Weight, exercise and cancer risk

Tina Brown

Hi everyone I picked up a MacMillian cancer booklet the other day at my hospital called "Exercise after cancer treatment" as I am wanting to get my fitness back. Half way through the booklet there was a section about how oestrogen plays a part in our cancers:

"The female hormone oestrogen is linked with breast cancer and womb cancer. Before the menopause oestrogen is produced by the ovaries, but after the menopause oestrogen is made by body fat. Being overweight increases the amount of fat in the body & women who are overweight have higher than usual levels of oestrogen. In both breast and womb cancers the more fat there is, the higher the amount of oestrogen the body makes. It is thought that around 4 out of 10 womb cancers (40%) may be caused by being obese"

My oncologists have never mentioned the risk of being overweight has on my cancer but it has spurred me on to lose weight and get back in shape.

Tina xx

mopar

HI, TINA
Yes, excess fat (especially around the waist) is linked to estrogen. I suspsect I have zero estrogen or at least very close to it. You wouldn't know that by looking at my waist, as I truly have weight to lose. I know my estrogen is low because intimacy is virtually impossible. I've seen the 'sex' postings, and can appreciate all points of view. I agree with you that 'love' is key. And I must be the most blessed woman around. My husband of 36 years treats me like a queen - always has. I believe that's in large part due to our strong faith in God, and my husbands good character in general. Although he has some health issues, they don't present the limitations that I have (I'll post in the 'sex' forum). His patience with me is unending.

Anyway, back to the weight issue. I have been struggling ever since 2000. Initially, I lost so much weight from not having anything to eat for 10 days. Even though I had just been diagnosed with OVCA, had surgery and chemo, I felt light and so good. Then once I started packing on the pounds due to steroids during chemo and other factors (definitely not because of overeating), it became harder and harder to lose. Finally got a grip on it, then had a recurrance in 2006. Back to the same thing again, and now my thyroid is totally shot. Well, I'm continuing to work on this no matter what. I've had some great success, and a few setbacks. But although I'd love to have a svelt body so I wouldn't have to worry about what I'm not able to wear, my main concern will always be health. More doctors should make the connection, and encourage their patients with support and suggestions to deal with this side affect of OVCA or any other cancer.

Hope I didn't 'talk' your ear off. Just discouraging words coming from someone who has always be nutritionally/exercise conscious. This extra weight feels yucky!

(((HUGS)))
Monika

Christine B.

Arguments For a Low Fat & High Fiber Diet
I just tried to post a longer version of the following but when I clicked Post Comment it just disappeared So here it is in a shorter form:

In an effort to build my immune system and get stronger as my doctors recommended without giving any suggestions on how to go about it, I decided to make some changes myself. One thing I did was to attend a series of cooking classes put on by the cancerproject.org and here is something that I learned about estrogen. The estrogen hormone is meant to help cells grow of course, but excess estrogen also helps cancer cells grow. When the extra estrogen and other toxins go through the liver they will attach to fiber and be carried out of the body in the bile duct. If there is no fiber they will just continue to be reabsorbed into the bloodstream and eventually find a cancer cell to feed. Thus the argument for adding at least 40 grams of fiber to the diet. This includes 3 or more servings of fruits and legumes, 4 or more vegetables, 6 or more whole grains.

They state that when a woman changes her diet to a low fat high fiber diet her estrogen level will go down almost immediately. However,evidence showed that a woman should make big changes in her diet to be effective in fighting cancer.

I have also read the Anticancer book by Dr. Schreiber and Foods to Fight Cancer by Dr. Beliveau. My new routine is to take out my Jack La Lane juicer and make all concoctions of cruciferous vegetables, fruit, berries, carrots, beets..... It's been fun trying new recipes like chocolate mousse made with tofu and "cheesy sauce" without cheese. I eat things like whole grain cereal like Grape Nuts with rice milk for breakfast and whole grain spaghetti with tomato sauce and spicy black bean soup. The other night I went out to dinner with my mom to PF Chang's and had delicious crispy tofu and broccoli with brown rice and the best green tea ever!

I might be grasping at straws here in my fight with OVCA, but I do have more energy for exercise and I'm feeling better than when this nightmare began. I figure it can't hurt.

Chris

Unknown

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

Unknown

Christine B. said:

Arguments For a Low Fat & High Fiber Diet
I just tried to post a longer version of the following but when I clicked Post Comment it just disappeared So here it is in a shorter form:

In an effort to build my immune system and get stronger as my doctors recommended without giving any suggestions on how to go about it, I decided to make some changes myself. One thing I did was to attend a series of cooking classes put on by the cancerproject.org and here is something that I learned about estrogen. The estrogen hormone is meant to help cells grow of course, but excess estrogen also helps cancer cells grow. When the extra estrogen and other toxins go through the liver they will attach to fiber and be carried out of the body in the bile duct. If there is no fiber they will just continue to be reabsorbed into the bloodstream and eventually find a cancer cell to feed. Thus the argument for adding at least 40 grams of fiber to the diet. This includes 3 or more servings of fruits and legumes, 4 or more vegetables, 6 or more whole grains.

