Not sure what to do, feel or say.

ms.sunshine

I need some wisdom.

My mom last year was dx with cervical cancer. She went through surgery, chemo, and rads. She had a terrible time especially with the surgery. She still has pain. She believes the cancer has come back, in fact she's comvinced of it. She will have a PET Scan the end of this week. She says she's experiencing the same symptoms, the same pain as before drs. diagnosed her. There's a big tumor in her lower abdomen.

She has informed all of us that if the dr. says "cancer" that she won't be having treatments. She will let the cancer take it's course.

My mom has never been the same since my stepdad passed away 6 years ago. She is tired of dealing with the troubles, and cares of life. She is wanting to pass away. She has made her funeral plans, and is ready to depart from this world. Keep in mind she hasn't taken any tests yet to confirm it's cancer, no dr. has confirmed it's cancer.

My brother is crying, but will do what my mom wishes. My two sisters are saddened, but also agrees "it's what mom wants." I don't know what to do, feel or say. I'm waiting for the tests results, and what the dr. has to say.

I want to scream, "fight damn it, where's your fight? You never gave up on me, never stopped believing that I would make it through, why can't you do the same for yourself? Do something, engage! Why are you surrendering, claiming defeat, throwing in the towel!!!"

I haven't talked with my mom. I have heard all this from my siblings. I feel as if they are waiting on me to say those magic words to make her see the light. Well, what if I can't, what if there are no magic words this time around. I feel like I'm bracing for impact, waiting for the crash. I have so many emotions, some I can't identify. I feel a heavy grief. I hate to say this, but I feel disappointed in my mom. Then I feel guilty for feeling that way.

Here's where I need wisdom.
Do I take a passive approach, and give into her wishes. Sympathize, and hold her hand.
or
Take an aggressive route. You're going through this if I have to drag you through it.

I can do both. What others think of me doesn't matter, if it will save my moms life. Problem is it's her WILL to pass away. A persons will makes a BIG difference in the battle. Is it right to go against the persons will?

I have to decide what path I will choose by the weekend. Whichever it will be once I choose it I have to stay the course, even if it means going against my 3 siblings. I can do this only if I know in my heart it's the right path to follow.

Thank you for the the help.
Love Jennifer

butterflylvr

Wow Jennifer, I am so sorry.
Wow Jennifer, I am so sorry. Other then this last bout of not feeling well has your mom been sick? You didn't state her age but I am assuming that maybe she has grandchildren too? I think maybe a family meeting might be the best source for guidance. You kids all need to get together with your mom and make sure she knows your true feelings. Does this have to be done before you get any test results back will be up to you guys as a family. But you need a day to air it out, hug, cry, get angry and then make a decision.

If mom is giving up, I am sure loneliness is major factor. Jen with you personally sharing a similar cancer path as your Mom, should understand the most of what's deep in her heart. All you have to do is listen. Maybe all mom needs is to feel like she's important and has value in her children's lives. Some days we get caught up in our own battles that we don't see how depressed our parents have become.

My heart aches for you and your siblings as you conquer this difficult decision.

Let us know how you are doing...
Lorrie

LoveBabyJesus

Sweet Jennifer
This is the most difficult decision a person can make, I think. It affects everyone!

When I was going through my treatments my mom said to me: "I can't do what you're doing. No way! You better let me die at Calvary hospital". It made me really upset when she said that. A lot of emotions went through my mind, is she lonely? does she want to go already? I mean, she's even scared of doing tests! She refuses to get MRI's done (scheduled for surgery on Dec. which she postponed two times already - ovary removal). I think there may be hidden reasons why older people go that route.

I agree you should try talking to her, but listen first. See what she has to say. I also think you should put yourself in her shows. When talking to her, think of what you'd like to hear from your daughter if you were going through the same experience. Perhaps she needs a reminder of how much she's loved and cared for. She's probably waiting to hear it from each and everyone of you. I think you should just say it. Everyone should. "Mom, we understand your feelings and respect them. But we also want you to know we love you very much. And it would be a a blessing for us if you can overcome this again. For us, your kids". If this is how you feel, and the rest of your family feels, then say it. It's important to let it all out now, before a decision is made. I pray this is NOT cancer. But even if it isn't, you should still say those words that mom is hungry to hear - my senses tell me.

