do tumors grow faster than microcopic cells

nancygt

After disappointing shrinkage from six months of Cisplatin/Adriamycin, I see my onc next week to review PET scans. One general question I have is whether the microcopic cells that have not been destroyed have any different triggers or growth from known tumors. With 2 recurrences in 18 months, I was advised not to expect NED from this treatment. I guess the NED after first two treatments was misleading as it clearly had spread to lymph system - biopsy at hyst/ooph of 13 pelvic nodes did not show cells but 6 months after end of first treatment, recurrence in paraortic nodes. Treatment 2 tomotherapy radiation got those few tumors and CT scan year ago was clean. But 5 months later, tumors near base of lung - had to wait 2 months to get drugs so the tumors increased from 8 to 20 before last chemo. They said it was partially effective as existing tumors shrank 30%, no new ones noted but they suggested the PET scan due to suspicious tissue density areas. This is my first time to have to accept not being free of tumors and I am curious if those tumors are more likely to start growing or to be be any more (or less) aggressive than the microscopic cells that clearly have been there all along. I am interested in any feedback from this board, even if it may be a stupid question (I don't worry about that in this forum).

EnglishGal

No question is stupid on this forum
Hello nancygt - there is no such thing as a stupid question. We are all dealing with a disease here that brings up all sorts of complex questions, it is that sort of disease.

Hopefully some of the other ladies here could answer your question. My last scan results (last November 2010) showed me to be in remission. I next see my oncologist again at the end of this month.

I wish I could help out here - perhaps your doctor could shed some light?

Tethys41

complicated question
Nancy,
I don't know whether there is a short or definitive answer to your question. I do not tend to believe that lymph node involvement means that NED is impossible. I had at least two lymph nodes in my mesentary tissue that could not be removed during debulking that were affected. Yet, I achieved NED following first line chemo. As for the microscopic cells, I have always heard that once the tumor(s) are removed, that adds fuel to the fire with regard to outlying cells. I firmly believe, from personal experience and research, however, that all of this can be controlled if you follow a lifestyle that supports the immune system and reduces the parameters that aggravate cancer growth. It makes complete sense to me that your body needs a lot of support following chemo, so that it is able to put up a fight against the cancer cells and cancer stem cells that remain following treatment. Chemo is powerful medicine and does a real number on the body and the immune system. How can it possibly muster the strength to fight what it needs to without some outside help and support? I do know, however, that everyone is different and what works for me may not work for you.

mom2greatkids

Tethys41 said:

complicated question
Nancy,
I don't know whether there is a short or definitive answer to your question. I do not tend to believe that lymph node involvement means that NED is impossible. I had at least two lymph nodes in my mesentary tissue that could not be removed during debulking that were affected. Yet, I achieved NED following first line chemo. As for the microscopic cells, I have always heard that once the tumor(s) are removed, that adds fuel to the fire with regard to outlying cells. I firmly believe, from personal experience and research, however, that all of this can be controlled if you follow a lifestyle that supports the immune system and reduces the parameters that aggravate cancer growth. It makes complete sense to me that your body needs a lot of support following chemo, so that it is able to put up a fight against the cancer cells and cancer stem cells that remain following treatment. Chemo is powerful medicine and does a real number on the body and the immune system. How can it possibly muster the strength to fight what it needs to without some outside help and support? I do know, however, that everyone is different and what works for me may not work for you.

Interesting response. What
Interesting response. What do you do to support a healthy lifestyle? I have read so much conflicting info. as to what we should/should not eat. Do you mind sharing with me what you have and are continuing to do?

I had one lymph node come back positive after surgery. I had a pet scan 5 weeks after surgery. It showed 2 lymph nodes as possible cancer in the lower back abdomen. My CA-125 post surgery was 106. My dr. was very pleased and said that he was very optimistic. He also told me that the glass is always half full I am interested in hearing what your dietary and other lifestyle habits are. Thanks so much!

Carla

Tethys41

mom2greatkids said:

Interesting response. What
Interesting response. What do you do to support a healthy lifestyle? I have read so much conflicting info. as to what we should/should not eat. Do you mind sharing with me what you have and are continuing to do?

I had one lymph node come back positive after surgery. I had a pet scan 5 weeks after surgery. It showed 2 lymph nodes as possible cancer in the lower back abdomen. My CA-125 post surgery was 106. My dr. was very pleased and said that he was very optimistic. He also told me that the glass is always half full I am interested in hearing what your dietary and other lifestyle habits are. Thanks so much!

Carla

Another complicated answer
Carla,
The book "Anti-cancer" by David Servan Schriever is a great resource.

You can read a lot about what I do and why I do it in a response to a post titled "Boosting the Immune System" on this discussion board from January of this year. Since that post I have learned a number of other things.

There is a product called Iscador, which is used to boost the immune system, specific to the type of cancer the patient has. It can be used during chemo, although it is recommended that you start using it prior to initiating chemo. I am NED, but use it as a preventative.

There is a product called Haelan 951 that is a fermented soy beverage that is supposed to kill cancer cells, including cancer stem cells. It is very expensive, and tastes horrible, but I take 1 ounce per day to kill any remaining cancer cells that may linger in my body.

There are also products on the market composed of bindweed, which is an anti-angiogenic - like Avastin. I do not know whether it is advisable to take these products during chemo.

My best advice to you would be to find a naturopath or integrative practitioner, who specializes in the care of cancer patients, to help you wade through and provide you with the products available to you to help your body. I completed chemo in March of last year. Even with all of the extra support I've had since treatment, it was a long road to wellness. When I think of how I felt last summer as compared to this summer, it is night and day. I can't imagine my body could have fought off the cancer cells that reamined in my body after chemo without a lot of help.

carolenk

Tethys41 said:

Another complicated answer
Carla,
The book "Anti-cancer" by David Servan Schriever is a great resource.

You can read a lot about what I do and why I do it in a response to a post titled "Boosting the Immune System" on this discussion board from January of this year. Since that post I have learned a number of other things.

There is a product called Iscador, which is used to boost the immune system, specific to the type of cancer the patient has. It can be used during chemo, although it is recommended that you start using it prior to initiating chemo. I am NED, but use it as a preventative.

There is a product called Haelan 951 that is a fermented soy beverage that is supposed to kill cancer cells, including cancer stem cells. It is very expensive, and tastes horrible, but I take 1 ounce per day to kill any remaining cancer cells that may linger in my body.

There are also products on the market composed of bindweed, which is an anti-angiogenic - like Avastin. I do not know whether it is advisable to take these products during chemo.

My best advice to you would be to find a naturopath or integrative practitioner, who specializes in the care of cancer patients, to help you wade through and provide you with the products available to you to help your body. I completed chemo in March of last year. Even with all of the extra support I've had since treatment, it was a long road to wellness. When I think of how I felt last summer as compared to this summer, it is night and day. I can't imagine my body could have fought off the cancer cells that reamined in my body after chemo without a lot of help.

Anti-inflammatory diet is a good idea
I think eating an anti-inflammatory diet and using herbs can slow the grow of microscopic cancer cells and tumors to some degree...at least it doesn't throw fuel on the fire.

From everything I have figured out so far, I've decided that anyone who survives cancer does it because, at some point, their immune system kicks back in and starts making tumor suppressor white blood cells again. Without a functioning immune system, all chemo, diet, herbs, etc. can do is give you a little more time on the planet. This is why there is interest in an ovarian cancer vaccine.

Now that I've said this, I might change my mind on this if I can be convinced otherwise.

Carolen