no modesty during IMRT (please don,t laugh)

prezmic

Mark E said:

Many men have a different view
VGama - I am glad that you didn't have to check your dignity at the door. Unfortunately you don't speak for all men. I know I find it up setting and, if your willing to listen, you will hear many other men expressing the same feeling of disregard.

You talk about how the nurse feels. For me it's not about her, it about how I feel.

If you want a different point of view on nurses, read the allnurses.com blog where over 500,000 nurses blog. Many have professional comments. Others talk about such things as "Nine things nurses don’t want you to know." The number one item is, "Yeah, we look..." The site seems to have tighten log-on requirements so you can look at http://patientprivacyreview.blogspot.com/2011/12/nursing-violations-of-patient-privacy.html

I don't see why people are arguing against men who have dignity concerns wanting choices? Why shouldn't we be allowed to have the same options women are given? Someone answer that instead of telling me my feelings are wrong.

Mark

I'm not shy
I have a long history of dropping troussers and have never felt uncomfortable. My experiences with IMRT were very professional from the female techs.

I routinely dropped my pants to the ankle before lying down on the table. The cover was sufficient for the techs to do their job and for my modesty. Getting up from the table involved waiting for them to lower it for me to get up, then having to bend over to retrieve my pants. If anyone was looking, I didn't notice or care.

One day the table's automatic adjustment was faulty. After several attempts to fix it, I found myself lying there with about 6 additional people in the room. One of the techs placed a sheet over me immediately. I was able to slide off the table while they repaired it.

Half way through my treatments, I had my first male tech. He suggested that I only drop my pants to the thighs. This gave me the opportunity to pull my pants back up while still lying down, before the techs returned to the room to lower me.

I appreciated the advice, which was a timesaver. It also would help anyone who is more modest than I.

Why the male tech gave me the suggestion and not the females? One could argue that the male was more considerate for my modesty. Or he didn't like the view. (lol)

Kongo

Mark E said:

Many men have a different view
VGama - I am glad that you didn't have to check your dignity at the door. Unfortunately you don't speak for all men. I know I find it up setting and, if your willing to listen, you will hear many other men expressing the same feeling of disregard.

You talk about how the nurse feels. For me it's not about her, it about how I feel.

If you want a different point of view on nurses, read the allnurses.com blog where over 500,000 nurses blog. Many have professional comments. Others talk about such things as "Nine things nurses don’t want you to know." The number one item is, "Yeah, we look..." The site seems to have tighten log-on requirements so you can look at http://patientprivacyreview.blogspot.com/2011/12/nursing-violations-of-patient-privacy.html

I don't see why people are arguing against men who have dignity concerns wanting choices? Why shouldn't we be allowed to have the same options women are given? Someone answer that instead of telling me my feelings are wrong.

Mark

Frankly my dear ...
It's not that many of us are telling you that you are wrong (wrong-headed maybe) its that we see this as a trivial diversion from why we are here which is to learn about prostate cancer and support fellow sufferers.

Dignity is something only you can give away. Nobody can take it from you unless you are a willing accomplice. Others may show you respect or not but you have absolute control over your own dignity.

Are you really concerned about losing your dignity because of a blog where some nurses might say yeah, they look at you? Good grief. This goes back to the whole education and maturity thing. You missed something along the way.

What if your male doctor or nurse was gay? Do you worry about them "checking you out?". Are you going to start sexuality checks in addition to interrogating your medical team about how they are going to cover you up? It doesn't sound as if you ever served in the military. You lose your false or misplaced modesty very quickly, but you never lose your dignity.

Mark E

Kongo said:

Frankly my dear ...
It's not that many of us are telling you that you are wrong (wrong-headed maybe) its that we see this as a trivial diversion from why we are here which is to learn about prostate cancer and support fellow sufferers.

Dignity is something only you can give away. Nobody can take it from you unless you are a willing accomplice. Others may show you respect or not but you have absolute control over your own dignity.

Are you really concerned about losing your dignity because of a blog where some nurses might say yeah, they look at you? Good grief. This goes back to the whole education and maturity thing. You missed something along the way.

What if your male doctor or nurse was gay? Do you worry about them "checking you out?". Are you going to start sexuality checks in addition to interrogating your medical team about how they are going to cover you up? It doesn't sound as if you ever served in the military. You lose your false or misplaced modesty very quickly, but you never lose your dignity.

Frankly my dear ???
Kongo – No I didn’t serve in the military. I am way too young for Vietnam and way too old for the current conflicts. ;-)

Thank-you and thanks to the other men on this forum who have served and sacrificed for our great country!