I hope and pray this is NOT cancer. Please keep us posted, and I wish you and mom all the best.

disneyfan2008

wow tough call to even go
wow tough call to even go there. MY thoughts for me and my mom (she died almost 5 yrs ago) is let her go. MY mom was without my dad for 30 yrs prior to her death and never the same person as prior. We did the basic things to try to save her but I was in charge of her medical final decisions. I knew enough was enough...said NO more tests etc.

BUT YOUr mom is not even sure it's cancer! Such as hard, heart breaking situation. I will be thinking of you and your family..

Denise

mollieb

I think she is depressed
If your mom were perfectly healthy and talking about not wanting to go on with life, you would probably say, "wow, she is really depressed since my stepdad died," and you would try to talk her into some counseling. I think it's the same thing now. Having cancer no doubt added to her burden, but I don't think it's the cause of her negative outlook. Maybe you and your siblings could talk to her together, and have some options ready to suggest. Then she can decide what to do about treatment without seeing cancer as a way out of her sadness.

2xround

I hope that your mother is
I hope that your mother is mistaken and isn't having a recurrence. If G-d forbid the cancer has come back, though, I don't know if you should argue with your mother

My dad had rectal cancer. He went through surgery and chemo and then it came back. Dad didn't want further treatment in the worst way (the option he was offered was a colostomy with all its unpleasant permanent ramifications.) He kept saying, quality of life is also important.

Well, we all bullied him into having further treatment. He went through nine months of hell and died in agony. He probably died earlier than he would have otherwise and he had zero quality of life. In eight days it'll be four years since he died and I still feel horribly guilty for having convinced him to go for further treatment.

If your mother doesn't want treatment - maybe it's her right to decide that for herself. I do agree with the poster above me who says to find out if she's depressed as that could be influencing her decision making process.

mariam_11_09

Jennifer, sorry that you

Jennifer, sorry that you are having to face this with your dear mother. The decision is ultimately yours to make however I do have this to say ....

if your mother no longer has the will to live it doesn't matter what you do, you can drag her through life kicking and screaming, forcing them to have treatments she doesn't really want to endure and she will still want to die. In the end she will still die. It will make life miserable for your mother, your siblings and yourself. Really think about this.

If you do want your mom around much longer, give her a reason to be here. Not a verbal reason, but give her the opportunity to experience the beauty and joy in life so much so that she will really want to continue to be here.

No matter what respect her decision even if it isn't the one you would make. Because you want it doesn't mean that every one else wants it. Really get your heart in the right place, that is, in your mother's shoes, really in your mother's shoes, get right into her pain and loss (of husband) and now cervical cancer .... and feel her pain and lack of desire to continue .....and feel compassion for her and her desire to end her suffering and then perhaps allow your plan of action to evolve from this ....

good luck and best wishes... it is not an easy decision to make.

RozHopkins

Mum
Thinking first see what the diagnosis is. If bad news, next talk to your mum one on one instead of getting second hand talk from siblings. Then think about what she says. Check she isn't suffering from depression if you can, obviously that affects us in a negative way. I have known people who asked for no further various treatments and another recently who made sure no one new he was ill until it was too late because he wanted to join his dearly loved wife. I would respect a persons wishes if they are of sound mind. Quality of life can be an important factor too. Good luck to you

MAJW

RozHopkins said:

Mum
Thinking first see what the diagnosis is. If bad news, next talk to your mum one on one instead of getting second hand talk from siblings. Then think about what she says. Check she isn't suffering from depression if you can, obviously that affects us in a negative way. I have known people who asked for no further various treatments and another recently who made sure no one new he was ill until it was too late because he wanted to join his dearly loved wife. I would respect a persons wishes if they are of sound mind. Quality of life can be an important factor too. Good luck to you

Tough call...
And I am so sorry you are In this position....How old is your mother?

I'll relate two stories that I have witnessed personally....one a male friend of ours..he had lung cancer (non smoker) was diagnosed at age 44...had a 4 year old....he went to hell and back with treatment, truly....he was in remission for 18 months, and it took him 12 months to start to feel better..then the cancer returned in his spine....he said "no more".....he passed on his own terms with a fairly good quality of life until 1 week before he died....They even went on a Disney cruise....he walked into hospice on his own two feet on a Friday and passed away peacefully Monday morning...

