Cachexia - body degradation/starvation due to cancer.

PatMiza

has anyone delt with cachexia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cachexia, and has something useful to share about it. How often does a cancer completely starve a person. It's horrible to watch, but something my Mother is experiencing. What can be done?

Marcia527

When my mom had cancer they
When my mom had cancer they didn't catch it early enough and I believe her cancer was taking all the nourishment instead of the body. She took tons of supplements and vitamins but was weak and didn't look healthy. When they discovered the cancer her tumor was ten pounds and the size of a small basketball. The doctor said she was malnourished. I didn't know there was a name for it.

What can be done depends. Her doctor is the best person to know what to do.

Hugs,
marcia

carkris

Marcia527 said:

When my mom had cancer they
When my mom had cancer they didn't catch it early enough and I believe her cancer was taking all the nourishment instead of the body. She took tons of supplements and vitamins but was weak and didn't look healthy. When they discovered the cancer her tumor was ten pounds and the size of a small basketball. The doctor said she was malnourished. I didn't know there was a name for it.

What can be done depends. Her doctor is the best person to know what to do.

Hugs,
marcia

hmm never heard of this
hmm never heard of this althoug a chchetic person is starved and malnourished never heard of it as a syndrome. However the treatment made me that way and I lost 80 pounds, couldnt eat much and had other issues.

Folliculitis Horse

What's Her Status?
I she currently in any treatment?

PatMiza

Marcia527 said:

When my mom had cancer they
When my mom had cancer they didn't catch it early enough and I believe her cancer was taking all the nourishment instead of the body. She took tons of supplements and vitamins but was weak and didn't look healthy. When they discovered the cancer her tumor was ten pounds and the size of a small basketball. The doctor said she was malnourished. I didn't know there was a name for it.

What can be done depends. Her doctor is the best person to know what to do.

Hugs,
marcia

her oncologist knows the
her oncologist knows the cancer will kill her soon, and he knows he won't do anything about it cause all he knows is chemotherapy. I don't think he is the best person to know what can help her. as for the doctor at the hospice, like the oncologist, very nice, but I'm even afraid to ask, they just want to painkill her to death. she is obviously going through cachexia, a common occurance I would think among patients at a hospice, and omega3 is suppose to be the most effective suppplement in this case, yet he didn't know anything about it.

PatMiza

Folliculitis Horse said:

What's Her Status?
I she currently in any treatment?

she is at a hospice. after
she is at a hospice. after her initial successful treatment the cancer returned in new locations, her spine and bones. the oncologist gave up after the first round of the new chemo because the cancer grew during that round. she lost a lot of muscle mass in the last months and can barely move her legs now. she sleeps a lot, always tired. The cancer is eating her body, omega3 is suppose to help. there are some other treatments but it isn't chemo, radiation or surgury so doctors don't even want to talk about it. I'm glad she was allowed to take omega3 as a supplement, probably just to keep me quiet. I always hoped my mother could enjoy life in her later years, instead she gets pain and cachexia.

CypressCynthia

PatMiza said:

she is at a hospice. after
she is at a hospice. after her initial successful treatment the cancer returned in new locations, her spine and bones. the oncologist gave up after the first round of the new chemo because the cancer grew during that round. she lost a lot of muscle mass in the last months and can barely move her legs now. she sleeps a lot, always tired. The cancer is eating her body, omega3 is suppose to help. there are some other treatments but it isn't chemo, radiation or surgury so doctors don't even want to talk about it. I'm glad she was allowed to take omega3 as a supplement, probably just to keep me quiet. I always hoped my mother could enjoy life in her later years, instead she gets pain and cachexia.

I so sorry that your mother
I so sorry that your mother is suffering. Cachexia is a fairly frequent complication with advanced cancer--maybe because cancer cells are hypermetabolic and "eat more", but I believe the cause is not clearly understood.