Mark

007Keiko

Kongo said:

Get a life
Disrespected and abused? Abused? Are you serious? Sounds like a bit too much drama here.

My primary concern when treating my cancer was to have the absolute best medical team available. The gender of the specialist (or staff) was never a priority nor should it be in my opinion. During my prostate cancer journey I have been examined by both male and female doctors and never have I been abused or shown disrespect. In fact, I can't recall any of those conditions whenever I have visited a doctor on any occasion PCa notwithstanding. And one thing I learned was that female doctors have smaller fingers which could be important to some during their DRE.

These attitudes are from the dark ages or, sadly, areas of the world today where an uneducated populace, religious, or cultural taboos stymie the delivery of quality medical care. Of all the things to worry about with this disease, this shouldn't even be in the discussion.

I agree with with Hopeful & Optimistic; if you are worried about it, wear a blindfold.

K

thank u so much for the

thank u so much for the sermon.

If modesty shouldn't be part of the discussion then why are females afforded more than males. That in itself would prompt some type of conversation. 

I'm 57, weight lifter, artist and modest guy just beginning a journey of male problems, both front and back and have read lots of post, seen pics and experienced enough so far to feel real shock, embarrassment, anguish and humiliation. I've read that after 30+ times, "you get used to it." So can I assume the first 29 times were anguishing, embarrassing and humiliating until whatever modesty you may have had is eventually killed or stolen from you, and now, "you just don't care." GREAT! I can hardly wait to lose this valuable part of my soul.

i believe the medical industry, administrators, schools, doctors AND nurses are completely indifferent and tone deaf to the needs of their male clients (paying customers)when it comes to intimate care or perhaps they fully know and fully realize ... How do you explain to a man at his most frighten and vulnerable (in every way) moment that, oh yeah, and you'll have to be ****-up, junk out, exposed to innumerable numbers of women, aides, observers and who knows who else, time and time again? Who on earth thinks this is a good idea!? It's a very bad idea and the only reason to perpetrate a bad idea is to fulfill a bad agenda.

 

SPT

Mark E makes an important point

LIke quality of life and informed consent, dignity and respect are just words to far too many doctors and medical staff.

When a person is being treated for a terminal illness making some effort to preserve their modesty and dignity is a small thing to ask of paid staff, and a potentially very large benefit to some patients.  Cancer rips away sex, mind, mood.  It destroys marriage, strains finances, and causes depression.  Why is it necessary to further humilate this man who has already lost so much of his life?  How can you expect him to trust that his team actually cares for him when they refuse to offer him the respect they would automatically grant to a homeless person?

You may not care if young women handle or see your man bits, but some men do.  Women are never put into that situation.  Why is that?  Are the feelings of female cancer patients more valuable, more relevant to their treatment and well being than those of male patients?

Mark E makes another good point: nothing will change if no one speaks up.  This may not be your fight, but show some respect for the people who care about it.

FinishingGrace

SPT said:

Mark E makes an important point

LIke quality of life and informed consent, dignity and respect are just words to far too many doctors and medical staff.

When a person is being treated for a terminal illness making some effort to preserve their modesty and dignity is a small thing to ask of paid staff, and a potentially very large benefit to some patients.  Cancer rips away sex, mind, mood.  It destroys marriage, strains finances, and causes depression.  Why is it necessary to further humilate this man who has already lost so much of his life?  How can you expect him to trust that his team actually cares for him when they refuse to offer him the respect they would automatically grant to a homeless person?

You may not care if young women handle or see your man bits, but some men do.  Women are never put into that situation.  Why is that?  Are the feelings of female cancer patients more valuable, more relevant to their treatment and well being than those of male patients?

Mark E makes another good point: nothing will change if no one speaks up.  This may not be your fight, but show some respect for the people who care about it.

We are all in this together

"Women are never put into that situation."

I agree with everything you have said here except for the above quote. Women are put into that situation every single day. Male nurses, male doctors, male surgeons, male imaging techs, not to mention OB/GYNs that are all up in our business more times than I care to remember.

This is not a male versus female problem as both genders have long had to suffer indignities in a medical setting. This is, like you said, about preserving the modesty and dignity of those suffering from any given condition.

SPT

FinishingGrace said:

We are all in this together

"Women are never put into that situation."

I agree with everything you have said here except for the above quote. Women are put into that situation every single day. Male nurses, male doctors, male surgeons, male imaging techs, not to mention OB/GYNs that are all up in our business more times than I care to remember.

This is not a male versus female problem as both genders have long had to suffer indignities in a medical setting. This is, like you said, about preserving the modesty and dignity of those suffering from any given condition.

