follow up chemo

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jjaj133
jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
Good Morning, I have a question.
Since my visit with the surgeon I have been wondering about his saying I will probably not need chemo. (If no other cancer is found).
He said there is no scientific evidence that it prevents a recurrence. Now, I am not a big fan of chemo. However, I guess i have it in my head that it would help get rid of any wandering cancer cells. Logically, I had a recurrance once with no followup chemo, and once without. I am going to talk to the oncologist, but I was wondering what you guys thought.
Thanks,Judy

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  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
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    Judy -

    Re:
    "Surgeon says: "there is no scientific evidence that it (chemo) prevents a recurrence".
    I was wondering what you guys thought."


    I think you found the very rare, and difficult to find, honest physician.

    Best wishes!

    John
  • Sundanceh
    Sundanceh Member Posts: 4,392 Member
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    Judy
    I wrote a post not too long ago titled, "The Chemo Wars - What's the Real story?"

    During one of my meetings with my oncologist, we discussed a couple of points about this very same, sobering topic.

    It's probably back 5+ pages now......or you can go to Search and type in Sundanceh and it should bring up a list of posts I've opened...you would see it from there.

    It might have some information that would be useful and addresses your question on whether to do chemo when there are no detectable cancer cells.

    The best!

    -Craig
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
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    Sundanceh said:

    Judy
    I wrote a post not too long ago titled, "The Chemo Wars - What's the Real story?"

    During one of my meetings with my oncologist, we discussed a couple of points about this very same, sobering topic.

    It's probably back 5+ pages now......or you can go to Search and type in Sundanceh and it should bring up a list of posts I've opened...you would see it from there.

    It might have some information that would be useful and addresses your question on whether to do chemo when there are no detectable cancer cells.

    The best!

    -Craig

    Link


    Link: "The Chemo Wars - What's the Real story?"

    Thanks Craig.

    Wishing you good health,

    John
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
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    My opinion
    I would most likely do the follow up chemo. It makes perfect sense to me.
    Did you mean you had a recurrence once with follow up chemo and once without having the follow up chemo? It looks like you wrote that both times you did not do follow up chemo.

    "He said there is no scientific evidence that it prevents a recurrence."
    Is there any scientific evidence that it doesn't prevent a recurrence?
    -phil
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
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    John23 said:

    Judy -

    Re:
    "Surgeon says: "there is no scientific evidence that it (chemo) prevents a recurrence".
    I was wondering what you guys thought."


    I think you found the very rare, and difficult to find, honest physician.

    Best wishes!

    John

    Thanks John, I appreciate
    Thanks John, I appreciate you good wishes.
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
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    Sundanceh said:

    Judy
    I wrote a post not too long ago titled, "The Chemo Wars - What's the Real story?"

    During one of my meetings with my oncologist, we discussed a couple of points about this very same, sobering topic.

    It's probably back 5+ pages now......or you can go to Search and type in Sundanceh and it should bring up a list of posts I've opened...you would see it from there.

    It might have some information that would be useful and addresses your question on whether to do chemo when there are no detectable cancer cells.

    The best!

    -Craig

    Thank you Craig, I will
    Thank you Craig, I will definetly read that post. The best to you also,
    Judy
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
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    Sundanceh said:

    Judy
    I wrote a post not too long ago titled, "The Chemo Wars - What's the Real story?"

    During one of my meetings with my oncologist, we discussed a couple of points about this very same, sobering topic.

    It's probably back 5+ pages now......or you can go to Search and type in Sundanceh and it should bring up a list of posts I've opened...you would see it from there.

    It might have some information that would be useful and addresses your question on whether to do chemo when there are no detectable cancer cells.

    The best!

    -Craig

    Thank you Craig, I will
    Thank you Craig, I will definetly read that post. The best to you also,
    Judy
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
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    PhillieG said:

    My opinion
    I would most likely do the follow up chemo. It makes perfect sense to me.
    Did you mean you had a recurrence once with follow up chemo and once without having the follow up chemo? It looks like you wrote that both times you did not do follow up chemo.

    "He said there is no scientific evidence that it prevents a recurrence."
    Is there any scientific evidence that it doesn't prevent a recurrence?
    -phil

    Hi Phil. Yes after the
    Hi Phil. Yes after the original colon surgery, my dr. said he got it all, "why would i put you through that.?" Five yrs later its in the liver, then i have 6 months of chemo. Ending feb. 2010. Well it's back in the liver. I am going to to talk to an onc. but I guess its is a crap shoot anyway.
    Thanks for responding, I do believe you all have more sense than the drs.!
    Best Wishes,
    Judy
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
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    Sundanceh said:

    Judy
    I wrote a post not too long ago titled, "The Chemo Wars - What's the Real story?"

