Not Having Treatment (80 years old)
Given her age and other health issues and the fact that the treatment options are both very difficult for someone her age, wondering about opinions on not having either one done and letting things ride.
Haven't discussed it in detail with the doctor yet so all he's said so far is it's usually a slow growing cancer and additional/worsening symptoms might also be slow. But, eventually there would be spreading, pain, etc.
We are meeting with the Radiation Oncologist this week and after all the reading I've done, I have tons of questions about how appropriate this is for my Mom.
The doctor and I have both said from the beginning that she has three choices (surgery, chemo/rad or doing nothing). I want to share with her the difficulties of radiation so that she can make an informed decision (not an emotional one) before undergoing the radiation because she thinks that's what she has to do.
None of the choices are "good". So hard to say "do nothing" when you know that will ultimately mean death. At the same time, should she go through agony for a few months (or longer as many on here have said)? Something else could take her life during this time as well.
Any thoughts? Experiences with others who have refused treatment?
Comments
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Treatment at 80
I am soooo sorry that you and your m0m are facing this. It is such a personal decision. I can't say if I would go through treatment again at 80 or not. For me, it would be dependent on my current health (physical and mental strength) and family situation I suppose. I am assuming that she doesn't feel strongly about any of choices?
I know nothing about the course this specific cancer takes untreated but I'm sure others here will share what they know.
Many, many prayers to you and your mom in the days ahead as you further explore your options and prayers of peace and comfort to you both once the decision has been made.
With love and hope,
Angela0 -
Current health
Nan-Peg11,
I really think this decision depends very much on your mom's physical and mental health at this point in her life. My mom is the same age and very active, clear minded and has a new grandbaby less that a year old that she sees almost every day. She has always had a fighter's nature. I would be very sad and surprised if she was diagnosed and chose no treatment.
However, I also know that there are very many women that age that have struggled with multiple health issues and are less strong, physically and mentally. The side effects might be very hard for them.
Family support is another factor. It sounds like you are very devoted to your mom and willing to help her as much as she will need. She will need physical and emotional support.
It is such a difficult decision. I really feel for you and your mom. I felt compelled to respond. I am a christian and have prayed so much for myself and sought the prayers of others. The last advise I can give you is to pray, pray, pray - for guidance, comfort and grace to move forward. I think that is the only thing that will give you peace with whatever decision you make and outcome.
May God bless you both!
Mary0 -
No Treatment?z810840b said:treatment
If your mother doesn't have treatment..she will die. 80 isn't old any more..Most important..anal cancer has such a good prognosis.Why wouldn't you do this? I am mystified..alyse
My Mom hasn't started treatment yet. I'm guessing 3 more weeks. After she sees the Radiation Oncologist, he will meet with the Gastro Oncologist to come up with a treatment plan. Then we go back in to meet with him, discuss the plan, etc.
The reasons for considering the "do nothing" option are that although 80 isn't so old anymore, age is relative. She's not an optimist so her 80 is "older". Also, she's recently been hit with 2 other things - she had a pacemaker put in a few weeks ago and has a condition called ocular myasthenia. It's a muscle weakness by her eyes so she has double vision. She's not coping well with all of this on her plate. And, last, even if the treatment is successful at curing this, she may be left with lingering effects because her body will not bounce back like someone younger would.
The doctor said it and it's so true - there are NO good options.
So, like I've researched the surgery/colostomy route and the treatment route, now I'm trying to find some information on what she can expect if she chooses the do nothing route.0 -
I understandNan-Peg11 said:No Treatment?
My Mom hasn't started treatment yet. I'm guessing 3 more weeks. After she sees the Radiation Oncologist, he will meet with the Gastro Oncologist to come up with a treatment plan. Then we go back in to meet with him, discuss the plan, etc.
The reasons for considering the "do nothing" option are that although 80 isn't so old anymore, age is relative. She's not an optimist so her 80 is "older". Also, she's recently been hit with 2 other things - she had a pacemaker put in a few weeks ago and has a condition called ocular myasthenia. It's a muscle weakness by her eyes so she has double vision. She's not coping well with all of this on her plate. And, last, even if the treatment is successful at curing this, she may be left with lingering effects because her body will not bounce back like someone younger would.
The doctor said it and it's so true - there are NO good options.
So, like I've researched the surgery/colostomy route and the treatment route, now I'm trying to find some information on what she can expect if she chooses the do nothing route.
I totally understand. And everyone has different feelings toward death with the American culture leading the pack in avoiding it all costs. There comes a time when quality of life trumps quantity. Again, this decision is a very difficult and personal one and I would never question your choice, only support you once it's made.
