God, an invisible benifactor who we can blame for all that goes wrong, I dont belive so, lets just say that we are all god.

RE

:-)
I think I agree with you Joe...hmmmm :-). It is my belief that those who have a relationship with God have just that a personal relationship with God. It is between them and the Lord. Yes the Bible is there and we know the standards to which we are to strive but my relationship with God is not going to be exactly like someone else, similar perhaps but never exact. For instance I know God wants us to witness to others so that they too may come to know God but I do not and will not push it on someone, not my style and not what I think God had in mind, others however will and that is their walk. I once had a pastor who felt women were to be in dresses, and adorned the weaker of the sex thing. He once asked me to go knocking on doors with the ladies to spread the good word, I declined. He asked why and I told him it was not me, it was not my walk. I told him God put tomboy me here to reach other more casual folks who could relate to my style my walk and my relationship with God differed from his view and he was okay with that, we have a great admiration for the things we have learned from each other. Okay I am rambling again. The point I am making is that it is my experience that God speaks to each of us differently, how odd it would be if we all heard exactly the same thing.

katenorwood

RE said:

:-)
I think I agree with you Joe...hmmmm :-). It is my belief that those who have a relationship with God have just that a personal relationship with God. It is between them and the Lord. Yes the Bible is there and we know the standards to which we are to strive but my relationship with God is not going to be exactly like someone else, similar perhaps but never exact. For instance I know God wants us to witness to others so that they too may come to know God but I do not and will not push it on someone, not my style and not what I think God had in mind, others however will and that is their walk. I once had a pastor who felt women were to be in dresses, and adorned the weaker of the sex thing. He once asked me to go knocking on doors with the ladies to spread the good word, I declined. He asked why and I told him it was not me, it was not my walk. I told him God put tomboy me here to reach other more casual folks who could relate to my style my walk and my relationship with God differed from his view and he was okay with that, we have a great admiration for the things we have learned from each other. Okay I am rambling again. The point I am making is that it is my experience that God speaks to each of us differently, how odd it would be if we all heard exactly the same thing.

agree...
Hello everyone,
I use to attend mass on a regular basis....but no longer do this. My church is in my heart...and in the beautiful nature that God has provided us. When I have bad days, I go to a lake or stream and ponder on my life...have I done good things...bad things....important things. I guess in the end we will all find the answers we are looking for. No one person can answer these questions for us....just my own opinion, thanks for yours. Katie

soccerfreaks

BUT
Back to the nitty gritty...which I lost in my original rambling...when we argue/debate/discuss, we are usually in agreement about certain rules, about certain definitions, else we could not communicate at all: we must, for example, agree that within a certain range this color will be called yellow and that one will be known as red. So in discussions regarding god, is there a definition that we can agree upon? I think the guy I quoted was suggesting that we can not even agree on the definition, so how can we at the same time adamantly insist that we can argue/debate/discuss its existence? And, in this context I am taking religion out of the equation, as it only adds subtext that diverts from the essence of the question: god?

Take care,

Joe

PhillieG

soccerfreaks said:

BUT
Back to the nitty gritty...which I lost in my original rambling...when we argue/debate/discuss, we are usually in agreement about certain rules, about certain definitions, else we could not communicate at all: we must, for example, agree that within a certain range this color will be called yellow and that one will be known as red. So in discussions regarding god, is there a definition that we can agree upon? I think the guy I quoted was suggesting that we can not even agree on the definition, so how can we at the same time adamantly insist that we can argue/debate/discuss its existence? And, in this context I am taking religion out of the equation, as it only adds subtext that diverts from the essence of the question: god?

Take care,

Joe

Double Butt
It's funny that you use color as an example Joe since when things appear a certain color, they are just reflecting that color while all of the other colors are absorbed by that object. The irony that I see is that things aren't always what people think they are, sometimes it's the opposite.
:-)

I doubt that humankind will ever agree on a definition of god, it could lead to (gulp) peace and we can't ever have that happen!
-phil

katenorwood

soccerfreaks said:

BUT
Back to the nitty gritty...which I lost in my original rambling...when we argue/debate/discuss, we are usually in agreement about certain rules, about certain definitions, else we could not communicate at all: we must, for example, agree that within a certain range this color will be called yellow and that one will be known as red. So in discussions regarding god, is there a definition that we can agree upon? I think the guy I quoted was suggesting that we can not even agree on the definition, so how can we at the same time adamantly insist that we can argue/debate/discuss its existence? And, in this context I am taking religion out of the equation, as it only adds subtext that diverts from the essence of the question: god?

Take care,

Joe

Agreed!
Joe,
The journey we each are on in this life has a different path....man if we could all agree to disagree and never push opinions on one another it would be fantastic. I feel old and worn out...and from day to day, my opinions differ. Red to me might be blue for you, and to me that's all good. I love seriously to read posts like these, makes you ponder on how to use this darn old brain to look at life in a new light. To me (GOD) faith whatever that means to each individual is a personal journey and search, inside of ourselves...I don't think that we will ever know for sure until we are gone from this old world. I know facing my mothers death 2 yrs ago....I wanted to take this BS from her. She had fears, and man she was an excellant person. All the best to you Joe, on your journey...I'm doing the best I can each and every step through this journey. Katie

mariam_11_09

soccerfreaks said:

BUT
Back to the nitty gritty...which I lost in my original rambling...when we argue/debate/discuss, we are usually in agreement about certain rules, about certain definitions, else we could not communicate at all: we must, for example, agree that within a certain range this color will be called yellow and that one will be known as red. So in discussions regarding god, is there a definition that we can agree upon? I think the guy I quoted was suggesting that we can not even agree on the definition, so how can we at the same time adamantly insist that we can argue/debate/discuss its existence? And, in this context I am taking religion out of the equation, as it only adds subtext that diverts from the essence of the question: god?

Take care,

Joe

It is so personal, that is,

It is so personal, that is, what God means to me, might be something different to someone else even though we might follow the same religion. I often find with fellow Muslims I have a very different experience/belief/understanding/relationship with Allah. Sometimes I even question if what I believe is actually real. I have deluded myself so many times in the past, how do I know I am not deluding myself right now? I don't know! Its a mystery.