Second story...my best friend was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer at age 51...she knew from day one that treatment was only palliative...bought her time..she was married, two kids, 24, 20...she had every treatment known to man....2 surgeries, radiation, chemo, oral and IV...went into a clinical trial....nothing could be done, but her husband and kids pushed and pushed and pushed her to continue treatment...this went on for 2 1/2 years..it was torture to watch...I took her to chemo every other week....her quality of life the last year was awful! When I took her to her last chemo she told me, " I can't do this any more, I just want this to be over"....she was wheelchair bound, or in bed all the time...even her oncologist told the family enough, but they persisted in begging her to "fight"....She and I had a long talk during that last chemo....I may have over stepped my boundaries, but she was my best friend for 26 years... I told her it was HER decision to make and her's alone....she told the chemo nurses when we left..." I won't be back"...they nodded on agreement.... She passed away 4 weeks later, 6 months ago at age 53.....

You're in a tough position....But if this tumor turns out to be cancer, I think it's your Mother's choice and right to decide her fate...I know the pain of losing a mother...mine died at age 62...I was 25.....I am battling a recurrence of bc...undergoing chemo again, just finished another round of radiation and will be facing some sort of treatment from here on.... I have already decided I will know when enough is enough.....I just turned 60....have a hubby of 42 years, two grown kids and 4 grands whom I love with all my heart...but it will be my decision at some point...

I wish you peace...

natly15

Jennifer I pray it is not
Jennifer I pray it is not cancer, but whether it is or is not I think it is important to let mom know how important and loved she is and then let her know that since she is so loved, you will respect her choices whatever they are because they are her choices and her life. You know there comes a time in life when some people are tired of the stresses and would prefer to let nature take it's course. In the end it is between that person and their God and no one not even the doctors can tell one how much time they have. I'd say love mom and respect her choices. If she is depressed and that is her reason for giving up the fight then perhaps she can get help, if she is just plain tired again that is between her and her maker. Of course our children want us to fight and stick around but as one ages sometimes that fight from within starts to dwindle. Just my take. Praying for you and mom. Hugs

KathiM

Having just had this same thing happen with my mom....
My advice is to talk with her honestly about your feelings. Tell her that if she truly does not want to go on, should it be her choice, then tell her (IMHO) that it is her decision, and even though you would miss her greatly, she is the one that would have to do the treatments, go thru the side effects, etc and if she doesn't want to do it, you will stand by and love her just the same.

I will be quite honest...I hope that, after 2 nasty fights with cancer, I will not have to face the choice of treatment or not again. I'm not sure what I would decide....I lost 45 pounds, and many of the places that it could reoccur have already had lifetime max of rads...

The Netherlands has a support system for euthenesia (don't know how to spell it...) sometimes it seems to be the best choice...but it can't be requested by anyone but the person themselves, and that is after thorough questioning and reviewing by a doctor...

BIG hugs to you, dearheart....it is always harder to stand by and watch....

Hugs, Kathi

mamolady

Jennifer,
I think the first
Jennifer,
I think the first thing to do would be to make sure your mom gets help if she is depressed. 6 years is a long time, but she may still be struggling with the loss. Weather or not the cancer is back this would help her in the long run.

After that is addressed, if the cancer is back, speak with your heart. That can often comes with a little divine intervention and that helps you with the right words. You know more than anybody how you should speak to your mom.

If it is cancer and your mom still decides to forgo treatment, that is not giving up. It is making the choice of how she wants to live her life. My sister decided to not have any more treatments after the cancer came back in the liver. She couldn't take the chemo any more. She still survived longer than the doctors anticipated. She wasn't depressed or anxious, she was just done. When she died, she was ready to go home.

Have faith, you will choose the right path.

Cindy

Pam5

mamolady said:

Jennifer,
I think the first
Jennifer,
I think the first thing to do would be to make sure your mom gets help if she is depressed. 6 years is a long time, but she may still be struggling with the loss. Weather or not the cancer is back this would help her in the long run.