Blessings,
Angela0 -
Well statedAngela_K said:I understand
I totally understand. And everyone has different feelings toward death with the American culture leading the pack in avoiding it all costs. There comes a time when quality of life trumps quantity. Again, this decision is a very difficult and personal one and I would never question your choice, only support you once it's made.
Blessings,
Angela
Well stated, Angela. I couldn't agree with you more.0 -
I understand
While my Mom is not suffering from anal cancer, (that was my lucky draw!) she is 88 and in very poor health. She has COPD, Diabetes, High Blood pressure, glaucoma, nueropathy, etc..., and is in Stage 4 renal failure. She chose to not go on dialysis about 2 years ago and my siblings and I all said we would support her decision whatever it was. (She has however outlived her kidney doctor's estimate of how long she had by over 8 months at this time.) Her quality of life is not great, so while it is going to be absolutely horrible when she dies, it will be her time. I think as people get older they come to accept death as the natural course of things. Your mother has probably had friends, realatives, and loved ones pass away already, and she may not fear it like younger folks may.
I think the best you can do is arm yourselves with information. It might also be good to ask what her doctor would recommend concerning treatment if this was his/her mother and in her current health condition. I do think attitude will be crucial in the recovery period; treatment is intense and can be brutal, but it is relatively short and if she can stand it for a few months, she may have many more months to live. If she chooses to not pursue treatment I suggest you reach out to your local cancer support group for counseling for both you and your mother. Hospice is wonderful as well. We are having home Hospice come in to my parents house a couple times per week now and that is a very good thing. I will keep both of you in my prayers.0 -
tx or not
so sorry that you have to make this decision. I hope that i do not bring negativity but i want to be honest about my experience. I was 56 when diagnosed. I had no one to talk to because this site had just come on for anal c. during my tx in 2009 or i just was too weak to search it. i was strong and thin and not scared of dying at all due to belief in heaven. But chose to try this not knowing about the side effects. it almost killed me literally. had to go to ICU at MDA after tx and then reg hospital for 10 days. my bottom hurt and all my private parts were swollen about 5 times their size. my burns were so bad that anal skin was almost black and peeling off. I hurt severely for 12 months then less after that. now at 25 months i am better but still have pain and bleeding .Now, please know that others have NOT had this severe of a reaction. It has taken me a long time to decide to write this to you because who knows what it would do to your mom. she might do better. hugs to you sephie0 -
Mom's reached her decisionsephie said:tx or not
so sorry that you have to make this decision. I hope that i do not bring negativity but i want to be honest about my experience. I was 56 when diagnosed. I had no one to talk to because this site had just come on for anal c. during my tx in 2009 or i just was too weak to search it. i was strong and thin and not scared of dying at all due to belief in heaven. But chose to try this not knowing about the side effects. it almost killed me literally. had to go to ICU at MDA after tx and then reg hospital for 10 days. my bottom hurt and all my private parts were swollen about 5 times their size. my burns were so bad that anal skin was almost black and peeling off. I hurt severely for 12 months then less after that. now at 25 months i am better but still have pain and bleeding .Now, please know that others have NOT had this severe of a reaction. It has taken me a long time to decide to write this to you because who knows what it would do to your mom. she might do better. hugs to you sephie
Sephie - thank you for your honesty. I am so sorry you had such a rough time.
We saw the Radiation Oncologist this week. Although she is now well aware of the potential side effects, she's decided to try it. I have all the misgivings I already had about the physical difficulties and about the idea that, unlike many of you on this site, she doesn't have an optimistic personality which seems crucial to getting through this. Unfortunately, they say the surgery might end her life and doing nothing could lead to long-term pain and eventual bowel obstruction so there are no good choices.
We've asked both Oncologists whether they'd recommend this for their own mothers and they've said yes - but only because the alternatives are.........
I now know why I'm not able to find anything online about someone this age going through this. As rare as anal cancer is, the doc said it's almost unheard of in someone this age. So, answers to questions about her potential benefit if she goes only partially through it, etc., don't exist.
We go back to the Gastro Oncologist this week. He will plan the Chemo part (definitely reduced dosage which means remission is probably the best outcome vs. cure). She should begin tx within 2 weeks.
Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer. Not my nature but I must admit I'm having a tough time imagining a good outcome.
Again, thank you all for your support.0 -
In my thoughtsNan-Peg11 said:Mom's reached her decision
Sephie - thank you for your honesty. I am so sorry you had such a rough time.