It may be hard to find ways to get your mom to eat higher caloric foods as she may not have the appetite for them. In this case, if your state allows it, medical marijuana can sometimes really help stimulate appetite. You could also ask to speak with a nutritionist about suggestions for increasing caloric intake. Sometimes freezing a supplement (such as Ensure) can make it more appetizing--a good nutritionist will have some great tips.

But, if it was me, I would want the main focus to be on making my last days as comfortable as possible. Pain relief and happy pills would be what I would want if hospice were involved. Comfort care can include massage, letting her eat whatever she wants and can tolerate, treating nausea, etc.

I hope this helps. I am praying for you both tonight. Please let me know how you are doing.

Here is a link that might help (from Vancouver Island Health Authority):

Nutrition and Cachexia

carkris

CypressCynthia said:

I so sorry that your mother
I so sorry that your mother is suffering. Cachexia is a fairly frequent complication with advanced cancer--maybe because cancer cells are hypermetabolic and "eat more", but I believe the cause is not clearly understood.

It may be hard to find ways to get your mom to eat higher caloric foods as she may not have the appetite for them. In this case, if your state allows it, medical marijuana can sometimes really help stimulate appetite. You could also ask to speak with a nutritionist about suggestions for increasing caloric intake. Sometimes freezing a supplement (such as Ensure) can make it more appetizing--a good nutritionist will have some great tips.

But, if it was me, I would want the main focus to be on making my last days as comfortable as possible. Pain relief and happy pills would be what I would want if hospice were involved. Comfort care can include massage, letting her eat whatever she wants and can tolerate, treating nausea, etc.

I hope this helps. I am praying for you both tonight. Please let me know how you are doing.

Here is a link that might help (from Vancouver Island Health Authority):

Nutrition and Cachexia

isnt there an oral type of
isnt there an oral type of marjuana?

CypressCynthia

carkris said:

isnt there an oral type of
isnt there an oral type of marjuana?

I was given marinol (legal,
I was given marinol (legal, synthetic marijuana) many years ago. I have to be honest; I didn't find that it worked as well as the real stuff. And the real stuff didn't work as well for me as prescription meds. However, I didn't have cachexia--just extreme nausea and vomiting.

The marinol is definitely worth a try--just because it didn't work for me doesn't mean it won't work for someone else. We are all soooo different!

PatMiza

CypressCynthia said:

I so sorry that your mother
I so sorry that your mother is suffering. Cachexia is a fairly frequent complication with advanced cancer--maybe because cancer cells are hypermetabolic and "eat more", but I believe the cause is not clearly understood.

It may be hard to find ways to get your mom to eat higher caloric foods as she may not have the appetite for them. In this case, if your state allows it, medical marijuana can sometimes really help stimulate appetite. You could also ask to speak with a nutritionist about suggestions for increasing caloric intake. Sometimes freezing a supplement (such as Ensure) can make it more appetizing--a good nutritionist will have some great tips.

But, if it was me, I would want the main focus to be on making my last days as comfortable as possible. Pain relief and happy pills would be what I would want if hospice were involved. Comfort care can include massage, letting her eat whatever she wants and can tolerate, treating nausea, etc.

I hope this helps. I am praying for you both tonight. Please let me know how you are doing.

Here is a link that might help (from Vancouver Island Health Authority):

Nutrition and Cachexia

thank you for your help. she
thank you for your help. she seems to be getting weaker everyday and it's hard for me to not be able to help her get stronger. She is actually annoyed with me trying to encourage her to eat all the time. we will try new things. thanks again

CypressCynthia

PatMiza said:

thank you for your help. she
thank you for your help. she seems to be getting weaker everyday and it's hard for me to not be able to help her get stronger. She is actually annoyed with me trying to encourage her to eat all the time. we will try new things. thanks again

You are in a very difficult
You are in a very difficult spot and it is normal to feel panicky. Take your cues from your mom though and try and keep her as comfortable as possible. Sometimes more aggressive interventions only make everything worse and can make patients less happy. My grandmother, at 95, was given an IV and IV fluids and antibiotics. The IV fluid ended up in her lungs and made her respirations gurgly and made her miserable. When we stopped the treatments, she was much more comfortable in her final days.