    During one of my meetings with my oncologist, we discussed a couple of points about this very same, sobering topic.

    It's probably back 5+ pages now......or you can go to Search and type in Sundanceh and it should bring up a list of posts I've opened...you would see it from there.

    It might have some information that would be useful and addresses your question on whether to do chemo when there are no detectable cancer cells.

    The best!

    -Craig

    Cancer wars
    Wow, thank you for sharing/writing that. It will really help with my decision. Mainly because it makes sense.
    I love reading your posts. I just wish they could be about happier things.
    All good things to you,
    Judy
  • Unknown
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    jjaj133 said:

    Hi Phil. Yes after the
    Hi Phil. Yes after the original colon surgery, my dr. said he got it all, "why would i put you through that.?" Five yrs later its in the liver, then i have 6 months of chemo. Ending feb. 2010. Well it's back in the liver. I am going to to talk to an onc. but I guess its is a crap shoot anyway.
    Thanks for responding, I do believe you all have more sense than the drs.!
    Best Wishes,
    Judy

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
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    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    Thank you Gracie. When it
    Thank you Gracie. When it came back, I blamed the dr. for not giving me chemo. When it came back even when i had chemo, I thought there is no good answer, just educated guesses. and a lot of prayers.
    Judy
  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425 Member
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    jjaj133 said:

    Thank you Gracie. When it
    Thank you Gracie. When it came back, I blamed the dr. for not giving me chemo. When it came back even when i had chemo, I thought there is no good answer, just educated guesses. and a lot of prayers.
    Judy

    Just to let you know my
    Just to let you know my surgeons opinion is that chemo. will keep the cancer "at bay" (his words) Maybe since you went 5 years before you had a reoccurence the first time they are thinking you will have the same results again, if they think they can get it with surgery. Hopefully you will have many many years with no activity, if it does even show up again. You would think/hope/pray that after five years you would not have to deal with it all over again!! Not an easy decision to make. All the best Leena
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
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    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    Chemo
    I did see a report suggesting that chemo can be more effective if given before surgery along with a ton of stats with no clear answers. That was how I was treated. My first onc wanted to operate first, then chemo while my onc at Sloan saw no reason for that (plus my first onc didn't realize I had tumors on my hepatic artery - or maybe he did. He was a dope) so I did chemo first. Also, I had a HAI pump installed which gave chemo directly to my liver after my surgery. Those could have been factors for my situation. Who knows, it's only 6 1/2 years after my surgery so anything can happen. My plan was for chemo, surgery, and pump with chemo. My oncologist has had great success with that protocol. Unfortunately there is no one size fits all with cancer treatments.
    Be comfortable with your decision and go for it!
    -phil
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
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    PhillieG said:

    Chemo
    I did see a report suggesting that chemo can be more effective if given before surgery along with a ton of stats with no clear answers. That was how I was treated. My first onc wanted to operate first, then chemo while my onc at Sloan saw no reason for that (plus my first onc didn't realize I had tumors on my hepatic artery - or maybe he did. He was a dope) so I did chemo first. Also, I had a HAI pump installed which gave chemo directly to my liver after my surgery. Those could have been factors for my situation. Who knows, it's only 6 1/2 years after my surgery so anything can happen. My plan was for chemo, surgery, and pump with chemo. My oncologist has had great success with that protocol. Unfortunately there is no one size fits all with cancer treatments.
    Be comfortable with your decision and go for it!
    -phil

    Thanks, Leena and Phil, i

    Thanks, Leena and Phil, i will let you know after i talk to the onc. It will be awhile. Surgery is the 24th. so i guess it depends on if they find more, while in there. So far they always have. BUT, right now, i am leaning toward no chemo.
    Interesting way to spend life, isn't it?
    Judy
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
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    jjaj133 said:

    Thank you Gracie. When it
    Thank you Gracie. When it came back, I blamed the dr. for not giving me chemo. When it came back even when i had chemo, I thought there is no good answer, just educated guesses. and a lot of prayers.
    Judy

    Judy -

    As you've realized from experience, we never manage to resolve
    our anxiety when it concerns cancer.

    Health care has become a fear-driven industry worldwide; we're
    not the only nation suffering from health concerns, and where there's
    fear, there's someone there to capitalize on it.

    I would imagine that the toughest decision for any physician, is to
    advise against taking a prophylactic medication, and especially so
    if it concerns the battle with cancer. But your physician is making
    that tough decision based on his knowledge, not on emotions
    and fears.

    Chemotherapy was never intended to work as a preventative
    medicine. It's use was to shrink/kill tumors and large clusters of
    cancer cells; it's just not very effective on single cancer cells.