We saw the Radiation Oncologist this week. Although she is now well aware of the potential side effects, she's decided to try it. I have all the misgivings I already had about the physical difficulties and about the idea that, unlike many of you on this site, she doesn't have an optimistic personality which seems crucial to getting through this. Unfortunately, they say the surgery might end her life and doing nothing could lead to long-term pain and eventual bowel obstruction so there are no good choices.
We've asked both Oncologists whether they'd recommend this for their own mothers and they've said yes - but only because the alternatives are.........
I now know why I'm not able to find anything online about someone this age going through this. As rare as anal cancer is, the doc said it's almost unheard of in someone this age. So, answers to questions about her potential benefit if she goes only partially through it, etc., don't exist.
We go back to the Gastro Oncologist this week. He will plan the Chemo part (definitely reduced dosage which means remission is probably the best outcome vs. cure). She should begin tx within 2 weeks.
Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer. Not my nature but I must admit I'm having a tough time imagining a good outcome.
Again, thank you all for your support.
Your mother will be in my prayers and thoughts as she goes through treatment. Hope all goes well. Please keep us informed. ~Carol0 -
Moving forwardNan-Peg11 said:Mom's reached her decision
Sephie - thank you for your honesty. I am so sorry you had such a rough time.
We saw the Radiation Oncologist this week. Although she is now well aware of the potential side effects, she's decided to try it. I have all the misgivings I already had about the physical difficulties and about the idea that, unlike many of you on this site, she doesn't have an optimistic personality which seems crucial to getting through this. Unfortunately, they say the surgery might end her life and doing nothing could lead to long-term pain and eventual bowel obstruction so there are no good choices.
We've asked both Oncologists whether they'd recommend this for their own mothers and they've said yes - but only because the alternatives are.........
I now know why I'm not able to find anything online about someone this age going through this. As rare as anal cancer is, the doc said it's almost unheard of in someone this age. So, answers to questions about her potential benefit if she goes only partially through it, etc., don't exist.
We go back to the Gastro Oncologist this week. He will plan the Chemo part (definitely reduced dosage which means remission is probably the best outcome vs. cure). She should begin tx within 2 weeks.
Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer. Not my nature but I must admit I'm having a tough time imagining a good outcome.
Again, thank you all for your support.
Now that the decision has been made, you both can now get your minds around what to expect a little bit more. I was beginning treatment at Scott& White about the same time one woman, age 82, was ending hers. She did beautifully! She was hospitalized for three days mid treatment when her blood counts were low but by the end of treatment she had her energy back and felt good. So, your mom may surprise you.
Please keep us posted and EXPECT THE BEST. The thing about this bunch, we all may have different opinions regarding what to do and what not to do, but I believe we all share empathy, compassion and offer a wealth of loving support.
Bright blessings to you, your mom and your family as you press forward.
Angela0 -
Wishing your mom all the bestNan-Peg11 said:Mom's reached her decision
Sephie - thank you for your honesty. I am so sorry you had such a rough time.
We saw the Radiation Oncologist this week. Although she is now well aware of the potential side effects, she's decided to try it. I have all the misgivings I already had about the physical difficulties and about the idea that, unlike many of you on this site, she doesn't have an optimistic personality which seems crucial to getting through this. Unfortunately, they say the surgery might end her life and doing nothing could lead to long-term pain and eventual bowel obstruction so there are no good choices.
We've asked both Oncologists whether they'd recommend this for their own mothers and they've said yes - but only because the alternatives are.........
I now know why I'm not able to find anything online about someone this age going through this. As rare as anal cancer is, the doc said it's almost unheard of in someone this age. So, answers to questions about her potential benefit if she goes only partially through it, etc., don't exist.
We go back to the Gastro Oncologist this week. He will plan the Chemo part (definitely reduced dosage which means remission is probably the best outcome vs. cure). She should begin tx within 2 weeks.
Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer. Not my nature but I must admit I'm having a tough time imagining a good outcome.
Again, thank you all for your support.
I know what a difficult time this is, as it seems there are no good options. My prayers go out to you and your mom and I hope you'll keep us posted on how things are going for her. Don't forget to take care of yourself during this time too--it's hard being a caregiver. God bless you both.0 -
Nan-PegNan-Peg11 said:Mom's reached her decision
Sephie - thank you for your honesty. I am so sorry you had such a rough time.
We saw the Radiation Oncologist this week. Although she is now well aware of the potential side effects, she's decided to try it. I have all the misgivings I already had about the physical difficulties and about the idea that, unlike many of you on this site, she doesn't have an optimistic personality which seems crucial to getting through this. Unfortunately, they say the surgery might end her life and doing nothing could lead to long-term pain and eventual bowel obstruction so there are no good choices.