"Never" might have been too strong

I'll concede that when I wrote "Women are never put into that situation"  I may have overstated the case.  Never is too strong a word.

But Mark E's point is a good one, and matches my experience.  Women are much more likely to be offered the choice of same gender care, and many women seem much more willing than men to demand it.

I've never understood why any male OB/GYN has any patients at all, but everyone gets to choose.  My wife will only see a female OB/GYN and I understand and support her choice.  I would still support her if it were the opposite, but that would surprise me.

You're quite right that this is really about preserving the modesty and dignity of people who are already suffering.  In many cases the additional effort is small to trivial.  There really is no excuse for the blatant disrespect shown to patients throughout our medical system.

Clevelandguy

Pop corn

I know of a guy that on his last radiation treament for testicular cancer taped a bag of un- popped pop corn on his groin.  The radiologist got a big kick out of it.  You guys are right most people like nurses, doctors, ect has seen it all so it no big deal.  It's usually the patient that has the modesty problems.  Kinda of hard to pull down the pants and show your junk to someone you don't know, at least it is for me.

 

Dave 3+4

SPT

Mark E said:

Many men have a different view
VGama - I am glad that you didn't have to check your dignity at the door. Unfortunately you don't speak for all men. I know I find it up setting and, if your willing to listen, you will hear many other men expressing the same feeling of disregard.

You talk about how the nurse feels. For me it's not about her, it about how I feel.

If you want a different point of view on nurses, read the allnurses.com blog where over 500,000 nurses blog. Many have professional comments. Others talk about such things as "Nine things nurses don’t want you to know." The number one item is, "Yeah, we look..." The site seems to have tighten log-on requirements so you can look at http://patientprivacyreview.blogspot.com/2011/12/nursing-violations-of-patient-privacy.html

I don't see why people are arguing against men who have dignity concerns wanting choices? Why shouldn't we be allowed to have the same options women are given? Someone answer that instead of telling me my feelings are wrong.

Mark

The Nine things nurses don't want you to know thread is gone
allnurses.com deleted that thread, too close to the unspeakable truth.

Here's the first of the nine things, verbatim:

1) Yeah, we look......and no, we're not above whispering to our co-workers, "Psst! Did you get a peek at the guy with the foot-long whatsis in 216?" There, I said it. We DO check out patients with unusual physical characteristics, mainly because we've seen so many naked bodies that one derriere looks like every other after a while. But not to worry: HIPAA is alive and well, and the secret of your "nonconformity" is safe with us.....at least till we get to the break room.

SPT

SPT said:

The Nine things nurses don't want you to know thread is gone
allnurses.com deleted that thread, too close to the unspeakable truth.

Here's the first of the nine things, verbatim:

1) Yeah, we look......and no, we're not above whispering to our co-workers, "Psst! Did you get a peek at the guy with the foot-long whatsis in 216?" There, I said it. We DO check out patients with unusual physical characteristics, mainly because we've seen so many naked bodies that one derriere looks like every other after a while. But not to worry: HIPAA is alive and well, and the secret of your "nonconformity" is safe with us.....at least till we get to the break room.

found "Nine things nurses..." on the wayback machine

 

Addressed to a hypothetical patient, here are a few things we see and talk about among ourselves that would appall the general public if such knowledge became widespread. On the other hand, it just might give them a reason to treat us with a little more respect the next time they find themselves on the receiving end of nursing care........

First, a disclaimer: If you're a patient who really doesn't have any curiosity about nurses, it's best to stop reading right here. You probably won't like what you see......or get why it was necessary to write this piece in the first place.

If, however, you wonder about what makes us tick---and you wouldn't be here on a site called Allnurses if you didn't---here is a brief list of some of our darkest secrets.....things we don't want you to know lest it dispel the popular image of us as angels in white who live to fluff pillows and bend straws.

 

1) Yeah, we look......and no, we're not above whispering to our co-workers, "Psst! Did you get a peek at the guy with the foot-long whatsis in 216?" There, I said it. We DO check out patients with unusual physical characteristics, mainly because we've seen so many naked bodies that one derriere looks like every other after a while. But not to worry: HIPAA is alive and well, and the secret of your "nonconformity" is safe with us.....at least till we get to the break room.

2) A lot of us would really rather do something else, but nursing pays the bills. I'll be the first to admit I was one of those idealists who believed nursing was a calling for the first 10 years I was doing it; now I know better. And while I do like my current job, I like being able to eat and make the house and car payments in the same month even better......and if I could do it while working at something less stressful and demanding I'd be outtahere in a New York minute.