They state that when a woman changes her diet to a low fat high fiber diet her estrogen level will go down almost immediately. However,evidence showed that a woman should make big changes in her diet to be effective in fighting cancer.

I have also read the Anticancer book by Dr. Schreiber and Foods to Fight Cancer by Dr. Beliveau. My new routine is to take out my Jack La Lane juicer and make all concoctions of cruciferous vegetables, fruit, berries, carrots, beets..... It's been fun trying new recipes like chocolate mousse made with tofu and "cheesy sauce" without cheese. I eat things like whole grain cereal like Grape Nuts with rice milk for breakfast and whole grain spaghetti with tomato sauce and spicy black bean soup. The other night I went out to dinner with my mom to PF Chang's and had delicious crispy tofu and broccoli with brown rice and the best green tea ever!

I might be grasping at straws here in my fight with OVCA, but I do have more energy for exercise and I'm feeling better than when this nightmare began. I figure it can't hurt.

Chris

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

Tethys41

Christine B. said:

Arguments For a Low Fat & High Fiber Diet
I just tried to post a longer version of the following but when I clicked Post Comment it just disappeared So here it is in a shorter form:

In an effort to build my immune system and get stronger as my doctors recommended without giving any suggestions on how to go about it, I decided to make some changes myself. One thing I did was to attend a series of cooking classes put on by the cancerproject.org and here is something that I learned about estrogen. The estrogen hormone is meant to help cells grow of course, but excess estrogen also helps cancer cells grow. When the extra estrogen and other toxins go through the liver they will attach to fiber and be carried out of the body in the bile duct. If there is no fiber they will just continue to be reabsorbed into the bloodstream and eventually find a cancer cell to feed. Thus the argument for adding at least 40 grams of fiber to the diet. This includes 3 or more servings of fruits and legumes, 4 or more vegetables, 6 or more whole grains.

They state that when a woman changes her diet to a low fat high fiber diet her estrogen level will go down almost immediately. However,evidence showed that a woman should make big changes in her diet to be effective in fighting cancer.

I have also read the Anticancer book by Dr. Schreiber and Foods to Fight Cancer by Dr. Beliveau. My new routine is to take out my Jack La Lane juicer and make all concoctions of cruciferous vegetables, fruit, berries, carrots, beets..... It's been fun trying new recipes like chocolate mousse made with tofu and "cheesy sauce" without cheese. I eat things like whole grain cereal like Grape Nuts with rice milk for breakfast and whole grain spaghetti with tomato sauce and spicy black bean soup. The other night I went out to dinner with my mom to PF Chang's and had delicious crispy tofu and broccoli with brown rice and the best green tea ever!

I might be grasping at straws here in my fight with OVCA, but I do have more energy for exercise and I'm feeling better than when this nightmare began. I figure it can't hurt.

Chris

Diet
There are numerous opinions about proper diet following cancer treatment. Some of the things I have heard, that have not been posted on this thread include:
1.) You should not attempt to lose weight by dieting for a year after chemo. Just because your chemo treatment is over, does not mean your body is strong enough to endure reduced caloric intake. It is important to rebuild your body following chemo by eating healthy foods, including healthy fats. There are alternatives, however. Exercise, especially muscle building exercise, will reduce your percent body fat.
2.) Regardless of a cancer diagnosis, the typical low fat products are less healthy than the regular products. Low fat dairy products for example may have a few less grams of fat, but will have a lot more sugar. Eating healthy fats, like olive oil and omega fatty acids benefit your body, while increased sugar intake is not recommended for anyone, especially cancer survivors.
3.) There are hidden hormones in many foods including meats that are not raised properly. There are also foods that contain hormone-like products such as soy, which includes tofu. If you have a history of hormone sensitive tumors, these foods need to be avoided.
4.) Plastics contain PBA's which look like hormones to the body. Using plastic water bottles and plastic containers and plastic bags to contain hot foods release these chemicals into the food and water you ingest. Glass food containers and metal, glass, or BPA-free plastic water bottles are a safer option.

Tethys41

unknown said:

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Swimming
I swim with my port. If it has been accessed within 24 hours of a swim, I cover it with water-proof tape. Otherwise, it's fine. I practice multiple diet and lifestyle restrictions to stay healthy. If I swim in a pool with chemicals, I sit in a Far-Infrared sauna for about a half an hour within 24 hours of swimming. This releases the chemicals that my body absorbed from the pool water.