We've asked both Oncologists whether they'd recommend this for their own mothers and they've said yes - but only because the alternatives are.........
I now know why I'm not able to find anything online about someone this age going through this. As rare as anal cancer is, the doc said it's almost unheard of in someone this age. So, answers to questions about her potential benefit if she goes only partially through it, etc., don't exist.
We go back to the Gastro Oncologist this week. He will plan the Chemo part (definitely reduced dosage which means remission is probably the best outcome vs. cure). She should begin tx within 2 weeks.
Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer. Not my nature but I must admit I'm having a tough time imagining a good outcome.
Again, thank you all for your support.
I am glad your mom has decided for herself to give this a try. They will more than likely moniter her very closely, because of her age. Remember, she could always stop anytime. The medicines for the side effects work really well. Please keep us posted, this is a short tx time and I hope your mom speeds trough it. I wish you both well. Lori0 -
great!!Nan-Peg11 said:Mom's reached her decision
Sephie - thank you for your honesty. I am so sorry you had such a rough time.
We saw the Radiation Oncologist this week. Although she is now well aware of the potential side effects, she's decided to try it. I have all the misgivings I already had about the physical difficulties and about the idea that, unlike many of you on this site, she doesn't have an optimistic personality which seems crucial to getting through this. Unfortunately, they say the surgery might end her life and doing nothing could lead to long-term pain and eventual bowel obstruction so there are no good choices.
We've asked both Oncologists whether they'd recommend this for their own mothers and they've said yes - but only because the alternatives are.........
I now know why I'm not able to find anything online about someone this age going through this. As rare as anal cancer is, the doc said it's almost unheard of in someone this age. So, answers to questions about her potential benefit if she goes only partially through it, etc., don't exist.
We go back to the Gastro Oncologist this week. He will plan the Chemo part (definitely reduced dosage which means remission is probably the best outcome vs. cure). She should begin tx within 2 weeks.
Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer. Not my nature but I must admit I'm having a tough time imagining a good outcome.
Again, thank you all for your support.
if your mom is saying try this, then her attitude is good. good attitude is the best way to heal. with you helping her, she will conquer this and heal . please take care of yourself. laugh a lot. hugs to you and your mom sephie0 -
Everything Happening Fast Nowsephie said:great!!
if your mom is saying try this, then her attitude is good. good attitude is the best way to heal. with you helping her, she will conquer this and heal . please take care of yourself. laugh a lot. hugs to you and your mom sephie
Wow -
Things were dragging along. All of a sudden it's begun - CAT scan, mold and tattoo yesterday, bloodwork today (for biopsy of one node), biopsy and appointment with oncologist to discuss the chemo and whole picture. First treatment Monday.
Alot for her to take in but I think getting it underway will be better than sitting, waiting and worrying.
Keep you posted.0 -
Nan-PegNan-Peg11 said:Everything Happening Fast Now
Wow -
Things were dragging along. All of a sudden it's begun - CAT scan, mold and tattoo yesterday, bloodwork today (for biopsy of one node), biopsy and appointment with oncologist to discuss the chemo and whole picture. First treatment Monday.
Alot for her to take in but I think getting it underway will be better than sitting, waiting and worrying.
Keep you posted.
I wish your mom all the very best. I think it's good that things are moving right along towards the beginning of treatment.0 -
great!!! get it startedNan-Peg11 said:Everything Happening Fast Now
Wow -
Things were dragging along. All of a sudden it's begun - CAT scan, mold and tattoo yesterday, bloodwork today (for biopsy of one node), biopsy and appointment with oncologist to discuss the chemo and whole picture. First treatment Monday.
Alot for her to take in but I think getting it underway will be better than sitting, waiting and worrying.