3) We are here, in no small part, to keep doctors from killing you. I'm only half-kidding. Doctors may have more formal education than we do, but some of them get too big for their britches, and there are too many of 'em who haven't the faintest clue that the patient is a person and not a diagnosis. They act like little tin gods, and seem to believe we lowly nurses should bow and scrape and obey their commands to the nth degree. To which the average nurse says: PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTH.

4) Patients we despise, in no particular order:a) abusers of all stripes; b) drug-seekers; c) middle-aged females with intractible nausea/vomiting/abdominal pain for which no cause is EVER found; d) anyone with a hovercraft family that criticizes everything and is prone to "fire" nurses. Just try pulling that stunt at the airport and see how much "service" you get.....!

5) Sometimes, even we crusty veterans have to go cry in the bathroom. We may look professional, we may remain rather unemotional and say all the stuff we're supposed to say when the code goes south.......but on the inside, we're almost as torn up as you are, and on top of that we're angry because we couldn't save your loved one.

6) Speaking of anger, sometimes you REALLY twerk us off. And we are not going to like taking care of you if you don't want to help yourself, if you're verbally or physically abusive, if you demand more than your share of our attention and act as if it's your birthright to treat us like slaves. We are not little emotionless robots; we are human beings just like you, with feelings as sensitive as your own. Deal with it.

7) The vast majority of us are not interested in dating outside our species. 'Nuff said.

8) The candy and flowers are nice...but I personally would rather have a nice thank-you letter, preferably sent to my boss so it can be placed in my personnel file (next to the write-up I once got for calling in sick when I caught the Norwalk virus and puked up my toenails for two days).

9) No, we are most certainly NOT angels or "naughty nurses". Please get those stupid stereotypes out of your head right now, and understand that we are professionals deserving of respect. Sure, we make mistakes; we occasionally forget that we are glorified waitresses and fail to bring your Coke right away; we may not answer your call light within 30 seconds; sometimes, we even give you the wrong medication (and pray to God you're okay so that we don't wind up going before the state board of nursing to defend our license).

Truth is, every single one of us worked hard to get where we are, and I can tell you straight up that nursing is one of the most difficult jobs there is. It's gritty, it's dirty, and at times it's positively frightening.......definitely not a job for sissies. We see people at their best, but more often at their worst; we see life begin, and we see it end---sometimes tragically. Yet through it all, we nurse because it's more than what we do, it's literally who we are. No matter how much some of us may wish that weren't the truth.......and that's something this nurse REALLY didn't want you to know.

Trew

Ongoing problem- Scar Tissue

I was just back into the OR a week ago to get returning scar tissue removed from the urethra up close to where the AMS is.

 

Before the AMS I was scoped every 2 months for a year to see if the scar tissue (removed by surgery by a good female doctor) was returning.  Once that year was up, AMS installed, no more problems for 6 years.  Now, scar tissue is back. doc scoped the urethra to confirm the cause of a smaller urine stream and back to surgery I went.  No scapal this time- doc said it was too close to wehre the AMS  was and he just deactivated the AMS and used the old file method.  

 

I remember thinking, "hey, I got past this modesty thing before, I can do it again."  I did.

 

bassoneman

Trew said:

Ongoing problem- Scar Tissue

I was just back into the OR a week ago to get returning scar tissue removed from the urethra up close to where the AMS is.

 

Before the AMS I was scoped every 2 months for a year to see if the scar tissue (removed by surgery by a good female doctor) was returning.  Once that year was up, AMS installed, no more problems for 6 years.  Now, scar tissue is back. doc scoped the urethra to confirm the cause of a smaller urine stream and back to surgery I went.  No scapal this time- doc said it was too close to wehre the AMS  was and he just deactivated the AMS and used the old file method.  

 

I remember thinking, "hey, I got past this modesty thing before, I can do it again."  I did.

 

A little to close for comfort

Those dots can be hard to see sometimes I guess..  I was on about my 20th treatmnet out of 40 and this new nurse came in to do the line up..  The problem was she was I guess really far sighted..  When you feel breath.. it is too close...  I said to her hey thats close..  she laughed.. she said.. just trying to line up the dots...  loved the humor... the nurses I had were fun but I don't take things too seriosly either.. I had another experince just before doing radiation a bout 3 or four months before I was having a colonoscopy and the female nurse is near my butt as I am lying on the table..  She starts talking to me..  Now My butt is in the open and I am lying on my side..  As she is talking she puts her hand on my butt cheek as we are conversing like putting your hand on a chair or something..  I don't think she realied she did it..  She kept it there while she was talikg to me..  Then i went down for the count..