Tethys41

unknown said:

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Supplements
My doctor told me the same thing about not taking supplements. I have, however, worked with a naturopath throughout my treatment. She said I could take supplements during chemo, but to discontinue them for 48 hours before and after an infusion. Antioxidants can interfere with the effectiveness of chemo drugs. The half-life of chemo drugs, however, is 24 to 48 hours. Therefore, the chemo drugs are only doing their job during that period of time following a treatment. As long as the antioxidants are out of your system when you receive the infusion and for the next couple of days, they will not interfere with the drugs. And your body will benefit from the antioxidant effects if you are taking them between treatments.

Christine B.

Tethys41 said:

Supplements
My doctor told me the same thing about not taking supplements. I have, however, worked with a naturopath throughout my treatment. She said I could take supplements during chemo, but to discontinue them for 48 hours before and after an infusion. Antioxidants can interfere with the effectiveness of chemo drugs. The half-life of chemo drugs, however, is 24 to 48 hours. Therefore, the chemo drugs are only doing their job during that period of time following a treatment. As long as the antioxidants are out of your system when you receive the infusion and for the next couple of days, they will not interfere with the drugs. And your body will benefit from the antioxidant effects if you are taking them between treatments.

Good to know about chemo and supplements....
Thank you, This is good to know. My doctors did not tell me about this while I was on chemo. I did not begin juicing or the green tea until after my treatments were finished in February. It was recommended that I take a three month break to strengthen my body after surgery and chemo. I will be seeing the doctors again at the end of this month and get my blood checked, we'll go from there, I expect more chemo as I had a few small tumors yet per CT scan. I will talk to my doctors again keeping the information you shared in mind. As far as soy, I think it would be best to use other meat and dairy alternatives such as all sorts of beans and rice or almond milk. I did use garbanzos in a recipe that called for tofu, and it was just as good. I have heard that lentils are the best however for protein and nutrition.

LaundryQueen

Tethys41 said:

Swimming
I swim with my port. If it has been accessed within 24 hours of a swim, I cover it with water-proof tape. Otherwise, it's fine. I practice multiple diet and lifestyle restrictions to stay healthy. If I swim in a pool with chemicals, I sit in a Far-Infrared sauna for about a half an hour within 24 hours of swimming. This releases the chemicals that my body absorbed from the pool water.

Such good information!
I love seeing the good information that has been provided in this thread! I want to add that you lose weight when you sleep so getting good sleep is really important.

I am another survivor who is following the anticancer way of life. The hardest thing is stress management for me. I have to do a lot of self talk and deep, slow breathing to help me deal with the unpredictable, uncontrollable events of life.

I am planning to take an airplane flight this week and I was told today by my integrative doctor that I should NOT go thru the scanner at the local airport. He said that some scanners are low-level radiation so, just to be extra careful, I should "opt out" and have the "pat down" instead. He is REALLY careful about radiation exposure with his own family also.

I declined the steroids early on in my chemotherapy regimen. I said "If I have an allergic reaction, then give me the decadron--otherwise, I don't want to take it." I don't want the cataracts to progress prematurely.

Sorry, I went off topic on this one.

LQ

Unknown

Tethys41 said:

Supplements
My doctor told me the same thing about not taking supplements. I have, however, worked with a naturopath throughout my treatment. She said I could take supplements during chemo, but to discontinue them for 48 hours before and after an infusion. Antioxidants can interfere with the effectiveness of chemo drugs. The half-life of chemo drugs, however, is 24 to 48 hours. Therefore, the chemo drugs are only doing their job during that period of time following a treatment. As long as the antioxidants are out of your system when you receive the infusion and for the next couple of days, they will not interfere with the drugs. And your body will benefit from the antioxidant effects if you are taking them between treatments.

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

Tethys41

unknown said:

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

Vitamins
Actually, B vitamins, and multivitamins and minerals, are okay to take throughout treatment, even the day of. Avoid taking iron or copper, however, as they tend to contribute to the health of the cancer cells. I used to get a vitamin B6 and B12 injection the day before chemo to do the same thing your oral supplements are aimed at, avoiding neuropathy. I also expereienced very little neuropathy.

There are some other supplements you can take throughout the treatments. Shitake mushroom extract helps the chemo drugs work more effectively. So, I was always sure to take some the day of my chemo treatments, as well as between treatments. You can buy this extract in capsules at any health food store.

Tethys41

unknown said:

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

Nausea
I'm not sure, but I think the chemo side effects have to do with the body's attempts to detoxify the chemo drugs. I know in my case that I felt the ill effects from each treatment for about two and a half weeks. I just started feeling better right before my next round. I later learned that my detox pathway for Taxol is compromised, due to my genetics.