    Since it usually takes between 1.5 and 2 years for a cancer cell
    to get large enough to be identified, attempting to use harsh, toxic
    chemicals to remove what can't be positively identified, will poison
    more good cells than bad cells. And in reality, some of that damage
    can be permanent, so the "good" has to be weighed against the "bad".

    The fear of "not doing" chemo is the driving force of the industry,
    and most of us with cancer are too, too fearful, allowing that fear
    to drive us to make poor decisions.

    Try not to allow fear to drive your decisions; Have trust in your
    own survival instincts and intuition.

    Using chemotherapy should be taken as seriously as major surgery,
    it's just as invasive and carries as many hazards.


    Be well!

    John
  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425 Member
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    jjaj133 said:

    Thanks, Leena and Phil, i

    Thanks, Leena and Phil, i will let you know after i talk to the onc. It will be awhile. Surgery is the 24th. so i guess it depends on if they find more, while in there. So far they always have. BUT, right now, i am leaning toward no chemo.
    Interesting way to spend life, isn't it?
    Judy

    Interesting wouldn't be the
    Interesting wouldn't be the word I would use......it straight up sucks!!! I don't have any tumors in my lungs or liver, Thank the Lord, and I pray I never do. My onc. seems to focus on the microscopic, what he can't see. I don't know if chemo. will destroy it, I sure hope it does. Seems Phil has done well. John's story is amazing, a result we would all love to achieve!!!
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
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    jjaj133 said:

    Thanks, Leena and Phil, i

    Thanks, Leena and Phil, i will let you know after i talk to the onc. It will be awhile. Surgery is the 24th. so i guess it depends on if they find more, while in there. So far they always have. BUT, right now, i am leaning toward no chemo.
    Interesting way to spend life, isn't it?
    Judy

    Judy
    Hopefully everyone will be surprised and see nothing out of the ordinary.
    It does seem to be one "new normal" after another and decision after decision.
    It's never dull, that's for sure.
    I hope all goes well
    -phil
  • Lifeisajourney
    Lifeisajourney Member Posts: 216
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    jjaj133 said:

    Thanks, Leena and Phil, i

    Thanks, Leena and Phil, i will let you know after i talk to the onc. It will be awhile. Surgery is the 24th. so i guess it depends on if they find more, while in there. So far they always have. BUT, right now, i am leaning toward no chemo.
    Interesting way to spend life, isn't it?
    Judy

    I am somewhat in your position
    dx 1208/ 3nodes positive/7 folfox, toxic reaction, ned till 2/11, liver mets. Just saw surgeon 5/3 who believes he could do surgery based on 4/11 scans, but wanted a new c scan which was done 5/3. Waiting for results as we speak. BUT my onc said no chemo before surgery, doesn't want to weaken me for surgery since I react so badly. I don't think he intends to rush into chemo after either if that is done. He said as an onc I even say no chemo yet. This will all have to be rehased when I find out results of scan, but it looks like your situation somewhat. And since I did have a reocurrance anyway, maybe we should wait till another reoccurance if it didn't stop first one. Will consider alternatives if no chemo after or second opinion.....Just my input on my story.....Interested in your story and will watch for outcome....Good luck. Pat
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
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    I am somewhat in your position
    dx 1208/ 3nodes positive/7 folfox, toxic reaction, ned till 2/11, liver mets. Just saw surgeon 5/3 who believes he could do surgery based on 4/11 scans, but wanted a new c scan which was done 5/3. Waiting for results as we speak. BUT my onc said no chemo before surgery, doesn't want to weaken me for surgery since I react so badly. I don't think he intends to rush into chemo after either if that is done. He said as an onc I even say no chemo yet. This will all have to be rehased when I find out results of scan, but it looks like your situation somewhat. And since I did have a reocurrance anyway, maybe we should wait till another reoccurance if it didn't stop first one. Will consider alternatives if no chemo after or second opinion.....Just my input on my story.....Interested in your story and will watch for outcome....Good luck. Pat

    Thanks, everyone! Pat, i
    Thanks, everyone! Pat, i will certainly be interested in your story as well. Lets hope we both have a great one to tell.
    Judy
  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
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    post tx follow ups
    When my wife finishes her surgery and chemo, she will continue with non-toxic adjuvants including vitamin D3 (was greatly deficient), cimetidine (most stage III and IV's are/were CA19-9 + CSLEX positive), PSK (bone marrow - WBC stimulator) and a lot of supplements with some documentation. We are trying to get biomarker stains for CSLEX (to better judge cimetidine's long term potential) and COX2 (aspirin/Celecoxib?) run on her pathology samples.

    An ounce or two of prevention a day, doesn't have to cost a fortune with the internet.