After that is addressed, if the cancer is back, speak with your heart. That can often comes with a little divine intervention and that helps you with the right words. You know more than anybody how you should speak to your mom.

If it is cancer and your mom still decides to forgo treatment, that is not giving up. It is making the choice of how she wants to live her life. My sister decided to not have any more treatments after the cancer came back in the liver. She couldn't take the chemo any more. She still survived longer than the doctors anticipated. She wasn't depressed or anxious, she was just done. When she died, she was ready to go home.

Have faith, you will choose the right path.

Cindy

Hi Jennifer,
When I was
Hi Jennifer,

When I was diagnosed this third time with a significantly larger breast tumor than I ever had before, I wondered how my children would react. They have been attentive, loving, supportive and totally "there" for me. I believe at this point that there are enough reasons to continue treatment and that I still have a chance of getting well. However, when my lungs were so bad that I couldn't breathe, I wasn't sure it was all worth it. I would have to be honest with my children and my grandchildren. I am 68 and and love my life but I am definitely into quality rather than quantity of life. I asked God for 20 more years if they could be healthy years. We'll see. I will say that knowing how much my kids love me and respect me and my wishes means more to me than I can possibly find words to express. Talk to her, listen to her, love her and respect her while at the same time paying attention to whether or not she may be (and maybe has been for 6 years) in a clinical depression. If she got help for that, it could change her whole outlook on her life. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

Hugs,
Pam

laughs_a_lot

Fighter but.......
I am known as quite the fighter but....... If my dear hubby were gone that could be a whole different ballgame. My children and grandchildren have a life of thier own. I have been through a good many trials in life prior to bc. Quite frankly if I am ready to go meet my Lord and Savior anytime. However, my Lord and Savior knows that at this time my husband still needs me and I suspect that is why the Lord has not called me home yet. If he were out of the picture it sure would put a different light on what my life meant. Each person's life has to mean something to them. When mom got up there and felt tired of the fight I did not ask her to stick around because her life had meaning for me. It had to have meaning for her.

RozHopkins

KathiM said:

Having just had this same thing happen with my mom....
My advice is to talk with her honestly about your feelings. Tell her that if she truly does not want to go on, should it be her choice, then tell her (IMHO) that it is her decision, and even though you would miss her greatly, she is the one that would have to do the treatments, go thru the side effects, etc and if she doesn't want to do it, you will stand by and love her just the same.

I will be quite honest...I hope that, after 2 nasty fights with cancer, I will not have to face the choice of treatment or not again. I'm not sure what I would decide....I lost 45 pounds, and many of the places that it could reoccur have already had lifetime max of rads...

The Netherlands has a support system for euthenesia (don't know how to spell it...) sometimes it seems to be the best choice...but it can't be requested by anyone but the person themselves, and that is after thorough questioning and reviewing by a doctor...

BIG hugs to you, dearheart....it is always harder to stand by and watch....

Hugs, Kathi

Euthenesia (same as you, spelling)
Interesting point about The Netherlands. A touchy subject. I am one of the few in favor of this. An elderly couple a year or so ago in England decided enough, they adored each other and went over to the Netherlands to pass away in each others arms. Again, a complicated subject most do not want to discuss. Many arguments about this and always will be.

Sunrae

laughs_a_lot said:

Fighter but.......
I am known as quite the fighter but....... If my dear hubby were gone that could be a whole different ballgame. My children and grandchildren have a life of thier own. I have been through a good many trials in life prior to bc. Quite frankly if I am ready to go meet my Lord and Savior anytime. However, my Lord and Savior knows that at this time my husband still needs me and I suspect that is why the Lord has not called me home yet. If he were out of the picture it sure would put a different light on what my life meant. Each person's life has to mean something to them. When mom got up there and felt tired of the fight I did not ask her to stick around because her life had meaning for me. It had to have meaning for her.