Tina Brown

unknown said:

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

Hello Robin
What is decahedron? I have got fat during chemo - I think it may be the steroids. I hate being fat but I have tried to lose weight and after 4 weeks of slimming I am exactly the same weight I was when I started - what a waste of 4 weeks

I love swimming but I don't have a port. I just get in the local pool and do lengths. I am bald but I don't let it bother me. I am up to 34 lengths.

Tina xx

lindaprocopio

Tina Brown said:

Hello Robin
What is decahedron? I have got fat during chemo - I think it may be the steroids. I hate being fat but I have tried to lose weight and after 4 weeks of slimming I am exactly the same weight I was when I started - what a waste of 4 weeks

I love swimming but I don't have a port. I just get in the local pool and do lengths. I am bald but I don't let it bother me. I am up to 34 lengths.

Tina xx

What about cancers that are ER- and PR- ??
I worked in a health club teaching aerobics and weight lifting and have been an organic gardener eating a high fiber diet my whole adult life; I was never bigger than a size 4 before I had cancer. (Now I'm a flabby size 8.) And, as it turns out, tissue assays show that my cancer is estrogen-receptive NEGATIVE and progesterone receptive NEGATIVE. In a case like mine, is there any advantage in avoiding foods associated with hormones? (My gynecologic oncologist has actually prescribed a hormone creme for me to use vaginally since he says it can do me no harm and can do wonders in maintaining my elasticity and sex life.)

& are you SURE about that 48 hours for chemo activity? I've had my CA125 drop weeks after a post chemo lab, and my oncologist said that the chemo continues working for weeks in there. The fact that your nadir is often 10 to 15 days after a treatment must mean that the chemo is still beating you (& your cancer) up inside for some time. Right?

Anyway, anyone know if the dairy restrictions relate to women whose cancers are ER- and PR- ??

(& congrats on those 34 pool lenghts, Tina!! I'm impressed!!!)

Tethys41

lindaprocopio said:

What about cancers that are ER- and PR- ??
I worked in a health club teaching aerobics and weight lifting and have been an organic gardener eating a high fiber diet my whole adult life; I was never bigger than a size 4 before I had cancer. (Now I'm a flabby size 8.) And, as it turns out, tissue assays show that my cancer is estrogen-receptive NEGATIVE and progesterone receptive NEGATIVE. In a case like mine, is there any advantage in avoiding foods associated with hormones? (My gynecologic oncologist has actually prescribed a hormone creme for me to use vaginally since he says it can do me no harm and can do wonders in maintaining my elasticity and sex life.)

& are you SURE about that 48 hours for chemo activity? I've had my CA125 drop weeks after a post chemo lab, and my oncologist said that the chemo continues working for weeks in there. The fact that your nadir is often 10 to 15 days after a treatment must mean that the chemo is still beating you (& your cancer) up inside for some time. Right?

Anyway, anyone know if the dairy restrictions relate to women whose cancers are ER- and PR- ??

(& congrats on those 34 pool lenghts, Tina!! I'm impressed!!!)

Quoting my Naturopath
I'm no scientist or doctor, but my naturopath was very specific that the chemo has done it's job in the 24 to 48 hours after infusion. I don't doubt, however, that the effects of the job it has done may show up gradually over time, instead of instantly. I have also worked with doctors at the Oasis of Hope hospital in Mexico. They recommend a boat load of supplements, and do not indicate that they will interfere with chemo. I know Mexico sounds scary, but those doctors are way ahead of our time.

My natuopath strongly recommends no hormones, or hormone-like substances, regardless of the receptivity, or lack thereof, of the tumor. She has been to conferences about this stuff, and evidently the receptivity of a tumor or cancer cells is dynamic, and one that is not receptive can become receptive over time. Yes, my oncologist recommended I go on Estrodial, since my tumor was not receptive, but my naturopath yanked me off of it as soon as I started seeing her.

The only exception to using bioidentical hormones is if you are on a strict monitoring program of your hormones, similar to the protocol Suzanne Sommers follows. It requires periodic blood tests to monitor you hormone levels. I'm currently experiencing some bone loss, which my naturopath says is still a side effect of chemo. But if it doesn't rectify, I may opt for the Suzanne Sommers approach.

My naturopath works with a number of cancer survivors and says she cringes when someone is put onto hormones of any type to address vaginal dryness or atrophy. I don't know the specifics, but she says she can treat those symptoms with Chinese herbs that pose not risk of aggravating cancer.

As far as dairy the contains hormones, I avoid anything that is not organic and, if it's animal, grass-fed and grass-finished. These animals are generally hormone and anitbiotic-free also. The other issue with artificially fed animals and their products is that the Omega Fatty Acids are not in the proper ratio, being heavy on the Omega 6s. As a result, consumption of these products contributes to inflammation which promotes cancer.