Keep you posted.
great!!! get it started and over with. blessings to you both. sephie0 -
NOT HAVING TREATMENT ( 80 YRS OLD )
Hello Nan-Peg,
If it is ok, first I would like to ask, what are her other health conditions? If that is ok. Secondly, based on that response, depending what they are, I want to say my mom is 78, just 2 yrs younger then your mom. I know everyone is different, no 2 people can deal or put up with what another can, but my mom had very bad diverticulitis, I mean she kept getting bouts of it every like 4 mths, and back in the hosp she went, before she could give time for the healing, she would get another bout of infections, vomitting, sweating, you know it, the surgeon said they were going to keep her this last time back in OCTOBER and she had MAJOR SURGERY, but she is over not to bad weight, 145, no high bp, no diabetes, shes a skin melanoma survivor of many years. My point is, 80, is old...but sometimes, some people that age, you be surprised can withstand alot...it comes with their experience through life, and being stronger. I think if someone really had to, they would put up with doing something, if it means, saving their life. Yes, anal cancer is slow growing true, but that doesnt mean, she wont be in pain and suffering, near the time, its going to travel....through her body, because that is what will happen, toward the end, she will be i believe....worse, in pain, and near death, and might even have regrets of not having tried to save....herself when she had the chance. Survival rates for anal cancer are pretty high...I mean if my mom had anal cancer God forbid at that age, I would definitely....DO SOMETHING. I am a 6 year anal cancer survivor, of course, I got it at age 44.....im also a 9 yr breast cancer survivor, got that at age 40, neither one related. Nan? I am not sure about the surgery, as, some surgeons told me, it could spread that way.....the line of treatment, for anal cancer....is usually called, a "sandwhich effect" where the patient has....so many weeks of radiation, some of chemo and rads together, the rest of the weeks just rads....I wont lie and say it was pleasant, at some points, i thought i wanted to stop...but you cant, you need to keep going....the skin will peel and burn and itch....sitting might be difficult a bit...but there will be a constant itching and burning....I think our moms as well as any family member, at any age, would be important to us and to keep around as long as we can....think if she was older, she might get other illnesses, that she might suffer even more...then anal cancer treatments...i dont believe because someone is a certain age...that we should just do NOTHING? I think that would be very bad....i think no matter what age...expecially if she is your mother, you should apt to do something...my choice would be....the chemo/radiation, with no surgery....ask the doctor, he knows, about the sandwhich effect....i forget the 2 drugs, but it has to be done precisely correct for it to work right...rads, then rads/chemo, then rads the last weeks, booster will be part of it....if you want, they can even put your mom as inpatient, the weeks, she does the rads/chemo together....and outpatient when they do just the rads...they can give her cremes and pain meds for the itching and burning, there can be ways around that, important thing is to BLAST THAT TUMOR AWAY!!!!!!!!!! The chemo/rads are and should be done together, they should be given her a IV drip of the chemo, about 24 hour infusion i think it was, and same days, be wheeled down to radiation....ASK YOUR DOCTOR....i think, some pain and itching and discomfort...peeling of skin....for 8 weeks...at age 80, is not to to bad, to keep your mom around possibly another 5 more years? 10 more years? I would want my mom around a long time. I think it is sad to say, because shes 80, let's not do anything, not the right way to really do things...most older people live til 95, 100, suffer some things but, we don't say, well, lets not give them, a pain med, or, do anything for them, because they are old and will die anyway? no wrong way to think, we are put on this earth for a reason, as long as we are breathing, and a way to save someones life, i say GO FOR IT....it wont be easy trust me, but i think, giving her love, encouragement....and faith and hope....will pull her through. This will be 2 mths approx of treatments....if you choose the rads/chemo....she will still be 80 and, if she makes it through, probably live, a long happy life, you cant just not do anything because really? doctors say its slow growing, but how slow is slow? They are not God, only God knows, what that really means, also, as I said before, if she comes toward the end, and the cancer starts, spreading? what will you do then? she will be suffering then also, filling her with pain meds, but knowing this is going to be DEATH...and then you will think maybe i should have had her do, the anal cancer treatments...why let her get to the point of letting the cancer eat her up...and suffer...i rather have my mother suffer, knowing im saving her life. Just my opinion....is all...your mom is not that that old, there are people i know that go in surgery, even passed her age..some I know, cant do it, but, she is 80, not 85, or 90, or 95...I think she still has hope....remember, if she suffers some, you rather have her suffer, knowing your saving her life, and not, her suffer, and dying, knowing you never tried to save her. I wish you and your mom the best....I will pray for a very good outcome and May God give her the strength to make it through, and the love and encouragement from you and the rest of the family, to, give her the hope, to, make it. SHE CAN DO IT, she must be strong and fight...Im sure shes been through alot in her life...a few more weeks of suffering to save her life, im sure is worth it...no matter what age we are, we never want that to be an excuse for, not wanting to save our lives, or that of others, i say, as long as their is life, there is HOPE. God bless you all....Let us know what you decided but remember, nobody knows how fast or slow the cancer will grow, and if shes going to suffer, going out of this world, ya might as well, have her suffer, trying to save her life instead. Love and hugs, Nina~0
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