I lost my mother to bc
I lost my mother to bc several years ago. I was her caregiver for some of the time, she went thru a lot of stuff the first time dxed. It came back 5 years later and she did fight hard again but she said if it comes back again she didn't want anymore treatment. Two years later it was back with a vengeance. She made the decision "no more". Some treatment may have bought her more time but it was her decision that she wanted to spend her time well with her family and enjoying as much as she could. I moved her into my home along with my dad and their poodle. For 2 months she was well enough to enjoy famiy members coming to see her, we had a great Thanksgiving and she passed away in December very peacefully. We didn't want to let her go but we didn't want to see her suffer any more. We all made peace with her decision. Let your mom make her decision based on how the tests come out and just be there as a family to support her whichever way it goes. Praying for no cancer so your mom can still be there with all of you.

camul

Jennifer
This is a hard call. I am 53 and going through treatment for the second time. This time it has spread. I have been on chemo for 9 months, three weeks out of every month. The last month the chemo has been so hard on me that there have been times, when a sister and even one of my sons, both very supportive have asked if it if worth it for what has come down to about 10 good days a month (which is not pain free, but I am still able to really enjoy these days). I told them yes, but even my oncologist had decided to stop chemo for at least a month, as I am stable, which means that the cancer has not spread with the chemo I am currently on but has not gotten better. But even he felt that my body needed a break. My first response was if I don't do the chemo then it will spread again, but he reassured me and both my sons who were with me, that he is repeating all of the scans in one month and I will always be just one week away from starting chemo.

Then these last 2 chemo's have had the worst side effects, both nausea, weakness, the nuelesta shots, and losing everything from both ends. I lost another 6 pounds in 2 weeks. Now I will go 4 weeks with no chemo, I will still be on all the other meds, and see him, next week, then have the tests 3 weeks later, then an appointment on the 4th week to determine if I am still stable or if I will be continuing with this chemo.

I am really weighing out the quality vs. quantity, and ultimately am dreading going through such aggressive chemo again for the duration.

Your mom is making this decision now, but I also said that if it ever returned I would not have chemo again after my first diagnosis in 2002 and my boys knew that. But when I was re-diagnosed one year ago and my boys both said that they would do whatever to help me through the treatments, there was no way I could say no. Just seeing the love and concern on their faces made me change my mind in a heartbeat. But ultimately they both agreed that it was my decision and they would support me all the way. They have been here with me the whole way and we have shared so much laughter. We all crack up when my balance is off and I walk into things, they make fun of my driving, how I drive the motorized cart at Costco and the grocery store. But this time is precious and I have never regretted doing the treatments for a minute.

However, I am still undecided on continuing after this break, but will probably continue with the chemo, but having the unselfish support of my children with either decision is what is making the choice to continue possible, and knowing as they put it, if I do it and it is just too hard and not making a difference, they will also support my decision to stop the treatments and live the best quality for the time I have left.

I agree with most everyone that you have to listen to your mom, and see if there is anything that you can do to help her either way, and give her the option that if she tries and it really is too much for her that you will all support that decision also. But ultimately, screaming, yelling, or forcing her to do what you all want does not seem to be the best option for anyone involved. I would go with her to her appointment, and just ask her not to make any decisions until you have an outcome, and then help give her options without forcing her. Hopefully, just knowing how much all of you love her, and if she has an idea of the time that you all are willing to spend with her while she is going through this will give her the will to live and fight.

If not just support whatever decision she makes, and love her, it is her decision.

Tough call for all of you, hope it is not cancer and you do not have to even go this far. Prayers are with all of you.

~Carol

ms.sunshine

camul said:

Jennifer
This is a hard call. I am 53 and going through treatment for the second time. This time it has spread. I have been on chemo for 9 months, three weeks out of every month. The last month the chemo has been so hard on me that there have been times, when a sister and even one of my sons, both very supportive have asked if it if worth it for what has come down to about 10 good days a month (which is not pain free, but I am still able to really enjoy these days). I told them yes, but even my oncologist had decided to stop chemo for at least a month, as I am stable, which means that the cancer has not spread with the chemo I am currently on but has not gotten better. But even he felt that my body needed a break. My first response was if I don't do the chemo then it will spread again, but he reassured me and both my sons who were with me, that he is repeating all of the scans in one month and I will always be just one week away from starting chemo.

Then these last 2 chemo's have had the worst side effects, both nausea, weakness, the nuelesta shots, and losing everything from both ends. I lost another 6 pounds in 2 weeks. Now I will go 4 weeks with no chemo, I will still be on all the other meds, and see him, next week, then have the tests 3 weeks later, then an appointment on the 4th week to determine if I am still stable or if I will be continuing with this chemo.