Here is some more information (from Mayo Clinic) about providing comfort to a loved one in the final throes of cancer:

Providing Comfort

I have been through what you are going through with my parents and grandmother. If I can do anything to help, feel free to PM me. And please take care of yourself too--this is a very sad and trying time for you. I am here for you.

Angie2U

carkris said:

hmm never heard of this
hmm never heard of this althoug a chchetic person is starved and malnourished never heard of it as a syndrome. However the treatment made me that way and I lost 80 pounds, couldnt eat much and had other issues.

I've never heard of this.

I've never heard of this.

PatMiza

CypressCynthia said:

You are in a very difficult
You are in a very difficult spot and it is normal to feel panicky. Take your cues from your mom though and try and keep her as comfortable as possible. Sometimes more aggressive interventions only make everything worse and can make patients less happy. My grandmother, at 95, was given an IV and IV fluids and antibiotics. The IV fluid ended up in her lungs and made her respirations gurgly and made her miserable. When we stopped the treatments, she was much more comfortable in her final days.

Here is some more information (from Mayo Clinic) about providing comfort to a loved one in the final throes of cancer:

Providing Comfort

I have been through what you are going through with my parents and grandmother. If I can do anything to help, feel free to PM me. And please take care of yourself too--this is a very sad and trying time for you. I am here for you.

thank you again for the
thank you again for the support and suggestions. comfort is important now for her. FYI from what I read about CACHEXIA, it is most likely the cancer is not competing for food, and eating well will not stop body degradation/starvation. The cancer has poisoned the blood and confussed the body into starving itself and basically eating itself (muscle/fat). To prevent or delay complete paralysis this condition has to be treated with the few treatments that have shown to work somewhat. My mother is losing strength in her arms, can barely move her right arm now, her left is the only one now. How do I adress all this with her hospice doctor. He seems well educated but I don't think he knows about this, or has decided to ignore this condition. I want to talk to him tomorrow. I think I'll give the pdf you provided and speak to him about why she is so weak. THE BODY IS EATING ITSELF. even having a lot of hungry cancer doesnt seem to explain this. she is eating enough to keep two ppl with her size and activity well, in my opinion

good article explaining this from 7YEARS! ago. http://www.oncolink.org/resources/article.cfm?c=3&s=38&ss=164&id=828

CypressCynthia

PatMiza said:

thank you again for the
thank you again for the support and suggestions. comfort is important now for her. FYI from what I read about CACHEXIA, it is most likely the cancer is not competing for food, and eating well will not stop body degradation/starvation. The cancer has poisoned the blood and confussed the body into starving itself and basically eating itself (muscle/fat). To prevent or delay complete paralysis this condition has to be treated with the few treatments that have shown to work somewhat. My mother is losing strength in her arms, can barely move her right arm now, her left is the only one now. How do I adress all this with her hospice doctor. He seems well educated but I don't think he knows about this, or has decided to ignore this condition. I want to talk to him tomorrow. I think I'll give the pdf you provided and speak to him about why she is so weak. THE BODY IS EATING ITSELF. even having a lot of hungry cancer doesnt seem to explain this. she is eating enough to keep two ppl with her size and activity well, in my opinion

good article explaining this from 7YEARS! ago. http://www.oncolink.org/resources/article.cfm?c=3&s=38&ss=164&id=828

Thank you for the
Thank you for the informative link. Cachexia sounds as if it is truly terrible, not well understood and treatments are not very effective. What a frustrating, heartbreaking development for a caregiver. I am praying for you both.

DianeBC

CypressCynthia said:

Thank you for the
Thank you for the informative link. Cachexia sounds as if it is truly terrible, not well understood and treatments are not very effective. What a frustrating, heartbreaking development for a caregiver. I am praying for you both.

This is so sad and please
This is so sad and please know how very sorry I am that this is happening to your Mother. I will pray for both of you.


Hugs, Diane