I am really weighing out the quality vs. quantity, and ultimately am dreading going through such aggressive chemo again for the duration.

Your mom is making this decision now, but I also said that if it ever returned I would not have chemo again after my first diagnosis in 2002 and my boys knew that. But when I was re-diagnosed one year ago and my boys both said that they would do whatever to help me through the treatments, there was no way I could say no. Just seeing the love and concern on their faces made me change my mind in a heartbeat. But ultimately they both agreed that it was my decision and they would support me all the way. They have been here with me the whole way and we have shared so much laughter. We all crack up when my balance is off and I walk into things, they make fun of my driving, how I drive the motorized cart at Costco and the grocery store. But this time is precious and I have never regretted doing the treatments for a minute.

However, I am still undecided on continuing after this break, but will probably continue with the chemo, but having the unselfish support of my children with either decision is what is making the choice to continue possible, and knowing as they put it, if I do it and it is just too hard and not making a difference, they will also support my decision to stop the treatments and live the best quality for the time I have left.

I agree with most everyone that you have to listen to your mom, and see if there is anything that you can do to help her either way, and give her the option that if she tries and it really is too much for her that you will all support that decision also. But ultimately, screaming, yelling, or forcing her to do what you all want does not seem to be the best option for anyone involved. I would go with her to her appointment, and just ask her not to make any decisions until you have an outcome, and then help give her options without forcing her. Hopefully, just knowing how much all of you love her, and if she has an idea of the time that you all are willing to spend with her while she is going through this will give her the will to live and fight.

If not just support whatever decision she makes, and love her, it is her decision.

Tough call for all of you, hope it is not cancer and you do not have to even go this far. Prayers are with all of you.

~Carol

Thanks very much
Sorry it took so long for me to get back on here.

I asked for wisdom, and I certainly got it from all of you.
When I posted this it was from my emotions. Since I calmed down and took a hard look at it from my moms perspective I can understand. Yes I had decided to honor my mothers wishes. What she decides will be what I accept, and will support her through it all.

I prayed and ask God to do what was best for my mom. It was between mom and Him. I would accept the decision, and trust Him. I realized it's not my battle to fight, and I do not get to choose how mom decides to fight her battle. I am to honor her, love her, and support her.

Good news. Monday I found out NO CANCER!! Her bladder fell down and forward and was causing a bulge, so she has to have her bladder tacked up. Also she has pain from the sciatic nerve that is inflamed. I went through that and it is very painful.

I'm not sure how long my mom has, but when the time comes I will have this lesson tucked away in my memory.

All you ladies are a blessing. I appreciate all the wisdom
Jennifer

KathyLQ

Does your Mom live alone?
I read your post twice, looking for an indication of where your Mom lives. I couldn't tell.

If she's living alone, I can understand why she is ready to give up.

Can any of the family take her into their home? A back bedroom, or guest cottage, or something to give her regular contact with her family?

ms.sunshine

KathyLQ said:

Does your Mom live alone?
I read your post twice, looking for an indication of where your Mom lives. I couldn't tell.

If she's living alone, I can understand why she is ready to give up.

Can any of the family take her into their home? A back bedroom, or guest cottage, or something to give her regular contact with her family?

No my brother, his wife, and 10yo son live with her
She moved back to where she grew up many years ago, which is 10 hours away.

Here's where it gets complicated. She is 66 and takes care of my brother who is 40, his wife, and child. Bro is not worth a darn. He works part-time, he contributes no money to the household. She takes care of everything. Pays all bills, raises his child. He has taken all her money. A year ago as my mom went through cancer treatments he went behind her back, got 2 credit cards in her name. He and his wife went on a shopping spree spending thousands. She returned back to work sooner than what she should have to work full time to pay on the cards. Of course they do not help her pay on the cards.

My mom defends them no matter what. She gets mad if anyone says any bad thing about him. She will not leave. She has 3 daughters, 2 sisters, and a brother she could go live with, but she won't. She is stressed out, but will not change her living arrangements. As far as she's concerned the only way out is death for her.